New shelter dog is making me bonkers. Help!
December 26, 2010 10:41 PM Subscribe
My new shelter dog is making me bonkers. What do I do?
Three days ago I adopted a very cute, loving, 2 year old male beagle from a local rescue organization. I live with a roommate who has 2 male cats (one adult cat, one three month old kitten). Beagle comes over with his foster parent to check out my apartment and meet the other animals. At that time, beagle was very docile and calm, and didn't display any aggressive behavior towards the cats. I had been looking to adopt a dog for about six months, specifically wanted a beagle because I lived with one for a couple of years in a different roommate situation. Apparently, that beagle was exceptionally out of character for a beagle - quiet, calm, low-key.
Day 1 of adoption goes fine, beagle is still getting the lay of the land and not making any sudden moves.
Day 2 and beagle is in full effect. He is house trained, but has been having lots of marking incidents. He marked four times, once in my bedroom, in the bathroom, kitchen, and front hallway. It is very hard to catch him when he does it, but I was able to catch him once and took him outside, but then he marked again later. He was neutered 2 weeks ago, so perhaps the hormones are kicking around in there, or maybe it's just habit. Beagle is also very willful, charges around the apartment smelling everything, jumping up to get to food, eating food off the table, and he chases the kitten around as if it's a rabbit. This is, of course, very distressing to my roommate.
Day 3 - more chasing, more peeing, crate training is going slowly, but lots of crying and howling when he is in there for more than 5 minutes. When he does get let out, he goes nuts in my room and scratches at the door and runs and bangs into the door tomake a loud noise.
Beagle is cute as could be, but clearly he needs tons of exercise to keep himself occupied. I'm worried about the chasing of the kitten and the marking behavior. I'm also just wondering in general if this setting is not the right place for him.
Please don't pile on about how terrible I am. Believe me, I already feel terrible for considering returning him. For instance, right now he's curled up in a little ball on my bed and all is right with the world. But I know the training is going to be intense and I don't know that we'll ever get to a happy place where 2 cats and this beagle can all coexist happily and I don't want to leave beagle crated all day while I'm at work. Clearly staying in my bedroom won't do it either since he bangs at the door and scratches. Oh, and I don't want excessive beagle noise and howling to cause any issues with the neighbors and landlords.
What do I do? Do I keep trying with the hope that this will work? What if it doesn't and more time passes and then I have to return him? I don't want to wait so long that we'll be too attached to each other. I feel like a horrible, rotten, person, the type that adopts a shelter dog and then returns him. At least the shelter will re-home him, this i know for sure.
Please help with any advice. Thanks.
Three days ago I adopted a very cute, loving, 2 year old male beagle from a local rescue organization. I live with a roommate who has 2 male cats (one adult cat, one three month old kitten). Beagle comes over with his foster parent to check out my apartment and meet the other animals. At that time, beagle was very docile and calm, and didn't display any aggressive behavior towards the cats. I had been looking to adopt a dog for about six months, specifically wanted a beagle because I lived with one for a couple of years in a different roommate situation. Apparently, that beagle was exceptionally out of character for a beagle - quiet, calm, low-key.
Day 1 of adoption goes fine, beagle is still getting the lay of the land and not making any sudden moves.
Day 2 and beagle is in full effect. He is house trained, but has been having lots of marking incidents. He marked four times, once in my bedroom, in the bathroom, kitchen, and front hallway. It is very hard to catch him when he does it, but I was able to catch him once and took him outside, but then he marked again later. He was neutered 2 weeks ago, so perhaps the hormones are kicking around in there, or maybe it's just habit. Beagle is also very willful, charges around the apartment smelling everything, jumping up to get to food, eating food off the table, and he chases the kitten around as if it's a rabbit. This is, of course, very distressing to my roommate.
Day 3 - more chasing, more peeing, crate training is going slowly, but lots of crying and howling when he is in there for more than 5 minutes. When he does get let out, he goes nuts in my room and scratches at the door and runs and bangs into the door tomake a loud noise.
Beagle is cute as could be, but clearly he needs tons of exercise to keep himself occupied. I'm worried about the chasing of the kitten and the marking behavior. I'm also just wondering in general if this setting is not the right place for him.
Please don't pile on about how terrible I am. Believe me, I already feel terrible for considering returning him. For instance, right now he's curled up in a little ball on my bed and all is right with the world. But I know the training is going to be intense and I don't know that we'll ever get to a happy place where 2 cats and this beagle can all coexist happily and I don't want to leave beagle crated all day while I'm at work. Clearly staying in my bedroom won't do it either since he bangs at the door and scratches. Oh, and I don't want excessive beagle noise and howling to cause any issues with the neighbors and landlords.
What do I do? Do I keep trying with the hope that this will work? What if it doesn't and more time passes and then I have to return him? I don't want to wait so long that we'll be too attached to each other. I feel like a horrible, rotten, person, the type that adopts a shelter dog and then returns him. At least the shelter will re-home him, this i know for sure.
Please help with any advice. Thanks.
3 days is hardly any acclimation time, especially in a household with other animals. And beagles are typically fairly high energy dogs, that do enjoy nosing around, and need a fair amount of exercise to stay fit and happy. A beagle may not, on breed characteristics, be the best choice for you, as a pet.
But really, the dog can also be keying off your anxiety and that which may be coming off your roommate, making him more anxious and likely to mark/pee, in these early days. Also, beagles generally want an opportunity to relieve themselves every few hours - if your dog is going to be staying in your apartment all day while you're at work with no chance to do so, you're not really being fair to the dog in terms of biological urges. Some dogs can learn to "hold" it, and some will reduce their water/food intake enough not to routinely foul their homes, but others just start doing "den" behaviors, like licking its own urine, to manage long owner absences, and this isn't a good thing, obviously.
If it were me, I'd relax, play more with the dog, get outside as much as possible, and give him at least another week to settle in. Training takes generally takes months of careful patient work with a dog, as you and he develop a relationship, and you may just be expecting too much, too quickly. And being a beagle, if you're not able to exercise him vigorously at least a couple hours a day, you can't expect having a pleasant, trainable dog.
posted by paulsc at 11:03 PM on December 26, 2010
But really, the dog can also be keying off your anxiety and that which may be coming off your roommate, making him more anxious and likely to mark/pee, in these early days. Also, beagles generally want an opportunity to relieve themselves every few hours - if your dog is going to be staying in your apartment all day while you're at work with no chance to do so, you're not really being fair to the dog in terms of biological urges. Some dogs can learn to "hold" it, and some will reduce their water/food intake enough not to routinely foul their homes, but others just start doing "den" behaviors, like licking its own urine, to manage long owner absences, and this isn't a good thing, obviously.
If it were me, I'd relax, play more with the dog, get outside as much as possible, and give him at least another week to settle in. Training takes generally takes months of careful patient work with a dog, as you and he develop a relationship, and you may just be expecting too much, too quickly. And being a beagle, if you're not able to exercise him vigorously at least a couple hours a day, you can't expect having a pleasant, trainable dog.
posted by paulsc at 11:03 PM on December 26, 2010
First off, give yourself a break. A shelter dog has just been through a pretty weird experience, and you can expect them to change over time.
Secondly, give your new pal some things to keep him occupied. I recently adopted a pound puppy, and have found great comfort in getting him lots of toys. His two favorite are a real shank bone and a kong wubba, which he likes to throw around. When we have to leave him, we fill a kong ball with crappy moist food or liver treats, and he always manages to empty that out.
As for the peeing, make sure to set up a specific schedule. Dogs like schedules. For our new guy, it goes like this: morning time, we go for a pee. Then it's breakfast time. After about 1 1/2 hours, it's time for a walk. If there's another crating time, that calls for an immediate pee again. Then it's dinner time, followed by another walk after an 1 1/2 hours. Our first week, we were taking him out up to 6 times a day. Now, he's gotten the gist of it, and no accidents (hope I didn't just jinx myself).
If you don't catch him in the act, there's really no way to correct him. Just clean it up and move on. I suggest Nature's Miracle.
Beagles are a handful, so I hope you're fit. I have a freaking daschund mix and he's kicking my ass. Walk him 30 to 45 minutes twice a day. Better yet, get him to play fetch. Tennis balls and a wide open field are good for this, once you trust him to not run off. Tire a dog out, and you'll find them to be much easier to deal with.
It gets better. I'm 6 weeks in, and our little guy has already improved. Good luck.
posted by Gilbert at 11:07 PM on December 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Secondly, give your new pal some things to keep him occupied. I recently adopted a pound puppy, and have found great comfort in getting him lots of toys. His two favorite are a real shank bone and a kong wubba, which he likes to throw around. When we have to leave him, we fill a kong ball with crappy moist food or liver treats, and he always manages to empty that out.
As for the peeing, make sure to set up a specific schedule. Dogs like schedules. For our new guy, it goes like this: morning time, we go for a pee. Then it's breakfast time. After about 1 1/2 hours, it's time for a walk. If there's another crating time, that calls for an immediate pee again. Then it's dinner time, followed by another walk after an 1 1/2 hours. Our first week, we were taking him out up to 6 times a day. Now, he's gotten the gist of it, and no accidents (hope I didn't just jinx myself).
If you don't catch him in the act, there's really no way to correct him. Just clean it up and move on. I suggest Nature's Miracle.
Beagles are a handful, so I hope you're fit. I have a freaking daschund mix and he's kicking my ass. Walk him 30 to 45 minutes twice a day. Better yet, get him to play fetch. Tennis balls and a wide open field are good for this, once you trust him to not run off. Tire a dog out, and you'll find them to be much easier to deal with.
It gets better. I'm 6 weeks in, and our little guy has already improved. Good luck.
posted by Gilbert at 11:07 PM on December 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Beagles do require lots of exercise, they are hunting dogs and if they don't get the activity they need you can expect some negative behaviors. Make sure he is getting lots of exercise and activity to keep him occupied. In addition to a few walks per day, perhaps a toy that you can hide food inside to keep him busy. Beagles are cute as pie but running about the countryside is their primary design. Puppy may also need some adjustment time on top of your commitment to his activity levels.
posted by haunted by Leonard Cohen at 11:12 PM on December 26, 2010
posted by haunted by Leonard Cohen at 11:12 PM on December 26, 2010
Response by poster: I did get him lots of toys at Petco, but so far he seems to reject all toys for a keen and intent interest in chasing little kitty. I even bought him some marrow filled bones which I thought would help occupy him in his crate. Nope. He just digs and digs until he finds a hiding spot for the bone and then starts crying. It has been hard to exercise him for the past couple of days with the snowstorm. He is able to haul ass in the backyard for a bit, but he gets cold and his paws get frozen and then he starts to limp around with one paw in the air like he's injured. I've looked into getting him some booties so he can man up a bit more, but got the wrong size and he was all pissed off when i tried to put them on his bulbous, non beagle-like paw. I think he has some basset mixed in cause his paws are large for a little guy. Anyways, I guess I'll see if I can wipe him out with exercise tomorrow if the roads are clear enough.
The peeing is a big issue though. It really seems to be marking behavior. He's getting out to pee lots during the day, and when we go to PetCo, it's a pee party. He also peed at a friend's house (where there was a cat), but no peeing at my parents' place (where there are no animals).
posted by Sal and Richard at 11:18 PM on December 26, 2010
The peeing is a big issue though. It really seems to be marking behavior. He's getting out to pee lots during the day, and when we go to PetCo, it's a pee party. He also peed at a friend's house (where there was a cat), but no peeing at my parents' place (where there are no animals).
posted by Sal and Richard at 11:18 PM on December 26, 2010
I don't understand: 1. Why you don't want to crate the dog all day, 2. Why YOU aren't giving him the exercise he needs (specifically before you leave him alone all day), 3. Why you seemed to have done ZERO research on what beagles are actually like, 4. Why you adopted a SHELTER DOG if you aren't willing to put the time and energy into training and caring for a dog.
OK. Whew.
So, number 1. Dogs are fine in crates for reasonable amounts of time. You shouldn't be worried about that unless you work 10 hour days. We leave up pup in her crate for 8 hour stretches and she's fine. You have to train your dog to get used to the crate. If he's food motivated, use treats. Start with by teaching him the word crate. Say 'crate' and put a treat inside the crate. When he goes inside, praise him and let him eat the treat. Work up in time intervals from there. You shouldn't let your dog be afraid in the crate. Also, you can get him to stop marking by keeping him in the same room with you at all times and watching him. Correct him when he does it, and bring him immediately outside. Dominance training will also help with this, since right now he's marking HIS territory, when he should know he's on yours. See number two.
Number 2. Walk your dog, dude! Not just until he goes to the bathroom, but for a good 45 minutes to an hour in the morning and 30 mins to an hour at night. That's part of being an owner of a high-energy dog. If you think you need help with dominance problems, a lot of people (including me) have had great success with Cesar Milan's techniques. Also, give your dog something to do when he's home alone. Fill a kong with peanut butter. That works well for us, and it's a reward for going in the crate.
Number 3. It's a pretty good bet that most dogs of a breed will exhibit the characteristics of that said breed. That is, if you met a beagle that was calm and quiet, you met probably one if the few calm quiet beagles that exist. Did you read up on beagles? They're hunting dogs, which means they are breed to howl, run, chase, and catch prey. They have a lot of energy, they are loud, and they have a high prey drive. Not a great match for a house with two cats, especially if introduced when the dog is an adult.
Number 4? I just have to say: What were you thinking? You have to think about your options, reconsider your level of commitment, and evaluate the beagle's aggressiveness toward the other animals. If you think you've made a mistake along the way, and if the shelter is a no-kill and he'll get a re-home, I'd say that may be your best bet. I hate giving that advice, but I'd rather see two happy families with healthy pets than one really stressed out household. Sorry for the brutal honesty.
posted by two lights above the sea at 11:20 PM on December 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
OK. Whew.
So, number 1. Dogs are fine in crates for reasonable amounts of time. You shouldn't be worried about that unless you work 10 hour days. We leave up pup in her crate for 8 hour stretches and she's fine. You have to train your dog to get used to the crate. If he's food motivated, use treats. Start with by teaching him the word crate. Say 'crate' and put a treat inside the crate. When he goes inside, praise him and let him eat the treat. Work up in time intervals from there. You shouldn't let your dog be afraid in the crate. Also, you can get him to stop marking by keeping him in the same room with you at all times and watching him. Correct him when he does it, and bring him immediately outside. Dominance training will also help with this, since right now he's marking HIS territory, when he should know he's on yours. See number two.
Number 2. Walk your dog, dude! Not just until he goes to the bathroom, but for a good 45 minutes to an hour in the morning and 30 mins to an hour at night. That's part of being an owner of a high-energy dog. If you think you need help with dominance problems, a lot of people (including me) have had great success with Cesar Milan's techniques. Also, give your dog something to do when he's home alone. Fill a kong with peanut butter. That works well for us, and it's a reward for going in the crate.
Number 3. It's a pretty good bet that most dogs of a breed will exhibit the characteristics of that said breed. That is, if you met a beagle that was calm and quiet, you met probably one if the few calm quiet beagles that exist. Did you read up on beagles? They're hunting dogs, which means they are breed to howl, run, chase, and catch prey. They have a lot of energy, they are loud, and they have a high prey drive. Not a great match for a house with two cats, especially if introduced when the dog is an adult.
Number 4? I just have to say: What were you thinking? You have to think about your options, reconsider your level of commitment, and evaluate the beagle's aggressiveness toward the other animals. If you think you've made a mistake along the way, and if the shelter is a no-kill and he'll get a re-home, I'd say that may be your best bet. I hate giving that advice, but I'd rather see two happy families with healthy pets than one really stressed out household. Sorry for the brutal honesty.
posted by two lights above the sea at 11:20 PM on December 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
Not sure what to do about the marking or beagle personalities, but when I got a kitten, one of my then-boyfriend's rescue dogs completely fixated on the kitten and looked like she wanted to kill her. Here's what we did...
First, we wore the dog out with as much exercise as possible. Do that first and do it often.
Second, I put the dog on a leash inside of the house and whenever she fixated on the kitten, I would redirect her attention with a quick, firm tug on the leash and an admonishment. For 3 days, the dog went with me everywhere inside the house, no exceptions, on the leash. She was not allowed to stare at the kitten (let alone chase her) for even 2 seconds.
After that, they were fine. I occasionally fussed at her for fixating on the kitten, but by then, she knew the rules and cut it out.
Today (years later), Mr. Murrey and I live with 3 rescue dogs and 3 rescue cats, including that once-fixating dog and that kitten. Of all of our dogs and cats, that dog and that once kitten have the closest interspecies relationship and are pals. But it is very important for dogs to have strict boundaries (especially when it comes to teaching them that cats are higher in the pack and not to be chased--ever). Don't let your dog dictate the rules (or lack thereof) in your house.
On preview, the leash in the house thing might work with marking too. And do not "let" your pup go to Petco and sniff and mark when he wants to...keep him on a VERY short leash and do not let him near the things he would likely lift his leg on. Keep him right at your feet. And if he is starting to sniff anything that he might pee on, give the quick tug correction and redirect his attention to something else. Sound like you just need to be firmer with him.
And FWIW, Mr. Murrey and I have 3 very happy dogs who pretty much have the run of the place today. But we were very firm (not abusive) with unwanted behavior when they were first adopted and they learned the rules early. You are not doing your new friend any favors by not teaching him your rules.
posted by murrey at 4:54 AM on December 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
First, we wore the dog out with as much exercise as possible. Do that first and do it often.
Second, I put the dog on a leash inside of the house and whenever she fixated on the kitten, I would redirect her attention with a quick, firm tug on the leash and an admonishment. For 3 days, the dog went with me everywhere inside the house, no exceptions, on the leash. She was not allowed to stare at the kitten (let alone chase her) for even 2 seconds.
After that, they were fine. I occasionally fussed at her for fixating on the kitten, but by then, she knew the rules and cut it out.
Today (years later), Mr. Murrey and I live with 3 rescue dogs and 3 rescue cats, including that once-fixating dog and that kitten. Of all of our dogs and cats, that dog and that once kitten have the closest interspecies relationship and are pals. But it is very important for dogs to have strict boundaries (especially when it comes to teaching them that cats are higher in the pack and not to be chased--ever). Don't let your dog dictate the rules (or lack thereof) in your house.
On preview, the leash in the house thing might work with marking too. And do not "let" your pup go to Petco and sniff and mark when he wants to...keep him on a VERY short leash and do not let him near the things he would likely lift his leg on. Keep him right at your feet. And if he is starting to sniff anything that he might pee on, give the quick tug correction and redirect his attention to something else. Sound like you just need to be firmer with him.
And FWIW, Mr. Murrey and I have 3 very happy dogs who pretty much have the run of the place today. But we were very firm (not abusive) with unwanted behavior when they were first adopted and they learned the rules early. You are not doing your new friend any favors by not teaching him your rules.
posted by murrey at 4:54 AM on December 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Nthing more exercise, as weather allows. He's two years old, so if he's getting reasonable exercise, he'll probably sleep like 15 hours a day, and that only gets better.
Also Nthing keeping him on a lead while you are home until he has learned everything you want him to. It's a way of establishing an acceptable routine for him without having to worry about whether he understands--it's constant non-verbal communication that his behavior is OK or not OK. He just has no clue right now what you want him to do, and verbal and/or belated communication makes no sense to him. He'll probably be glad to be at your side to learn new routines gradually.
Expect it to take 2-4 months for him to be the dog you thought you were getting.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:05 AM on December 27, 2010
Also Nthing keeping him on a lead while you are home until he has learned everything you want him to. It's a way of establishing an acceptable routine for him without having to worry about whether he understands--it's constant non-verbal communication that his behavior is OK or not OK. He just has no clue right now what you want him to do, and verbal and/or belated communication makes no sense to him. He'll probably be glad to be at your side to learn new routines gradually.
Expect it to take 2-4 months for him to be the dog you thought you were getting.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 5:05 AM on December 27, 2010
I know that you are feeling overwhelmed and anxious, but it DOES get better.
I'm repeating the obvious, but that dog needs exercise, especially if he's just coming off of being fixed. Walk him at least 30 to 45 minutes in the morning and the evening. Don't let him sniff every 5 inches, keep him on a short lead at a brisk pace. He is allowed to mark when you say it's ok. (Make it a voice command "Mark" every time he does a small pee on something)
In your house, keep him on a leash that is attached to you. Every minute he's not in a crate he's on a leash. It's going to drive you crazy, but once he realizes you are the boss and he can't do anything without your say-so, the marking, stalking and running around like a hooligan will stop. Be consistent with this!
Find a good trainer and sign up for a course. If you can't afford it, go to your local book store and read up on positive behavior modification. This dog needs discipline and you are the one to provide it!
Having a dog is a big commitment. You will be taking care of another living creature, and that means getting up early for the first bathroom break, roaming the neighborhood for his exercise, feeding, grooming, vet visits, and a lot of other time consuming tasks. And for all of that the only thing you receive in return is unconditional love :-)
posted by lootie777 at 6:18 AM on December 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm repeating the obvious, but that dog needs exercise, especially if he's just coming off of being fixed. Walk him at least 30 to 45 minutes in the morning and the evening. Don't let him sniff every 5 inches, keep him on a short lead at a brisk pace. He is allowed to mark when you say it's ok. (Make it a voice command "Mark" every time he does a small pee on something)
In your house, keep him on a leash that is attached to you. Every minute he's not in a crate he's on a leash. It's going to drive you crazy, but once he realizes you are the boss and he can't do anything without your say-so, the marking, stalking and running around like a hooligan will stop. Be consistent with this!
Find a good trainer and sign up for a course. If you can't afford it, go to your local book store and read up on positive behavior modification. This dog needs discipline and you are the one to provide it!
Having a dog is a big commitment. You will be taking care of another living creature, and that means getting up early for the first bathroom break, roaming the neighborhood for his exercise, feeding, grooming, vet visits, and a lot of other time consuming tasks. And for all of that the only thing you receive in return is unconditional love :-)
posted by lootie777 at 6:18 AM on December 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
He is able to haul ass in the backyard for a bit, but he gets cold and his paws get frozen and then he starts to limp around with one paw in the air like he's injured. I've looked into getting him some booties so he can man up a bit more, but got the wrong size and he was all pissed off when i tried to put them on his bulbous, non beagle-like paw.
Are you sure his paw isn't injured? When we first got our "mostly beagle" it was his first winter and there was a huge snowstorm, and he loved it. Even when the snow was almost as tall as he was he would hop around until he got tired. I think winter is his favorite time of year, and snowstorms doubly so.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:18 AM on December 27, 2010
Are you sure his paw isn't injured? When we first got our "mostly beagle" it was his first winter and there was a huge snowstorm, and he loved it. Even when the snow was almost as tall as he was he would hop around until he got tired. I think winter is his favorite time of year, and snowstorms doubly so.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:18 AM on December 27, 2010
I can't help you with much of it, many others have done that already, but I found that when my dog does the foot up hopping around in the snow, it's because he got a piece of salt or snow melt in there and it really hurts them. I just stick my finger around in his paw and clear it out (sometimes it takes a couple tries) and then he's off running again.
posted by katers890 at 6:50 AM on December 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by katers890 at 6:50 AM on December 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
my husky was on a leash for about 6 months, other than at night when she was either sleeping in her crate or sleeping on our bed with the cats outside a closed door. At about 6 months I thought I had reached the end of my own rope, but things started to turn around at that point.
While she was on the leash, every.single.time she looked like she was sniffing, I took her out (this 6 month period was during the winter in Michigan, snow is not an excuse!). Ever.single.time she was overly agressive towards a cat she was corrected and redirected. Every.single.time she tried to get at food or something else she wasn't supposed to have she was corrected and redirected.
At the same time she was lavishly rewarded for every good deed or thought...
It takes time and energy. If you have that, keep the pup, if you don't , giving the pup up to someone that does is probably best for you, the room-mate, the cats, and, most of all, the pup.
posted by HuronBob at 7:14 AM on December 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
While she was on the leash, every.single.time she looked like she was sniffing, I took her out (this 6 month period was during the winter in Michigan, snow is not an excuse!). Ever.single.time she was overly agressive towards a cat she was corrected and redirected. Every.single.time she tried to get at food or something else she wasn't supposed to have she was corrected and redirected.
At the same time she was lavishly rewarded for every good deed or thought...
It takes time and energy. If you have that, keep the pup, if you don't , giving the pup up to someone that does is probably best for you, the room-mate, the cats, and, most of all, the pup.
posted by HuronBob at 7:14 AM on December 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: two lights above the sea - I did do research on what beagles are like, and I know I was wrong in assuming this beagle was different (and similar to the one I lived with previously). From all accounts from foster mom he was just a quiet, calm, snuggle bug, who was absolutely fine with cats. This is not the case at all.
I do WANT to crate him and I am feeding him his meals in there. I left him in there for 20 minutes while I went out to shovel the snow and he cried and barked the entire time (recorded it). I'm being honest here to say that I think I made the wrong decision and I don't know if I'm going to be able to provide the best home for this awesome dog. I'm heartbroken over it, and beating myself up pretty badly over it for not thinking it through clearly.
posted by Sal and Richard at 7:59 AM on December 27, 2010
I do WANT to crate him and I am feeding him his meals in there. I left him in there for 20 minutes while I went out to shovel the snow and he cried and barked the entire time (recorded it). I'm being honest here to say that I think I made the wrong decision and I don't know if I'm going to be able to provide the best home for this awesome dog. I'm heartbroken over it, and beating myself up pretty badly over it for not thinking it through clearly.
posted by Sal and Richard at 7:59 AM on December 27, 2010
There are ways to work on the problems you describe, as many posters have noted above. I had to teach my greyhound (talk about a breed built to chase...) not to go after our cats. He had been cat-tested by the adoption group with different results the two times they tested him but they thought he was at least "workable". He was on a leash or muzzled or crated 100% of the time for a few weeks while we worked with him. We corrected him whenever he looked at the cat with interest, and gave him a treat when he turned his attention to us. He's now totally fine with our kitties.
But reading your follow up, it doesn't seem like you have it in you to do the kind of work that would need to be done to train this guy and get him acclimated to your house and rules. You sound exhausted and scared and frustrated. Another complicating factor is that the cats belong to your roommate - as someone that once lived in a situation where my cat was terrorized by a roommate's new dog, that is very Not Cool unless you have your roommate's complete support and approval. Then there are also the neighbors/landlord issues with a very noisy breed. Yes he can be trained to like his crate but in the meantime he will howl and your neighbors will need to be understanding.
Given all that, it sounds like it might be best to chalk this one up to lesson learned and give fhe beagle a chance at the right home for him.
posted by misskaz at 8:25 AM on December 27, 2010
But reading your follow up, it doesn't seem like you have it in you to do the kind of work that would need to be done to train this guy and get him acclimated to your house and rules. You sound exhausted and scared and frustrated. Another complicating factor is that the cats belong to your roommate - as someone that once lived in a situation where my cat was terrorized by a roommate's new dog, that is very Not Cool unless you have your roommate's complete support and approval. Then there are also the neighbors/landlord issues with a very noisy breed. Yes he can be trained to like his crate but in the meantime he will howl and your neighbors will need to be understanding.
Given all that, it sounds like it might be best to chalk this one up to lesson learned and give fhe beagle a chance at the right home for him.
posted by misskaz at 8:25 AM on December 27, 2010
Best answer: So my two cents (owner of 2 rescue dogs, and one mean cat via marriage)
1. Don't be ashamed and or afraid to return the dog to the rescue organization if need be. Not all dogs are right in all situations and yours may be untenable. Give him a few more days to acclimate to his situation and if it still doesn't work out, don't force it. Returning a dog is preferable over trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. When I adopted my first dog, a high energy border collie mix it took about a week to get him settled in (only pet in house at that time). But there were several times where I almost took him back (in particular when I was studying for final of my masters and he got out of our yard and stuck in the neighbors at 3am). I came to terms at that point that he might not be the dog for me and that taking him back was an acceptable alternative. Luckily it all worked out.
2. My household grew like so, dog 1 first, then fiancee and cat, then dog 2. Each time we introduced dogs to cat we were militant about it. First we kept dogs and cat in separate bedrooms during the day when we were not there, you can't train them remotely. When we were there and they were in the same room, if they looked at the cat funny we came down like the holy hand of god on our dogs. A very firm NO! followed by a grabbed scruff and pull. After a few times of that the dog knew 1. the cat was off limits and by extension 2. We were setting ourselves up as alpha. We did the same thing with food left in accessible places. Its our food and they don't get to touch it. This may seem a bit mean but I guarantee the dogs were never hurt, maybe a bit scared but that was kind of the point. Fortunately the cat was also very feisty and our dogs pretty timid. They are both now in fear of the cat, which is only partly due to our actions and partly due to some serious smacks by a cats paw on their snouts.
3. If its difficult to crate during the day, maybe you can take the dog to work and keep him in the car (this is only valid of course in temperate climes). I have a good friend who's dog's remote "crate" is basically the back seat of his car. I agree with the above posts work the dog hard in the morning before leaving via a walk or something then don't be afraid to crate all day for now. He needs to get used to the crate. Better, usually, he's noisy during the day if he's uncomfortable then at night.
4. Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. If he's already not ball obsessed now is a good time to start. A dog such as yours will always be better behaved, and more trainable after a serious dose of running and working (chasing a ball can be his job). If you watch Cesar Milan's show or read his books, he pretty much always exercises difficult dogs before training and I've seen this work on my own dogs.
posted by bitdamaged at 9:07 AM on December 27, 2010
1. Don't be ashamed and or afraid to return the dog to the rescue organization if need be. Not all dogs are right in all situations and yours may be untenable. Give him a few more days to acclimate to his situation and if it still doesn't work out, don't force it. Returning a dog is preferable over trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. When I adopted my first dog, a high energy border collie mix it took about a week to get him settled in (only pet in house at that time). But there were several times where I almost took him back (in particular when I was studying for final of my masters and he got out of our yard and stuck in the neighbors at 3am). I came to terms at that point that he might not be the dog for me and that taking him back was an acceptable alternative. Luckily it all worked out.
2. My household grew like so, dog 1 first, then fiancee and cat, then dog 2. Each time we introduced dogs to cat we were militant about it. First we kept dogs and cat in separate bedrooms during the day when we were not there, you can't train them remotely. When we were there and they were in the same room, if they looked at the cat funny we came down like the holy hand of god on our dogs. A very firm NO! followed by a grabbed scruff and pull. After a few times of that the dog knew 1. the cat was off limits and by extension 2. We were setting ourselves up as alpha. We did the same thing with food left in accessible places. Its our food and they don't get to touch it. This may seem a bit mean but I guarantee the dogs were never hurt, maybe a bit scared but that was kind of the point. Fortunately the cat was also very feisty and our dogs pretty timid. They are both now in fear of the cat, which is only partly due to our actions and partly due to some serious smacks by a cats paw on their snouts.
3. If its difficult to crate during the day, maybe you can take the dog to work and keep him in the car (this is only valid of course in temperate climes). I have a good friend who's dog's remote "crate" is basically the back seat of his car. I agree with the above posts work the dog hard in the morning before leaving via a walk or something then don't be afraid to crate all day for now. He needs to get used to the crate. Better, usually, he's noisy during the day if he's uncomfortable then at night.
4. Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. If he's already not ball obsessed now is a good time to start. A dog such as yours will always be better behaved, and more trainable after a serious dose of running and working (chasing a ball can be his job). If you watch Cesar Milan's show or read his books, he pretty much always exercises difficult dogs before training and I've seen this work on my own dogs.
posted by bitdamaged at 9:07 AM on December 27, 2010
If his foster mom says he was quiet, calm, and fine with cats, that's very encouraging! That means that it's very, very likely that he will settle down once he learns the routine and rules and is more secure. If he learned that his old housemate cats were out of bounds, he can learn that about these cats. If I were you, I'd try to get some advice from the foster mom — I'm sure she'd be more than happy to give you some tips.
If it helps at all, some of the things my rescue dog did in the first week: bounding up on the bed; stealing and gobbling a whole dark chocolate bar, so we had to induce vomiting (hello, and welcome to your new home — now puke!); stealing food off the table; jumping through an open window that we assumed was way to high for her jump from; escaping our fenced terrace; peeing inside, but refusing to pee on walks; lying down in the street and refusing to move. There's probably more I've forgotten.
I'm here to tell you that I cannot even believe this is the same dog. She is so well-behaved it's almost ridiculous, really. Once she settled into the new place and started learning commands and obedience exercises, and as trust and respect grew between us, she just kept getting better and better.
From friends with beagles, I can say, though, that you need to be really consistent and persistent with your training, and they do need a lot of exercise. Beagles are utterly sweet and adorable, and can be excellent pets, but they definitely tend to advantage of laxity in obedience training if it occurs. If you decide to stick with it, and are willing to work with him, it really, really does get better! It can feel overwhelming, I know; I was a not a little terrified myself the first few days, and secretly wondered if I had made a terrible mistake.
Being stubborn yourself is, I think, a rather good trait to have as a dog owner, though. :) I was determined to have the (really loving, patient) upper hand, and I actually think it was a relief for her to understand that. Your guy has a number of problems right now that he won't have later: a probable hormone hangover from the recent neutering; confusion about the new home and his place in the hierarchy, no set routine yet, and fear and insecurity about it all. This is not to try to convince you if you've definitely decided, but if you have doubts about returning him, I can promise you that it's way too early to extrapolate his later behavior on what he's doing right now.
But if you feel that you aren't up it, you're not a terrible person — some personalities just work better with some dogs than others, and vice versa. I think most beagles need a firm hand with regard to obedience training, and they do need their exercise. If that seems like something you can do, it will probably work out just fine, but if it doesn't, there are other dogs that need homes that are more laid back.
posted by taz at 9:14 AM on December 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
If it helps at all, some of the things my rescue dog did in the first week: bounding up on the bed; stealing and gobbling a whole dark chocolate bar, so we had to induce vomiting (hello, and welcome to your new home — now puke!); stealing food off the table; jumping through an open window that we assumed was way to high for her jump from; escaping our fenced terrace; peeing inside, but refusing to pee on walks; lying down in the street and refusing to move. There's probably more I've forgotten.
I'm here to tell you that I cannot even believe this is the same dog. She is so well-behaved it's almost ridiculous, really. Once she settled into the new place and started learning commands and obedience exercises, and as trust and respect grew between us, she just kept getting better and better.
From friends with beagles, I can say, though, that you need to be really consistent and persistent with your training, and they do need a lot of exercise. Beagles are utterly sweet and adorable, and can be excellent pets, but they definitely tend to advantage of laxity in obedience training if it occurs. If you decide to stick with it, and are willing to work with him, it really, really does get better! It can feel overwhelming, I know; I was a not a little terrified myself the first few days, and secretly wondered if I had made a terrible mistake.
Being stubborn yourself is, I think, a rather good trait to have as a dog owner, though. :) I was determined to have the (really loving, patient) upper hand, and I actually think it was a relief for her to understand that. Your guy has a number of problems right now that he won't have later: a probable hormone hangover from the recent neutering; confusion about the new home and his place in the hierarchy, no set routine yet, and fear and insecurity about it all. This is not to try to convince you if you've definitely decided, but if you have doubts about returning him, I can promise you that it's way too early to extrapolate his later behavior on what he's doing right now.
But if you feel that you aren't up it, you're not a terrible person — some personalities just work better with some dogs than others, and vice versa. I think most beagles need a firm hand with regard to obedience training, and they do need their exercise. If that seems like something you can do, it will probably work out just fine, but if it doesn't, there are other dogs that need homes that are more laid back.
posted by taz at 9:14 AM on December 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Beagle is also very willful, charges around the apartment smelling everything, jumping up to get to food, eating food off the table, and he chases the kitten around as if it's a rabbit.
This is what beagles are like. If you honestly think that this was not the best choice for you, please don't keep the dog. The longer you keep him, the more you will end up resenting him (it sounds like this may already be happening) and the worse it will be for both of you.
My roommate and I have a beagle/Jack Russell and a cat between the two of us, and I'm not going to lie- we've had the dog for about a year and it is just now getting to the point where they get along well (although this was just as much about the cat learning to ignore the dog as it was the other way around). It took about a month before she was fully crate-trained, and we have had to severely restrict the cat/dog interactions- kitty lives mostly in my room, pup lives mostly in my roommate's room. The dog needs a ridiculous amount of exercise. We ended up getting training for her because some of her problems (jumping, etc) were ones that we didn't want to tackle by ourself. Don't get me wrong, I adore this dog and I'm so glad that we got her, but it has been a LOT of work up until now, and it sounds like you may not have the resources or time to take care of this dog like he should be taken care of. Maybe think about adopting an older dog with more cat experience?
posted by kro at 9:20 AM on December 27, 2010
This is what beagles are like. If you honestly think that this was not the best choice for you, please don't keep the dog. The longer you keep him, the more you will end up resenting him (it sounds like this may already be happening) and the worse it will be for both of you.
My roommate and I have a beagle/Jack Russell and a cat between the two of us, and I'm not going to lie- we've had the dog for about a year and it is just now getting to the point where they get along well (although this was just as much about the cat learning to ignore the dog as it was the other way around). It took about a month before she was fully crate-trained, and we have had to severely restrict the cat/dog interactions- kitty lives mostly in my room, pup lives mostly in my roommate's room. The dog needs a ridiculous amount of exercise. We ended up getting training for her because some of her problems (jumping, etc) were ones that we didn't want to tackle by ourself. Don't get me wrong, I adore this dog and I'm so glad that we got her, but it has been a LOT of work up until now, and it sounds like you may not have the resources or time to take care of this dog like he should be taken care of. Maybe think about adopting an older dog with more cat experience?
posted by kro at 9:20 AM on December 27, 2010
Your setup and schedule aren't conducive to a beagle. It doesn't sound like you can give him what he needs/wants. I would recommend returning the dog and getting one that is better suited to your lifestyle/work habits. I would go for an older dog and a breed that is more mellow.
Beagles aren't really apartment dogs. Yes, they are small, but they are neurotic and hyper. Please do some more research before getting your next dog. You can also talk to the shelter about best breeds for your situation.
posted by TheBones at 9:37 AM on December 27, 2010
Beagles aren't really apartment dogs. Yes, they are small, but they are neurotic and hyper. Please do some more research before getting your next dog. You can also talk to the shelter about best breeds for your situation.
posted by TheBones at 9:37 AM on December 27, 2010
And you are not terrible at all, just need to do some more research- good luck.
posted by TheBones at 9:38 AM on December 27, 2010
posted by TheBones at 9:38 AM on December 27, 2010
Please don't pile on about how terrible I am.
Mate you rescued a dog! You're trying to give him a new chance at life! With more people like you in this world, we'd have fewer unhappy animals. That deserves a gold star in my book.
posted by Sutekh at 3:27 PM on December 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
Mate you rescued a dog! You're trying to give him a new chance at life! With more people like you in this world, we'd have fewer unhappy animals. That deserves a gold star in my book.
posted by Sutekh at 3:27 PM on December 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Have you talked to the foster mom about how the dog was in her house and what she did? You should get in touch with the rescue right now and tell them what is going on and how overwhelmed you are. If they are worth their salt they’ll try to fix this – either by helping your taking the dog back or whatever needs to be done.
If they don't want to help you, then find a good trainer right away. A rescue that's not going to put you in contact with foster or help you with training ideas or tries to distance themselves from the pup is bad news.
Good luck and I hope your situation turns out like Taz's.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 3:53 PM on December 27, 2010
If they don't want to help you, then find a good trainer right away. A rescue that's not going to put you in contact with foster or help you with training ideas or tries to distance themselves from the pup is bad news.
Good luck and I hope your situation turns out like Taz's.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 3:53 PM on December 27, 2010
Response by poster: Lesser Shrew - I did contact the rescue organization today and tearfully explained what was going on with Beagle. They gave me some suggestions, such as spraying him with a water bottle whenever he jumps up on anything, shaking a can full of coins at him when he marks anywhere, buy a kong or marrow bone and fill it with peanut butter.
so, went and bought a kong, filled that sucker with peanut butter and a treat and tried crating him up. Beagle was not having it! He just left the kong untouched and howled. Argh. Then I fed him dinner in the crate and as soon as he finished he pissed on his blankets and on the kong. A big FU to the peanut butter.
Undeterred, I washed the crate up, but in a fuzzier, comfier blanket and a pillow, filled the kong up with chicken, and he has now been in the crate for a full 15 minutes without a word. Looks comfy in there, too. He was also better with kitties today. He was able to play in the yard with the neighbor's dog, so I think the exercise thing does work pretty well, was a lot calmer today.
Will keep you updated. Thanks for all the help, really. I was feeling very overwhelmed, but it's a little bit better today.
Thanks.
posted by Sal and Richard at 6:07 PM on December 27, 2010
so, went and bought a kong, filled that sucker with peanut butter and a treat and tried crating him up. Beagle was not having it! He just left the kong untouched and howled. Argh. Then I fed him dinner in the crate and as soon as he finished he pissed on his blankets and on the kong. A big FU to the peanut butter.
Undeterred, I washed the crate up, but in a fuzzier, comfier blanket and a pillow, filled the kong up with chicken, and he has now been in the crate for a full 15 minutes without a word. Looks comfy in there, too. He was also better with kitties today. He was able to play in the yard with the neighbor's dog, so I think the exercise thing does work pretty well, was a lot calmer today.
Will keep you updated. Thanks for all the help, really. I was feeling very overwhelmed, but it's a little bit better today.
Thanks.
posted by Sal and Richard at 6:07 PM on December 27, 2010
Glad to hear things are starting to work out. Maybe you should see if there is a Beagle meet-up or some other resource in your area.
The suggestions the rescue gave are fine, as far as that goes, but if they didn't talk about what you need to do to build a relationship with the dog, you're going to need more help.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:14 PM on December 28, 2010
The suggestions the rescue gave are fine, as far as that goes, but if they didn't talk about what you need to do to build a relationship with the dog, you're going to need more help.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:14 PM on December 28, 2010
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