"friends +"
January 7, 2011 12:16 PM Subscribe
whats your 'friends with benefits' experience? do you recommend it?
asking out of curiosity.
i hear this phrase more and more these days among my friends who are friends with each other and apparently having a lot of sex together.
they're not couples, not dating, and dont have any intention of getting married. They're simply people who've known each other for a decade in some cases, and one day decided to just have sex with each other since both were in a dating dry spell.
is that a good or bad idea? How'd it work out for you? did it kill the friendship? Was it awkward? Is it possible to develop sexual attraction with people you've known and trusted as a friend for that long? but still dont want to date-date? Just to get your rocks off once in a while?
I know anything is possible in human behaviour; wondering about your friends-with-benefits outcome.
asking out of curiosity.
i hear this phrase more and more these days among my friends who are friends with each other and apparently having a lot of sex together.
they're not couples, not dating, and dont have any intention of getting married. They're simply people who've known each other for a decade in some cases, and one day decided to just have sex with each other since both were in a dating dry spell.
is that a good or bad idea? How'd it work out for you? did it kill the friendship? Was it awkward? Is it possible to develop sexual attraction with people you've known and trusted as a friend for that long? but still dont want to date-date? Just to get your rocks off once in a while?
I know anything is possible in human behaviour; wondering about your friends-with-benefits outcome.
Response by poster: lol griphus, yes i remember the old show. but are you speaking from a "friends+" experience? if so, would love to hear more details on what the monsters were in your case.
posted by jak68 at 12:25 PM on January 7, 2011
posted by jak68 at 12:25 PM on January 7, 2011
This seems chatty, but anyway.
I've done this three times. Once it was terrible - totally alienated a whole group of friends, killed the friendship with the guy and meant that even over a decade later we can't socialize together despite having a big friend overlap. Another time it was heading down the road to terrible, but then I moved away. The third (actually, the first) time it was lovely, but it was long distance and we would just hook up sometimes when in each other's town. He was a super good guy but so not my type for a relationship. The latter man, I'm still friends with, nearly 15 years later. He flew half way around the world to come to my wedding and I'm contemplating doing the same for his later this year.
posted by gaspode at 12:25 PM on January 7, 2011
I've done this three times. Once it was terrible - totally alienated a whole group of friends, killed the friendship with the guy and meant that even over a decade later we can't socialize together despite having a big friend overlap. Another time it was heading down the road to terrible, but then I moved away. The third (actually, the first) time it was lovely, but it was long distance and we would just hook up sometimes when in each other's town. He was a super good guy but so not my type for a relationship. The latter man, I'm still friends with, nearly 15 years later. He flew half way around the world to come to my wedding and I'm contemplating doing the same for his later this year.
posted by gaspode at 12:25 PM on January 7, 2011
I am a terrible FWB--I simply cannot do casual sex. I get attached too easily.
posted by mollymayhem at 12:28 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by mollymayhem at 12:28 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, the metaphor is a little loose, but the "monsters" are feelings of genuine attraction that may (and in my opinion usually will) develop asymmetrically. If you can both deal with that, fine, go right ahead. Anecdata, however, holds that most people -- especially the people on the developed-feelings end -- will not have the self-awareness, desire, whatever, to extricate themselves from a situation which may be hazardous to their psyche.
posted by griphus at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by griphus at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2011 [7 favorites]
I've done this twice. Once it was the worst idea ever and so incredibly awful.
The other time I did it was actually quite nice. The thing is, we weren't really "friends" before hand (in the same social circle, but not really close), and then didn't really remain friends afterwards, mostly due to him moving out of state. I still have a lot of goodwill toward this guy, but wonder if I still would had we been closer before and after.
posted by Ideal Impulse at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2011
The other time I did it was actually quite nice. The thing is, we weren't really "friends" before hand (in the same social circle, but not really close), and then didn't really remain friends afterwards, mostly due to him moving out of state. I still have a lot of goodwill toward this guy, but wonder if I still would had we been closer before and after.
posted by Ideal Impulse at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2011
asking out of curiosity. ... wondering about your friends-with-benefits outcome.
If you're just curious to hear about people's random experiences, how is this not just chatfilter? If you have a specific problem in your real life that you're trying to solve ("Should I be friends+ with Mary?"), it might help if you'd give us some of the details for context.
posted by John Cohen at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2011
If you're just curious to hear about people's random experiences, how is this not just chatfilter? If you have a specific problem in your real life that you're trying to solve ("Should I be friends+ with Mary?"), it might help if you'd give us some of the details for context.
posted by John Cohen at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2011
Yep. It was fun and we're not doing that any more but we're still friends.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2011
posted by rmd1023 at 12:30 PM on January 7, 2011
Friends with Bennies is the great creation of my generation. It is of course the most perfect of all relationships. You don't want to deal with all the annoying stuff about being with someone, don't want to put emotions on the line, want to keep your options open? Everybody needs sex, but there are just those times when you really want the easy, don't have to go out and work hard to find some sort of sex you get with an SO but without all the other baggage. Friends with benefits is the answer.
Sure, it takes the right person to be able to pull it off. And it takes honest communication. Don't enter a FWB relationship with your friend that you're actually in love with. That's not how it works. You both need to be easy going about the situation and understand the terms. You don't get to be angry when they fuck someone else or start seeing someone, you don't get to be upset when it fizzles and they don't want to fuck you anymore.
It works if it is, and remains, exactly what it says on the tin. Understand that - and really understand that - and it can be fantastic. I think many people would be happier if they had some sex with their friends.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:31 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sure, it takes the right person to be able to pull it off. And it takes honest communication. Don't enter a FWB relationship with your friend that you're actually in love with. That's not how it works. You both need to be easy going about the situation and understand the terms. You don't get to be angry when they fuck someone else or start seeing someone, you don't get to be upset when it fizzles and they don't want to fuck you anymore.
It works if it is, and remains, exactly what it says on the tin. Understand that - and really understand that - and it can be fantastic. I think many people would be happier if they had some sex with their friends.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:31 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: ok fine not just curious, i have an opportunity for fwb and i'm on the fence.
and now she's going to find this thread when she googles me, i hope you're happy.
posted by jak68 at 12:31 PM on January 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
and now she's going to find this thread when she googles me, i hope you're happy.
posted by jak68 at 12:31 PM on January 7, 2011 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: please continue with your stories cuz i need some data points and ya'll are my best random hive sampling right now.
posted by jak68 at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2011
posted by jak68 at 12:33 PM on January 7, 2011
It's awesome as long as you're not expecting anything more than that to happen. Don't do it with people you're infatuated with or who you want to fall in love with you and you'll be fine. Or who want to fall in love with you.
I think casual sex with aquaintances is a lot easier, but it's also a lot harder if you have sex-related trust issues; friends with benefits is great if you can do it from a place where it's literally a friend who you have sex with without getting attached but it's really awkward when it's with someone who you don't have anything in common with outside of attraction. That's just how it's worked out for me though, YMMV.
It's also a great way to get over people.
posted by NoraReed at 12:34 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think casual sex with aquaintances is a lot easier, but it's also a lot harder if you have sex-related trust issues; friends with benefits is great if you can do it from a place where it's literally a friend who you have sex with without getting attached but it's really awkward when it's with someone who you don't have anything in common with outside of attraction. That's just how it's worked out for me though, YMMV.
It's also a great way to get over people.
posted by NoraReed at 12:34 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I did this once. It didn't last very long and it was... probably not a good idea. On the other hand, it wasn't a disaster. It was quite nice. I don't regret it. And it was also with someone who probably only just merited the description "friend". And I don't see her any more. And I never will again. The fact that we actually had sex has something, not everything, to do with that.
I do not think this would be a good idea with someone who is a real friend in good standing. I have one female friend who I almost had sex with, 25 years ago. As we rode home together in a taxi after a severely drunken and friendly evening involving much heart-opening and wild kissage, and she made it very plain that I would be welcome to stay with her that night, some subconscious alarm bell went off and caused me to exit the taxi at my tube stop, bid her a very fond goodnight and live to not regret the morrow. We have laughed about this evening many times since. We have also, on other drunken occasions, expressed a semi-serious degree of rueful regret that we didn't actually pork each other that night. But we're both old and wise enough to know that had we done that, we wouldn't still be enjoying each other's company 25 years later.
I think that lovers can be friends. But usually they're a different sort of friend to the friends we don't make love to. It's good to keep the two types separate. Things generally seem to work out better that way.
posted by Decani at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2011
I do not think this would be a good idea with someone who is a real friend in good standing. I have one female friend who I almost had sex with, 25 years ago. As we rode home together in a taxi after a severely drunken and friendly evening involving much heart-opening and wild kissage, and she made it very plain that I would be welcome to stay with her that night, some subconscious alarm bell went off and caused me to exit the taxi at my tube stop, bid her a very fond goodnight and live to not regret the morrow. We have laughed about this evening many times since. We have also, on other drunken occasions, expressed a semi-serious degree of rueful regret that we didn't actually pork each other that night. But we're both old and wise enough to know that had we done that, we wouldn't still be enjoying each other's company 25 years later.
I think that lovers can be friends. But usually they're a different sort of friend to the friends we don't make love to. It's good to keep the two types separate. Things generally seem to work out better that way.
posted by Decani at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2011
The advice I give about this situation doesn't change, and here it is.
If you're going to do it - and there really is a lot to recommend it - be absolutely up front from the beginning about what is or is not okay.
Be prepared for it to end poorly. Which is to say, don't expect that it will, but be prepared for the possibility. Maybe even the likelihood, some might say.
There are few principles by which I live all the time and here is one: Don't get into a FWB relationship with someone you genuinely would not want to lose as a friend. Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen, just that it's a fun time but not worth the risk.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
If you're going to do it - and there really is a lot to recommend it - be absolutely up front from the beginning about what is or is not okay.
Be prepared for it to end poorly. Which is to say, don't expect that it will, but be prepared for the possibility. Maybe even the likelihood, some might say.
There are few principles by which I live all the time and here is one: Don't get into a FWB relationship with someone you genuinely would not want to lose as a friend. Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen, just that it's a fun time but not worth the risk.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
Well, a key to this is to have both people on the same page that they are FWB, not anything more. And if feelings change, well. That can be bad.
My first experience with this was great, in progress. Until after telling me he was not involved with another woman, stopped contact with me, and I learned he was married to the woman he'd told me he wasn't involved with. He died a couple of years later. I still miss talking with him, and miss his benefit-less friendship a lot.
My second experience was 7 or so years, rocky, on-off, and he had me thinking he did love me and that we did have a future. And he refrained from telling me about whom he was also involved with, lied when asked directly, cut off contact, and married the woman. I also have strong career ties to him, which created disastrous trouble. We hate one another now.
I also have a strain of HPV that is cancer-causing, and trust me it's from one of these two, probably the second.
So, be sure that you both realize this is a FWB-only, but really ... I echo griphus. I posted here once before that, along the lines of "marriage ruins a great relationship," a relationship can ruin a great friendship. Unattachment for life is looking good to me.
posted by jgirl at 12:37 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
My first experience with this was great, in progress. Until after telling me he was not involved with another woman, stopped contact with me, and I learned he was married to the woman he'd told me he wasn't involved with. He died a couple of years later. I still miss talking with him, and miss his benefit-less friendship a lot.
My second experience was 7 or so years, rocky, on-off, and he had me thinking he did love me and that we did have a future. And he refrained from telling me about whom he was also involved with, lied when asked directly, cut off contact, and married the woman. I also have strong career ties to him, which created disastrous trouble. We hate one another now.
I also have a strain of HPV that is cancer-causing, and trust me it's from one of these two, probably the second.
So, be sure that you both realize this is a FWB-only, but really ... I echo griphus. I posted here once before that, along the lines of "marriage ruins a great relationship," a relationship can ruin a great friendship. Unattachment for life is looking good to me.
posted by jgirl at 12:37 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Some people learn by reading. Few learn by observation. The rest of us have to piss on the electric fence.
I've had many friends do the same, and I've been in a couple FWB relationships. There's benefits and drawbacks. There's awkwardness in any relationship, these are no exception. Lots of people get hurt, some don't.
My most recent FWB relationship. Girl I met at work, we had been friends for over a year. We would go out for drinks outside of work, but it was strictly platonic to start with. She had a boyfriend, neither of us were sexually interested in each other. I was catching some one night stands here and there.
She broke up with her boyfriend, and a couple of months later we were out and she brought up FWB. Being a heterosexual male with few responsibilities and a quick acting lower brain, we agreed with a few groundrules. A couple times a week max. If someone falls in love you have to admit it. She agreed to take her birth control religiously, and the big A was on the table if it came down to it. If either person isn't monogamous, let the other know (safety sake only). It ends at anytime by either person with no questions.
We managed to work it out for about five months. No scares, and kept the stress off for both of us. She ended it when she met a new boyfriend.
About five months later, she had found a new job. We hadn't talked to each other much since the FWB was over. I was at work one day, on break at the smoke shack. About 10 other people were there, talking as normal. One guy said to another "did you know that FWB is pregnant?" I about shat myself right there. "No, I didn't" says guy two. "Who is the father?"
"FWB's new boyfriend," says guy one. Guy three: "thank god it wasn't me. If it was she'd be about eight months in by now." Guy four: "Same here." Guy Five: "Are you kidding me?"
During our time she lied about other partners. Turns out all ten of us were celebrating our non-fatherhood within that one cigarette. I was at the clinic that night getting tested. Was I hurt? Not really. Was it awkward? I think that's a yes. Did the attraction bloom? Not really. Was it all bad? Nope. Did it kill the friendship? Ultimately yes.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2011 [25 favorites]
I've had many friends do the same, and I've been in a couple FWB relationships. There's benefits and drawbacks. There's awkwardness in any relationship, these are no exception. Lots of people get hurt, some don't.
My most recent FWB relationship. Girl I met at work, we had been friends for over a year. We would go out for drinks outside of work, but it was strictly platonic to start with. She had a boyfriend, neither of us were sexually interested in each other. I was catching some one night stands here and there.
She broke up with her boyfriend, and a couple of months later we were out and she brought up FWB. Being a heterosexual male with few responsibilities and a quick acting lower brain, we agreed with a few groundrules. A couple times a week max. If someone falls in love you have to admit it. She agreed to take her birth control religiously, and the big A was on the table if it came down to it. If either person isn't monogamous, let the other know (safety sake only). It ends at anytime by either person with no questions.
We managed to work it out for about five months. No scares, and kept the stress off for both of us. She ended it when she met a new boyfriend.
About five months later, she had found a new job. We hadn't talked to each other much since the FWB was over. I was at work one day, on break at the smoke shack. About 10 other people were there, talking as normal. One guy said to another "did you know that FWB is pregnant?" I about shat myself right there. "No, I didn't" says guy two. "Who is the father?"
"FWB's new boyfriend," says guy one. Guy three: "thank god it wasn't me. If it was she'd be about eight months in by now." Guy four: "Same here." Guy Five: "Are you kidding me?"
During our time she lied about other partners. Turns out all ten of us were celebrating our non-fatherhood within that one cigarette. I was at the clinic that night getting tested. Was I hurt? Not really. Was it awkward? I think that's a yes. Did the attraction bloom? Not really. Was it all bad? Nope. Did it kill the friendship? Ultimately yes.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2011 [25 favorites]
If you can handle the fact it's not going any further than FWB, and are just missing the physical intimacy, then yeah, do it.
My best experience had its pros and cons - like he only seemed to be interested in hanging out with me when he's single and not getting laid, and we only ever hang out just the two of us, never in the company of others. We kept eachother separate from the rest of our social lives. But yeah, in a dry spell it's good to have someone around who will let you jump their bones and cuddle with afterwards, without the awkward walk of shame the next morning or the anxiety of "gee, will this lead to something more?".
posted by lizbunny at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2011
My best experience had its pros and cons - like he only seemed to be interested in hanging out with me when he's single and not getting laid, and we only ever hang out just the two of us, never in the company of others. We kept eachother separate from the rest of our social lives. But yeah, in a dry spell it's good to have someone around who will let you jump their bones and cuddle with afterwards, without the awkward walk of shame the next morning or the anxiety of "gee, will this lead to something more?".
posted by lizbunny at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2011
I've done it twice.
The first time it wasn't with someone I had an established friendship with. Eventually she started dating another guy, at which point we realized that we really liked each other and wanted to have a normal bf/gf relationship, which we did.
The second time it was someone I'd been friends with for awhile and it ended when she started dating someone else. We went back to being just friends and it's been totally fine.
I don't think there's anything wrong with FWB, but it's important to be clear about what the agreement is so that people can go in with appropriate expectations.
posted by Cogito at 12:42 PM on January 7, 2011
The first time it wasn't with someone I had an established friendship with. Eventually she started dating another guy, at which point we realized that we really liked each other and wanted to have a normal bf/gf relationship, which we did.
The second time it was someone I'd been friends with for awhile and it ended when she started dating someone else. We went back to being just friends and it's been totally fine.
I don't think there's anything wrong with FWB, but it's important to be clear about what the agreement is so that people can go in with appropriate expectations.
posted by Cogito at 12:42 PM on January 7, 2011
The key in my experience if you can successfully draw a bright line between love and sex. As a straight guy I've had an easy time telling the difference between the two and so have my partners.
My current friend+ is the female equiv of me and likes a good fuck every once in a while. I do sometimes wonder if there's more to it but aside from hanging out and the sex, we are not compatible. We are under the understanding that the sex stops if one of us start a relationship.
I've read horror stories but so far I have been lucky.
posted by birdherder at 12:50 PM on January 7, 2011
My current friend+ is the female equiv of me and likes a good fuck every once in a while. I do sometimes wonder if there's more to it but aside from hanging out and the sex, we are not compatible. We are under the understanding that the sex stops if one of us start a relationship.
I've read horror stories but so far I have been lucky.
posted by birdherder at 12:50 PM on January 7, 2011
My data points: my first FWB sort of relationship went horribly because there was a lot of emotional attachment (from both sides) and he fundamentally had issues with non-monogamy and such. Continuing to be friends afterward was not always the easiest because we were still attracted to each other and he didn't want to face that. I've had other friends/acquaintances that I've shared benefits with that have gone much better because they were comfortable with the non-monogamy/casualness and didn't need anything more.
My conclusions have been that FWB works best when everyone's clear and comfortable on the conditions and isn't looking for a primary/romantic/whatever relationship.
posted by radioaction at 12:53 PM on January 7, 2011
My conclusions have been that FWB works best when everyone's clear and comfortable on the conditions and isn't looking for a primary/romantic/whatever relationship.
posted by radioaction at 12:53 PM on January 7, 2011
I have had a number of experiences with this. For reference, I approach sex and love as very different things and have no issues with casual sex.
First time: He developed feelings, and I really liked him so we turned it into a relationship that lasted for a bit but ended spectacularly badly for a number of reasons. He is not a casual sex person (though didn't know it when we started the FWB).
Second time: We've only hooked up a few times, were mostly never in the same city as one another, our friendship continues though now we're both dating others. Partner was a casual sex person.
Third time: Hooked up multiple times over a few months, friendship ended as I started projecting dissatisfaction with bedroom performance on friendship. Partner was a casual sex person.
Fourth time: Hooked up regularly, about 1x/week or more, and, despite us both being robots and declaring repeatedly this was only casual, after about a half-year feelings developed so now we're dating. Go figure.
So from this experience (and those I know who've done the FWB) here is how you make it a success:
- Be super, super-OK with casual sex
- Do not expect or hope for a relationship, ever
- Do not make the pre-hookup time too date-like. SERIOUSLY DON'T DO THIS
- If the other person starts complaining about "feeling like a whore" or something END IT. Yes, this sounds cruel. But if you want to feel like more than a hook-up FWB should not be the answer, as it will only get messy.
- Do not hook up more than once every few weeks, preferably less
If you end up hooking up more frequently that, make things date-like, cuddle more than post-sex, OR basically act during the hook-up in any way different than you would with someone you just met at a bar and are taking home for the night, eventually, sometime, someone will develop feelings. These could be romantic feelings, or resentment or contempt. Guaranteed, do not fool yourself. And if you start doing them because you hope a relationship will develop tell the other person right away.
posted by Anonymous at 12:54 PM on January 7, 2011
First time: He developed feelings, and I really liked him so we turned it into a relationship that lasted for a bit but ended spectacularly badly for a number of reasons. He is not a casual sex person (though didn't know it when we started the FWB).
Second time: We've only hooked up a few times, were mostly never in the same city as one another, our friendship continues though now we're both dating others. Partner was a casual sex person.
Third time: Hooked up multiple times over a few months, friendship ended as I started projecting dissatisfaction with bedroom performance on friendship. Partner was a casual sex person.
Fourth time: Hooked up regularly, about 1x/week or more, and, despite us both being robots and declaring repeatedly this was only casual, after about a half-year feelings developed so now we're dating. Go figure.
So from this experience (and those I know who've done the FWB) here is how you make it a success:
- Be super, super-OK with casual sex
- Do not expect or hope for a relationship, ever
- Do not make the pre-hookup time too date-like. SERIOUSLY DON'T DO THIS
- If the other person starts complaining about "feeling like a whore" or something END IT. Yes, this sounds cruel. But if you want to feel like more than a hook-up FWB should not be the answer, as it will only get messy.
- Do not hook up more than once every few weeks, preferably less
If you end up hooking up more frequently that, make things date-like, cuddle more than post-sex, OR basically act during the hook-up in any way different than you would with someone you just met at a bar and are taking home for the night, eventually, sometime, someone will develop feelings. These could be romantic feelings, or resentment or contempt. Guaranteed, do not fool yourself. And if you start doing them because you hope a relationship will develop tell the other person right away.
posted by Anonymous at 12:54 PM on January 7, 2011
I think the biggest concern is whether you view the other person as a once and/or future partner in a relationship. This is not to say that your views couldn't change during your period as FWB, but you bring a lot more baggage if this is, say, following up a romantic relationship that technically ended (recently or not) or if you're hoping to spin the FWB situation into more.
Both of those scenarios fall into what FAMOUS MONSTER described above, i.e. being absolutely up front about what is or is not okay. Here's a hint: usually SOMETHING is not okay.
The closest I've come (huh huh) was when I broke up with a partner just past the year mark but stretched out the aforementioned benefits for another six months. Oddly enough, we came to the conclusion that we cared about each other and had great chemistry... but we'd never really been friends.
Never forget that you might not be in a capital-R Relationship, but if you benefit from said friend more than once, you have a relationship nonetheless. Treat it accordingly. As in any relationship, use the Scout rule: leave the site better than you found it.
posted by Madamina at 12:55 PM on January 7, 2011
Both of those scenarios fall into what FAMOUS MONSTER described above, i.e. being absolutely up front about what is or is not okay. Here's a hint: usually SOMETHING is not okay.
The closest I've come (huh huh) was when I broke up with a partner just past the year mark but stretched out the aforementioned benefits for another six months. Oddly enough, we came to the conclusion that we cared about each other and had great chemistry... but we'd never really been friends.
Never forget that you might not be in a capital-R Relationship, but if you benefit from said friend more than once, you have a relationship nonetheless. Treat it accordingly. As in any relationship, use the Scout rule: leave the site better than you found it.
posted by Madamina at 12:55 PM on January 7, 2011
Response by poster: >As in any relationship, use the Scout rule: leave the site better than you found it.
sage advice
posted by jak68 at 1:03 PM on January 7, 2011 [4 favorites]
sage advice
posted by jak68 at 1:03 PM on January 7, 2011 [4 favorites]
The key in my experience if you can successfully draw a bright line between love and sex. As a straight guy I've had an easy time telling the difference between the two and so have my partner
I think this is it right here. It's not about what you can delineate (as in, discuss OUT LOUD) with your friend. It's about what kind of person you are, and how well you know yourself. If you know yourself well enough to know that you probably can make this distinction with ease, that's a plus (though you might be wrong). If your partner knows him/herself similarly well enough to make that distinction, that's a plus (though he/she might be wrong). If you two know each other well enough to believe this is safe (or conversely, are good at NOT becoming too familiar) then that's a plus. Take those factors, put them on the roulette wheel, give it a spin, and... you get what you get.
I have several friends like this. A couple of them are people I am genuinely close with, a couple of them are people I am deliberately NOT close with. Sometimes months or years drift by without anything happening, or with no contact of any kind. Sometimes one or the other of us lets the other know that it's time to end that aspect of the friendship. I've had some disasters, but not many. Disasters are a possible byproduct of human interaction, so it comes with the territory. I'd like to think I'm a fairly safe person to be "friends +" with, but like I said, in the end there are lots of variables that keep it from ever being a sure thing.
posted by hermitosis at 1:04 PM on January 7, 2011
I think this is it right here. It's not about what you can delineate (as in, discuss OUT LOUD) with your friend. It's about what kind of person you are, and how well you know yourself. If you know yourself well enough to know that you probably can make this distinction with ease, that's a plus (though you might be wrong). If your partner knows him/herself similarly well enough to make that distinction, that's a plus (though he/she might be wrong). If you two know each other well enough to believe this is safe (or conversely, are good at NOT becoming too familiar) then that's a plus. Take those factors, put them on the roulette wheel, give it a spin, and... you get what you get.
I have several friends like this. A couple of them are people I am genuinely close with, a couple of them are people I am deliberately NOT close with. Sometimes months or years drift by without anything happening, or with no contact of any kind. Sometimes one or the other of us lets the other know that it's time to end that aspect of the friendship. I've had some disasters, but not many. Disasters are a possible byproduct of human interaction, so it comes with the territory. I'd like to think I'm a fairly safe person to be "friends +" with, but like I said, in the end there are lots of variables that keep it from ever being a sure thing.
posted by hermitosis at 1:04 PM on January 7, 2011
I'm not that into FWBs, but my advice would be twofold: 1) don't FWB within your circle of friends; 2) you should be prepared for it to end when one person develops feelings, possibly you.
posted by rhizome at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2011
posted by rhizome at 1:06 PM on January 7, 2011
I've had a FWB relationship with someone I've known for almost 20 years. When we (more often her) were involved, then obviously the "benefits" were not appropriate and it was "just friends". That has changed many times over the years. There was never any cheating (far as I know) or ill-will (again, as far as I know) between former or current lovers because of this. She's one of my best friends. It seems natural to me.
However, this may be an exception to the rule. In a tight knit group of friends, I could see where this would indeed become a serious issue. As with most things, honesty is usually the best policy. As long as you operate under a mutually agreed upon policy, there's no reason such a relationship can't last for as long as its beneficial to those involved.
posted by elendil71 at 1:10 PM on January 7, 2011
However, this may be an exception to the rule. In a tight knit group of friends, I could see where this would indeed become a serious issue. As with most things, honesty is usually the best policy. As long as you operate under a mutually agreed upon policy, there's no reason such a relationship can't last for as long as its beneficial to those involved.
posted by elendil71 at 1:10 PM on January 7, 2011
I have done this a few times: typically with women I had formerly been crushing on but was entirely post-crush when it happened. First time I was in a black black mood for several days due to external unrelated issues and had a very dim view of most of my friends. One friend, unconnected to my mess, invited me over to bake cookies with her. It worked out nicely for a few months, until I pushed it too much by going on vacation with her... two weeks together was several days too much and we have not seen each other since then, by her choice. In retrospect, I had fallen for her all over again and she did not want that. I regret that this made her uncomfortable: she is the only friend I ever really lost whom I still miss.
The most recent time was with someone I had known for decades and it was a spur-of-the-moment thing, when I invited her half in jest to a remote and romantic location. She said yes and we spent a torrid and amazing weekend together, before returning to our separate cities. We are still close and really nothing is different from how it was before. I think she is wonderful, but I have for many years, and the tiny frisson that the shared experience that our memorable collisions added is just spice.
In between those two, there a few others with varying degrees of success (both in the being naked part and the post-naked part).
I reject the notion that you have to draw a categorical distinction between friends and lovers. That speaks to me of insecurity and possessiveness, two things which do not make anyone better for their possession. As long as everyone involved knows what the boundaries are, there should be no worries.
Anyway, your specific questions were:
How'd it work out for you?
In general, fine, as above. Only one real casualty: the first FWB, and to some degree my heart when that happened.
did it kill the friendship?
For the most part, no. Assuming no coercion and everyone goes into it clear-headed, then it is something that does not happen unless both parties want it, and if both do, I don't see why it is a problem.
Was it awkward?
The first time can be, as with any first encounter.
Is it possible to develop sexual attraction with people you've known and trusted as a friend for that long?
I am an outlier here, but of course. I have never gotten the knack for meeting someone at a bar or a party and going home with her. Maybe it is a holdover from some romantic early notions, but I have little interest in shagging anyone I do not really like already, and how the hell do you get that with someone you have known an hour? Only once in my life have I gotten involved with someone I had known less than a year, and that was a disaster.
but still dont want to date-date?
Yep.
Just to get your rocks off once in a while?
Meh. This is a time issue. At eighteen, if I had had any womenfolk in my life who were up for a FWB arrangement, I would have leaped at the chance. Quarter-century later, it is less of an urgent drive.
Look, the conventional wisdom is that this situation always ends badly, but this seems to me because Everyone Knows it always ends badly. I might be blessed with some unusually open-minded women as friends, but I have slept with a few of them without the sky falling.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:15 PM on January 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
The most recent time was with someone I had known for decades and it was a spur-of-the-moment thing, when I invited her half in jest to a remote and romantic location. She said yes and we spent a torrid and amazing weekend together, before returning to our separate cities. We are still close and really nothing is different from how it was before. I think she is wonderful, but I have for many years, and the tiny frisson that the shared experience that our memorable collisions added is just spice.
In between those two, there a few others with varying degrees of success (both in the being naked part and the post-naked part).
I reject the notion that you have to draw a categorical distinction between friends and lovers. That speaks to me of insecurity and possessiveness, two things which do not make anyone better for their possession. As long as everyone involved knows what the boundaries are, there should be no worries.
Anyway, your specific questions were:
How'd it work out for you?
In general, fine, as above. Only one real casualty: the first FWB, and to some degree my heart when that happened.
did it kill the friendship?
For the most part, no. Assuming no coercion and everyone goes into it clear-headed, then it is something that does not happen unless both parties want it, and if both do, I don't see why it is a problem.
Was it awkward?
The first time can be, as with any first encounter.
Is it possible to develop sexual attraction with people you've known and trusted as a friend for that long?
I am an outlier here, but of course. I have never gotten the knack for meeting someone at a bar or a party and going home with her. Maybe it is a holdover from some romantic early notions, but I have little interest in shagging anyone I do not really like already, and how the hell do you get that with someone you have known an hour? Only once in my life have I gotten involved with someone I had known less than a year, and that was a disaster.
but still dont want to date-date?
Yep.
Just to get your rocks off once in a while?
Meh. This is a time issue. At eighteen, if I had had any womenfolk in my life who were up for a FWB arrangement, I would have leaped at the chance. Quarter-century later, it is less of an urgent drive.
Look, the conventional wisdom is that this situation always ends badly, but this seems to me because Everyone Knows it always ends badly. I might be blessed with some unusually open-minded women as friends, but I have slept with a few of them without the sky falling.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:15 PM on January 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
Here's my theory about friends with benefits: There's a (sorta) linear spectrum. On the far left, you have zero intimacy/attachment. This is where you put all the strangers and people you've never met. On the far right, you have maximum intimacy/attachment/commitment. This is where life commitments and all that jazz goes.
A friend with benefits is the very narrow window that *sometimes* exists for two people between "friend" and "relationship". You have to like somebody enough to want to sleep with them, but not enough to want to be in a relationship with them, for whatever reasons. It's usually an unsustainable position, because you both have to be in that window and you both have to stay there. Of course, having sex makes that really, really tricky! Once you have sex, the dynamic changes and you're bouncing off each other with expectations, worry, sexual energy, and all sorts of stuff in the mix. It's easy to tip the other one right out of the window because everything is heightened. You have sex and you worry that they're getting too attached, so you ease off. They sense that and the whole thing falls apart. Or the other way around. Whatever. Point is, it's untenable and you both have to know and accept that going in.
Two more things:
1. This is part of why communication is critical, necessary, mandatory, etc.
2. Do not enter into a fwb situation under any other circumstances (ie. you're in love with the person; they're in love with you; you don't actually want to sleep with them (but you do because, F if I know...); you don't want to talk about it; they don't want to talk about it; and on and on.
Be honest (starting with yourself and spreading outward) and wise luck with whatever experiences you end up having!
posted by iamkimiam at 1:21 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
A friend with benefits is the very narrow window that *sometimes* exists for two people between "friend" and "relationship". You have to like somebody enough to want to sleep with them, but not enough to want to be in a relationship with them, for whatever reasons. It's usually an unsustainable position, because you both have to be in that window and you both have to stay there. Of course, having sex makes that really, really tricky! Once you have sex, the dynamic changes and you're bouncing off each other with expectations, worry, sexual energy, and all sorts of stuff in the mix. It's easy to tip the other one right out of the window because everything is heightened. You have sex and you worry that they're getting too attached, so you ease off. They sense that and the whole thing falls apart. Or the other way around. Whatever. Point is, it's untenable and you both have to know and accept that going in.
Two more things:
1. This is part of why communication is critical, necessary, mandatory, etc.
2. Do not enter into a fwb situation under any other circumstances (ie. you're in love with the person; they're in love with you; you don't actually want to sleep with them (but you do because, F if I know...); you don't want to talk about it; they don't want to talk about it; and on and on.
Be honest (starting with yourself and spreading outward) and wise luck with whatever experiences you end up having!
posted by iamkimiam at 1:21 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I did this a lot when I was younger. I guess it fulfilled my desire for a whole lot of sex. I guess it partly filled the gulf between lighthearted friendships and meaningful relationships, at times when there wasn't anyone around who I wanted a meaningful relationship with. And I guess it gave me some consideration and skill in the sack that I wouldn't have had otherwise. I mean, you don't want to disappoint a mate, right..
But then I had a couple of really meaningful relationships. The kind that had it all. Friendship; easy comfort in each other's company and arms; desire; simple and savage joy in one another's company; shared passion and passions; common beliefs and commitment to cause; complete and total fascination with how each other worked - to the point where we were ending each other's sentences and knowing what to cook for dinner without even asking; and attachment and a desire to protect so strong that I'd sometimes think "shit this must be what it's like to have a sister" (before moving on to EWWWWW!!!!!).
They ended. It still hurts. There's still a little pair of empty spaces in my soul where those women once dwelled.
When I have casual sex now, it isn't quite about things not quite measuring up to those relationships..
Except that it is.
I just want more. Even flings with friends who I love and trust and am completely comfortable with feel like they can't really be what I want. And it feels like having them takes just a little bit away from the friendship. Because I can't help making the comparison to something that made me so much more.. something that made me whole.
That's my experience anyway. FWB worked when I was young and shallow and callow.
But then I grew up.
posted by Ahab at 1:27 PM on January 7, 2011 [8 favorites]
But then I had a couple of really meaningful relationships. The kind that had it all. Friendship; easy comfort in each other's company and arms; desire; simple and savage joy in one another's company; shared passion and passions; common beliefs and commitment to cause; complete and total fascination with how each other worked - to the point where we were ending each other's sentences and knowing what to cook for dinner without even asking; and attachment and a desire to protect so strong that I'd sometimes think "shit this must be what it's like to have a sister" (before moving on to EWWWWW!!!!!).
They ended. It still hurts. There's still a little pair of empty spaces in my soul where those women once dwelled.
When I have casual sex now, it isn't quite about things not quite measuring up to those relationships..
Except that it is.
I just want more. Even flings with friends who I love and trust and am completely comfortable with feel like they can't really be what I want. And it feels like having them takes just a little bit away from the friendship. Because I can't help making the comparison to something that made me so much more.. something that made me whole.
That's my experience anyway. FWB worked when I was young and shallow and callow.
But then I grew up.
posted by Ahab at 1:27 PM on January 7, 2011 [8 favorites]
There's been lots of science, some of it dubious, about the effects of Oxytocin and it's influence on hook up relationships.
I wouldn't draw any general conclusions other than to observe that in pursuing this you are messing with your brain chemistry. Don't do it if you or your friend are not in good places mentally and emotionally.
posted by cross_impact at 1:44 PM on January 7, 2011
I wouldn't draw any general conclusions other than to observe that in pursuing this you are messing with your brain chemistry. Don't do it if you or your friend are not in good places mentally and emotionally.
posted by cross_impact at 1:44 PM on January 7, 2011
I haven't had problems with it. That is to say, as far as I know, nobody got hurt, and the relationships didn't take any turns that they wouldn't have naturally taken anyway. (Am I still friends with all of them? No. Would I be anyway? No.)
It usually happens when I'm sexually attracted to a friend but I know the relationship wouldn't work for whatever reason. So, getting attached isn't a problem, because I already know it's not where I want to be.
There are people who I've decided NOT to go that route with, but I guess mainly because I just wasn't attracted enough to them.
And you don't want to be in a situation where you really ARE interested in someone, and all they can offer you is a friends-with-benefits situation, because that's all you're ever going to get from them, and that WILL hurt in the end.
posted by iguanapolitico at 1:45 PM on January 7, 2011
It usually happens when I'm sexually attracted to a friend but I know the relationship wouldn't work for whatever reason. So, getting attached isn't a problem, because I already know it's not where I want to be.
There are people who I've decided NOT to go that route with, but I guess mainly because I just wasn't attracted enough to them.
And you don't want to be in a situation where you really ARE interested in someone, and all they can offer you is a friends-with-benefits situation, because that's all you're ever going to get from them, and that WILL hurt in the end.
posted by iguanapolitico at 1:45 PM on January 7, 2011
I've had some great friends with benefits experiences. What's important to making them successful -- for me -- is that the sex truly be casual. To me, that means that the sex doesn't change the relationship. If the sex is fun and delicious and doesn't make me long to spend more time with him, then it works.
It's never worked well for me in situations where there was a sense of longing on my part, or a secret (or not-so-secret) part of my heart that wanted it to be more. The moment I realize that's happening, it's important for me to say so, and if the desire is shared, switch to dating, and if it's not, go back to just being friends. Both of these moves have worked fine for me, but I could see it being painful in the latter case if I didn't catch it soon enough!
And, of course, emotions can't be ruled by intellect. So I'm always aware that in situations like this, there's no way to guarantee myself (or that my friend can guarantee me) that feelings won't change. So I only do this sort of thing with people who I believe to be genuine and compassionate people who can handle complications with care.
posted by rosa at 1:49 PM on January 7, 2011
It's never worked well for me in situations where there was a sense of longing on my part, or a secret (or not-so-secret) part of my heart that wanted it to be more. The moment I realize that's happening, it's important for me to say so, and if the desire is shared, switch to dating, and if it's not, go back to just being friends. Both of these moves have worked fine for me, but I could see it being painful in the latter case if I didn't catch it soon enough!
And, of course, emotions can't be ruled by intellect. So I'm always aware that in situations like this, there's no way to guarantee myself (or that my friend can guarantee me) that feelings won't change. So I only do this sort of thing with people who I believe to be genuine and compassionate people who can handle complications with care.
posted by rosa at 1:49 PM on January 7, 2011
Depends a lot on your age, I think. I was more okay with casual sex when I was in my early 20s. It seemed liberated and adventurous then. But even then it wasn't what I really wanted and I only did it a couple of times. No one got hurt emotionally or physically.
When I was older and in serious relationship mode, I had a couple of misunderstandings where I thought I was dating someone and he thought we were just hooking up. These were singularly awful experiences and I felt used. This has also happened to so many of my friends that it can't be an accident. People sometimes pretend they're into you just to get laid, and others pretend they're into casual sex in the hopes that physical intimacy will make the other person get into them.
STDs are another consideration. I think casual sex is more trouble than it's worth.
posted by xenophile at 2:08 PM on January 7, 2011
When I was older and in serious relationship mode, I had a couple of misunderstandings where I thought I was dating someone and he thought we were just hooking up. These were singularly awful experiences and I felt used. This has also happened to so many of my friends that it can't be an accident. People sometimes pretend they're into you just to get laid, and others pretend they're into casual sex in the hopes that physical intimacy will make the other person get into them.
STDs are another consideration. I think casual sex is more trouble than it's worth.
posted by xenophile at 2:08 PM on January 7, 2011
I've had pretty good luck with it in the past. One of my ex-FWB has been one of my closest friends for almost a decade now: we've dated, we've been just friends, we've been friends +, we've been mad at each other for months - we joke that we've done everything except live together or get married. The benefits part ended a couple of years ago and I don't think it will restart; he's got somebody serious in his life now and that's awesome. I also, like ahab, grew up and sex outside a relationship isn't something I need to explore any further. Been there, done that, put the T-shirt into a keepsake box in the back of the closet. It's just no longer worth it to me.
It's difficult to keep one person from falling for the other and when that happens it can get sticky and awful, at least for a while. Every situation and every person is different though and if you're both on the same page and both honest, upfront and communicating, I think FWB can be great for everybody concerned.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:10 PM on January 7, 2011
It's difficult to keep one person from falling for the other and when that happens it can get sticky and awful, at least for a while. Every situation and every person is different though and if you're both on the same page and both honest, upfront and communicating, I think FWB can be great for everybody concerned.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:10 PM on January 7, 2011
This was a friend's FWB relationship; he and this girl were very good friends, eventually became FWB when neither of them had anything going. Not really any complications, petered out naturally when she moved.
But.
For him, FWB was yet another way of avoiding relationships and intimacy. He wants to get married, have kids, be a family, but he's too gun-shy about romantic relationships to make any progress in that direction. FWB was a way for him to avoid dealing with that, which still getting some emotional closeness. He was very careful to hold her at arm's length and make sure it was just a physical relationship, avoiding all emotional intimacy that went beyond friendship.
She got married a couple years after their thing, and he was actually FURIOUS with her and is still mad 10 years later; I think he thought she would be hanging around unless and until he decided he was ready for intimacy, at which point she would be his easiest option since they already had the "friends" part down and had already had the "sex" part too. He never acknowledged her wedding, which apparently hurt her feelings (I heard through the grapevine), since she thought they were friends, and never mentions her anymore except to bitch about how DARE she get married.
So don't be that dude.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:12 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
But.
For him, FWB was yet another way of avoiding relationships and intimacy. He wants to get married, have kids, be a family, but he's too gun-shy about romantic relationships to make any progress in that direction. FWB was a way for him to avoid dealing with that, which still getting some emotional closeness. He was very careful to hold her at arm's length and make sure it was just a physical relationship, avoiding all emotional intimacy that went beyond friendship.
She got married a couple years after their thing, and he was actually FURIOUS with her and is still mad 10 years later; I think he thought she would be hanging around unless and until he decided he was ready for intimacy, at which point she would be his easiest option since they already had the "friends" part down and had already had the "sex" part too. He never acknowledged her wedding, which apparently hurt her feelings (I heard through the grapevine), since she thought they were friends, and never mentions her anymore except to bitch about how DARE she get married.
So don't be that dude.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:12 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Based on two or three quasi-attempts I've made at this, it takes a lot of self-knowledge on both your parts, and a lot of honest communication, and a lot of self-reflection as things progress. Because it's easy to tell yourselves and each other that "no, really, this is no strings attached and we're totally cool and that's awesome," but if one of you is actually secretly wanting something more, and it doesn't happen, that's when things get bad.
I had this arrangement once with a guy years ago, but I was the one who secretly wanted more and when he finally said he didn't, we pulled the plug and I was hurt and it sucked; but then a couple years later it came up with the same guy again, and this time I thought long and hard about what I really honestly wanted out of the situation and kept checking in with myself, and things went more smoothly. I also think that there was already a lot of respect for each other to begin with, which goes a long way to keeping communication open and also lessens the risk of hurt feelings on either side.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:20 PM on January 7, 2011
I had this arrangement once with a guy years ago, but I was the one who secretly wanted more and when he finally said he didn't, we pulled the plug and I was hurt and it sucked; but then a couple years later it came up with the same guy again, and this time I thought long and hard about what I really honestly wanted out of the situation and kept checking in with myself, and things went more smoothly. I also think that there was already a lot of respect for each other to begin with, which goes a long way to keeping communication open and also lessens the risk of hurt feelings on either side.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:20 PM on January 7, 2011
Oh, and as to why one would take that step instead of getting back full-on into dating right away:
Take two people who've had shit luck on the dating scene as of late or who've gone through hella breakups, and are thus lacking in confidence. Add the convivial friendship they've already got, and a freaky-ton of random chemistry, and then stir with the self knowledge on both their parts that "but if WE actually dated we'd kill each other within three days". Stir; and what you get is a couple people realizing, "oh, yeah, that's right, it IS possible for other humans to be attracted to me," and then they take that new confidence and can start real dating again.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:25 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Take two people who've had shit luck on the dating scene as of late or who've gone through hella breakups, and are thus lacking in confidence. Add the convivial friendship they've already got, and a freaky-ton of random chemistry, and then stir with the self knowledge on both their parts that "but if WE actually dated we'd kill each other within three days". Stir; and what you get is a couple people realizing, "oh, yeah, that's right, it IS possible for other humans to be attracted to me," and then they take that new confidence and can start real dating again.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:25 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've successfully done it only with people I didn't give a shit about, but in every case it ended much better for me than for them. Like so many other things in life, it works best for whoever is most self-absorbed. And if you're both self-absorbed, then it's pretty much the perfect relationship.
Either way, honesty is good, but just because you're being honest with the other person, doesn't mean they're being honest with you or with themselves. There really no way to follow the Scout rule in this situation.
It could all depend on your age as well. As I've aged, I've become uninterested in emotionless sex. YMMV.
posted by coolguymichael at 2:34 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Either way, honesty is good, but just because you're being honest with the other person, doesn't mean they're being honest with you or with themselves. There really no way to follow the Scout rule in this situation.
It could all depend on your age as well. As I've aged, I've become uninterested in emotionless sex. YMMV.
posted by coolguymichael at 2:34 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I did this only once, but it was great while it lasted because I tend to be very busy, but I'm really not into sex with strangers. Pertinent info:
1) We were a somewhat-random hookup looking specifically to developing an FWB thing
2) We set ground rules and expectations very explicitly before getting started
3) We agreed to always be perfectly honest with each other
I think making sure that you both can be on the level at all times is the most important thing. I'd be afraid to try it with someone I really cared about, though. Personalities really matter with this situation and you've both got to be absolutely positive that both of you can be cool whenever one of you breaks it off.
posted by smirkette at 3:16 PM on January 7, 2011
1) We were a somewhat-random hookup looking specifically to developing an FWB thing
2) We set ground rules and expectations very explicitly before getting started
3) We agreed to always be perfectly honest with each other
I think making sure that you both can be on the level at all times is the most important thing. I'd be afraid to try it with someone I really cared about, though. Personalities really matter with this situation and you've both got to be absolutely positive that both of you can be cool whenever one of you breaks it off.
posted by smirkette at 3:16 PM on January 7, 2011
The only problem with FWB (other than the fact that labels suck) is related to why labels suck: if it an an effort to define something before it happens and demands a lack of change.
Meaning, once you change the terms of your relationship with a person you have changed your relationship with them. This fiction that you can decide that everything between you is cool now but we're just gonna add a sexual component and demand that everything else stays the same.
You couldn't do that if you were deciding you were going to start playing weekly games of 1 on 1 basketball with each other, much less something as intimate as sex.
You add sex into a relationship and things will change. It's intimate contact that we have been socially conditioned to view as an indicator & creator of a strong connection. When you're sleeping with someone you spend more time with them and thereby have more opportunities to bond (and piss each other off).
Which if you say, so? I say, exactly. Unless you've attached yourself to this pre-conceived nothing that nothing's going to change. In which case failure is inevitable because it can't help but change. If you're open to that, great, but be prepared for changes.
posted by phearlez at 3:29 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Meaning, once you change the terms of your relationship with a person you have changed your relationship with them. This fiction that you can decide that everything between you is cool now but we're just gonna add a sexual component and demand that everything else stays the same.
You couldn't do that if you were deciding you were going to start playing weekly games of 1 on 1 basketball with each other, much less something as intimate as sex.
You add sex into a relationship and things will change. It's intimate contact that we have been socially conditioned to view as an indicator & creator of a strong connection. When you're sleeping with someone you spend more time with them and thereby have more opportunities to bond (and piss each other off).
Which if you say, so? I say, exactly. Unless you've attached yourself to this pre-conceived nothing that nothing's going to change. In which case failure is inevitable because it can't help but change. If you're open to that, great, but be prepared for changes.
posted by phearlez at 3:29 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: some real gems of insight here about relationships in general, as well as fwb, thanks for the advice and stories.
well the consensus seems to be that it takes special kind of people in a special kind of relationship to pull this off. In my own potential fwb case, I dont either holds true. So i'm not going to pursue it (and will thereby keep the friend).
btw, keep 'em coming if you've got more.
posted by jak68 at 4:14 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
well the consensus seems to be that it takes special kind of people in a special kind of relationship to pull this off. In my own potential fwb case, I dont either holds true. So i'm not going to pursue it (and will thereby keep the friend).
btw, keep 'em coming if you've got more.
posted by jak68 at 4:14 PM on January 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's been lots of science, some of it dubious, about the effects of Oxytocin and it's influence on hook up relationships.
I wouldn't draw any general conclusions other than to observe that in pursuing this you are messing with your brain chemistry. Don't do it if you or your friend are not in good places mentally and emotionally.
Uh.
Oxytocin is released during masturbation too. And by having pets. You're "messing with brain chemicals" with this in the same way you're messing with brain chemicals by doing anything that changes neurotransmitters in the brain (hint: everything changes neurotransmitters in the brain); the dire pseudoscience surrounding oxytocin and hookup culture is generally coming from the same sex-negative journalists that are terrified of sex bracelets but because of a general cultural misunderstanding of science they get credibility as soon as they start using multisyllabic chemical words. (This isn't to say that reading up on oxytocin won't be interesting or helpful for your sexual and emotional health, because it's absolutely my favorite neurotransmitter, but almost any article with "hook up" in the title is breathless sex-negative pseudoscientific bullshit that's terrified of the kids these days and their rock music and sex bracelets.)
I have chronic depression and find that casual sex is far less emotionally draining or risky than relationships and generally makes me more happy and balanced than dating or masturbation. Unless I'm missing something in the aforelinked Google search about hooking up and oxytocin, there's not some weird connection between hooking up and being mentally/emotionally unstable and how it effects you.
This isn't to say that there won't be a brain chemistry reaction to you having sex that makes it difficult for you to have sex in a casual relationship without getting attached, but that's something you'll have to figure out for yourself through experimentation, which can involve anything from making out to intercourse to whatever fun kinky stuff you're into.
posted by NoraReed at 7:38 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't draw any general conclusions other than to observe that in pursuing this you are messing with your brain chemistry. Don't do it if you or your friend are not in good places mentally and emotionally.
Uh.
Oxytocin is released during masturbation too. And by having pets. You're "messing with brain chemicals" with this in the same way you're messing with brain chemicals by doing anything that changes neurotransmitters in the brain (hint: everything changes neurotransmitters in the brain); the dire pseudoscience surrounding oxytocin and hookup culture is generally coming from the same sex-negative journalists that are terrified of sex bracelets but because of a general cultural misunderstanding of science they get credibility as soon as they start using multisyllabic chemical words. (This isn't to say that reading up on oxytocin won't be interesting or helpful for your sexual and emotional health, because it's absolutely my favorite neurotransmitter, but almost any article with "hook up" in the title is breathless sex-negative pseudoscientific bullshit that's terrified of the kids these days and their rock music and sex bracelets.)
I have chronic depression and find that casual sex is far less emotionally draining or risky than relationships and generally makes me more happy and balanced than dating or masturbation. Unless I'm missing something in the aforelinked Google search about hooking up and oxytocin, there's not some weird connection between hooking up and being mentally/emotionally unstable and how it effects you.
This isn't to say that there won't be a brain chemistry reaction to you having sex that makes it difficult for you to have sex in a casual relationship without getting attached, but that's something you'll have to figure out for yourself through experimentation, which can involve anything from making out to intercourse to whatever fun kinky stuff you're into.
posted by NoraReed at 7:38 PM on January 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
As others have said, it depends on whether or not emotions get in the mix and having mutually agreed upon expectations. I'd probably count two different situations that were FWD. First one, I think the guy saw it as strictly fun and in the end, I got my heart broken. Second time around, while that guy kept talking like it was strictly for fun, he got pretty weird in terms of fishing around with general comments about relationships and stuff. And it's been over for years but I still get these occasional wistful phone or e-mail messages from him that lead me to think in taking his comments at face value, I probably stomped on his emotions (no idea if the emotions were his ego or if he actually had sincere romantic feelings for me).
posted by gov_moonbeam at 2:14 AM on January 8, 2011
posted by gov_moonbeam at 2:14 AM on January 8, 2011
Did it once. We are married now.
posted by murrey at 7:10 AM on January 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by murrey at 7:10 AM on January 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Well, life isn't a TV show but all I have to say is DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!
posted by griphus at 12:20 PM on January 7, 2011 [11 favorites]