Good Boy Gone Bad!

January 12, 2011 1:22 PM

I have a 2 year 2 month old standard poodle, obviously the best. dog. ever. Although, recently, not so much. Terrible twos? What to do?!

Enzo is a sweet-tempered, affectionate, obedient and friendly dog since I got him two years ago. I worked hard to get him that way! He's 95 lbs, so his friendliness can be intimidating to people and dogs, especially little little dogs and I've always been real strict about how he approaches/is approached. Up until recently, he's been good about responding to me and being called off when he gets too enthusiastic. Lately, he's been too-friendly-aggressive and his size, combined with some tough-guy behaviors and listening less, is making things a lot less fun!

For example, I walk every morning at 6 a.m. in Riverside Park in NYC, off leash, with a pack of walkers/dogs and have been doing so since I got him 2 years ago. He is very friendly with this pack, more so with some dogs than others. He's newly fixated on a tiny chihuahua that trots along with us whom he didn't even notice before -- he hung out with the bigger, badass dogs. Now, he's like obsessed with running circles around this teeny dog, barking, play bowing, just not leaving her alone. It's causing the walk to be unpleasant as we all try to keep Trixie from having a breakdown, and get Enzo to un-fixate.

Today for the first time, he got into a fairly serious scuffle with one of his mates, not sure what the cause was. They were all hopped up on snow, tearing around the park like maniacs, and all of a sudden they got into it pretty good. This is very unusual for him (less unusual for the other dog) -- he's always been first one to run and hide behind my legs when there's fighting.

On-leash he's always been excellent -- walks with me, approachable but not too, waits, is tuned in to me. Recently, he's been lunging at little fluffy white dogs, tail wagging, barking, just really aggressively trying to play. Honestly, I've been unprepared a few times and almost lost control of him -- he's powerful -- and gotten pulled down myself. Needless to say this does not endear him to the fluffy dog-owners.

Finally, he's lived in an apartment since I got him, and recently, he's barking/straining at other tenants in the lobby. Ugh! It's all within the last couple months, since he turned two.

I've been refreshing training, and during altercations or big bad behaviors, doing the alpha-roll when he doesn't respond to commands. I do get him calmed down and focused on me, but as soon as I let him up, he resumes the madness.

Help! I'm going on vacation in a month, and I have a dog-sitter coming (who knows him) but I don't want it to be a bad experience for all of us. Plus, make it stop!

posted by thinkpiece to pets & animals (23 answers total)

Do you let him have any opportunities to roughhouse with other dogs of his size? he is a big young boy and living in an apartment is not going to get him the exercise and stimulation that he needs. If there is a size appropriate dog park nearby where you can let him off of his leash and he can run and and behave stupidly with other dogs then I would strongly suggest that.

Also, its not really safe for a chihuaha to be in a pack type atmosphere with dogs that are 10x its size, even if they are well behaved they are still dogs.
posted by BobbyDigital at 1:39 PM on January 12, 2011

No, as I say, we walk every morning for over an hour with a lot of big dogs. He's also well-exercised in the evening -- this isn't about apartment living. These are all new behaviors in the same environment with the same players.
posted by thinkpiece at 1:42 PM on January 12, 2011

I mean, playas.
posted by thinkpiece at 1:42 PM on January 12, 2011

First, you broke the rules -- where's the obligatory Enzo-picture? :)

Is Enzo neutered? A lot of unneutered male dogs will start acting more aggressively/unpredictably/dominantly at 18 months-2 years old, especially the larger breeds which are slower to mature than the little teeny guys.

Reinforcing obedience training is usually a good idea -- personally, I'm not that big of a fan of the alpha-roll, though. I think it's a bit too stressful of a tactic for most dogs -- alpha-rolling a dog is basically equivalent to throwing your toddler on the floor and slapping her about the head and neck. So, I feel like it can backfire sometimes and result in more of the undesirable behavior showing up, just 'cause the dog feels stressed-out and threatened. I usually have good luck with a prong collar for curbing most unwanted pulling/lunging behaviors with leashed dogs.
posted by kataclysm at 1:45 PM on January 12, 2011 [1 favorite]

Sorry if you said this above, but I don't think I see the answer -- is he fixed?

also this is the type of problem helped by pics please
posted by inigo2 at 1:46 PM on January 12, 2011

In dog ages your guy is about 18. Is he fixed? Is the little Mexican Hottie fixed? If the Chihuahua is coming into heat you can bet that him and his friends will stop being buddies and start being competition. Kind of like most teenagers.

(Can't believe you updated and left out the picture. What kind of doggy parent are you!?)
posted by TooFewShoes at 1:59 PM on January 12, 2011

Yes, he's fixed. Sorry. And I know, I don't have a flickr account. I'll set it up later. You could see his big wet rubbery nose on my MeFi profile pic.
posted by thinkpiece at 2:00 PM on January 12, 2011

I'm going to answer and assume he is neutered. If not, that may be about 90% of your problem and I suggest neutering, ASAP. There are basically zero reasons to keep a 2-year old male intact, and about a million reasons to neuter him. That being said....

Welcome to the terrible 2s, and yes, it does exist with dogs. I work with the local Doberman rescue group and I'd say about 75% of the dogs that are surrendered to us are 18-36 months. They start acting like jackasses around this age, and lots of folks aren't prepared or patient enough to deal with it.

Large dogs seem to mentally mature slower than small dogs. Also, Standard Poodles (like Dobes) are wicked smart, as I'm sure you know. If I were you, I'd start working on some very specific obedience commands like recall, heel, and sit. And when I say work, I mean spend half an hour every day teaching and reinforcing these commands. It will help in two ways - 1) it will focus his mind and start burning off what I think of as the "brain energy" that smart dogs have, and 2) when he starts acting up on walks or at the park, you can use these commands to redirect his focus and get him to stop his behavior.

Don't panic though. Your dog has not gone nuts. You are not a bad owner. This is most likely a stage resulting from him being a teenager and wanting to test the boundaries a little. I *personally* would stop doing the "alpha roll" - I feel it's not really productive with the intelligent working breeds and can actually backfire pretty badly. Reinforce obedience commands, both in your apartment and while on walks, and definitely reinforce good behavior - treats if he sees a neighbor and doesn't bark, treats if he walks with the other pack like a good boy, etc. Spend as much time as you possibly can exposing him to the things that are triggering him and let him know through commands and praise exactly how you want him to respond in these situations.

It will take some work on your part, but it will get better!
posted by tryniti at 2:13 PM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]

I had a similar situation with my Presa Canario around the same age. My guy pretended he knew no commands and that we'd never met. I tightened up on the training and kept my big boy on leash more until he started being more obedient. I also use an e-collar. Not everyone is a fan of e-collars and prong collars but with a huge and powerful dog, they've worked great for me. If you go that route, you should definitely work with a dog trainer experienced with using them.

My big guy is always on a prong collar when we're out and I use the e-collar if I know he's going to be off leash and running in wide open spaces. So, I don't use the e-collar at my little local park when he's off leash but I do at the beach or at Golden Gate Park when I know he's going to be running at a distance.

It sounds like you need to re-focus on obedience. If he can't play nicely with Trixie or the other dogs, he should be by your side in a heel. The trainer can show you how to do corrections using the prong collar. Make sure he's getting enough exercise and vary the places where you take him. The same walk, the same park, the same other dogs gets boring. Also, make sure you're engaging him at the park. Standing around at the park while he sniffs and pees is not exercise. I also walk my dog before taking him to play with other dogs so that he's not overly excited when he gets there.

Big dogs mature more slowly and at two, he's a teenager testing boundaries. I'm a firm believer in Cesar Milan's credo of exercise, discipline and affection. Step back a bit from the dog parks and work on obedience and make sure he gets lots of exercise.
posted by shoesietart at 2:16 PM on January 12, 2011

I too feel it's a behavioral phase. If you can swing the expense, perhaps sending him to boot camp while you're away might be (a) beneficial for him & (b) provide you with some peace of mind that he hasn't escaped the dog-sitter & eaten someone's muffin-fluffykins.
posted by PepperMax at 2:17 PM on January 12, 2011

The alpha roll is not a viable training method for most (all) people.

What you have basically taught your dog in this scenario is:
- he sees chihuahua friend, shows interest
- you take him aside and roll him over, reacting negatively to the situation, with high stress, pitched or pinched or lowered voice
- but he gets attention for that behavior
- so he goes back and does it again, ramping it up this time
- he shows aggression and gets rewarded again, by getting good attention from you

You need to enroll him in science-based training or read up on other kinds of training methods. Classical conditioning, clicker training, etc., are all ways of rewarding your dog's behavior through positive training methods.

New training method would be something like:
- you stand with Enzo on a leash, with a loose leash and remaining calm
- Chihuahua comes over, also on a leash, stops before his arrival excites Enzo
- you reward Enzo with a treat
- repeat, with Chihuahua coming a bit closer, and the rewards keep coming
- if Enzo starts going after chihuahua, go back to a previous step with the chihuahua stopping further away and progress again

or: reverse this scenario, with chihuahua standing still, you walking over to Enzo, rewarding good loose leash behavior.

Basically you need to up the ante with positive-training methods. Lots and lots of treats for little things, well before you move up to interacting with chihuahua or other dogs off leash. This kind of dog aggression can ramp up REALLY quickly and then it's a whole other can of worms. Just getting him focused on you and then back into the situation will not work.

See my comment here and here for specific book and training recommendations.

A bit more info here on wikipedia on why the Alpha Roll is an incredibly outdated theory based on completely wrong notions of dog dominance and behavior and is not recommended by trainers for anything close to this scenario. It is a dangerous practice, increases anxiety in the dog, and will lead to many more problems down the road.

I would highly recommend finding a qualified dog trainer or class in your area to work with you and your dog a few times. Ask if they use positive-reinforcement, clicker training or other kinds of positive-reward training methods. nb: positive-reinforcement doesn't mean "permissive of everything, anything goes, will just give out cookies when I see something good happening" - it is a method of recognizing how your dog responds to input, stimulus and reinforcement.

Good luck and good for you for recognizing that something isn't working!
posted by barnone at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2011 [2 favorites]

And I do not suggest sending him away to boot camp. Dog training is 50-50 -- teaching you how to read and respond and train your dog, and teaching your dog what you're looking for and how to respond to get the yummy treat!

If you send him away all you get is the crib notes: use this hand signal and this voice command to get this behavior.

But it's all the work going into that training that makes it a successful (and fun!! and rewarding for you!!) LIFE-LONG relationship. So much of training is reading signals, timing, and you learning how to adapt to new scenarios based on the dog and your understanding of things. Boot camp can't do any of that.
posted by barnone at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2011

(I promise to shut up shortly!)

While training this way, one way to really build a good training relationship is to remove most (or all) of his daily food in a bowl. Make him earn all of his normal dog food by good behavior: sit at the door, open the door, keep him sitting, reward. Loose leash walking on the street: reward. Sit and look at person on bench from 10 feet away, reward. Walk by quietly: reward. Walk by other dog: reward. Go into elevator, sit, reward. Stand in hallway while people walk by: reward. Walk in dog pack by your side: reward.

(The rewards have to be combined with a marker word, i.e. YES! or a clicker, to mark the behavior you're trying to replicate. So it's not just handing out food -- watch some clicker training youtube or other videos and read one of the books for more info!)

My dog was kind of meh about food-based training which was really cramping our progress. Someone suggested that if he already has all of his food needs met for the day, or knows it will come later, there isn't much incentive to get 'bonus' food or treats. The stakes for the game are just gravy, rather than serious training for his food needs. After we removed his food bowl and started giving his regular kibble via training, his entire relationship to food and training completely changed. And -- it's not cruel! The idea is that training is AWESOME and fun. I've noticed that dogs would rather interact and work for their food than just get it plopped down in front of them. It challenges their mind and gets them tired in ways that food-in-bowl just doesn't. It becomes a game.
posted by barnone at 2:47 PM on January 12, 2011 [1 favorite]

The most important thing about a prong collar is that your dog should be near you when you want him near you. And the prong collar can help you with that.

If the dog is pulling and the leash is taut, you need to make the prongs do their job. If your dog isn't reliably coming to heel when he's off the leash, you have more on leash work to do.

How new is this fixation with Trixie? Your dog needs to be able to follow your commands regardless of the distractions he is faced with. (I'm thinking of far more terrible situations than chihuahua lust cropping up)

Please don't alpha roll your dog. It's confusing and useless, at best, as illustrated above.
posted by bilabial at 2:58 PM on January 12, 2011

Thanks everyone, this is very helpful. No more alpha-rolling. I ordered the books, and I'm looking at prong collars.

His "Trixation" (heh) started about a week ago; we've been walking with Trixie for about 3 months (she's the sibling of a Great Dane).
posted by thinkpiece at 4:02 PM on January 12, 2011

For many dog issues, the resolution is: More Exercise. Lots more exercise.
posted by theora55 at 4:11 PM on January 12, 2011

Gangsta!
posted by thinkpiece at 4:21 PM on January 12, 2011 [8 favorites]

My dog is two and had recently started doing a lot of the same stuff. One thing that helps a lot is that knows a command "on by" from skiing that means go past stuff without stopping. Useful command.
posted by fshgrl at 4:48 PM on January 12, 2011

Poodles are smart dogs. I agree with most of barnone's comments here. I will add that getting involved in a dog sport (agility, rally, nosework, tracking) will help a LOT - giving a smart dog a job to do helps a ton, and mental exercise is as important as physical exercise for tiring a dog out. If dog sports are not an option, get a clicker training book and teach him a new trick from scratch, using shaping, every week. You will have a better-trained dog (the more he learns, the more he CAN learn), and you will have a way to focus his attention.

Despite their popularity, dog parks are really just not suitable for all dogs, your dog may have outgrown his time at the dog park, at least with this bunch of dogs (indeed, I generally think that dog parks are accidents waiting to happen, but I know many people enjoy them). That said, keep in mind that what people often characterize as a "fight" is nothing of the sort. Loud, shouty tussling is not a fight in the dog world, it's an argument. A real dog fight is much quieter normally, and there is almost always bleeding. Dogs can't write letters or sue each other, they generally are masters of peaceful coexistence, but in some situations, the only way to settle a disagreement is with a tussle. If nobody is bleeding, and nobody is bullying, I generally believe in leaving well enough alone. However, while the scuffle doesn't necessarily mean anything at all, your dog is reaching maturity, and some dogs just stop being as easily sociable with other dogs when that happens, so it's certainly possible that dog park time is over.
posted by biscotti at 6:58 PM on January 12, 2011

Just to clarify, we're not in a dog park. Before 9 a.m. and after 9 p.m., dogs can be off leash in Riverside Park in Manhattan-- it's a big park on the Hudson River, not a dog park.
posted by thinkpiece at 7:01 PM on January 12, 2011

Whenever dog training questions come up, I have the same advice. Please read Karen Pryor's books on dog training and google "clicker training". Punitive methods of training do work -- but at some cost to your relationship with your dog. Clicker training keeps things positive and has incredible and *fast* results.

There are ample resources on clicker training that will help you with this particular set of issues.
posted by driley at 7:17 PM on January 12, 2011

Even if it's not officially called a "dog park", dogs running off leash together is dogs running off leash together, and he may just no longer be suited to running loose with this pack of dogs, is all I'm saying.
posted by biscotti at 7:02 AM on January 13, 2011

fshgrl: "My dog is two and had recently started doing a lot of the same stuff. One thing that helps a lot is that knows a command "on by" from skiing that means go past stuff without stopping. Useful command."

We use "walk on" in that scenario. I also find "leave it!" to be useful with a large dog, for everything from tasty garbage to chihuahuas. (We save "no" for serious situations.)
posted by DarlingBri at 3:00 PM on January 13, 2011