title transfer fraud?

January 27, 2011 6:41 PM

Is this fraud involving a title transfer?

At the very end of August my boss and I signed a title transfer application on her car that I wanted to buy. I got insurance on it in September. In November we realized we didn't sign or include the title. We did so then and it was her idea to use the same date as the application - August 30. I called the tax office and asked about having one without the other after having an aunt tell me about fees and having to send it all in near the sale date. I was told there's nothing you can do without the title so there was no charge. That was before she decided to use the same date.

I sent everything in and just heard back the week of Jan 14th. Not only is the car worth far more to them (4530-ish) then I paid (1560) or that car max appraised it for (2500), they are also charging a late fee of 125 and increasing daily due to the title having the August date.

We are doing another appraisal in the morning with carmax so that may take down some of the taxes on the value.

This is the main bit though:

I've paid 5 payments with the last payment taken from my check today. My boss has decided that tomorrow will be the new date of sale, we'll sign all new transfer papers and the title is now sitting in my glove box with white out to change the date of sale. She says it makes sense to have insurance since I've been driving it. I know they can pull up our information and so now I'm worried it will be fraud to change it all now and then go up there in the morning.

Does this make sense? Is this legal? Should I call her and call it off? I don't have a choice but to go I just don't want to deal with any issues. She's willing to pay the 125 since she didn't give me the title but now she wants to do all this so we don't have to deal with it later, or increasing fees and such.

Any ideas as to what I should do?
Note- I wrote this on my phone. Sorry if there are plenty of errors.

posted by grablife365 to Travel & Transportation (8 answers total)

Is there anything that you can use to prove the later date? You could come at them sheepishly and say the wrong date is on the title and here, check out this canceled check (or whatever). You might at the same time ask for clarification on how they derived the car's value, just cuz yer curious.
posted by rhizome at 7:15 PM on January 27, 2011

Question: how are you going to change the date on the title that you signed? I don't think that is possible, so you are stuck with that date.

As to the value: they use (something like) the NADA Blue Book to get the value for taxation purposes. Otherwise everyone would just say they paid $1 for the car and pay almost no tax on it.
posted by gjc at 7:30 PM on January 27, 2011

I'm confused. If she is willing to pay the late fee, why not just have her pay it and leave the date the way it is?
posted by nel at 7:32 PM on January 27, 2011

Response by poster: I'll see if I even have texts or emails with the November date when I got the title. Thank you. No idea why I didn't think ok that. Problem might be that she already put white out on it.

The value I think we can work out. I spoke with the tax office earlier and if they take the new date then they might take a new appraisal. Otherwise we're messed on the appraisal end.

When we agreed to the sale, it was because the tax fee was 97 and not 500 based on incorrect info. Her paying that part is fine with me but now she wants to see about lowering the rest of it so it can all be handled sooner and I guess out of her name. With it being higher I won't be abe to handle that till my taxes come in. I'm also on maternity leave starting tomorrow and she might be worried it won't be done for a while.
posted by grablife365 at 7:59 PM on January 27, 2011

This varies by jurisdiction, and your questions are far from clear. However, in my state, the title is the proof of ownership. It really does not matter when it actually passes, unless the buyer gets into an accident before the transfer takes place. You have to insure a car (in my state) if you own it or if you have full use of it even if someone else owns it.
posted by megatherium at 8:30 PM on January 27, 2011

I'm a little confused about this too. It isn't uncommon for the owner to not transfer the title until the car is paid for in full so I'm not sure why there is such a problem with the title transfer and I am also not sure how a change in date will impact the value of the car (ie: the value of the car shouldn't change dramatically from just a few months ago).
posted by MsKim at 10:49 PM on January 27, 2011

Think of it like two transactions. The first is transferring ownership of the car. This is when you make the agreement and the keys are handed over.

Then there is the loan for the price of the car. You pay that off when you pay it off, but you still have the car.

The way it is usually done (at least at retail, no clue about private to private) is that the title is transferred, but a lien is also added to the title so the seller can reposses the car if the loan isn't paid up.

So, what you should do is get all the paperwork done and filed and fees paid, and then let your boss tell you how much more you owe her.
posted by gjc at 8:55 AM on January 28, 2011

In my experience in MN, the presence of obviously modified values on the title transfer application requires extra paperwork, but as long as both parties sign an extra form agreeing the modification is correct, no one seems to bat an eyelash.

Also, my parents ran a title registrar's office, and the office had no access with the insurance companies at all - couldn't even tell if the policy number provided by the buyer was valid. So I wouldn't get too worried about when you put insurance on the car.

Of course, YMMV.
posted by superna at 6:38 PM on January 28, 2011