How do I stop over-analzying everything and driving my bf nuts?
December 4, 2010 10:25 AM Subscribe
Help me stop over-analyzing and pushing my boyfriend away! Lengthy details inside.
This is a reccuring issue with a guy I have had a rocky relationship with. We have broken up twice (first by him, then by me) and he recently has wanted to start talking again. Complicating matters, I am currently in another country but will most likely be moving home in about seven months.
When we dated, I felt continuously rather neglected. About three weeks in the first time, he stopped letting me sleep over because he had a hard time adjusting to sleeping with me in the bed. He was very stubborn about getting tested for STDs for me, I became the one who initiated the vast majority of the contact, he often didn’t want me to come over (even just for sex!) while he was studying, and we stopped going out after about three weeks. It was a mess. A lot of his distance was caused by my overreactions.
He broke it off with me (and I blamed myself for being needy, clingy, overanalzying too much—I felt horrible and responsible). He wanted to stay friends, I said okay, but then realized I wasn’t really happy with that and said no, that I couldn’t forgive him for not getting tested. I moved to NYC, told him that, and three weeks later emailed me with an apology and we started up again, as “friends.” We kept sleeping together when I went home for visits and emailing twice a month.
Right before moving abroad, I went home, we slept together, and he does little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex and showering when I pulled him close to me for a kiss (he only did this once and recently apologized for it, said if I ever feel rejected by him to let him know). He is in general a less openly affectionate and emotional person than I am, so that’s part of it. He is pretty intoverted and I am not. I called him once when I was home and he didn’t answer, I was upset and asking him why the next day and he told me not to overanalyze. I just feel like I was only home for a week, he should answer or call back if he really cares about me that much.
I asked him if he thought he could see himself being with me in the future (NOT trying to get a definitive answer) and he told me not to obsess, that I was being neurotic etc. I felt very pushed away and broke it off with him when I arrived in my new country. He agreed and said that we had different levels of investment in the relationship. Then, two months later emailed me, and subsequently apologized, admitted he had been distant and pushed me away, said he had been trying not to get attached because I was always on the verge of leaving, but that he had gotten more attached than he thought he had let himself. I said okay and we started talking, we now talk almost every day and he has overall been much sweeter and more affectionate. He says he wants to try again when I get back.
Now, I realize all this sounds like he is a jerk. He’s not! He is the most honest, straightforward, caring and mature person I have dated. He is just introverted/needs time alone and I tend to take it personally. When we first started dating, I had very low self esteem (still do somewhat) and was very worried he was going to leave me or just use me for sex, which fed into how I acted. I would sometimes feel neglected for stupid things like him not being all over me right after sex, and then shut down and stop communicating with him for it. I would get mad at him and he had no idea why. I jumped to a lot of conclusions. He is very easily stressed out in general and is in grad school, and right now has gone from instant messaging me twice a day and talking for about 3 hours to talking for about 30 mins-an hour a day. There have been several days (including yesterday) that we haven’t talked at all, and I sent him an email Thursday night that has gone unanswered (though it didn’t need an answer). The last time we talked I asked him if this was a new permanent state, he said no and that he is very busy with finals, but he will have more time after the term ends. Normally, he would be online right now talking with me, but he’s not and it’s making me anxious.
How do I stop my crazy brain from reading so much into his actions? When I don’t overanalyze (ex. I call him, ask to come over, he says he’s busy working, I say nothing the next time we talk vs. getting all needy/insecure) we are fine! He says he feels like I am picking fights, trying to find his flaws, and testing him to see how much he can take. I don’t want to push him away again, and I think part of the reason contact has dropped off recently is because I have been pressuring him, which makes me more anxious, etc! It’s a vicious cycle. He might be avoiding getting online so that he avoids a stressful conversation with me in which I blame him for not paying me enough attention, though he seemed fine last time we talked. I let my brain get into “he doesn’t care mode” and then I get angry, distant, and act in a whole bunch of ways that hurt our relationship. I flip between “he is distant and pushing me away” (angry, destructive mode) and “I am overanalzying” (self-hating, worrying about pushing him away mode). Help me find a happy medium and be normal in this relationship! I should be supportive and sweet when he is stressed about finals and instead I am in danger of flipping out at him if I let myself start believing he doesn’t care or is pulling back.
Also, past history of shitty relationships (though I have never overanalzyed in the past), I am 23 and he is 24, and I can’t go to therapy because I am out of the country.
This is a reccuring issue with a guy I have had a rocky relationship with. We have broken up twice (first by him, then by me) and he recently has wanted to start talking again. Complicating matters, I am currently in another country but will most likely be moving home in about seven months.
When we dated, I felt continuously rather neglected. About three weeks in the first time, he stopped letting me sleep over because he had a hard time adjusting to sleeping with me in the bed. He was very stubborn about getting tested for STDs for me, I became the one who initiated the vast majority of the contact, he often didn’t want me to come over (even just for sex!) while he was studying, and we stopped going out after about three weeks. It was a mess. A lot of his distance was caused by my overreactions.
He broke it off with me (and I blamed myself for being needy, clingy, overanalzying too much—I felt horrible and responsible). He wanted to stay friends, I said okay, but then realized I wasn’t really happy with that and said no, that I couldn’t forgive him for not getting tested. I moved to NYC, told him that, and three weeks later emailed me with an apology and we started up again, as “friends.” We kept sleeping together when I went home for visits and emailing twice a month.
Right before moving abroad, I went home, we slept together, and he does little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex and showering when I pulled him close to me for a kiss (he only did this once and recently apologized for it, said if I ever feel rejected by him to let him know). He is in general a less openly affectionate and emotional person than I am, so that’s part of it. He is pretty intoverted and I am not. I called him once when I was home and he didn’t answer, I was upset and asking him why the next day and he told me not to overanalyze. I just feel like I was only home for a week, he should answer or call back if he really cares about me that much.
I asked him if he thought he could see himself being with me in the future (NOT trying to get a definitive answer) and he told me not to obsess, that I was being neurotic etc. I felt very pushed away and broke it off with him when I arrived in my new country. He agreed and said that we had different levels of investment in the relationship. Then, two months later emailed me, and subsequently apologized, admitted he had been distant and pushed me away, said he had been trying not to get attached because I was always on the verge of leaving, but that he had gotten more attached than he thought he had let himself. I said okay and we started talking, we now talk almost every day and he has overall been much sweeter and more affectionate. He says he wants to try again when I get back.
Now, I realize all this sounds like he is a jerk. He’s not! He is the most honest, straightforward, caring and mature person I have dated. He is just introverted/needs time alone and I tend to take it personally. When we first started dating, I had very low self esteem (still do somewhat) and was very worried he was going to leave me or just use me for sex, which fed into how I acted. I would sometimes feel neglected for stupid things like him not being all over me right after sex, and then shut down and stop communicating with him for it. I would get mad at him and he had no idea why. I jumped to a lot of conclusions. He is very easily stressed out in general and is in grad school, and right now has gone from instant messaging me twice a day and talking for about 3 hours to talking for about 30 mins-an hour a day. There have been several days (including yesterday) that we haven’t talked at all, and I sent him an email Thursday night that has gone unanswered (though it didn’t need an answer). The last time we talked I asked him if this was a new permanent state, he said no and that he is very busy with finals, but he will have more time after the term ends. Normally, he would be online right now talking with me, but he’s not and it’s making me anxious.
How do I stop my crazy brain from reading so much into his actions? When I don’t overanalyze (ex. I call him, ask to come over, he says he’s busy working, I say nothing the next time we talk vs. getting all needy/insecure) we are fine! He says he feels like I am picking fights, trying to find his flaws, and testing him to see how much he can take. I don’t want to push him away again, and I think part of the reason contact has dropped off recently is because I have been pressuring him, which makes me more anxious, etc! It’s a vicious cycle. He might be avoiding getting online so that he avoids a stressful conversation with me in which I blame him for not paying me enough attention, though he seemed fine last time we talked. I let my brain get into “he doesn’t care mode” and then I get angry, distant, and act in a whole bunch of ways that hurt our relationship. I flip between “he is distant and pushing me away” (angry, destructive mode) and “I am overanalzying” (self-hating, worrying about pushing him away mode). Help me find a happy medium and be normal in this relationship! I should be supportive and sweet when he is stressed about finals and instead I am in danger of flipping out at him if I let myself start believing he doesn’t care or is pulling back.
Also, past history of shitty relationships (though I have never overanalzyed in the past), I am 23 and he is 24, and I can’t go to therapy because I am out of the country.
You're reading into his actions because you're trying to find something in them that isn't there. It's entirely logical for him not to be a jerk to the world at large and still be a jerk to you, which is what he's doing. He just wants to fuck and doesn't want all the boyfriend stuff, not to mention not getting tested (supreme disrespect toward you). You appear to want both, which could lead one to believe you could find a better fit for what you're looking for.
Is any of this driven by homesickness? Are you meeting people abroad?
posted by rhizome at 10:36 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is any of this driven by homesickness? Are you meeting people abroad?
posted by rhizome at 10:36 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: He was very stubborn about getting tested for STDs for me. Thats game over for me, anyone who refuses to do something for your safety is out.
and he does little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex and showering when I pulled him close to me for a kiss. This is not normal, he is emotionally abusive.
I realize all this sounds like he is a jerk. He does not sound like a jerk, he is a jerk.
Starting a long distance relationship with someone who is going to treat you like crap is a bad idea, find someone who will love you for the awesome person you are. This is being abusive, no question, he is using you and does not truly love you and even if he did, these things make him an asshole. DTMFA and find someone who is worth being with.
posted by Felex at 10:37 AM on December 4, 2010 [8 favorites]
and he does little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex and showering when I pulled him close to me for a kiss. This is not normal, he is emotionally abusive.
I realize all this sounds like he is a jerk. He does not sound like a jerk, he is a jerk.
Starting a long distance relationship with someone who is going to treat you like crap is a bad idea, find someone who will love you for the awesome person you are. This is being abusive, no question, he is using you and does not truly love you and even if he did, these things make him an asshole. DTMFA and find someone who is worth being with.
posted by Felex at 10:37 AM on December 4, 2010 [8 favorites]
Speaking as an introvert who's dated people even more introverted, this is not the way a person (introverted or not) treats someone they have genuine feelings for. It doesn't sound like you're pushing him away; it sounds like he was never (emotionally) there with you to begin with.
posted by oinopaponton at 10:40 AM on December 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by oinopaponton at 10:40 AM on December 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: I am meeting people abroad, but not as fast as I should be. I know I should be concentrating on that more.
I did find it very disrespectful that he put up a fight about getting tested. The only explanation I can find is that as our relationship worsened, he started to see me in a more and more negative light. He eventually did get tested; I think he felt I was nagging him or trying to control him.
posted by queens86 at 10:41 AM on December 4, 2010
I did find it very disrespectful that he put up a fight about getting tested. The only explanation I can find is that as our relationship worsened, he started to see me in a more and more negative light. He eventually did get tested; I think he felt I was nagging him or trying to control him.
posted by queens86 at 10:41 AM on December 4, 2010
Response by poster: Also, to be fair, I still slept with him without a condom even though he hadn't been tested, so maybe he didn't get how important that was to me.
posted by queens86 at 10:48 AM on December 4, 2010
posted by queens86 at 10:48 AM on December 4, 2010
Dump him. Cut off contact completely. Work on your self-esteem. Enjoy your new country. Go get tested for STDs.
Every single time you mentioned something he did that was wrong or that you didn't like, you justified it away -- it was caused either by you or external circumstances. Or you let it slide completely. (Slept with him without a condom even though he wouldn't get tested for STDs?)
He's just not that into you. You have low self-esteem so you're blaming yourself for him being a jerk.
posted by unannihilated at 10:54 AM on December 4, 2010 [12 favorites]
Every single time you mentioned something he did that was wrong or that you didn't like, you justified it away -- it was caused either by you or external circumstances. Or you let it slide completely. (Slept with him without a condom even though he wouldn't get tested for STDs?)
He's just not that into you. You have low self-esteem so you're blaming yourself for him being a jerk.
posted by unannihilated at 10:54 AM on December 4, 2010 [12 favorites]
Came in to say what unannihilated said. Stand up for yourself! Respecting yourself and your needs makes for better relationships all around. Don't waste your time on this fool -- he clearly doesn't care about you, if he views your needs as attempts to manipulate him.
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:59 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:59 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you slept with him without a condom, he 'got' EXACTLY how important it was to you.
posted by foobario at 10:59 AM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by foobario at 10:59 AM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
Best answer: You're "overanalysing" because you're trying to find a way of looking at this jerk as though he's not a jerk. Of course, you can never find the answer, because any answer other than "he's a jerk" is not there.
You're describing the problem in the terms he wants you to see it in, which is that you're "needy" because you need him not to be a jerk, and you're "overanalysing" because you're spotting ways in which he's being a jerk and asking him to change them. I'm sure he'd love it if you would just stop asking for stuff and talking and thinking and just lie down and let him get on with it. Without a condom. Or any STD testing. And then please leave, because he can't sleep with other people in his bed.
"I still slept with him without a condom even though he hadn't been tested, so maybe he didn't get how important that was to me." Maybe you didn't get how important that was to you. Maybe you didn't get how important that was. I hope your testing is up-to-date, because I can't help wondering why he didn't want you sleeping in his bed. Could it have been because he was waiting for the next shift to arrive?
He only let you sleep there for the first three weeks because he was on his best behaviour, then did the bait-and-switch. And his "best behaviour" even then was far below what is reasonable to put up with.
My suggestion, if you had a relationship worth salvaging, would be this: stop arguing. Don't argue. With him or yourself. Just do what you want, don't do what you don't want, and it's his choice to cooperate with that or leave.
But you don't have a relationship worth salvaging. This relationship has been ghastly from the very start. Please go no contact, even if it seems unnatural. Once some time has passed, you will realize how right you were to go no contact.
posted by tel3path at 11:07 AM on December 4, 2010 [13 favorites]
You're describing the problem in the terms he wants you to see it in, which is that you're "needy" because you need him not to be a jerk, and you're "overanalysing" because you're spotting ways in which he's being a jerk and asking him to change them. I'm sure he'd love it if you would just stop asking for stuff and talking and thinking and just lie down and let him get on with it. Without a condom. Or any STD testing. And then please leave, because he can't sleep with other people in his bed.
"I still slept with him without a condom even though he hadn't been tested, so maybe he didn't get how important that was to me." Maybe you didn't get how important that was to you. Maybe you didn't get how important that was. I hope your testing is up-to-date, because I can't help wondering why he didn't want you sleeping in his bed. Could it have been because he was waiting for the next shift to arrive?
He only let you sleep there for the first three weeks because he was on his best behaviour, then did the bait-and-switch. And his "best behaviour" even then was far below what is reasonable to put up with.
My suggestion, if you had a relationship worth salvaging, would be this: stop arguing. Don't argue. With him or yourself. Just do what you want, don't do what you don't want, and it's his choice to cooperate with that or leave.
But you don't have a relationship worth salvaging. This relationship has been ghastly from the very start. Please go no contact, even if it seems unnatural. Once some time has passed, you will realize how right you were to go no contact.
posted by tel3path at 11:07 AM on December 4, 2010 [13 favorites]
You're insistent that he's not a jerk, and that's now what you're asking. I don't understand what you are asking. "How do I become even more of a pushover so I can keep letting this manipulative jerk walk all over me?"
You're not overanalyzing and you're not doing anything to push this asshole away! Framed in terms of you being a nagging overanalyzing shrew, the question just doesn't make any sense because it quite clearly does not comport with reality.
posted by J. Wilson at 11:31 AM on December 4, 2010
You're not overanalyzing and you're not doing anything to push this asshole away! Framed in terms of you being a nagging overanalyzing shrew, the question just doesn't make any sense because it quite clearly does not comport with reality.
posted by J. Wilson at 11:31 AM on December 4, 2010
Little known fact: if you are dating someone who avoids intimacy and deals with relationship challenges by pulling away, or someone who just doesn't want to date but has not said so yet, then it starts to make you feel "needy, clingy, overanalzying too much—horrible and responsible."
I am the least clingy person on earth (in fact I occasionally have my own "well screw you then" pushing-someone-away response to conflict to resist). Still, in one relationship I've had, and only in this one relationship, I felt exactly as you described. It's no way to live.
posted by salvia at 11:37 AM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
I am the least clingy person on earth (in fact I occasionally have my own "well screw you then" pushing-someone-away response to conflict to resist). Still, in one relationship I've had, and only in this one relationship, I felt exactly as you described. It's no way to live.
posted by salvia at 11:37 AM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex
That's really fucking awful. Seriously. What as ass. And I hate that you've taken on all the responsibility for his crappy emotionally withholding behavior, framing it as all down to your insecurity or whatever.
If you do want to continue trying with this guy, te3path has good advice: Just do what you want, don't do what you don't want, and it's his choice to cooperate with that or leave.
I had a boyfriend in the past with whom I was terribly jealous. Crazy, controlling, over-the-top jealous. He and I both believed I was kinda nutso and it was all my problem. I'm married to a different man now, and not jealous with my husband at all. Why? Partly I've grown up, worked on myself. And partly, the previous boyfriend had crappy boundaries with other women, was emotionally withholding, did end up being a cheater, and was generally a really bad fit for pushing buttons in my personality.
Some people are just a bad combo. People can be perfectly nice and reasonable on their own and be a terrible fit together. You guys sound like a bad fit. There are other men out there who will fit with you so much better.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:39 AM on December 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
That's really fucking awful. Seriously. What as ass. And I hate that you've taken on all the responsibility for his crappy emotionally withholding behavior, framing it as all down to your insecurity or whatever.
If you do want to continue trying with this guy, te3path has good advice: Just do what you want, don't do what you don't want, and it's his choice to cooperate with that or leave.
I had a boyfriend in the past with whom I was terribly jealous. Crazy, controlling, over-the-top jealous. He and I both believed I was kinda nutso and it was all my problem. I'm married to a different man now, and not jealous with my husband at all. Why? Partly I've grown up, worked on myself. And partly, the previous boyfriend had crappy boundaries with other women, was emotionally withholding, did end up being a cheater, and was generally a really bad fit for pushing buttons in my personality.
Some people are just a bad combo. People can be perfectly nice and reasonable on their own and be a terrible fit together. You guys sound like a bad fit. There are other men out there who will fit with you so much better.
posted by Squeak Attack at 11:39 AM on December 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
General principle with these sorts of questions on AMF: If it takes more than a couple of paragraphs to explain a "relationship problem" (and there aren't children involved), then just break it off, move on, and find someone who's better/better for you.
posted by 5Q7 at 11:40 AM on December 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by 5Q7 at 11:40 AM on December 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Having needs is not the same as being needy.
Furthermore, being too needy for one person is not the same as being too needy in general.
This guy and you just don't click right. What he needs from a "relationship" just does not mix well with what you need from a relationship. It's as if you were a hard-core goth rocker and you wanted to go on a music tour with a Christian/country music fanatic -- it's not that either of you are wrong but that, given both of your set of preferences, things just will not work out well.
I'm not telling you that you cannot possibly make this relationship work. What I am telling you, however, is that you shouldn't think of this relationship failing to work as meaning that you somehow are a failure. Please examine what it is you count as a need in a relationship, and respect those needs as appropriate and worth protecting, even if they go against this particular guy's wants or needs.
posted by meese at 11:41 AM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Furthermore, being too needy for one person is not the same as being too needy in general.
This guy and you just don't click right. What he needs from a "relationship" just does not mix well with what you need from a relationship. It's as if you were a hard-core goth rocker and you wanted to go on a music tour with a Christian/country music fanatic -- it's not that either of you are wrong but that, given both of your set of preferences, things just will not work out well.
I'm not telling you that you cannot possibly make this relationship work. What I am telling you, however, is that you shouldn't think of this relationship failing to work as meaning that you somehow are a failure. Please examine what it is you count as a need in a relationship, and respect those needs as appropriate and worth protecting, even if they go against this particular guy's wants or needs.
posted by meese at 11:41 AM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
For whatever reason, his default assumption is that you are overanalyzing things and being clingy and needy. This is bad. He's not going to take your valid concerns and needs seriously because his knee-jerk reaction to anything the two of you disagree about is to say that you're being clingy or neurotic. It's like he's seeing you through a particular lens, and no matter what you do (whether you're expressing your needs in a mature, healthy way or being clingy and neurotic), he's going to see you through that lens of "she's clingy." I don't know if there's a way to wipe that slate clean.
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:43 AM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:43 AM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
Help me stop over-analyzing and pushing my boyfriend away!
You are operating under the fallacy that if you could just be better, you would get the love you are looking for. But anytime you feel the need to twist yourself into knots for someone, it is not about love. In truth, There Is Nothing Wrong With You. Know this first and more loving relationships will naturally follow.
posted by Wordwoman at 11:56 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
You are operating under the fallacy that if you could just be better, you would get the love you are looking for. But anytime you feel the need to twist yourself into knots for someone, it is not about love. In truth, There Is Nothing Wrong With You. Know this first and more loving relationships will naturally follow.
posted by Wordwoman at 11:56 AM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: - This is not worth saving because there is too too much drama - no fault on either side, just incompatibility.
It's a shame you haven't come to recognize this fact on your own. Your standards for romantic relationships and how they should be is out of whack. Work on re-calibrating your general philosophy on intimate relationships by making things like multiple disagreements or break-ups, but especially behavior that repeatedly triggers feelings of insecurity, DTMFA-territory.
- I don't know why this particular guy keeps coming back to you within a few months of a break-up, but the pattern is sending up red flags for me. It's usually a bad idea to get back together. It didn't work the first time, it usually fails quicker the second time.
Again, learn to show some discernment when these types of offers come your way. Just because someone wants to "try again" doesn't mean you should!
- You are RUINING your time abroad by cyber communicating with this fellow. (I know because I've made the same mistake. Heh.) Cease contact with this guy and engage in your current environment. PLEASE.
- I want to get back to my statement about "behavior that triggers insecurity in you."
Do you know what I mean by this? You went through some examples of behaviors and patterns this guy displays that makes you feel "he doesn't care." Hey - guess what?!? He probably doesn't care! It's not your "crazy brain" that is sending off flares trying to get your attention on this, IT"S YOUR INTUITION. You're not insecure, rather, there is a war in your psyche between what you want to believe vs. what is obviously true. A lot of the drama and discord in this relationship is coming from inside of yourself because you are desperate to believe this guys cares about you, when deep down, you know he doesn't. You care for him, so you want to believe he cares for you. You are constantly justifying gestures and statements and actions from thsi fellow that just aren't justifiable.
------------------------
Bottom line here? When someone calls you "needy" they don't care about your feelings or hold a certain type of necessary basic respect for you = DTMFA.
------------------------
Furthermore, if you could fully grok how this particular fellow doesn't quite care for you the way someone who feels true love will (meditate on this, maybe?) it would naturally negate your feelings for him. This is the "re-calibrate" thing I was referring to above. When someone treats you poorly or withholds affection from you, it should turn you off to that person. You should start finding that person unattractive. Instead, especially in our dating culture, poor treatment usually spurs us to try and win the meaner person's approval and affection. That's so backwards if you really think about it. I encourage you to really think about it!
I hope you can quickly sort out your feelings here and finally start to fully engage with your new surroundings. Good luck!
posted by jbenben at 11:57 AM on December 4, 2010 [9 favorites]
It's a shame you haven't come to recognize this fact on your own. Your standards for romantic relationships and how they should be is out of whack. Work on re-calibrating your general philosophy on intimate relationships by making things like multiple disagreements or break-ups, but especially behavior that repeatedly triggers feelings of insecurity, DTMFA-territory.
- I don't know why this particular guy keeps coming back to you within a few months of a break-up, but the pattern is sending up red flags for me. It's usually a bad idea to get back together. It didn't work the first time, it usually fails quicker the second time.
Again, learn to show some discernment when these types of offers come your way. Just because someone wants to "try again" doesn't mean you should!
- You are RUINING your time abroad by cyber communicating with this fellow. (I know because I've made the same mistake. Heh.) Cease contact with this guy and engage in your current environment. PLEASE.
- I want to get back to my statement about "behavior that triggers insecurity in you."
Do you know what I mean by this? You went through some examples of behaviors and patterns this guy displays that makes you feel "he doesn't care." Hey - guess what?!? He probably doesn't care! It's not your "crazy brain" that is sending off flares trying to get your attention on this, IT"S YOUR INTUITION. You're not insecure, rather, there is a war in your psyche between what you want to believe vs. what is obviously true. A lot of the drama and discord in this relationship is coming from inside of yourself because you are desperate to believe this guys cares about you, when deep down, you know he doesn't. You care for him, so you want to believe he cares for you. You are constantly justifying gestures and statements and actions from thsi fellow that just aren't justifiable.
------------------------
Bottom line here? When someone calls you "needy" they don't care about your feelings or hold a certain type of necessary basic respect for you = DTMFA.
------------------------
Furthermore, if you could fully grok how this particular fellow doesn't quite care for you the way someone who feels true love will (meditate on this, maybe?) it would naturally negate your feelings for him. This is the "re-calibrate" thing I was referring to above. When someone treats you poorly or withholds affection from you, it should turn you off to that person. You should start finding that person unattractive. Instead, especially in our dating culture, poor treatment usually spurs us to try and win the meaner person's approval and affection. That's so backwards if you really think about it. I encourage you to really think about it!
I hope you can quickly sort out your feelings here and finally start to fully engage with your new surroundings. Good luck!
posted by jbenben at 11:57 AM on December 4, 2010 [9 favorites]
Echoing salvia. It's not you, it's him. Trust me. Dump the jerk and go find someone as enthusiastic and invested as you are. You'll be amazed at how quickly it becomes apparent that, in a good relationship with someone who actually wants to be with you, the "neediness" you're beating yourself up over totally ceases to be an issue. There's a difference between being needy and feeling insecure in a situation for very good reason. Time to move on and get on with having your (reasonable) expectations met! You'll be so much happier when you do.
posted by teamparka at 11:57 AM on December 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by teamparka at 11:57 AM on December 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
I am meeting people abroad, but not as fast as I should be.
So, look, it sounds like you've got a couple things you're beating yourself up over, and I hope it's not too presumptuous of me if I point out what looks like a pattern. You're blaming yourself for the fact that your boyfriend is distant and obnoxious. You're blaming yourself for not trusting your (distant, obnoxious, honestly pretty untrustworthy-sounding) boyfriend. And now too you're blaming yourself for being lonely.
This whole blaming-yourself schtick sounds really unproductive and I'd encourage you to cut it out.
You're allowed to have bad feelings and they don't make you a bad person. It might help a lot in figuring out what to do next if you could honestly say to yourself, "Okay, it sucks that this guy makes me feel like dirt, and it sucks that I'm far away from home, and it sucks that I don't have good friends here yet. But I'm not defined by all that sucky stuff. I'm totally awesome and I deserve better."
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:58 AM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
So, look, it sounds like you've got a couple things you're beating yourself up over, and I hope it's not too presumptuous of me if I point out what looks like a pattern. You're blaming yourself for the fact that your boyfriend is distant and obnoxious. You're blaming yourself for not trusting your (distant, obnoxious, honestly pretty untrustworthy-sounding) boyfriend. And now too you're blaming yourself for being lonely.
This whole blaming-yourself schtick sounds really unproductive and I'd encourage you to cut it out.
You're allowed to have bad feelings and they don't make you a bad person. It might help a lot in figuring out what to do next if you could honestly say to yourself, "Okay, it sucks that this guy makes me feel like dirt, and it sucks that I'm far away from home, and it sucks that I don't have good friends here yet. But I'm not defined by all that sucky stuff. I'm totally awesome and I deserve better."
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:58 AM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
P.S. The reason he likes you now is that you're too far away to offer up a real relationship. Nobody wants to be alone and loveless, even people who are afraid of intimacy or of "being smothered." Now that you're too far away to pose any threat of intimacy or smothering, you're a very safe person to have a crush on. I would be very skeptical of his desire to be together again until you are in the same town. If at that point, he still says he's sorry for pushing you away before, then consider believing it. But as long as you're not interested, you'll be attractive, so be prepared that as soon as you become interested again, he may feel smothered and like he needs more space from your "clinginess." So be prepared to be rejected again for wanting a real relationship.
(That said, if you have three other partners who say you are being clingy, then you have some introspection to do. But until then, assume it's the way you relate specifically with this guy.)
posted by salvia at 12:02 PM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
(That said, if you have three other partners who say you are being clingy, then you have some introspection to do. But until then, assume it's the way you relate specifically with this guy.)
posted by salvia at 12:02 PM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh whoops, I finished the question and see that he's already pulling away again after you took him back. If you want to wait until after finals to see, then great. Find some major project to undertake over the next three weeks. But after that it will be that he needs to go away and be with family for the holidays. And after that it will be the stress of starting a new semester. And after that it will be because you're putting too much pressure on him about Valentine's Day. And after that, midterms....
posted by salvia at 12:07 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 12:07 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
You're not over-analyzing! He is not on your side! People who tell you they are afraid of using you are usually just setting you up to be used. He is toying with you and making you into a confused submissive irrational person because you have to change your thinking to find his behavior acceptable, and it really is not! People do not treat people they care about the way he treats you.
Imagine a very nasty person with a puppy, and they call it and it comes to them and half the time they give it a treat and half the time they smack it hard in the face. The puppy will still keep on coming, but will often develop a nervous shaking.
Don't waste any time on this man, he is a cruel, manipulative, and you deserve far better.
posted by meepmeow at 12:34 PM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
Imagine a very nasty person with a puppy, and they call it and it comes to them and half the time they give it a treat and half the time they smack it hard in the face. The puppy will still keep on coming, but will often develop a nervous shaking.
Don't waste any time on this man, he is a cruel, manipulative, and you deserve far better.
posted by meepmeow at 12:34 PM on December 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
This sounds like a mess. Don't bother trying to salvage this. Find someone in the country you are in.
posted by empath at 12:51 PM on December 4, 2010
posted by empath at 12:51 PM on December 4, 2010
Ugh, re-read your post. Really. He's never going to be as into you as you are into him. It sounds like he's keeping you around and stringing you along because, why not? You'll sleep with him no matter how crappy he treats you. If he cared about you, he would talk to you about your insecurities, he'd want to snuggle after sex, he'd get tested sooner because his and your health would be important to him, he wouldn't tell you to stop obsessing and he'd want to talk about the future with you. Stop brushing it off like it's your crazy brain that's causing this. The only thing crazy about your brain is that it keeps thinking and hoping that he will somehow get better after finals. He won't. You'll have to ask him to pay more attention to you, and even if he does, it won't last more than a week, and do you really want someone who you'll have to keep begging to be nice to you??
Don't bother being nice to him during finals, just drop him completely, right now. He'll figure out a way to get by without your niceness. Focus on making friends with actual nice people now, gain some confidence from those new frienships, and while it'll be hard at first, in several weeks you'll realize how much happier you are if you're not obsessed over a doomed relationship with some guy who doesn't seem to give a shit about how you feel.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 12:58 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't bother being nice to him during finals, just drop him completely, right now. He'll figure out a way to get by without your niceness. Focus on making friends with actual nice people now, gain some confidence from those new frienships, and while it'll be hard at first, in several weeks you'll realize how much happier you are if you're not obsessed over a doomed relationship with some guy who doesn't seem to give a shit about how you feel.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 12:58 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There's nothing wrong with you, and there's nothing unreasonable about what you are asking for from him. It doesn't sound like your expectations are too high. It does sound like his actions are very hurtful and triggering for you, though, and make you want to try to earn his approval and affection.
Think of it like this: Guy A and Girl B get together, have sex, and he pushes her away afterwards and calls her needy. Girl B has low self-esteem or is triggered or is simply very sensitive to rejection. She takes it personally and tries to be less needy.
Repeat the scenario with Girl C, who has higher self-esteem, and isn't so triggered or sensitive to rejection. Maybe she's had better relationships so has a clearer understanding of how a good man behaves. Her reaction might be more like "WTF, what an asshole!" and then she leaves. Girl B eventually leaves too. It just takes her a little longer.
There's no third option. There's no Girl D who's going to say, "Seeya, Dude. Cuddling really is kinda yucky, and I hate sleeping together too! I just love how compatible we are, since we both really hate intimacy. Bye, have a great night!" Two people like that aren't going to even wind up in the same room together, let alone the same bed.
This guy is not relationship material. It seems like he wants to be loved but not to love in return. He admitted he had been distant and pushed me away, said he had been trying not to get attached because I was always on the verge of leaving, but that he had gotten more attached than he thought he had let himself.
Classic ambivalent commitmentphobia right there. You will always be having to play hard to get in order for him to want you. Some relationship books will tell you that this is normal and it's the woman's job (or the job of the partner who wants more, in general), but these play on gender stereotypes and reinforce the shitty heteronormative roles in which the woman (or more invested partner) has to do all the emotional work and the man (or less invested partner) gets to do whatever s/he wants. Guys (and women) like this come on strong when they think they can't have you but as soon as you get real with them they withdraw. They may be perfectly nice people as friends and colleagues but a total headache to deal with in relationships. They can be kind to animals and children and even run a soup kitchen, and they can feel very real emotions that play on your sympathies. The problem is that they are not healthy as partners, for all their charisma and charm.
There are guys out there who won't make you jump through these hoops and won't put you through this drama. They are looking for you, trust me.
And if anyone tells you that a man is treating you badly because "He's Just Not That Into You," think about what they are implying. They're implying that this same man, who is a jerk to you, is going to completely change and be nice to someone he is "into." They are implying that it's the natural order of things, and perfectly acceptable, if a man treats a woman like garbage because he's not "into" her. Think about it -- would you respect a man who treated the women before you like crap, even if he treats you well?
A decent person would not treat anyone like this, whether "into" them or not. If a decent person (one who has taken the time to know oneself well and develop high self-esteem, depth of character, and compassion) isn't "that into" someone, s/he will deal with that honorably. That means that as soon as they realize they're not that into someone, they'll break it off respectfully and assertively, not drag the other person through the mud.
Your guy here is one of two things. Given the benefit of the doubt, he is confused, wishy-washy, and ambivalent about whether or not he is into you because of his own issues. What would a decent person do if they realized they were like that? They'd step away from the relationship, respectfully, to work on their issues and not inflict their confused, crazy-making self on someone who's looking for a real relationship. They'd risk losing you now in order to find themselves and not hurting you more by dragging it out.
Alternatively, he's playing you. If so, to me, that says he has no character.
Once more, I recommend BaggageReclaim. You are worth more and you deserve better!
posted by xenophile at 1:57 PM on December 4, 2010 [22 favorites]
Think of it like this: Guy A and Girl B get together, have sex, and he pushes her away afterwards and calls her needy. Girl B has low self-esteem or is triggered or is simply very sensitive to rejection. She takes it personally and tries to be less needy.
Repeat the scenario with Girl C, who has higher self-esteem, and isn't so triggered or sensitive to rejection. Maybe she's had better relationships so has a clearer understanding of how a good man behaves. Her reaction might be more like "WTF, what an asshole!" and then she leaves. Girl B eventually leaves too. It just takes her a little longer.
There's no third option. There's no Girl D who's going to say, "Seeya, Dude. Cuddling really is kinda yucky, and I hate sleeping together too! I just love how compatible we are, since we both really hate intimacy. Bye, have a great night!" Two people like that aren't going to even wind up in the same room together, let alone the same bed.
This guy is not relationship material. It seems like he wants to be loved but not to love in return. He admitted he had been distant and pushed me away, said he had been trying not to get attached because I was always on the verge of leaving, but that he had gotten more attached than he thought he had let himself.
Classic ambivalent commitmentphobia right there. You will always be having to play hard to get in order for him to want you. Some relationship books will tell you that this is normal and it's the woman's job (or the job of the partner who wants more, in general), but these play on gender stereotypes and reinforce the shitty heteronormative roles in which the woman (or more invested partner) has to do all the emotional work and the man (or less invested partner) gets to do whatever s/he wants. Guys (and women) like this come on strong when they think they can't have you but as soon as you get real with them they withdraw. They may be perfectly nice people as friends and colleagues but a total headache to deal with in relationships. They can be kind to animals and children and even run a soup kitchen, and they can feel very real emotions that play on your sympathies. The problem is that they are not healthy as partners, for all their charisma and charm.
There are guys out there who won't make you jump through these hoops and won't put you through this drama. They are looking for you, trust me.
And if anyone tells you that a man is treating you badly because "He's Just Not That Into You," think about what they are implying. They're implying that this same man, who is a jerk to you, is going to completely change and be nice to someone he is "into." They are implying that it's the natural order of things, and perfectly acceptable, if a man treats a woman like garbage because he's not "into" her. Think about it -- would you respect a man who treated the women before you like crap, even if he treats you well?
A decent person would not treat anyone like this, whether "into" them or not. If a decent person (one who has taken the time to know oneself well and develop high self-esteem, depth of character, and compassion) isn't "that into" someone, s/he will deal with that honorably. That means that as soon as they realize they're not that into someone, they'll break it off respectfully and assertively, not drag the other person through the mud.
Your guy here is one of two things. Given the benefit of the doubt, he is confused, wishy-washy, and ambivalent about whether or not he is into you because of his own issues. What would a decent person do if they realized they were like that? They'd step away from the relationship, respectfully, to work on their issues and not inflict their confused, crazy-making self on someone who's looking for a real relationship. They'd risk losing you now in order to find themselves and not hurting you more by dragging it out.
Alternatively, he's playing you. If so, to me, that says he has no character.
Once more, I recommend BaggageReclaim. You are worth more and you deserve better!
posted by xenophile at 1:57 PM on December 4, 2010 [22 favorites]
I can't favorite the above hard enough. This should be required reading every time we get these drama filled relationship ask me's.
posted by Jubey at 2:12 PM on December 4, 2010
posted by Jubey at 2:12 PM on December 4, 2010
Sorry, that was xenophiles comment i was referring to.
posted by Jubey at 2:13 PM on December 4, 2010
posted by Jubey at 2:13 PM on December 4, 2010
Response by poster: Wow. You guys are amazing! I have never received such unequivocal support for my pov! Even my aunt and uncle (who I was living with the first time we dated) told me to chill out and stop being so needy with him.
I agree, I don't expect three hours a day right now because I know he is busy, but at the same time he hasn't answered an email I sent him two nights ago. The email didn't need an answer (it was more like have a good day tomorrow, hope you get a lot done), but it still would be nice to feel like he at least wants to check in with me.
I did ask him last time we talked if this was a new permanent state (talking less) and he said no, that he was really busy. I don't know if asking him that, rightly or not, made him feel pressured. I don't think it would bother me as much if we didn't have all the history that made me feel so neglected.
posted by queens86 at 2:18 PM on December 4, 2010
I agree, I don't expect three hours a day right now because I know he is busy, but at the same time he hasn't answered an email I sent him two nights ago. The email didn't need an answer (it was more like have a good day tomorrow, hope you get a lot done), but it still would be nice to feel like he at least wants to check in with me.
I did ask him last time we talked if this was a new permanent state (talking less) and he said no, that he was really busy. I don't know if asking him that, rightly or not, made him feel pressured. I don't think it would bother me as much if we didn't have all the history that made me feel so neglected.
posted by queens86 at 2:18 PM on December 4, 2010
The bad history will haunt your feelings in this relationship. I had a long answe written but the Internet ate it. Break it off with him completely. You want this relationship to be a higher priority than he will make it. He wants attention when it's convenient and sex when he wants it. He doesn't respect your boundaries and may not really respect you.
posted by elpea at 2:25 PM on December 4, 2010
posted by elpea at 2:25 PM on December 4, 2010
Hey queens86 - I read your update. Did you read xenophile's answer?
xenophile said it much better than the rest of us. You should commit that entire answer to heart. If you are having trouble squaring the time this guy spends communicating with you vs. all the times he's made you feel shitty, re-read this statement from xenophile's answer until you truly understand how it applies here:
"It seems like he wants to be loved but not to love in return."
Emphasis mine. Because that whole sentiment kinda explains it, don't you think?
posted by jbenben at 2:48 PM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
xenophile said it much better than the rest of us. You should commit that entire answer to heart. If you are having trouble squaring the time this guy spends communicating with you vs. all the times he's made you feel shitty, re-read this statement from xenophile's answer until you truly understand how it applies here:
"It seems like he wants to be loved but not to love in return."
Emphasis mine. Because that whole sentiment kinda explains it, don't you think?
posted by jbenben at 2:48 PM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: rope-rider's comment basically sums up the reasons I haven't broken up with him. According to the bf, he is into me and always has been (except when stressed by my overreacting behavior). He admitted that he didn't show me he cared enough, but he is also just bad at expressing his emotions--he's pretty stoic, in general, but I know he can do it because he has. I worry that my anxiety is a self-fulfilling prophecy that pushes him away. I can't really reconcile the fact that he called me needy, since I hadn't reacted strongly to anything he had done in a while, but he admits he can be insensitive and he also says sometimes that it isn't all me, that he knows he's not affectionate and that he can be a hard person to deal with. So at least there's that.
On the other hand, even if he really does care about me, I don't know how happy we would be together long-term given our radically different personalities.
posted by queens86 at 3:17 PM on December 4, 2010
On the other hand, even if he really does care about me, I don't know how happy we would be together long-term given our radically different personalities.
posted by queens86 at 3:17 PM on December 4, 2010
He sounds like he has some form of obsessive compulsive disorder, which might explain the showering and the bed stuff and what you are referring to as introversion. But you are not being needy and demanding— he's being weird and jerkish. You aren't creating a self fulfilling prophecy by being too clingy— he's making you feel insecure because he's not meeting your perfectly normal needs.
posted by Maias at 3:28 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Maias at 3:28 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Now, I realize all this sounds like he is a jerk. He’s not!
I stopped reading here, so forgive me if I'm covering well-trod ground.
This is bullshit. How do I know? Because I've dated guys before that got really weird about getting tested for STDs at the beginning of our relationship, and a few months later turned around and told me I was needy when I was just, y'know, wanted them to reciprocate the amount of energy I was putting in the relationship. Their jerkiness only fed my insecurity, and the whole being needy thing turned into a self-fulfilling, self-esteem sucking, borderline-emotionally abusive prophecy.
I could go into much more gorey details (if you want more, MeFi mail me), but suffice to say after dating one too many jerks who a) acted like big entitled babies about getting tested and b) tried to tell me my own emotional needs weren't legit, I went on a hardcore dating sabbatical for 3 months, finally defined "being a jerk" and "not getting tested" as dealbreakers, and have been a much happier camper for it ever since.
Sorry if this is blunt, but it drives me crazy to see others pushed and pulled around by this crap, because I suffered for it myself for way too long. Get out now while you can, and stop making excuses.
posted by mostly vowels at 3:58 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I stopped reading here, so forgive me if I'm covering well-trod ground.
This is bullshit. How do I know? Because I've dated guys before that got really weird about getting tested for STDs at the beginning of our relationship, and a few months later turned around and told me I was needy when I was just, y'know, wanted them to reciprocate the amount of energy I was putting in the relationship. Their jerkiness only fed my insecurity, and the whole being needy thing turned into a self-fulfilling, self-esteem sucking, borderline-emotionally abusive prophecy.
I could go into much more gorey details (if you want more, MeFi mail me), but suffice to say after dating one too many jerks who a) acted like big entitled babies about getting tested and b) tried to tell me my own emotional needs weren't legit, I went on a hardcore dating sabbatical for 3 months, finally defined "being a jerk" and "not getting tested" as dealbreakers, and have been a much happier camper for it ever since.
Sorry if this is blunt, but it drives me crazy to see others pushed and pulled around by this crap, because I suffered for it myself for way too long. Get out now while you can, and stop making excuses.
posted by mostly vowels at 3:58 PM on December 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
What xenophile said, to add to the chorus. Stuff like He's Just Not That Into You may contain useful information, but the information isn't well enough categorized into A: Respectful Behaviours That Nonetheless Indicate Low Or Waning Enthusiasm or B: Subpar Behaviours Indicating That You Shouldn't Be Into Him Regardless Of How He Feels Or Claims To Feel About You or C: Flat-Out Abusive, Gross, Totally Unacceptable Behaviours That Mark Him As Damaged Goods.
I'd say that spending only an hour a day on the phone with you is, well, quite a lot actually. That's a sign of being into you.
The occasional unanswered email, especially if the email didn't require an answer? Neutral. Signifies nothing.
You being the one who initiates most of the contact? Category A.
Complaining that you are needy, clingy, etc? Even if there is a grain of truth to this, and even if it is not expressed in the seemingly borderline abusive way you've described? Category B, because the best possible interpretation is that you have incompatible cling levels and are unlikely to get along.
Refusing to let you sleep there? Category C, especially when combined with behaviours cited as examples of Category B above. Those B behaviours look a lot more C-ish in combination with this C behaviour.
Refusing to get STD tested and insisting on unprotected sex? Definite C-double-minus. Even one C behaviour should lead directly to a DTMFA.
I think you should get a Miss Manners book and start reading her columns. This will help you to interpret much more clearly the signs of respect and contempt in all your relationships. It's all kinds of useful, and very entertaining.
posted by tel3path at 4:02 PM on December 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'd say that spending only an hour a day on the phone with you is, well, quite a lot actually. That's a sign of being into you.
The occasional unanswered email, especially if the email didn't require an answer? Neutral. Signifies nothing.
You being the one who initiates most of the contact? Category A.
Complaining that you are needy, clingy, etc? Even if there is a grain of truth to this, and even if it is not expressed in the seemingly borderline abusive way you've described? Category B, because the best possible interpretation is that you have incompatible cling levels and are unlikely to get along.
Refusing to let you sleep there? Category C, especially when combined with behaviours cited as examples of Category B above. Those B behaviours look a lot more C-ish in combination with this C behaviour.
Refusing to get STD tested and insisting on unprotected sex? Definite C-double-minus. Even one C behaviour should lead directly to a DTMFA.
I think you should get a Miss Manners book and start reading her columns. This will help you to interpret much more clearly the signs of respect and contempt in all your relationships. It's all kinds of useful, and very entertaining.
posted by tel3path at 4:02 PM on December 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
"he's pretty stoic, in general" Stoicism is characterized by not complaining and not being fussy. Taking a shower because you touched him, and not liking that it's nighttime and you're sleeping in his bed just because you had sex with him, are not behaviours that fit the description of stoicism.
I notice that you, not he, have described him as "stoic". He, on the other hand, has described himself as "insensitive", "not affectionate" and "a hard person to deal with". Well, then, why does he think he deserves to be in a relationship if by his own admission he doesn't know how to behave? And then when you react to this stuff, he pathologizes you by calling you needy and anxious and trying to make it your problem instead of working on himself?
You can't deal with this stuff for him. He has to take care of his own problems and become worthy of having a girlfriend. Trying to drag emotional expression out of him is not something you can usefully do with someone who's "not good at expressing his emotions" and cooperating with his efforts to make you the problem is not going to solve his problems. I do realize that it's culturally expected for women to become therapists for their messed-up menfolk, but all that does is keep the menfolk messed-up and the women knocking themselves out to please guys who will never appreciate it. Do him a favour and don't do him any favours. He's an adult who needs to learn that mistreating people will get him rejected.
posted by tel3path at 4:16 PM on December 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
I notice that you, not he, have described him as "stoic". He, on the other hand, has described himself as "insensitive", "not affectionate" and "a hard person to deal with". Well, then, why does he think he deserves to be in a relationship if by his own admission he doesn't know how to behave? And then when you react to this stuff, he pathologizes you by calling you needy and anxious and trying to make it your problem instead of working on himself?
You can't deal with this stuff for him. He has to take care of his own problems and become worthy of having a girlfriend. Trying to drag emotional expression out of him is not something you can usefully do with someone who's "not good at expressing his emotions" and cooperating with his efforts to make you the problem is not going to solve his problems. I do realize that it's culturally expected for women to become therapists for their messed-up menfolk, but all that does is keep the menfolk messed-up and the women knocking themselves out to please guys who will never appreciate it. Do him a favour and don't do him any favours. He's an adult who needs to learn that mistreating people will get him rejected.
posted by tel3path at 4:16 PM on December 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Oh, and. One more thing. The catchphrase "he's just not that into you", when applied indiscriminately, can encourage overanalysis.
It can go a little something like this: guy performs jerk-indicative behaviour -> girl weighs up significance of behaviour within overall context of relationship -> girl puzzled as to whether this is bad enough to take action and, if so, what -> community affirms that behaviour is, indeed, deal-breakingly bad
So far, so good. But when this is expressed in terms of "he's just not that into you", however constructively it's meant, it literally adds insult to injury. It's like, DUH, you dense girl, he's obviously rejecting you by doing this and you are just too DENSE and unable to take a HINT to see it! Therefore, if you don't grasp that YOU'VE BEEN REJECTED and leave like he OBVIOUSLY wants you to, he must be justified in continuing to treat you badly while still shagging you, because he's a GUY and everyone knows that's what GUYS do! They couldn't possibly be expected to just, like, break up with you or anything, because then you might not shag them any more (although even that seems to be a relatively small risk in today's dating culture).
I think the phrase "he's just not that into you" should, except where literally true, be replaced with "it's just not good enough". It takes the emphasis off trying to read his mind (which, being unknowable, leads to rumination) and onto your own standards of acceptable treatment.
posted by tel3path at 4:54 AM on December 5, 2010 [9 favorites]
It can go a little something like this: guy performs jerk-indicative behaviour -> girl weighs up significance of behaviour within overall context of relationship -> girl puzzled as to whether this is bad enough to take action and, if so, what -> community affirms that behaviour is, indeed, deal-breakingly bad
So far, so good. But when this is expressed in terms of "he's just not that into you", however constructively it's meant, it literally adds insult to injury. It's like, DUH, you dense girl, he's obviously rejecting you by doing this and you are just too DENSE and unable to take a HINT to see it! Therefore, if you don't grasp that YOU'VE BEEN REJECTED and leave like he OBVIOUSLY wants you to, he must be justified in continuing to treat you badly while still shagging you, because he's a GUY and everyone knows that's what GUYS do! They couldn't possibly be expected to just, like, break up with you or anything, because then you might not shag them any more (although even that seems to be a relatively small risk in today's dating culture).
I think the phrase "he's just not that into you" should, except where literally true, be replaced with "it's just not good enough". It takes the emphasis off trying to read his mind (which, being unknowable, leads to rumination) and onto your own standards of acceptable treatment.
posted by tel3path at 4:54 AM on December 5, 2010 [9 favorites]
He was very stubborn about getting tested for STDs for me
And yet, you sleep with him. Why? You are one half of the relationship and your actions contribute to that. You are as much to be blamed as he is on this one. You are responsible for yourself.
and he does little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex and showering when I pulled him close to me for a kiss (he only did this once and recently apologized for it, said if I ever feel rejected by him to let him know).
That's an odd thing to say but you also say he apologized for it. I would dismiss that one incident here because its hard to know how sincere his apology was.
Generally speaking, from your question it sounds like the two of you are just incompatible. I don't get the time frame of your entire relationship and given the guy's personality, it is bound to be important. You have given lots of details about his personality and it makes perfect sense that he is not as intimate as your are. But you also sound like a young woman who could certainly boost her self-esteem and know herself before jumping into relationships and meeting men "as fast" as you can (!!!!!!). Sounds like you are just about interested in *any* man. Why is that? It is part of growing up and we all have our insecurities and anxieties, especially at your age. But if you think this guy is the only one to be blamed here, you will surely spend the next couple of years doing the same things and repeating the same behaviours. If you know someone is an introvert, be aware that it will come with certain other qualities you may or may not like. If you cannot deal with it, it is YOUR responsibility to end the relationship. The guy does not automatically become a jerk for not being as intimate and cuddly as you would like. Be aware that people are different and they express their emotions differently. If you are not getting what you like, cut your losses but blame the incompatibility, not the individual.
If I wasn't more clear above, again, I would go against all the people who call this guy a jerk and dismiss the needy comment as a one-time remark. I think no one is helping you by suggesting you to dump him and not telling you where YOU are wrong and immature. From your favourites, I already get a feeling that you are more attuned to just one side of the story.
posted by xm at 11:33 AM on December 5, 2010
And yet, you sleep with him. Why? You are one half of the relationship and your actions contribute to that. You are as much to be blamed as he is on this one. You are responsible for yourself.
and he does little annoying things like calling me “needy” after sex and showering when I pulled him close to me for a kiss (he only did this once and recently apologized for it, said if I ever feel rejected by him to let him know).
That's an odd thing to say but you also say he apologized for it. I would dismiss that one incident here because its hard to know how sincere his apology was.
Generally speaking, from your question it sounds like the two of you are just incompatible. I don't get the time frame of your entire relationship and given the guy's personality, it is bound to be important. You have given lots of details about his personality and it makes perfect sense that he is not as intimate as your are. But you also sound like a young woman who could certainly boost her self-esteem and know herself before jumping into relationships and meeting men "as fast" as you can (!!!!!!). Sounds like you are just about interested in *any* man. Why is that? It is part of growing up and we all have our insecurities and anxieties, especially at your age. But if you think this guy is the only one to be blamed here, you will surely spend the next couple of years doing the same things and repeating the same behaviours. If you know someone is an introvert, be aware that it will come with certain other qualities you may or may not like. If you cannot deal with it, it is YOUR responsibility to end the relationship. The guy does not automatically become a jerk for not being as intimate and cuddly as you would like. Be aware that people are different and they express their emotions differently. If you are not getting what you like, cut your losses but blame the incompatibility, not the individual.
If I wasn't more clear above, again, I would go against all the people who call this guy a jerk and dismiss the needy comment as a one-time remark. I think no one is helping you by suggesting you to dump him and not telling you where YOU are wrong and immature. From your favourites, I already get a feeling that you are more attuned to just one side of the story.
posted by xm at 11:33 AM on December 5, 2010
Response by poster: To xm: I do appreciate the other side! I think your comment may have a lot of truth in it, as I can't dismiss him as a jerk, really. I have been in truly bad relationships, and he is not like that at all. However, I do think that he does a lot of things that I don't like, and then I try and negate how I feel about them, ie sleeping over. He may very well not be being a jerk about that, but I was still bothered by it.
Also, just to clarify, I am not meeting men as fast as I can, it was people as fast as I can! I definitely don't date a whole lot and am actually pretty picky about who I do end up dating.
posted by queens86 at 2:07 PM on December 5, 2010
Also, just to clarify, I am not meeting men as fast as I can, it was people as fast as I can! I definitely don't date a whole lot and am actually pretty picky about who I do end up dating.
posted by queens86 at 2:07 PM on December 5, 2010
I would go against all the people who call this guy a jerk and dismiss the needy comment as a one-time remark. I think no one is helping you by suggesting you to dump him and not telling you where YOU are wrong and immature.
xm, and queens86, there are people whose big weakness is that they give too much credence to bullshit and take too much responsibility when problems arise in relationships. Those saying DTMFA are not saying "and there's nothing for you to learn here, queens86, you are perfect." Being gullible, having low self-esteem, not trusting oneself and having the courage of ones convictions, not standing up for oneself -- those are weaknesses too. In fact, those problems are more likely to lead to someone being in a bad relationship than a problem of being needy (wanting a lot of closeness and communication) and non-apologetically seeking it. Is queens86's weakness that she is needy? Or is it that she takes this dude seriously when he calls her needy, selling out her own interests?
posted by salvia at 2:38 PM on December 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
xm, and queens86, there are people whose big weakness is that they give too much credence to bullshit and take too much responsibility when problems arise in relationships. Those saying DTMFA are not saying "and there's nothing for you to learn here, queens86, you are perfect." Being gullible, having low self-esteem, not trusting oneself and having the courage of ones convictions, not standing up for oneself -- those are weaknesses too. In fact, those problems are more likely to lead to someone being in a bad relationship than a problem of being needy (wanting a lot of closeness and communication) and non-apologetically seeking it. Is queens86's weakness that she is needy? Or is it that she takes this dude seriously when he calls her needy, selling out her own interests?
posted by salvia at 2:38 PM on December 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Why not just give up, for now --- curtail your expectations of ANYTHING at this point. Maybe, if you end up in the same city as each other, under more favorable circumstances, you can see if it works out.
But under these circumstances it doesn't really make a lot of sense to obsess over this dude. The raw material of a relationship just isn't present right now.
posted by jayder at 10:34 AM on December 4, 2010 [2 favorites]