Best way to thaw frozen food?
December 13, 2010 2:45 PM Subscribe
[Defrosting-Filter] Alright people, this is it, the big one. What is the most efficient way to defrost meat without using a microwave?
I've heard hot water, cold water, and stainless steel plate. The latter seems best, but what's the consensus on this?
When you say efficient do you mean fast? Because putting it in the refrigerator is probably the most efficient way, but also the slowest.
posted by cabingirl at 2:53 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by cabingirl at 2:53 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Place (sealed in plastic) in a large bowl and put the bowl under very slowly running cold water. Temperature, convection and conduction in perfect harmony. Science!
posted by bgrebs at 2:54 PM on December 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by bgrebs at 2:54 PM on December 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
When possible, I defrost overnight in the refrigerator. If that isn't an option, then either cold running water or a container of cold water, changed regularly. I would never use hot water, which would probably adversely affect the texture of the meat. Also, depending on how hot the water was and how long you left the meat in it, you might end up with food poisoning due to the meat being kept in the temperature danger zone (40F - 140F) for too long. I've never heard of using a stainless steel plate.
Disclaimer - I spent 15 years as a professional chef, so the methods I use are ones that wouldn't get me in trouble if the health inspector came by. Thawing food in hot water would have been a very quick ticket to losing my job.
posted by ralan at 2:55 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Disclaimer - I spent 15 years as a professional chef, so the methods I use are ones that wouldn't get me in trouble if the health inspector came by. Thawing food in hot water would have been a very quick ticket to losing my job.
posted by ralan at 2:55 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Echoing the others saying to put the meat (sealed in plastic) in a bowl of water. I do slightly colder than room temp, myself. Also helps to change the water every few minutes.
posted by phunniemee at 3:02 PM on December 13, 2010
posted by phunniemee at 3:02 PM on December 13, 2010
The method I use, which I think learned from Alton Brown, is placing the meat (I always freeze in plastic bags or Foodsaver) in the sink that is filled with cold tap water for no more than an hour. Works like a charm on most cuts of meats (obviously won't work on giant or really thick slabs of meat). Typically, the meat is fairly cold when the hour is up.
posted by puritycontrol at 3:13 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by puritycontrol at 3:13 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Alton Brown recommends [cf. scenes 6 and 7] running cold water: "When it comes to thawing, you want two things: you want to thaw the food but you also want to keep it out of the bacterial danger zone which means no hot methods. So, either thaw in the refrigerator—which, of course, will take a lot of time to get the job done—or thaw submerged in barely running, cold water. It's the fastest way to thaw."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:15 PM on December 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:15 PM on December 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Safest or fastest is probably what you mean. Most efficient, in terms of energy use would be passive heating in an ambient environment that doesn't require supplemental heat. The amount of energy needed will always be governed by the mass you are thawing and the temperature rise you desire, so "efficiency" has to be defined, IMO, as cost, and nothing costs less than free energy.
The issues are two fold. First, how to get the mass up to a uniform and acceptable temperature and then, how to do it as quickly as possible to minimize the time between frozen and cooking, so as to minimize pathogens.
The microwave has the advantage of heating the meat from within, but it's a little non-uniform. It probably wins on safety and speed.
Anything which relies on heat transfer of the meat has to deal with the thermal conductivity of the meat, which for all practical purposes, can be approximated by an equivalent mass of water.
A fluid, such as water, conforms to the entire surface area of the meat, which improves uniform heat transfer. It can also be constantly replenished, which will keep the temperature differential higher and promote somewhat higher melting. Unfortunately, once the exterior of the meat thaws, it becomes the limiting factor in conducting heat from the interior, so if you really wanted to speed things up, you'd provide a conduit of some sort into the interior of the meat.
There are better thermal conductors than water, but it's cheaper than thick silver rods, so there is a big advantage in its favor.
Anything you can do to increase the surface area of the meat will speed thawing. Thin sections of meat, or cubed meat, or meat you can subdivide are better than a solid roast.
In summary, it's a thermodynamics problem to thaw it, but a biology problem, too. I air thaw on a wire frame to allow exposure to all surfaces, but like auto-correct, I live on the edge!
Heat transfer is about thermal conductivity, cross sectional area, temperature differentials and gradients. Increase any of these and the speed of melting will improve. As a physics problem, it's easier than as a food safety problem.
posted by FauxScot at 3:17 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
The issues are two fold. First, how to get the mass up to a uniform and acceptable temperature and then, how to do it as quickly as possible to minimize the time between frozen and cooking, so as to minimize pathogens.
The microwave has the advantage of heating the meat from within, but it's a little non-uniform. It probably wins on safety and speed.
Anything which relies on heat transfer of the meat has to deal with the thermal conductivity of the meat, which for all practical purposes, can be approximated by an equivalent mass of water.
A fluid, such as water, conforms to the entire surface area of the meat, which improves uniform heat transfer. It can also be constantly replenished, which will keep the temperature differential higher and promote somewhat higher melting. Unfortunately, once the exterior of the meat thaws, it becomes the limiting factor in conducting heat from the interior, so if you really wanted to speed things up, you'd provide a conduit of some sort into the interior of the meat.
There are better thermal conductors than water, but it's cheaper than thick silver rods, so there is a big advantage in its favor.
Anything you can do to increase the surface area of the meat will speed thawing. Thin sections of meat, or cubed meat, or meat you can subdivide are better than a solid roast.
In summary, it's a thermodynamics problem to thaw it, but a biology problem, too. I air thaw on a wire frame to allow exposure to all surfaces, but like auto-correct, I live on the edge!
Heat transfer is about thermal conductivity, cross sectional area, temperature differentials and gradients. Increase any of these and the speed of melting will improve. As a physics problem, it's easier than as a food safety problem.
posted by FauxScot at 3:17 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
I clicked through to see if there was an elaboration on what the stainless steel plate technique is: this thread is the top google result for it now.
posted by xueexueg at 3:23 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by xueexueg at 3:23 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Cold running water surrounding the product contained in a bag.
Generally you want to prevent the water from coming into direct contact with the product, as you could damaged or replace the fluid already contained in the product. Also, too much water could swell the surface cells, effectively over-plumping them and then causing them to burst (and loose all their water content). This means bag the product, or use some similar barrier.
The water needs to be running to prevent icing, which will cut open the cells just like non-barrier contact with the water or tbawing freezer burned product.
Hot water will cook the product - edges first- which makes it tougher to season, as well as puts it at risk of time temperature abuse. Warm water does the same thing. Not using a barrier when using warm or hot water also ensures you burst thoseouter cells (and that leads to dry tasting meat as per the cold section).
Lastly those trays work like heat syncs for your computer, just drawing the cold out instead of the hot. Unfortunately they don't prevent bacteria growth.
Now, you can do whatever you like to defrost product, but this is the party line in restaurants.
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:35 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Generally you want to prevent the water from coming into direct contact with the product, as you could damaged or replace the fluid already contained in the product. Also, too much water could swell the surface cells, effectively over-plumping them and then causing them to burst (and loose all their water content). This means bag the product, or use some similar barrier.
The water needs to be running to prevent icing, which will cut open the cells just like non-barrier contact with the water or tbawing freezer burned product.
Hot water will cook the product - edges first- which makes it tougher to season, as well as puts it at risk of time temperature abuse. Warm water does the same thing. Not using a barrier when using warm or hot water also ensures you burst thoseouter cells (and that leads to dry tasting meat as per the cold section).
Lastly those trays work like heat syncs for your computer, just drawing the cold out instead of the hot. Unfortunately they don't prevent bacteria growth.
Now, you can do whatever you like to defrost product, but this is the party line in restaurants.
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:35 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stainless steel is a pretty lousy conducter of heat as metals go, though I guess it would depend on the thickness. Given the same dimensions, silver, aluminum and even iron are all much better conducters than stainless.
Read this entertaining article about the wonders (and perils) of defrosting meat with metal.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:50 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Read this entertaining article about the wonders (and perils) of defrosting meat with metal.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:50 PM on December 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
One other way is to cook it. If you are using it to make a stew, bring the other stew ingredients up to simmer or boil (depending upon your recipe) and immerse the meat in the hot stuff. Leave it in there until the cooking is complete.
If you are looking to cook the meat without putting it into a stew, the only safe ways in your circumstance are refrigerator or running water.
posted by Old Geezer at 4:00 PM on December 13, 2010
If you are looking to cook the meat without putting it into a stew, the only safe ways in your circumstance are refrigerator or running water.
posted by Old Geezer at 4:00 PM on December 13, 2010
Just to comment on the stainless steel plate method mentioned: Are you sure you don't mean a cast-iron plate/pan instead? My grandmother used to do that regularly and it usually had the meat defrosted in a few hours.
posted by KingEdRa at 5:14 PM on December 13, 2010
posted by KingEdRa at 5:14 PM on December 13, 2010
In the USA, over the last 10 years, most new installed water heaters, by state law, are set to deliver "hot" water at 120°F, and many previously installed hot water systems deliver "hot" water at a temperature no higher than this, for liability and anti-scald reasons.
120°F is not even hot enough, by slow sous-vide standards, to actually cook foods. If you miss a de-thawing cycle in what started as 120°F water by 15 minutes, or 30 minutes, or even (gasp!) an hour, you won't even approach the first stages of cooking, by sous-vide method. That could seem to be a problem, except that warming meat slowly, even by sous-vide methods, doesn't really allow for much harmful bacteria, or bacterial toxins to actually form, on the surface of full cut meats, unless you carry the "thawing" process to ridiculous extremes in time.
By actual measurement, on more than 100 trials, over the course of 20+ years, as an interested home cook, defrosting frozen Omaha filet mignon steaks in various ways, defrosting in a 120°F initial temperature water bath of at least 1 gallon per 8 ounce ribeye steak, from an initial individual steak temperature of 0°F, is perfectly safe, and takes about 25 minutes. Chicken and pork cuts of similar thickness work equally well.
But I do take a bit more conservative approach when thawing ground meats, like hamburger, pork sausage, and pressed chicken cutlets. In processing, these meat products can pickup substantial bacterial contamination, and even if frozen, it's not 100% clear that such bacterial contamination is stopped in freezing. So, I generally cut frozen hamburger, sausage, and chicken parts with a sharp knife, and cook immediately by a fast heat transfer method such as deep frying, frying, pressure cooking, steaming, or par-boiling, while the meat is still initialy frozen.
YMMV with meat thickness, perhaps, but, really, if you defrost any kind of meat in warm water, and keep the defrosting cycle to under 3 hours, you won't die of food posioning...
posted by paulsc at 7:16 PM on December 13, 2010
120°F is not even hot enough, by slow sous-vide standards, to actually cook foods. If you miss a de-thawing cycle in what started as 120°F water by 15 minutes, or 30 minutes, or even (gasp!) an hour, you won't even approach the first stages of cooking, by sous-vide method. That could seem to be a problem, except that warming meat slowly, even by sous-vide methods, doesn't really allow for much harmful bacteria, or bacterial toxins to actually form, on the surface of full cut meats, unless you carry the "thawing" process to ridiculous extremes in time.
By actual measurement, on more than 100 trials, over the course of 20+ years, as an interested home cook, defrosting frozen Omaha filet mignon steaks in various ways, defrosting in a 120°F initial temperature water bath of at least 1 gallon per 8 ounce ribeye steak, from an initial individual steak temperature of 0°F, is perfectly safe, and takes about 25 minutes. Chicken and pork cuts of similar thickness work equally well.
But I do take a bit more conservative approach when thawing ground meats, like hamburger, pork sausage, and pressed chicken cutlets. In processing, these meat products can pickup substantial bacterial contamination, and even if frozen, it's not 100% clear that such bacterial contamination is stopped in freezing. So, I generally cut frozen hamburger, sausage, and chicken parts with a sharp knife, and cook immediately by a fast heat transfer method such as deep frying, frying, pressure cooking, steaming, or par-boiling, while the meat is still initialy frozen.
YMMV with meat thickness, perhaps, but, really, if you defrost any kind of meat in warm water, and keep the defrosting cycle to under 3 hours, you won't die of food posioning...
posted by paulsc at 7:16 PM on December 13, 2010
"I didn't die" is great, but you don't want foods capable of spoiling spending very much time between 40 - 140 F. Meat is one such food.
You also don't want food sitting in stagnant water. I get the goddamned heaves just thinking about it.
We also learned from Alton Brown that convection makes a bigger difference than temperature. Cold running water solves both problems.
posted by gjc at 7:32 PM on December 13, 2010
You also don't want food sitting in stagnant water. I get the goddamned heaves just thinking about it.
We also learned from Alton Brown that convection makes a bigger difference than temperature. Cold running water solves both problems.
posted by gjc at 7:32 PM on December 13, 2010
I've used large aluminum plates with good success, but it was less speedy than the running water method (have to flip the food, for one thing). Plus there's the "I have a large plate that's got all manner of meaty runoff" problem.
So, if I live where there's lots of water to be had, I use slow-running water. If water is scarce, I use large metal plates. If I've got time, I use the fridge.
Really.
posted by aramaic at 8:25 PM on December 13, 2010
So, if I live where there's lots of water to be had, I use slow-running water. If water is scarce, I use large metal plates. If I've got time, I use the fridge.
Really.
posted by aramaic at 8:25 PM on December 13, 2010
If the meat is in a waterproof package or ziplock, then I don't have a problem thawing it with warm water. Use a fairly large volume of water to thaw it efficiently, cook right away. Takes no more than 20min, which is nowhere near long enough for any pathogenic bacterial species I've ever heard of to wake up and start multiplying.
posted by Mundungus at 11:34 AM on December 14, 2010
posted by Mundungus at 11:34 AM on December 14, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
That's not the safest way though. I think cold water is recommended as faster than throwing it in the fridge, but safer than warm water.
I use luke-warm water, but I live on the edge.
posted by auto-correct at 2:52 PM on December 13, 2010 [2 favorites]