Job Bait and Switch, Wrong doing to my wife and I'm stark raving mad
January 17, 2011 5:39 PM Subscribe
Job Bait and Switch, Wrong doing to my wife and I'm stark raving mad. Understood YANML.
Mrs Haujobbin had been working in Health Care in a Home Care position prior to getting pregnant and worked for a small company with good small company leadership and despite it lower compensation (known going in) enjoyed the job. Fortunate for us no problem as compensation not the end all for us and she had worked in higher paced and pay Inpatient Hospitals when she started out a decade ago.
We were lucky to have twin boys and exercised the fortunate position for Mrs. H to stop working and spend the first 2 1/2 years at home with the boys, now they are off to Bilingual Daycare three days a week.
Former employer creates a nice 3 day a week part time position that should net a few dollars a week after considering the insane New England daycare cost. Boys and Momma get out in the world.
Unfortunately turns out that the small company has not been getting the patients so Mrs Haujobbin did not get enough hours to cover daycare cost, patients all being gobbled up by one of the if not the largest Health Care organization, one name, many hospitals, many patients that need care post discharge.
This led to stress on the question of are we doing the right thing for our boys and the situation where former coworkers at wifes work now sharing limited patients with part time Ms. H everyone at small company feeling the pressure.
Not personally possible for me to accept Mrs H paying to go to work.
As a couple we really want our boys to have the socialization and the immersion in Spanish that their daycare provides.
We decided the solution was to look for another employer, the Large organization that seems to have all the patients also doing all the hiring.
Large Employer offers - 3 days a week, no weekend committment and an admissions only job which is more paperwork but it can be done off hours so it is helpful for Mrs H schedule, daycare PU and DO and quality time with the boys. Well known that this employer has more admissions than they can handle and they are forming a whole new team to handle the load.
Large Employer confirms the no weekend commitment by offering package A with weekend commitment and package B without.
Offer is made by a seasoned manager and it is communicated that a new manager is already on board for the new team.
Friendly depature with Small Company and more consistant job with large provider verbally agreed upon.
Orientation at new job as expected in a larger company, Mrs H meets the new Manager and other new Team mates.
Conversation with New Manger (First Time Manager and no previous experience in Home Care) goes something like "Of course weekends are required, everyone has to work weekends" followed by "Admissions Only that is just not going to be possible"
Conversation with Seasoned Manager who offered details at interview/offer stages confirms "yes, no weekends and admissions is what we discussed"
Internal Manager meetings insue and the verdict comes back that " We are really sorry but you do have to work weekends and admissions only is probably not going to work". Other new employees seem to have similar communication problems concerning weekends and details.
Mrs H is not one to complain although she would not have changed jobs without the No Weekends and Admissions Only promises.
Seems that Mrs H misplaced her trust based on someones word, who says publicly "I feel really bad about it" and has not recanted that no weekends and admissions only was what was discussed.
Questions for the Hive Mind:
Does Mrs H have any rights based on a verbal offer?
Would a letter from a friendly lawyer help?
What would you do in this situation?
Looking for some satisfaction from knowing that the company knows that this sort of behavior is not acceptable at all.
Want others to not have the same experience and willing to make some effort to limit this happening in the future
Mrs Haujobbin had been working in Health Care in a Home Care position prior to getting pregnant and worked for a small company with good small company leadership and despite it lower compensation (known going in) enjoyed the job. Fortunate for us no problem as compensation not the end all for us and she had worked in higher paced and pay Inpatient Hospitals when she started out a decade ago.
We were lucky to have twin boys and exercised the fortunate position for Mrs. H to stop working and spend the first 2 1/2 years at home with the boys, now they are off to Bilingual Daycare three days a week.
Former employer creates a nice 3 day a week part time position that should net a few dollars a week after considering the insane New England daycare cost. Boys and Momma get out in the world.
Unfortunately turns out that the small company has not been getting the patients so Mrs Haujobbin did not get enough hours to cover daycare cost, patients all being gobbled up by one of the if not the largest Health Care organization, one name, many hospitals, many patients that need care post discharge.
This led to stress on the question of are we doing the right thing for our boys and the situation where former coworkers at wifes work now sharing limited patients with part time Ms. H everyone at small company feeling the pressure.
Not personally possible for me to accept Mrs H paying to go to work.
As a couple we really want our boys to have the socialization and the immersion in Spanish that their daycare provides.
We decided the solution was to look for another employer, the Large organization that seems to have all the patients also doing all the hiring.
Large Employer offers - 3 days a week, no weekend committment and an admissions only job which is more paperwork but it can be done off hours so it is helpful for Mrs H schedule, daycare PU and DO and quality time with the boys. Well known that this employer has more admissions than they can handle and they are forming a whole new team to handle the load.
Large Employer confirms the no weekend commitment by offering package A with weekend commitment and package B without.
Offer is made by a seasoned manager and it is communicated that a new manager is already on board for the new team.
Friendly depature with Small Company and more consistant job with large provider verbally agreed upon.
Orientation at new job as expected in a larger company, Mrs H meets the new Manager and other new Team mates.
Conversation with New Manger (First Time Manager and no previous experience in Home Care) goes something like "Of course weekends are required, everyone has to work weekends" followed by "Admissions Only that is just not going to be possible"
Conversation with Seasoned Manager who offered details at interview/offer stages confirms "yes, no weekends and admissions is what we discussed"
Internal Manager meetings insue and the verdict comes back that " We are really sorry but you do have to work weekends and admissions only is probably not going to work". Other new employees seem to have similar communication problems concerning weekends and details.
Mrs H is not one to complain although she would not have changed jobs without the No Weekends and Admissions Only promises.
Seems that Mrs H misplaced her trust based on someones word, who says publicly "I feel really bad about it" and has not recanted that no weekends and admissions only was what was discussed.
Questions for the Hive Mind:
Does Mrs H have any rights based on a verbal offer?
Would a letter from a friendly lawyer help?
What would you do in this situation?
Looking for some satisfaction from knowing that the company knows that this sort of behavior is not acceptable at all.
Want others to not have the same experience and willing to make some effort to limit this happening in the future
I doubt it, both to whether she has any rights and whether a letter from a friendly lawyer (what does that mean?) would help.
I'm guessing you live in the US. In most (possibly all) states, employment is at will. Legally, it's tough to prove damages when your employer can fire you at any time for any reason (this might, however, give her cause to quit and maintain unemployment eligibility or something like that). It might be worth talking with an employment law attorney, but the guess here is she doesn't have any real recourse.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:12 PM on January 17, 2011
I'm guessing you live in the US. In most (possibly all) states, employment is at will. Legally, it's tough to prove damages when your employer can fire you at any time for any reason (this might, however, give her cause to quit and maintain unemployment eligibility or something like that). It might be worth talking with an employment law attorney, but the guess here is she doesn't have any real recourse.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:12 PM on January 17, 2011
1) Maybe, depends on your state's laws and what kind of documentation you have. Only a lawyer can tell you for sure.
2) See above.
3) I would talk to an employment lawyer. See if there are any organizations in your area that can connect you with an attorney who will do a reduced-cost initial consult (where I live, this is called the Lawyer Referral Service. No clue if similar things exist in your area). That way you can figure out what your chances are of having any recourse and whether it will be worth it financially to pursue it.
Unfortunately, it's a buyer's market for labor right now in most fields, so employers are getting away with a lot more unethical but maybe not-quite illegal stuff.
I ain't a lawyer.
posted by elpea at 6:18 PM on January 17, 2011
2) See above.
3) I would talk to an employment lawyer. See if there are any organizations in your area that can connect you with an attorney who will do a reduced-cost initial consult (where I live, this is called the Lawyer Referral Service. No clue if similar things exist in your area). That way you can figure out what your chances are of having any recourse and whether it will be worth it financially to pursue it.
Unfortunately, it's a buyer's market for labor right now in most fields, so employers are getting away with a lot more unethical but maybe not-quite illegal stuff.
I ain't a lawyer.
posted by elpea at 6:18 PM on January 17, 2011
Response by poster: We live in Massachusetts
I understand that a legal approach may not work out but could a letter from a lawyer (who is a friend) help communicate how unacceptable this is as a hiring practice?
Also looking for suggestions to assist in communicating to the employer without a lawyer.
posted by Haujobbin at 6:31 PM on January 17, 2011
I understand that a legal approach may not work out but could a letter from a lawyer (who is a friend) help communicate how unacceptable this is as a hiring practice?
Also looking for suggestions to assist in communicating to the employer without a lawyer.
posted by Haujobbin at 6:31 PM on January 17, 2011
If you don't actually have a legal leg to stand on, a letter from a lawyer will be the exact same thing as a letter of resignation, with a slight variation regarding unemployment eligibility.
Seriously, though, what is your desired outcome? It sounds like working the schedule she was promised is not going to be an option.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:38 PM on January 17, 2011
Seriously, though, what is your desired outcome? It sounds like working the schedule she was promised is not going to be an option.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:38 PM on January 17, 2011
Best answer: Does Mrs H have any rights based on a verbal offer? Yes.
Would a letter from a friendly lawyer help? I seriously doubt it, this early. Getting legal advice immediately is critical. You can talk to the local labor board, they won't do anything other than maybe offer advice until you file a complaint. A letter from a lawyer will only put the company on their guard, and it is not likely to change the situation. If you were going to get a lawyer to write a letter, just ask the lawyer for advice. For now.
What would you do in this situation? You have Seasoned Manager who said what was offered, no weekends. The Company knows s/he said this. He knows s/he said this.
Write down everything you know. Names, dates, times, everything. Get actual legal advice. Plan on not staying. Look for another job, maybe go back to old job if they'll have her. Document your costs.
Instead of a letter from a lawyer, write a letter explaining the situation to the company. Describe the hiring process in the letter, that she was offered the job under certain conditions. Explain she can't stay under these circumstances, she took the job under certain premises, she would not have taken the job otherwise. Ask the company to permit her to work under the circumstances they offered verbally. They won't change their mind, but the letter does two things: 1. gives them a chance to remedy the situation; 2. documents the way the situation evolved. The company's failure to act on a remedy, as well as their possible failure to contradict your story, will help build your case.
Plan on suing to recover the costs. I doubt they'll pay anything without a suit. You don't have to sue. But you won't get a thing from them otherwise. Don't tell them right away. Be nice first.
The other option is to suck it up and continue working for a company you know will lie to you. Or suck it up and quit outright.
Option C is Machiavellian. You know they lie to their employees. They are certainly lying to their customers and insurance companies. Very quietly continue to work for them until you can build up a hefty whistleblower case. In most states you get a percentage of costs involved. (This is not "good" advice. It's what I would consider doing if I were really angry.)
You'll still have to care for the kids too.
posted by Xoebe at 6:41 PM on January 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Would a letter from a friendly lawyer help? I seriously doubt it, this early. Getting legal advice immediately is critical. You can talk to the local labor board, they won't do anything other than maybe offer advice until you file a complaint. A letter from a lawyer will only put the company on their guard, and it is not likely to change the situation. If you were going to get a lawyer to write a letter, just ask the lawyer for advice. For now.
What would you do in this situation? You have Seasoned Manager who said what was offered, no weekends. The Company knows s/he said this. He knows s/he said this.
Write down everything you know. Names, dates, times, everything. Get actual legal advice. Plan on not staying. Look for another job, maybe go back to old job if they'll have her. Document your costs.
Instead of a letter from a lawyer, write a letter explaining the situation to the company. Describe the hiring process in the letter, that she was offered the job under certain conditions. Explain she can't stay under these circumstances, she took the job under certain premises, she would not have taken the job otherwise. Ask the company to permit her to work under the circumstances they offered verbally. They won't change their mind, but the letter does two things: 1. gives them a chance to remedy the situation; 2. documents the way the situation evolved. The company's failure to act on a remedy, as well as their possible failure to contradict your story, will help build your case.
Plan on suing to recover the costs. I doubt they'll pay anything without a suit. You don't have to sue. But you won't get a thing from them otherwise. Don't tell them right away. Be nice first.
The other option is to suck it up and continue working for a company you know will lie to you. Or suck it up and quit outright.
Option C is Machiavellian. You know they lie to their employees. They are certainly lying to their customers and insurance companies. Very quietly continue to work for them until you can build up a hefty whistleblower case. In most states you get a percentage of costs involved. (This is not "good" advice. It's what I would consider doing if I were really angry.)
You'll still have to care for the kids too.
posted by Xoebe at 6:41 PM on January 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Let me see if I can summarize your situation. Mrs. H was working at a job that was costing you cash out of pocket. She could stay home and be dollars ahead, but wants to work so that the children can have socialization and a bi-lingual experience. She interviewed for a job that turned out not to be the job she expected. You have decided that she will only work under the conditions that she expected and will not accept a different assignment, although (with some inconvenience) it would allow the children to have what you want them to have.
So, you could sue either for specific performance which would get her the exact job she was expecting right up until her first unsatisfactory review, or you could sue for monetary damages which there seems to none of.
If the true objective is to make enough money to keep the kids in their school, I suggest she will have better success by looking for employment elsewhere on a full-time basis. I realize that there won't be some of the perks she was looking for (like PU and DO time) but after two years out of the workforce and today's employment picture, maybe not everything is possible at once.
posted by Old Geezer at 8:33 PM on January 17, 2011 [9 favorites]
So, you could sue either for specific performance which would get her the exact job she was expecting right up until her first unsatisfactory review, or you could sue for monetary damages which there seems to none of.
If the true objective is to make enough money to keep the kids in their school, I suggest she will have better success by looking for employment elsewhere on a full-time basis. I realize that there won't be some of the perks she was looking for (like PU and DO time) but after two years out of the workforce and today's employment picture, maybe not everything is possible at once.
posted by Old Geezer at 8:33 PM on January 17, 2011 [9 favorites]
I would follow Xoebe's advice but I would visibly cc: the corporate HR manager, not just the local/onsite manager & HR manager. They need to know that promises were made to you and that you quit an existing job based on this verbal agreement. (They don't need to know that the other job wasn't working out.) You should also mention that other employees are having similar problems. I'm a firm believer in complaining up the food chain and you can bet that this issue will come up in the others' performance reviews. One word of caution, you may be burning a bridge. You might not ever be able to work for this company and in two years, your kids will be in school full time and you'll be available for full time work. You could be assed out a job with the area's largest employer in your field.
The other option is to take Old Geezer's advice and suck it up and do what's best for your family even if the hours are not ideal. (It might be worth asking for only 1 or 2 weekends a month instead of every weekend but that doesn't seem likely to be accommodated and you already know they can't be trusted.) Otherwise, it's time to move on and find something that really offers you the part time schedule you desire.
posted by shoesietart at 9:23 AM on January 18, 2011
The other option is to take Old Geezer's advice and suck it up and do what's best for your family even if the hours are not ideal. (It might be worth asking for only 1 or 2 weekends a month instead of every weekend but that doesn't seem likely to be accommodated and you already know they can't be trusted.) Otherwise, it's time to move on and find something that really offers you the part time schedule you desire.
posted by shoesietart at 9:23 AM on January 18, 2011
Does Mrs H have any rights based on a verbal offer? Probably not
Would a letter from a friendly lawyer help? No, more out of pocket cost
What would you do in this situation? I would watch the kids on the weekends when the misses works so that you can afford to send them to daycare until the misses finds a job that is more in tune with her desired schedule, etc.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:45 AM on January 18, 2011
Would a letter from a friendly lawyer help? No, more out of pocket cost
What would you do in this situation? I would watch the kids on the weekends when the misses works so that you can afford to send them to daycare until the misses finds a job that is more in tune with her desired schedule, etc.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:45 AM on January 18, 2011
Response by poster: Everyone thanks for you advice.
Xoebe, We were going through with the documentation and as Shoesietart suggested going to the corporate HR Manager.
Prior to putting documents into HR hands, the new manager approached Mrs H and pointed out that she has noticed a number of these issues and is collecting information. She also offered Mrs H the original admissions only arrangement and apologized about the weekend although she admitted that she is unable to change it.
Mrs H has accepted she cannot trust the company but possibly can trust the manager. As this is a new team with more than one person who will have to compromise Mrs H will work through the minor frustration of the weekend work.
As Xoebe thoughtfully said, we still have to care for the kids
Again thanks everyone!!
posted by Haujobbin at 6:42 PM on January 21, 2011
Xoebe, We were going through with the documentation and as Shoesietart suggested going to the corporate HR Manager.
Prior to putting documents into HR hands, the new manager approached Mrs H and pointed out that she has noticed a number of these issues and is collecting information. She also offered Mrs H the original admissions only arrangement and apologized about the weekend although she admitted that she is unable to change it.
Mrs H has accepted she cannot trust the company but possibly can trust the manager. As this is a new team with more than one person who will have to compromise Mrs H will work through the minor frustration of the weekend work.
As Xoebe thoughtfully said, we still have to care for the kids
Again thanks everyone!!
posted by Haujobbin at 6:42 PM on January 21, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rhizome at 6:05 PM on January 17, 2011