Non-parent seeks parenting advice.
March 21, 2011 12:42 PM Subscribe
How do I keep my roommate and best friend from surrendering custody of her son to her ex-husband - an unemployed former crack user who was recently released from jail and is living with his mother about four hours away?
My roommate (and closest friend) and I are both in our mid-to-late 20’s. She had a son when she was 20 who lives with us full time. The son, who we’ll call Steven, has proven to be a handful of late.
‘Emily’ and I have lived together for almost six months. I moved in fully expecting to become an important role in Steven’s life. Having been raised by a single mom myself, and splitting my time between her and an alcoholic father, I feel a great deal of affinity for the little guy. I was expecting to make dinners together as a ‘family’, take him on outings, help with homework etc – basically, I am ready and willing to assume the role of some sort of Auntie that is around to help Emily with his upbringing while enjoying Steven’s company.
The reality, however, has been very different. Since moving in together we have not shared one meal with Steven; he takes his meals in another part of the house in front of the tv while Emily and I often eat together. There is a meltdown most evenings around bedtime, sometimes resulting in time-outs, and sometimes resulting in bedtime being delayed in order to accommodate his requests for more snacks, television/Wii time etc. Steven drags his feet in the mornings and when Emily tries to hurry him he will throw a tantrum and delay the process further. He often says very hurtful things to Emily to the effect of “I hate you, I wish I lived with my dad, you don’t even like me, you’re always mad at me” etc. He is having behavioural difficulties at school due in part to a particular friend group; in an effort to get Steven to distance himself from these two particular boys Emily has transferred him to a different day care, but he remains at the same school. Steven complains bitterly about this new day care and Emily waffles over whether she’s made the right decision in transferring him away from his so-called friends. In my (uneducated) opinion, Steven shows some signs of depression: withdrawal, irritability, anxiety, and inexplicably extreme emotions. Emily agrees and has taken him to see his pediatrician, who sat with him for a few minutes and gave him a blood test. Emily doesn’t think that he would benefit from therapy as he apparently won’t open up about his feelings to anyone but her.
Emily has a very supportive family and two parents that help in Steven’s care. Steven often spends at least one night per week with his grandparents so that Emily can have an evening to herself. Lately, as his behaviour has stayed consistently challenging, Emily’s parents have been taking Steven more often to ‘give her a break’. This, combined with the one weekend out of three that he spends with his father, means that sometimes it seems that Steven isn’t around very often.
When he gets back from visiting his father, Steven’s behaviour is close to insufferable. Everything becomes a fight and he whines constantly. His father doesn’t seem to uphold any kind of consistency between Steven’s two houses: from what Steven tells us he never makes him do homework, lets him stay up all night and then sleep in his bed with him, and lets him eat junk food and play video games all day. Therefore he comes back to our household as a cranky little boy that’s resistant to the structure Emily tries to provide for him. After railing against this structure with his tantrums and rude behaviour, eventually it begins to weaken and Emily becomes simultaneously more relaxed in her parenting and convinced that she and Steven would both benefit if she gave in to them and let Steven live with his dad.
As previously mentioned, Steven’s dad is a less than ideal parenting figure. To his credit, he certainly cares for Steven and I don’t doubt his love for his little boy, and Emily doesn’t think he has used since being released from jail a few years ago. After separating from his father, Emily went on to finish university and attain a degree in the social sciences. She now works in a counseling capacity with marginalized people and has a stable career. I admit that I don’t know much about Steven’s father’s family except that the dad still lives with his mom and that she is apparently a world-class enabler. Steven’s father has never paid any form of child support and they do not have a formal child custody arrangement in place. For many years Emily was Steven’s sole caregiver as Steven was either incarcerated or using so heavily that he couldn’t be relied upon to show up for visitations, supervise the child adequately etc.
Emily is certainly feeling as though she has done everything in her capacity to control her child’s behaviour. She has taken parenting classes, has sought counseling etc. in addition to the above-mentioned measures. She says that she feels that she sacrificed a lot of her youth to have Steven and that she feels she has been waiting for his whole life for his behaviour to improve. From my perspective, however, her and I had somewhat similar youths – I graduated high school, went right to university, worked my tail off to graduate in four years (meaning no social life, working part time to afford my staggering bills, never seeing my friends and eating from the food bank) – except that she had Steven to care for. As I see it, they were similar experiences in the sense that while she was able to live comfortably with her family while completing school and focusing on her son, we both made decisions that compromised our lifestyle and flexibility, but did so with an eye out for the greater good. As previously mentioned, when moving in with Emily I expected to, and willingly chose, the company of the boy over going out to the pub with my friends. It doesn’t feel like a sacrifice for me to do so.
The problem is that the friction between her and her son has begun to spill over into my relationship with Emily. I have a hard time standing by watching Steven manipulate Emily into lazy parenting, and I feel that his poor behaviour is sometimes pretty garden variety eight year old boy stuff. There are some behaviours that I wouldn’t tolerate, but I don’t feel comfortable disciplining Steven and Emily doesn’t seem to mind them. Steven is provided an allowance although he has zero responsibilities around the house, and throws meltdowns over seemingly minor issues such as brushing his teeth and personal hygiene which means these get neglected at the expense of his health.
I don’t know how to bring up these problems without sounding like the know-it-all younger, single, childless woman that knows how to parent her child better than she does. After all, I do need to live with these people and I have a great deal of love for them both. Tell me, Hive, how do I mitigate this situation sensitively and supportively for all parties involved? The last thing I want to do is alienate my best friend and her little boy.
My roommate (and closest friend) and I are both in our mid-to-late 20’s. She had a son when she was 20 who lives with us full time. The son, who we’ll call Steven, has proven to be a handful of late.
‘Emily’ and I have lived together for almost six months. I moved in fully expecting to become an important role in Steven’s life. Having been raised by a single mom myself, and splitting my time between her and an alcoholic father, I feel a great deal of affinity for the little guy. I was expecting to make dinners together as a ‘family’, take him on outings, help with homework etc – basically, I am ready and willing to assume the role of some sort of Auntie that is around to help Emily with his upbringing while enjoying Steven’s company.
The reality, however, has been very different. Since moving in together we have not shared one meal with Steven; he takes his meals in another part of the house in front of the tv while Emily and I often eat together. There is a meltdown most evenings around bedtime, sometimes resulting in time-outs, and sometimes resulting in bedtime being delayed in order to accommodate his requests for more snacks, television/Wii time etc. Steven drags his feet in the mornings and when Emily tries to hurry him he will throw a tantrum and delay the process further. He often says very hurtful things to Emily to the effect of “I hate you, I wish I lived with my dad, you don’t even like me, you’re always mad at me” etc. He is having behavioural difficulties at school due in part to a particular friend group; in an effort to get Steven to distance himself from these two particular boys Emily has transferred him to a different day care, but he remains at the same school. Steven complains bitterly about this new day care and Emily waffles over whether she’s made the right decision in transferring him away from his so-called friends. In my (uneducated) opinion, Steven shows some signs of depression: withdrawal, irritability, anxiety, and inexplicably extreme emotions. Emily agrees and has taken him to see his pediatrician, who sat with him for a few minutes and gave him a blood test. Emily doesn’t think that he would benefit from therapy as he apparently won’t open up about his feelings to anyone but her.
Emily has a very supportive family and two parents that help in Steven’s care. Steven often spends at least one night per week with his grandparents so that Emily can have an evening to herself. Lately, as his behaviour has stayed consistently challenging, Emily’s parents have been taking Steven more often to ‘give her a break’. This, combined with the one weekend out of three that he spends with his father, means that sometimes it seems that Steven isn’t around very often.
When he gets back from visiting his father, Steven’s behaviour is close to insufferable. Everything becomes a fight and he whines constantly. His father doesn’t seem to uphold any kind of consistency between Steven’s two houses: from what Steven tells us he never makes him do homework, lets him stay up all night and then sleep in his bed with him, and lets him eat junk food and play video games all day. Therefore he comes back to our household as a cranky little boy that’s resistant to the structure Emily tries to provide for him. After railing against this structure with his tantrums and rude behaviour, eventually it begins to weaken and Emily becomes simultaneously more relaxed in her parenting and convinced that she and Steven would both benefit if she gave in to them and let Steven live with his dad.
As previously mentioned, Steven’s dad is a less than ideal parenting figure. To his credit, he certainly cares for Steven and I don’t doubt his love for his little boy, and Emily doesn’t think he has used since being released from jail a few years ago. After separating from his father, Emily went on to finish university and attain a degree in the social sciences. She now works in a counseling capacity with marginalized people and has a stable career. I admit that I don’t know much about Steven’s father’s family except that the dad still lives with his mom and that she is apparently a world-class enabler. Steven’s father has never paid any form of child support and they do not have a formal child custody arrangement in place. For many years Emily was Steven’s sole caregiver as Steven was either incarcerated or using so heavily that he couldn’t be relied upon to show up for visitations, supervise the child adequately etc.
Emily is certainly feeling as though she has done everything in her capacity to control her child’s behaviour. She has taken parenting classes, has sought counseling etc. in addition to the above-mentioned measures. She says that she feels that she sacrificed a lot of her youth to have Steven and that she feels she has been waiting for his whole life for his behaviour to improve. From my perspective, however, her and I had somewhat similar youths – I graduated high school, went right to university, worked my tail off to graduate in four years (meaning no social life, working part time to afford my staggering bills, never seeing my friends and eating from the food bank) – except that she had Steven to care for. As I see it, they were similar experiences in the sense that while she was able to live comfortably with her family while completing school and focusing on her son, we both made decisions that compromised our lifestyle and flexibility, but did so with an eye out for the greater good. As previously mentioned, when moving in with Emily I expected to, and willingly chose, the company of the boy over going out to the pub with my friends. It doesn’t feel like a sacrifice for me to do so.
The problem is that the friction between her and her son has begun to spill over into my relationship with Emily. I have a hard time standing by watching Steven manipulate Emily into lazy parenting, and I feel that his poor behaviour is sometimes pretty garden variety eight year old boy stuff. There are some behaviours that I wouldn’t tolerate, but I don’t feel comfortable disciplining Steven and Emily doesn’t seem to mind them. Steven is provided an allowance although he has zero responsibilities around the house, and throws meltdowns over seemingly minor issues such as brushing his teeth and personal hygiene which means these get neglected at the expense of his health.
I don’t know how to bring up these problems without sounding like the know-it-all younger, single, childless woman that knows how to parent her child better than she does. After all, I do need to live with these people and I have a great deal of love for them both. Tell me, Hive, how do I mitigate this situation sensitively and supportively for all parties involved? The last thing I want to do is alienate my best friend and her little boy.
Are you in a relationship with emily?
posted by TheBones at 12:50 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by TheBones at 12:50 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: A sexual relationship? Not at all.
posted by owlparliament at 12:53 PM on March 21, 2011
posted by owlparliament at 12:53 PM on March 21, 2011
Have you and Emily ever talked about the role you want to play in Steven's life? Do you have any agreements about your being involved in his life in a quasi-parental way?
posted by ottereroticist at 12:56 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ottereroticist at 12:56 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Time to move out. Unless you think the child's well-being is immediately threatened, anything you try to do in the form of "stepping in" or advising Emily and so on means that you become the know-it-all, younger, single, childless woman who thinks she knows how to parent Emily's son better than she does.
posted by not that girl at 12:58 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by not that girl at 12:58 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Legally speaking, you can do approximately squat to prevent this from happening without getting social services involved, and even then you're far more likely to just cause everyone a lot of hassle than accomplish something positive.
Why?
Because you aren't this boy's mother, or even any kind of relative, and social services isn't going to recognize you as having any kind of interest in his future. That's just the way it is. If you started a proceeding, you could certainly try to present evidence that this boy living with his dad isn't in the boy's best interest, but there's a strong presumption that children belong with their parents, and if all three parties--mom, dad, and son--agree that he should live with dad... that's going to be a really hard presumption to overcome.
Good on you for taking an interest in this kid. Unfortunately, in the eyes of the state, you just don't have a dog in this race, and provided he has a roof over his head, food to eat, and is making it to school, there's not a lot you can do here.
posted by valkyryn at 1:00 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Why?
Because you aren't this boy's mother, or even any kind of relative, and social services isn't going to recognize you as having any kind of interest in his future. That's just the way it is. If you started a proceeding, you could certainly try to present evidence that this boy living with his dad isn't in the boy's best interest, but there's a strong presumption that children belong with their parents, and if all three parties--mom, dad, and son--agree that he should live with dad... that's going to be a really hard presumption to overcome.
Good on you for taking an interest in this kid. Unfortunately, in the eyes of the state, you just don't have a dog in this race, and provided he has a roof over his head, food to eat, and is making it to school, there's not a lot you can do here.
posted by valkyryn at 1:00 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm also of the formal opinion it's out of your hands, but there is the Supernanny, which deals with out-of-control kids and the parents who are giving up.
I don't know how you can get her to be receptive of the idea that there are resources out there for how to change this kid's behavior. But that is a tv show, maybe she'd be open to watching it.
posted by lizbunny at 1:21 PM on March 21, 2011
I don't know how you can get her to be receptive of the idea that there are resources out there for how to change this kid's behavior. But that is a tv show, maybe she'd be open to watching it.
posted by lizbunny at 1:21 PM on March 21, 2011
If Emily asks you for your advice, tell her that Steven needs consistency it at least one of his homes. He's desperate for it. As she's the only one who can provide it in her home, the consistency needs to start there and it needs to start now. He's learned that he can get his way by whining and throwing tantrums. He can unlearn that, too, but Emily is going to have to be really strong and really desirous of a change in Steven for it to work. It's easier for her to give in. It really is. She has to choose to do the hard work if she wants him to behave.
If she doesn't ask you for your advice? Then it's none of your business, unless it interferes with the way you live in your home. You can draw some lines, but only if those lines are clearly in defense of your personal space/things/comfort.
posted by cooker girl at 1:21 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
If she doesn't ask you for your advice? Then it's none of your business, unless it interferes with the way you live in your home. You can draw some lines, but only if those lines are clearly in defense of your personal space/things/comfort.
posted by cooker girl at 1:21 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why not offer to baby sit Steven so Emily can go out. Then, do something with him, not just sit at home. Start to develop a relationship with him ex his mom but without telling his mom what to do.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:22 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:22 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I would move out. I don't really see any benefit in living with a child whose poor behavior you have to deal with, yet you have no power to influence. You aren't his parent, and unless Emily asks you to step into that type of role, he's basically like a terrible third roommate that you can't even try to reason with. That sounds harsh to say about a child, but it's up to Emily to take the necessary steps to parent Steven effectively, and if she doesn't see asking for your help as one of them, you have no say in his life.
posted by elpea at 1:24 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by elpea at 1:24 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Nthing the "it isn't your battle" advice. It sounds like Emily needs you as a friend more than she needs one more person telling her what to do with her son. From your description, I would imagine she's getting it from school counselors, teachers, day cay providers -- the whole shebang.
I understand that's it's crazymaking though, to have to witness this every day and not say anything. And a lot of your observations seem really smart and sensitive. If you can "vent" from time to time with a discreet third-party friend, it might defuse your aggravation and help to remind you that it's really out of your hands.
posted by pantarei70 at 1:25 PM on March 21, 2011
I understand that's it's crazymaking though, to have to witness this every day and not say anything. And a lot of your observations seem really smart and sensitive. If you can "vent" from time to time with a discreet third-party friend, it might defuse your aggravation and help to remind you that it's really out of your hands.
posted by pantarei70 at 1:25 PM on March 21, 2011
It sounds like you need to be honest with your friend. You might want to apologize beforehand and say you don't mean to come across like the 'know-it-all, younger, single, childless woman who thinks she knows how to parent.' Maybe you should share with her your vision of what you expected when you agreed to move in. Most importantly, it sounds like you should acknowledge that she seems to be struggling and ask if there is anything you can do to help.
There seems to be a laundry list of things she needs to do. Her parenting classes don't seem to have been very effective. Her son needs firmness and consistency, why is he watching tv during dinner, why is there an allowance and no responsibility, why does he have a wii after throwing a fit - because she allows it. It sounds like she and her son need to do family counseling together. Eight year olds should not be throwing tantrums. (And saying her son will only talk to her sounds like crap.) She also needs to talk with her son's father about what happens at his place and perhaps it's time to limit her son's time there if the current behavior continues.
You can't fix someone else's life. You can see if she wants your help but if she doesn't, I would look for a new place when your lease is up.
posted by shoesietart at 1:26 PM on March 21, 2011
There seems to be a laundry list of things she needs to do. Her parenting classes don't seem to have been very effective. Her son needs firmness and consistency, why is he watching tv during dinner, why is there an allowance and no responsibility, why does he have a wii after throwing a fit - because she allows it. It sounds like she and her son need to do family counseling together. Eight year olds should not be throwing tantrums. (And saying her son will only talk to her sounds like crap.) She also needs to talk with her son's father about what happens at his place and perhaps it's time to limit her son's time there if the current behavior continues.
You can't fix someone else's life. You can see if she wants your help but if she doesn't, I would look for a new place when your lease is up.
posted by shoesietart at 1:26 PM on March 21, 2011
Move out. Unless the child is proven to be endagered you are powerless. Sorry you need to watch this trainwreck of humanity.
posted by WeekendJen at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by WeekendJen at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
watching Steven manipulate Emily into lazy parenting
...you really think that your friend's abysmal parenting is something her child 'manipulated'...?
This is weird stuff. I don't understand "I moved in fully expecting to become an important role in Steven’s life" -- what sort of things were spelled out here? You mention "I don’t feel comfortable disciplining Steven" which makes me think that the idea that you would have an "important role" was not something you were very explicitly invited to have. Not really appropriate to invite yourself into such a position, rather odd if you were invited but somehow left in a position where you are uncomfortable offering guidance to this young man. (How old is Steven?)
Mom "tries to provide structure" but the boy is increasingly dumped on Grandma and Grandpa. Not good. I mean, wonderful that the grandparents are available, and under different circumstances I would not use the term "dumped on," but it sounds like Emily is looking to ditch responsibility, not give her kid a fun visit. Emily sounds like a dreadful parent, but you don't seem to -- how to say this? -- have any useful insights or experience to offer.
You admit that Steven's father is a largely unknown entity, and it is not reasonable to rely on a small child's reports there; that stuff about the video games and junk food could be the classic "But everybody else in my class gets to..." con. Yet the start of the question is about how to prevent Dad from having more parenting time. Why?
"I am ready and willing to assume the role of some sort of Auntie" is nice but it doesn't sound like that is appropriate or useful here. It sounds like you have a nice image of taking responsibility and saving this kid, but you are so detached from him that you have failed to even tell us his age. You make excuses for Mom, want to keep him from Dad even though he has apparently been clean for years, and even though you're willing to not go to the pub etcetera Steven's babysitting is done by Grandma and Grandpa rather than you. You are on the periphery of this, you are not related, you haven't a romantic involvement with Mom; there's no meaningful tie to the kid here, "Auntie" is something that would have to be built up over many years -- you can't get this by co-signing a lease.
I think you want to look at moving out, and later on consider mentoring under the auspices of Big Sisters or a similar organisation. I have a friend who does volunteer tutoring for 'at risk' children, under the auspices of the Children's Aid Society here; he enjoys it quite a bit and it sounds like the kids get a fair bit out of it -- you might want to look into that sort of work.
posted by kmennie at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2011 [14 favorites]
...you really think that your friend's abysmal parenting is something her child 'manipulated'...?
This is weird stuff. I don't understand "I moved in fully expecting to become an important role in Steven’s life" -- what sort of things were spelled out here? You mention "I don’t feel comfortable disciplining Steven" which makes me think that the idea that you would have an "important role" was not something you were very explicitly invited to have. Not really appropriate to invite yourself into such a position, rather odd if you were invited but somehow left in a position where you are uncomfortable offering guidance to this young man. (How old is Steven?)
Mom "tries to provide structure" but the boy is increasingly dumped on Grandma and Grandpa. Not good. I mean, wonderful that the grandparents are available, and under different circumstances I would not use the term "dumped on," but it sounds like Emily is looking to ditch responsibility, not give her kid a fun visit. Emily sounds like a dreadful parent, but you don't seem to -- how to say this? -- have any useful insights or experience to offer.
You admit that Steven's father is a largely unknown entity, and it is not reasonable to rely on a small child's reports there; that stuff about the video games and junk food could be the classic "But everybody else in my class gets to..." con. Yet the start of the question is about how to prevent Dad from having more parenting time. Why?
"I am ready and willing to assume the role of some sort of Auntie" is nice but it doesn't sound like that is appropriate or useful here. It sounds like you have a nice image of taking responsibility and saving this kid, but you are so detached from him that you have failed to even tell us his age. You make excuses for Mom, want to keep him from Dad even though he has apparently been clean for years, and even though you're willing to not go to the pub etcetera Steven's babysitting is done by Grandma and Grandpa rather than you. You are on the periphery of this, you are not related, you haven't a romantic involvement with Mom; there's no meaningful tie to the kid here, "Auntie" is something that would have to be built up over many years -- you can't get this by co-signing a lease.
I think you want to look at moving out, and later on consider mentoring under the auspices of Big Sisters or a similar organisation. I have a friend who does volunteer tutoring for 'at risk' children, under the auspices of the Children's Aid Society here; he enjoys it quite a bit and it sounds like the kids get a fair bit out of it -- you might want to look into that sort of work.
posted by kmennie at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2011 [14 favorites]
I have to second kmennie. She may be your roommate and friend, but Emily sounds like an awfully unresponsible parent to me.
posted by WeekendJen at 1:30 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 1:30 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
You can't do anything and frankly Emily can't either. As long as the father's home is there to be a place where the kid can be lazy and undisciplined, Emily will always be The Heavy. It's a terrible position to be in as a parent.
Best bet is to back off, support Emily and be there for her, and let the chips fall where they may. Once father has Steven there all the time, he might not be so indulgent and Steven's attitude may shift markedly.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:30 PM on March 21, 2011
Best bet is to back off, support Emily and be there for her, and let the chips fall where they may. Once father has Steven there all the time, he might not be so indulgent and Steven's attitude may shift markedly.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:30 PM on March 21, 2011
She says that she feels that she sacrificed a lot of her youth to have Steven and that she feels she has been waiting for his whole life for his behaviour to improve.
You say he's eight? "Waiting his whole life for his behavior to improve" is a worrisome position for a parent to take on such a little boy. Parenting classes nothwithstanding, it's not his responsibility to know not eat dinner alone in his room. She didn't "sacrifice her youth" -- she chose to be a parent. And I don't mean to snipe, or diminish your good-hearted hopes for the relationship and your perspective, but this is kind of not your business.
posted by thinkpiece at 1:32 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You say he's eight? "Waiting his whole life for his behavior to improve" is a worrisome position for a parent to take on such a little boy. Parenting classes nothwithstanding, it's not his responsibility to know not eat dinner alone in his room. She didn't "sacrifice her youth" -- she chose to be a parent. And I don't mean to snipe, or diminish your good-hearted hopes for the relationship and your perspective, but this is kind of not your business.
posted by thinkpiece at 1:32 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Her house, her child, her rules. You have no *right* to interfere, regardless of your good intentions. However, if Emily asks for your help, you can certainly give her suggestions. Like the two of you sitting down and deciding on the HOUSE rules, and then BOTH enforcing them. Steven definitely needs structure.
Also, it's really normal for kids to have adjustment issues when they are going from one parent's household to another. However, Steven may well be playing his Mom when he tells her all the things he is allowed to do at Dad's house that Mom won't let him get away with at home. Emily really needs to communicate with his Dad so that there is stability and shared responsibilities between both homes. It is not fair or good for anyone involved for one parent to have to play the 'bad guy' while the other is the 'fun parent'. So, again, she and Dad should set up house rules and stick to them.
I understand you feel that you Emily made similar sacrifices. Believe me, though, she doesn't share this attitude with you. Having to take care of yourself, although tough, means you have to take responsibility for an adult who understands the consequences of her actions. Having to take care of a child means having a helpless individual responsible to you for everything, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and even when you get a 'break' thanks to parents or helpful siblings, you still have those worries and responsibilities in the back of your head. You worry you are not being the best parent for your kid, you worry that you child resents the necessary restrictions you put on him, you worry that you are being too lenient or not tough enough...the list goes on and on.
This may be one reason why Steven eats separately from you: Emily wants time with you, where she can just talk and share with another adult. That's understandable. But mealtimes are the best time (backed up by research) for parents to connect with their kids, so either move out there with Steven or have him sit at the table with you until he's done eating, and engage him in conversation. Right now, he only shares with Mom because he feels safe with Mom. If you and Mom are a united front, both caring for him and also expecting him to do his part around the house, he will begin to open up to you, as well.
Good luck!
posted by misha at 1:35 PM on March 21, 2011
Also, it's really normal for kids to have adjustment issues when they are going from one parent's household to another. However, Steven may well be playing his Mom when he tells her all the things he is allowed to do at Dad's house that Mom won't let him get away with at home. Emily really needs to communicate with his Dad so that there is stability and shared responsibilities between both homes. It is not fair or good for anyone involved for one parent to have to play the 'bad guy' while the other is the 'fun parent'. So, again, she and Dad should set up house rules and stick to them.
I understand you feel that you Emily made similar sacrifices. Believe me, though, she doesn't share this attitude with you. Having to take care of yourself, although tough, means you have to take responsibility for an adult who understands the consequences of her actions. Having to take care of a child means having a helpless individual responsible to you for everything, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and even when you get a 'break' thanks to parents or helpful siblings, you still have those worries and responsibilities in the back of your head. You worry you are not being the best parent for your kid, you worry that you child resents the necessary restrictions you put on him, you worry that you are being too lenient or not tough enough...the list goes on and on.
This may be one reason why Steven eats separately from you: Emily wants time with you, where she can just talk and share with another adult. That's understandable. But mealtimes are the best time (backed up by research) for parents to connect with their kids, so either move out there with Steven or have him sit at the table with you until he's done eating, and engage him in conversation. Right now, he only shares with Mom because he feels safe with Mom. If you and Mom are a united front, both caring for him and also expecting him to do his part around the house, he will begin to open up to you, as well.
Good luck!
posted by misha at 1:35 PM on March 21, 2011
("eight year old boy" was a bit buried, oops -- forgive me for the oversight there)
posted by kmennie at 1:48 PM on March 21, 2011
posted by kmennie at 1:48 PM on March 21, 2011
Response by poster: @misha - of course you're right, I didn't mean to minimize it to the point of comparing my (somewhat successful) efforts to take care of myself versus that of having a child to worry about for the rest of your existence. I just meant to say that as far as 'youth' is concerned she seems to have some fantasies involves backpacking around Europe and doing kegstands, neither of which I had the time, money or desire to do either. I think you're really on to something with "Emily wants time with you, where she can just talk and share with another adult". Any words of wisdom from other single moms and dads (or other caregivers) on how I can approach the idea of 'uniting the front' without saying 'I can tell you're struggling and I'm pretty sure I have all the answers' would be really appreciated.
As for Emily's parenting - I don't think it's dreadful, I think she feels that she's at the end of her rope. I openly admit that I don't have too much experience in the childrearing department, but I don't think lollygagging in the morning or not wanting to brush your teeth is necessarily outside the realm of 'normal' child behaviour, and that a good majority of his meltdowns are due to the fact that the roles, routines, and punishments are not very well defined. Perhaps that's what's making it more difficult for me when she comes to me feeling so exasperated, because the only personal advice I really have to offer is from dog-training books (which, to be honest, don't seem to differ that much from early-childhood parenting stuff I've read lately either).
I also admit that my perspective may be somewhat skewed by the fact that Steven and I share remarkably similar parents and I feel like there were a few very distinct points in my upbringing where my mother could have given up on me for being a million times more poorly behaved than Steven ever is. So if you're wondering about the vested interest there could be something in there about not wanting to give up on someone that reminds me a lot of myself at his age. Ultimately though, I don't think it's exactly bizzaro behaviour to want a kid that's a daily fixture in my life to be healthier and happier.
posted by owlparliament at 2:02 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
As for Emily's parenting - I don't think it's dreadful, I think she feels that she's at the end of her rope. I openly admit that I don't have too much experience in the childrearing department, but I don't think lollygagging in the morning or not wanting to brush your teeth is necessarily outside the realm of 'normal' child behaviour, and that a good majority of his meltdowns are due to the fact that the roles, routines, and punishments are not very well defined. Perhaps that's what's making it more difficult for me when she comes to me feeling so exasperated, because the only personal advice I really have to offer is from dog-training books (which, to be honest, don't seem to differ that much from early-childhood parenting stuff I've read lately either).
I also admit that my perspective may be somewhat skewed by the fact that Steven and I share remarkably similar parents and I feel like there were a few very distinct points in my upbringing where my mother could have given up on me for being a million times more poorly behaved than Steven ever is. So if you're wondering about the vested interest there could be something in there about not wanting to give up on someone that reminds me a lot of myself at his age. Ultimately though, I don't think it's exactly bizzaro behaviour to want a kid that's a daily fixture in my life to be healthier and happier.
posted by owlparliament at 2:02 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
What a wretched scenario. Are the grandparents competent? Would they take the child? I'd consider reporting addicted Dad to Child Protective Services. They seldom remove a child from family, but can be a watchful eye to keep a child safe, as well as offering parenting support.
I believe the best support you can give the child is to encourage the mother and father to take parenting classes, and get as much help as possible, and to encourage the grandparents to help as much as possible, and to give her emotional support, and to otherwise not \judge her parenting. except for this - Praise Emily for any bit of good parenting. Her son loves her and would be so sad if she were out of his life.
posted by theora55 at 3:20 PM on March 21, 2011
I believe the best support you can give the child is to encourage the mother and father to take parenting classes, and get as much help as possible, and to encourage the grandparents to help as much as possible, and to give her emotional support, and to otherwise not \judge her parenting. except for this - Praise Emily for any bit of good parenting. Her son loves her and would be so sad if she were out of his life.
posted by theora55 at 3:20 PM on March 21, 2011
This is way more about you then her. You call her your best friend but seem surprised that after a few months of living together it is not the idealised version of a family you had hoped. Before you moved in did you spend much time with her and her son? If so, how did you miss noticing his behaviour and her parenting style?
As a parent, I would file parenting advice from a non-parent, especially a person in her twenties as self-important twaddle. Sorry, but you simply do not have the life experience to criticise a person that has lived in the trenches for eight years because you didn't get to go to as many parties as you wanted while she dragged herself out of bed violently sick to tend to her also sick son on top of the responsibilities of adulthood and school. So, if you want to preserve the friendship, don't go there. I am sure you laboured hard over the question to be as fair as possible but your judgemental criticism leaps off the page and I am sure she feels it in real life too.
So, back to you, you should look into why you felt you should be a "white knight", rescuing the boy from his biological father who you label as a former crackhead recently released from jail, burying the fact that he has been out of jail for years, living in a stable housing situation and has amazingly kept himself clean for years too. Is focusing on Emily and her problems distracting you from problems in your own life, masking an absence (babies, career, partner) you can't fill at the moment? The best thing for your friendship would be to take a big step back, probably move out and accept your friend and her son for who they really are. You CAN'T unite the front because you are not part of the front at all.
posted by saucysault at 7:45 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
As a parent, I would file parenting advice from a non-parent, especially a person in her twenties as self-important twaddle. Sorry, but you simply do not have the life experience to criticise a person that has lived in the trenches for eight years because you didn't get to go to as many parties as you wanted while she dragged herself out of bed violently sick to tend to her also sick son on top of the responsibilities of adulthood and school. So, if you want to preserve the friendship, don't go there. I am sure you laboured hard over the question to be as fair as possible but your judgemental criticism leaps off the page and I am sure she feels it in real life too.
So, back to you, you should look into why you felt you should be a "white knight", rescuing the boy from his biological father who you label as a former crackhead recently released from jail, burying the fact that he has been out of jail for years, living in a stable housing situation and has amazingly kept himself clean for years too. Is focusing on Emily and her problems distracting you from problems in your own life, masking an absence (babies, career, partner) you can't fill at the moment? The best thing for your friendship would be to take a big step back, probably move out and accept your friend and her son for who they really are. You CAN'T unite the front because you are not part of the front at all.
posted by saucysault at 7:45 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I think you're yearning to be a great aunt to a great kid with whom you identify, but have been derailed by your surprise at finding yourself disappointed in Emily's parenting.
You say that she's gone to parenting classes and counseling, but what about suggesting a support group? There's a lot to be said from the ordinary shared experiences of people with a common issue -- it gives her "safe" venting room but also some perspective on relative levels of advantage.
Meanwhile, she's your closest friend and you're obviously invested in your familial relationship with her. I think that you can find a way to talk to her without sounding judgmental, it's just going to require work and honesty and a lot of restraint and maybe some research on your part.
If it were me, I'd probably point out that look, it seems like everyone is concerned about her mental and emotional exhaustion -- and there's gotta be an easier way to do this, and you really, really, really want to help her figure it out. If that resonates with her and she's willing to accept your help, then you set aside some time to talk about how to break down her fears and problems into some things that can be tackled.
posted by desuetude at 11:09 PM on March 21, 2011
You say that she's gone to parenting classes and counseling, but what about suggesting a support group? There's a lot to be said from the ordinary shared experiences of people with a common issue -- it gives her "safe" venting room but also some perspective on relative levels of advantage.
Meanwhile, she's your closest friend and you're obviously invested in your familial relationship with her. I think that you can find a way to talk to her without sounding judgmental, it's just going to require work and honesty and a lot of restraint and maybe some research on your part.
If it were me, I'd probably point out that look, it seems like everyone is concerned about her mental and emotional exhaustion -- and there's gotta be an easier way to do this, and you really, really, really want to help her figure it out. If that resonates with her and she's willing to accept your help, then you set aside some time to talk about how to break down her fears and problems into some things that can be tackled.
posted by desuetude at 11:09 PM on March 21, 2011
+1 that there is no "uniting the front" because there's no "front."
It is irresponsible to try to wedge yourself into an unrelated child's life like this. It is clear that you do not grok what children need from the stuff about Steven's father -- I am sorry, but nobody is going to agree that it is better for Mom's high school pal of six months' tenancy to try to "parent" when Dad could step in. Alternatively, Grandma and Grandpa. You are really not in the running here, and are likely to cause damage by trying to pretend otherwise.
If you want to help, drop the white-knight parent-fantasies and take Steven out for fries and a chin-wag and homework help session here and there, offer yourself as a sympathetic ear to Emily. Be realistic about the situation and if Steven moving in with Dad is the best course -- which it may be given Emily's appalling parenting -- support your friend in making that transition instead of trying to derail it. Be a friend, not a parent. Particularly given your real lack of insight to the situation; you want to offer parenting advice, but it's clear you don't have anything useful in that department. And it is really not something one can pick up out of a book.
You really do need to detach a bit and get a more realistic assessment of the situation. Your friend can't even be arsed to provide proper dinnertimes for her son, she kicks him out for a 'night to herself' on a regular basis; this isn't normal stuff, and the kid has behaviour problems because your friend is a lazy parent (and a whiny one, and if she really feels she 'sacrificed her youth' etc I am sure her bitterness there is palpable to her son, and not doing anything good for his behaviour), not because of any 'manipulation' on his part.
posted by kmennie at 6:45 AM on March 22, 2011
It is irresponsible to try to wedge yourself into an unrelated child's life like this. It is clear that you do not grok what children need from the stuff about Steven's father -- I am sorry, but nobody is going to agree that it is better for Mom's high school pal of six months' tenancy to try to "parent" when Dad could step in. Alternatively, Grandma and Grandpa. You are really not in the running here, and are likely to cause damage by trying to pretend otherwise.
If you want to help, drop the white-knight parent-fantasies and take Steven out for fries and a chin-wag and homework help session here and there, offer yourself as a sympathetic ear to Emily. Be realistic about the situation and if Steven moving in with Dad is the best course -- which it may be given Emily's appalling parenting -- support your friend in making that transition instead of trying to derail it. Be a friend, not a parent. Particularly given your real lack of insight to the situation; you want to offer parenting advice, but it's clear you don't have anything useful in that department. And it is really not something one can pick up out of a book.
You really do need to detach a bit and get a more realistic assessment of the situation. Your friend can't even be arsed to provide proper dinnertimes for her son, she kicks him out for a 'night to herself' on a regular basis; this isn't normal stuff, and the kid has behaviour problems because your friend is a lazy parent (and a whiny one, and if she really feels she 'sacrificed her youth' etc I am sure her bitterness there is palpable to her son, and not doing anything good for his behaviour), not because of any 'manipulation' on his part.
posted by kmennie at 6:45 AM on March 22, 2011
As for Emily's parenting - I don't think it's dreadful
Yes, her parenting is dreadful. See this line: "she feels she has been waiting for his whole life for his behaviour to improve"
That's an inexcusable abdication of her responsibilities as parent. Take a mental step back, quit focusing on the father or on your idealized household that could have been, and the issues Steven has all seem to stem from Emily's parenting. All the courses and counseling and support groups in the world won't make a difference if Emily is uninterested and unwilling to be an effective parent. And, unfortunately, while it's not wrong to want him to be happier and healthier you're not in the position to make that happen nor should you expect to be able to.
posted by 6550 at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2011
Yes, her parenting is dreadful. See this line: "she feels she has been waiting for his whole life for his behaviour to improve"
That's an inexcusable abdication of her responsibilities as parent. Take a mental step back, quit focusing on the father or on your idealized household that could have been, and the issues Steven has all seem to stem from Emily's parenting. All the courses and counseling and support groups in the world won't make a difference if Emily is uninterested and unwilling to be an effective parent. And, unfortunately, while it's not wrong to want him to be happier and healthier you're not in the position to make that happen nor should you expect to be able to.
posted by 6550 at 7:36 PM on March 23, 2011
Best answer: Yes, her parenting is dreadful. See this line: "she feels she has been waiting for his whole life for his behaviour to improve"
Most people have emotional responses to difficult situations that sound "dreadful." They confide this sort of thing in their best friends. It doesn't mean that it's the guiding principle by which they make decisions.
posted by desuetude at 10:31 PM on March 23, 2011
Most people have emotional responses to difficult situations that sound "dreadful." They confide this sort of thing in their best friends. It doesn't mean that it's the guiding principle by which they make decisions.
posted by desuetude at 10:31 PM on March 23, 2011
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Sounds like you had an idealized picture of what your homelife with his kid and his mom would be and then it didn't become that and you feel like you have to get it back. But it was never there to begin with. Let it go.
posted by inturnaround at 12:47 PM on March 21, 2011 [2 favorites]