What do we look for in a school aside from a decent STAR rating?
March 13, 2011 9:27 AM Subscribe
Little Girl is starting school next fall. What do we look for in a school aside from a decent STAR rating? What questions do we need to be asking? Bonus if you can suggest good sets of schools in north San Diego.
She's entering elementary school, but we'd like to stay settled in an area for a long while, so are also looking at middle and high schools.
She has excellent support at home, but we'd like her to be in a supportive environment at school as well. My fantasy school would 1. have good teachers who work with kids and parents, and 2. take an effective, hard line against bullying. I have personal opinions about excessive homework, but I don't know if that fits anywhere in the real world.
We're not sure what to look for in specifics, and would be grateful for help.
She's entering elementary school, but we'd like to stay settled in an area for a long while, so are also looking at middle and high schools.
She has excellent support at home, but we'd like her to be in a supportive environment at school as well. My fantasy school would 1. have good teachers who work with kids and parents, and 2. take an effective, hard line against bullying. I have personal opinions about excessive homework, but I don't know if that fits anywhere in the real world.
We're not sure what to look for in specifics, and would be grateful for help.
(unless by "next fall" you mean "fall of 2012", in which case, take out my first sentence.)
posted by cooker girl at 9:42 AM on March 13, 2011
posted by cooker girl at 9:42 AM on March 13, 2011
Response by poster: Sorry, I meant this fall. We weren't in a position to consider it before this week, unfortunately.
By assignments being set, do you mean that there may not be room in our chosen school, and we'd need to find a school outside of the district we're living in? How do we know whether a school is competitive? How are assignments set?
Utterly clueless, here.
posted by moira at 9:47 AM on March 13, 2011
By assignments being set, do you mean that there may not be room in our chosen school, and we'd need to find a school outside of the district we're living in? How do we know whether a school is competitive? How are assignments set?
Utterly clueless, here.
posted by moira at 9:47 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: "Specials" such as PE, music, and art are as rare as hens' teeth in California, and schools that do have them are often self-funding those programs. So that's something to find out about. You will have high expectations placed on you in terms of fundraising and volunteer time at any decent school so be prepared for that.
Yes, in most districts if your "home" school or neighborhood school is already full, you'll end up with a second, third, fifth choice. California has a legal limit on kindergarten classroom size and you may find yourself in a pickle for the upcoming school year, trying to get her settled this late.
Your district may have some kind of department that can talk you through the admissions process, and you may be able to get some information directly from the trenches by contacting the school offices, or reaching out to PTA members at specific schools if their contact information is included on the school's website.
posted by padraigin at 10:07 AM on March 13, 2011
Yes, in most districts if your "home" school or neighborhood school is already full, you'll end up with a second, third, fifth choice. California has a legal limit on kindergarten classroom size and you may find yourself in a pickle for the upcoming school year, trying to get her settled this late.
Your district may have some kind of department that can talk you through the admissions process, and you may be able to get some information directly from the trenches by contacting the school offices, or reaching out to PTA members at specific schools if their contact information is included on the school's website.
posted by padraigin at 10:07 AM on March 13, 2011
Response by poster: It sounds like this year might already be considered a loss, as far as being able to choose a school we want. Are we in a better position for following years?
posted by moira at 10:13 AM on March 13, 2011
posted by moira at 10:13 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: Here's what I would suggest: call your district's administration office and tell them you're a fist-time parent, you have no idea what to do to get your child into school in the fall of 2011, and they will help you.
Good luck!
posted by cooker girl at 10:13 AM on March 13, 2011
Good luck!
posted by cooker girl at 10:13 AM on March 13, 2011
Are you looking to move?
Otherwise, go to the website of your local school district, find out what you're "in bounds" for and then google around and ask neighbors about the reputations of the schools.
For "top" schools, it is likely that they've already done placements.
posted by k8t at 10:14 AM on March 13, 2011
Otherwise, go to the website of your local school district, find out what you're "in bounds" for and then google around and ask neighbors about the reputations of the schools.
For "top" schools, it is likely that they've already done placements.
posted by k8t at 10:14 AM on March 13, 2011
Response by poster: Sorry, I guess I'm not being clear: we have no idea what school district we're looking at, yet. Anything but the one we're in, is all we know.
posted by moira at 10:15 AM on March 13, 2011
posted by moira at 10:15 AM on March 13, 2011
I am really confused by this question. Since you said you wanted to choose the school, do you mean private or charter schools? Your neighborhood school would be the one assigned for your child. I don't understand the "schools are full" argument because by law your home district must provide space, absolutely no way around it. If you dislike your neighborhood school you may file paperwork with the district requesting an alternative placement, it may in fact be too late for that.
posted by boobjob at 10:18 AM on March 13, 2011
posted by boobjob at 10:18 AM on March 13, 2011
Here's the SD school district website:
http://www.sandi.net/sandi/site/default.asp
And you can type in your address here:
http://old.sandi.net/schoolfinder/
And it will find your schools.
Here is a map for all schools:
http://www.sandi.net/2045107201145560/lib/2045107201145560/pdfs/boundary/ElemSchools2010.pdf
As far as finding a "good" school that is not your in-bounds school, you're probably going to have to ask around your neighborhood, local parenting list servs, etc.
posted by k8t at 10:18 AM on March 13, 2011
http://www.sandi.net/sandi/site/default.asp
And you can type in your address here:
http://old.sandi.net/schoolfinder/
And it will find your schools.
Here is a map for all schools:
http://www.sandi.net/2045107201145560/lib/2045107201145560/pdfs/boundary/ElemSchools2010.pdf
As far as finding a "good" school that is not your in-bounds school, you're probably going to have to ask around your neighborhood, local parenting list servs, etc.
posted by k8t at 10:18 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: Find out what the policies are regarding recess and lunch. I worked for a year with a kid who attended a public elementary school in California where the students were 1) not allowed to run on the playground and 2) not allowed to talk to their friends at the lunch tables. Both were boneheaded solutions to overcrowding. The idea was that if they didn't run around, no one would get hurt, and if they didn't "waste" time talking to people at lunch, the school could move different groups of kids in and out of the cafeteria more efficiently.
This school was also really big on shaming kids who brought "unhealthy" foods in their lunches and would confiscate things like cookies. (Um, first graders aren't generally responsible for choosing their own lunches. Just send a damn note home to the parents and call it a day.)
None of this happened at any of the other schools I've worked at. Just know that a particular school's administration can sometimes come up with policies you don't see elsewhere in the district.
posted by corey flood at 10:21 AM on March 13, 2011
This school was also really big on shaming kids who brought "unhealthy" foods in their lunches and would confiscate things like cookies. (Um, first graders aren't generally responsible for choosing their own lunches. Just send a damn note home to the parents and call it a day.)
None of this happened at any of the other schools I've worked at. Just know that a particular school's administration can sometimes come up with policies you don't see elsewhere in the district.
posted by corey flood at 10:21 AM on March 13, 2011
Response by poster: More clarification: yes, we are looking to move. That was part two of the question to be posted next week. We are not happy with the area we are living, school issue aside. No, we cannot afford private school. It looks like our best bet is to move into an area with several good schools.
I had no idea getting a child into a public school was such a rat race.
posted by moira at 10:24 AM on March 13, 2011
I had no idea getting a child into a public school was such a rat race.
posted by moira at 10:24 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: Your neighborhood school would be the one assigned for your child. I don't understand the "schools are full" argument because by law your home district must provide space, absolutely no way around it. If you dislike your neighborhood school you may file paperwork with the district requesting an alternative placement, it may in fact be too late for that.
The "schools are full" concept is pretty simple: if your neighborhood school has already hit its enrollment limit, your kid can't go there. This is less of a problem in later grades, but in California, a kindergarten class can't have more than a certain number of students, which means once those spots are full, that's it. They aren't necessarily going to go out and hire a new kindy teacher, they're going to shift kids to other schools with more space.
Most districts give priority to students who live in the school's boundary area/zone/neighborhood or however that district has things set up. However, most districts are also probably finishing up their school assignments right now. It's a little late for an incoming kindergartner to have a lot of choices. And then some schools are "open" enrollment with no boundaries, some districts do lotteries for all schools--it's really impossible to know what the OP is up against. Two different districts in the same metro area can often have wildly different enrollment processes.
You can file all the paperwork you want once schools have been assigned but it doesn't mean getting into your top-choice school.
posted by padraigin at 10:31 AM on March 13, 2011
The "schools are full" concept is pretty simple: if your neighborhood school has already hit its enrollment limit, your kid can't go there. This is less of a problem in later grades, but in California, a kindergarten class can't have more than a certain number of students, which means once those spots are full, that's it. They aren't necessarily going to go out and hire a new kindy teacher, they're going to shift kids to other schools with more space.
Most districts give priority to students who live in the school's boundary area/zone/neighborhood or however that district has things set up. However, most districts are also probably finishing up their school assignments right now. It's a little late for an incoming kindergartner to have a lot of choices. And then some schools are "open" enrollment with no boundaries, some districts do lotteries for all schools--it's really impossible to know what the OP is up against. Two different districts in the same metro area can often have wildly different enrollment processes.
You can file all the paperwork you want once schools have been assigned but it doesn't mean getting into your top-choice school.
posted by padraigin at 10:31 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: Getting kids into public school isn't a rat race, getting them into magnet/charter/school choice schools is the rat race. Yes, they're public schools but they're run more like private schools. Here's the link for San Diego schools enrollment options information. So yeah, you missed the enrollment date BUT they're still taking applications for kids who are new to the district, which your daughter is.
Definitely move to an area with good schools. To find that out, you're going to have to talk to parents. I find that districts will tell you all of the good stuff, and they'll shout it from the rooftops, but getting the nitty gritty out them is difficult at best and mostly all-out impossible.
That said, my son attended our local public school from preschool through eighth grade (he's still an eighth grader now) but we're sending him to private school for high school because our district has made so many cuts and they're probably going to consolidate the two high schools and we just don't feel it's a good fit for him any more. Can we afford it? No. He won a merit scholarship from the school that pays almost the entire four years of tuition. It's arts-oriented and small, and very strong in academics. It's going to be a good fit for him. My point is don't discount private schools right off the bat. It may be an option for you in the future.
I would concentrate on emotional and social needs in the early elementary years in any case. I could probably write a novel on this subject but I don't think it would address your specific question here. If you want, feel free to mefimail me.
posted by cooker girl at 10:35 AM on March 13, 2011
Definitely move to an area with good schools. To find that out, you're going to have to talk to parents. I find that districts will tell you all of the good stuff, and they'll shout it from the rooftops, but getting the nitty gritty out them is difficult at best and mostly all-out impossible.
That said, my son attended our local public school from preschool through eighth grade (he's still an eighth grader now) but we're sending him to private school for high school because our district has made so many cuts and they're probably going to consolidate the two high schools and we just don't feel it's a good fit for him any more. Can we afford it? No. He won a merit scholarship from the school that pays almost the entire four years of tuition. It's arts-oriented and small, and very strong in academics. It's going to be a good fit for him. My point is don't discount private schools right off the bat. It may be an option for you in the future.
I would concentrate on emotional and social needs in the early elementary years in any case. I could probably write a novel on this subject but I don't think it would address your specific question here. If you want, feel free to mefimail me.
posted by cooker girl at 10:35 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: Oh, one more thing that does apply: you might be surprised by your ability to receive financial aid for private schools. It's worth looking into, at any rate. I know of a family who is considered lower-middle-class but who send all three of their kids to private school via financial aid and they don't have to pay it back. It's not a loan, it's money the school provides. Disclaimer: this might be specific to Ohio, I don't know.
posted by cooker girl at 10:37 AM on March 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by cooker girl at 10:37 AM on March 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "I don't understand the "schools are full" argument because by law your home district must provide space, absolutely no way around it."
The home DISTRICT must provide space, but in my district (not in CA) we have elementary schools where 90% of students meet state standards and schools where 40% do. And we have schools that are literally FIRE-CODE full. Not even "this class cannot possibly get any bigger" full, but "you may not have any more people in this entire building" full. You might move into the neighborhood area of the 90%-achieving school but end up sent God knows where if enrollment is already full.
If this is an open-universe question, your best bet is to move into a fairly wealthy suburban area where voters can pass and can afford referendums to build new buildings and raise taxing rates to pay higher salaries (depending on how much Cali schools use local property taxes to fund local schools). They have their pick of teachers, they fund extracurriculars, they don't end up with overcrowded schools (and they can build more if they need to). Second best bet is a wealthier urban enclave OR a school district that serves a university area so you get lots of professors' kids and grad students' kids. In terms of the atmosphere of the school and the achievement level of the students, the PARENTS' level of education makes a HUGE difference for student success and professionals don't tolerate well when their kids are underserved.
Incidentally, a lot of our parents are having success in complaining about excessive homework, and there's something of a backlash against homework from teachers anyway because parents doing their kids' homework for them has gotten so rampant. Most of our schools cap how much of the grade homework can account for now because of parent cheating on homework, so that's reduced homework load as well.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:36 AM on March 13, 2011
The home DISTRICT must provide space, but in my district (not in CA) we have elementary schools where 90% of students meet state standards and schools where 40% do. And we have schools that are literally FIRE-CODE full. Not even "this class cannot possibly get any bigger" full, but "you may not have any more people in this entire building" full. You might move into the neighborhood area of the 90%-achieving school but end up sent God knows where if enrollment is already full.
If this is an open-universe question, your best bet is to move into a fairly wealthy suburban area where voters can pass and can afford referendums to build new buildings and raise taxing rates to pay higher salaries (depending on how much Cali schools use local property taxes to fund local schools). They have their pick of teachers, they fund extracurriculars, they don't end up with overcrowded schools (and they can build more if they need to). Second best bet is a wealthier urban enclave OR a school district that serves a university area so you get lots of professors' kids and grad students' kids. In terms of the atmosphere of the school and the achievement level of the students, the PARENTS' level of education makes a HUGE difference for student success and professionals don't tolerate well when their kids are underserved.
Incidentally, a lot of our parents are having success in complaining about excessive homework, and there's something of a backlash against homework from teachers anyway because parents doing their kids' homework for them has gotten so rampant. Most of our schools cap how much of the grade homework can account for now because of parent cheating on homework, so that's reduced homework load as well.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:36 AM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: You can get important snapshot information about a school's challenges (and, likely, priorities) from the US Department of Education statistics site. This, for example, is the result for the school my kids attend.
posted by MattD at 12:10 PM on March 13, 2011
posted by MattD at 12:10 PM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: If you can afford it, Del Mar would be a good choice. More money does mean better schools generally in California. They have a small-ish elementary district that feeds into the San Dieguito Union High School District, which has lots of good middle and high schools. Encinitas, Cardiff, Solana Beach, and Rancho Santa Fe also feed into that high school district with their own elementary school districts that are great as well. You might also look into places in the Poway school district -- I'm not that familiar with the area, but I know that Rancho Bernardo High has a solid reputation, so I imagine the district as a whole is better than average.
posted by wsquared at 12:32 PM on March 13, 2011
posted by wsquared at 12:32 PM on March 13, 2011
Best answer: I went through all years (K-12) at a district in North San Diego. So, if I understand correctly, you're looking to move to a district out of the city of San Diego proper and into the suburbs, but you don't know which one or what criteria to use to decide which one?
As far as school quality goes, I'd be willing to say you're making the right choice by moving north (I have cousins who went to school in SD proper--Patrick Henry was their high school--and neither of them finished school, though there were extenuating factors. The rest of us went to schools in Poway and Vista and we all turned out fine).
Some areas (not specific schools!) that I would recommend doing more research on: Poway, Carlsbad, Encinitas, Del Mar, the Rancho Santa Fe area, and if you're looking to stay closer to San Diego proper, Torrey Pines, La Jolla and around there. Not every region I listed is going to be strong in the areas you're interested in. Note that this is pretty much an exact listing of high income areas in the north end of the county--if you move be sure to ask your real estate agent (and verify with the district) what district your house will fall into!
For bullying information, I'd recommend definitely talking to the school and the administration and looking out for news articles about the school to see the general tenor of what's being reported. Once you're active parents in the district, you'll pick up on a lot more that goes unsaid.
For information about how the schools are performing academically, don't just rely on the statistics (STAR, Dept of Ed, the newspaper's annual reporting of NCLB testing--you did know that's typically reported in the North County Times newspaper, for all schools, right?) but also ask the school/district office questions as has been suggested.
Some specific questions to ask:
-How many parent volunteers they have (more=better)
-What sorts of supplies students are being asked to bring in to school (art supplies=fine, toilet paper=potentially bad news)
-What sorts of fundraisers they'll be asked to participate in
-How much time recess is given each day and whether that changes during testing
-What sorts of gifted placement the school has and whether they do tracking
-Whether or not there are charter schools operating in the district and what their relationship is to the district
-Whether or not there are magnet schools and what their standards are academically
-Whether the district offers Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate Programs, -Whether the alternative high school in the district (if any) is a dumping ground for failing kids or a genuinely alternative solution
-What sorts of assistance they offer if your child needs an IEP or experiences other learning disability issues
-What sorts of plans the school has to celebrate tolerance/diversity (if this matters to you)
-What sort of sex ed (if this is important to you) the district offers and at what ages (I should note I went to school in a district with abstinence only education and still turned out fine)
-How does the school deal with failing students (age promotion or academic?) and how does it deal with outstanding ones (skipping a grade or more? or do they believe that to be bad for the child socially?). This is sort of a question of what educational theories the administrators believe in.
posted by librarylis at 12:45 PM on March 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
As far as school quality goes, I'd be willing to say you're making the right choice by moving north (I have cousins who went to school in SD proper--Patrick Henry was their high school--and neither of them finished school, though there were extenuating factors. The rest of us went to schools in Poway and Vista and we all turned out fine).
Some areas (not specific schools!) that I would recommend doing more research on: Poway, Carlsbad, Encinitas, Del Mar, the Rancho Santa Fe area, and if you're looking to stay closer to San Diego proper, Torrey Pines, La Jolla and around there. Not every region I listed is going to be strong in the areas you're interested in. Note that this is pretty much an exact listing of high income areas in the north end of the county--if you move be sure to ask your real estate agent (and verify with the district) what district your house will fall into!
For bullying information, I'd recommend definitely talking to the school and the administration and looking out for news articles about the school to see the general tenor of what's being reported. Once you're active parents in the district, you'll pick up on a lot more that goes unsaid.
For information about how the schools are performing academically, don't just rely on the statistics (STAR, Dept of Ed, the newspaper's annual reporting of NCLB testing--you did know that's typically reported in the North County Times newspaper, for all schools, right?) but also ask the school/district office questions as has been suggested.
Some specific questions to ask:
-How many parent volunteers they have (more=better)
-What sorts of supplies students are being asked to bring in to school (art supplies=fine, toilet paper=potentially bad news)
-What sorts of fundraisers they'll be asked to participate in
-How much time recess is given each day and whether that changes during testing
-What sorts of gifted placement the school has and whether they do tracking
-Whether or not there are charter schools operating in the district and what their relationship is to the district
-Whether or not there are magnet schools and what their standards are academically
-Whether the district offers Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate Programs, -Whether the alternative high school in the district (if any) is a dumping ground for failing kids or a genuinely alternative solution
-What sorts of assistance they offer if your child needs an IEP or experiences other learning disability issues
-What sorts of plans the school has to celebrate tolerance/diversity (if this matters to you)
-What sort of sex ed (if this is important to you) the district offers and at what ages (I should note I went to school in a district with abstinence only education and still turned out fine)
-How does the school deal with failing students (age promotion or academic?) and how does it deal with outstanding ones (skipping a grade or more? or do they believe that to be bad for the child socially?). This is sort of a question of what educational theories the administrators believe in.
posted by librarylis at 12:45 PM on March 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Followup time: we found a wonderful school in a lovely neighborhood. The school accepts only students living within its boundaries, and hires to accommodate the number of Kindergarteners coming in, so we didn't have any trouble getting in. We're very happy with the middle school here, as well. The high school, not so much, but there's a new one to be built soon, and we can look into our options down the road, assuming we're still in the area.
Your answers were really helpful. Thanks so much.
posted by moira at 11:35 AM on May 1, 2011
Your answers were really helpful. Thanks so much.
posted by moira at 11:35 AM on May 1, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
I had a bit of advice from an art teacher friend when we were looking for districts to move into: what's the art and music situation at a given school? If it's good, and there are art/music classes during school, and there aren't threatened cuts, you've got a good district because that means there's money for that stuff (which many consider to be non-essential). A school district that values the arts values creativity.
You'll have to ask about the schools' bullying policy but really the best people to ask are the parents. The schools will say they have zero-tolerance but that doesn't always translate into "we take a proactive approach to bullying, not a reactive approach."
posted by cooker girl at 9:40 AM on March 13, 2011