Application stress!
December 2, 2010 12:52 PM   Subscribe

Should I throw in the towel?

Dear Metafilter,

I need y'all to yell some sense into me, because I am slogging through grad school applications and I am losing my motivation to continue.

I started the process fairly early- have taken GREs on time, have letters of rec from professors, am trying to thoughtfully get everything done. However, the process of applying is sort of showing me that maybe a humanities PhD is not right for me. My academic writing is not nearly up to snuff, and my statement of purpose requires a lot more focus and specialization than I am prepared to articulate. Writing it is like banging my head against a brick wall, and I still haven't finished.

I thought I wanted to go because I love writing about and discussing literature. You know, books. Turns out, I have to become this incredibly arcane specialist and deal with even more petty office politics and depressing job prospects than I have to deal with now. I'm not sure it's the right move. I always saw myself as some kind of English scholar, and now it's like I'm really really questioning what I'm good at. I don't know if I'm enough of a motivated self-starter to get through the whole process, and I am not willing to give up EVERYTHING to succeed in academia.

My professors have all warned me to proceed carefully and go into this with my eyes open - some even told me point blank not to do it. I have actually not spoken to a single English PhD at any stage (student, ABD, prof, some non-academics) who advises me to do it.

(Not to mention all those oft-repeated warnings here about going to grad school in the humanities. I hear you, I promise.)

However, there is a part of my brain that will not let this rest- pride, stubbornness, uncertainty about what I actually want to do next. I'm driving my family and boyfriend up the wall with stress and indecision - something I, unfortunately, am prone to and am trying very hard to work on about myself. I had planned to apply to multiple kinds of grad programs anyway (Jewish education programs - these are just due first), but I'm utterly and completely exhausted. And insane. I was sort of going to leave the decision up to fate once I saw where I got in - or didn't. (I'm also coping with a death in my family, which sort of threw things off course for a bit and added to the stress.)

Metafilter, I guess my question is - should I go ahead and send in the apps to see where the chips fall? If I stop now, is it stupid for me to feel like a quitter? It'll feel like I've wasted the past 3-4 months and admitting defeat ... but is there a value in continuing if I'm already pretty sure I won't go? Maybe I just need y'all to kick me in the ass and tell me to GET ER DONE and decide later? I'm at a stage where I need MORE opportunities, not fewer.

Many many many thanks. As always.
posted by bookgirl18 to Education (37 answers total) 6 users marked this as a favorite
 
No, you should not apply. I tutor GRE students and help with the admissions process, too, and I would not advise that anyone attempt a PhD in humanities. Especially someone who isn't "willing to give up EVERYTHING to succeed in academia".

Have you read this article from the Chronicle of Higher Education?

Stopping the application process wouldn't be quitting: it would be making a wise choice that will prevent you from wasting years of your life in pursuit of a goal that you likely won't reach.

You're doing this backwards: Don't apply to a bunch of different types of programs and decide what you want to do. Instead, decide what you want to do, and then pursue that. If you can't figure out what you want to do, avoid the (financial and temporal) expense of grad school and get a job. Applying to a bunch of grad schools is just delaying that decision.
posted by griseus at 1:02 PM on December 2, 2010 [5 favorites]


I send electronic versions of hugs in your direction. I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that -- and this is coming from a PhD candidate (ABD) in English lit -- these questions don't go away even once you're in the program. "Show I be doing this?" questions come up during the stressful build-up to all the hoops you jump; or, if you're me, they appear to fill the anxiety void once those hoops have been jumped.

It seems to me there is no 'right' answer here -- appropriate for the humanities, eh? Keep talking to people in the real world that you trust. There are jobs for Humanities PhDs, but they're not all in academia, and they're not all necessarily worth taking 4-6 years away from your income-earning years for.

The only 'wrong' decision, in my opinion, would be to do an unfunded PhD.

Good luck!
posted by monkeymonkey at 1:05 PM on December 2, 2010


"*Should* I be doing this?", rather.
posted by monkeymonkey at 1:05 PM on December 2, 2010


If you get accepted somewhere, that means that someone else has either been rejected or waitlisted. Why put that person through that stress and disappointment if you're not going to go anyway?
posted by oinopaponton at 1:06 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I thought I wanted to go because I love writing about and discussing literature. You know, books. Turns out, I have to become this incredibly arcane specialist and deal with even more petty office politics and depressing job prospects than I have to deal with now.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. These are the things I wish I had known before starting a Ph.D. Terrible Job prospects, terrible office politics, low pay, low employability, ad nauseum. Grad school in the humanities and social sciences is a horrible, horrible racket. I could write volumes, but I'd just be repeating what has been written hundreds or thousands of times before, on MetaFilter or elsewhere. If you're having these doubts now, get out. Do it before you've wasted hours and hours of your time and sanity on applications.


I'm not sure it's the right move.

It's not.
posted by The Michael The at 1:06 PM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


Probably not, for all the reasons you articulated (unless you are super wealthy, and this is just a fun diversion). I got to the end game in my apps for literature Ph.D.s back in the day, and ultimately canned it after being named to a search committee for the English department at my college. I read 300 applications for the position, from high and low around the country. Most were pretty damn good. A few were great. A couple were pretty bad. It was a niche position (I can't remember exactly what--colonial American literature or something), and it was staggering how many poor chumps had dedicated their lives to some minute specialty and there was STILL 300 people fighting for this one little job.

Ugh.

Sorry.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 1:09 PM on December 2, 2010


No effort is wasted if the result is you know a little more about yourself.

Regarding this decision, you need to dig deep and get in touch with your beliefs. Belief about who you are, why you are here and what your life really mean. By reaching for the axiom of your life, you will be able to determine your goals and priorities. For example, if you deeply belief that you must be an English PhD, that you would not forgive yourself, on your death bed, had you not accomplish this; then by all means, an English PhD is part of your life goal and you should pursue that with zeal. The second consideration is priority. Yes, there are a bunch of life goals, but you probably will want to schedule them so that they all fit within your life. There is no reason why you should do your PhD in your 20's; it can be done (albeit with more difficulty) when you are 50's. Some goals (like family + children) fit comfortably in your 20's but may be impossible when you are 60's. Once you got your goals and priorities mapped out, then it's just simply doing the work.

In sum, this is how I would approach the problem:

Beliefs --> Goals.
Goals + Time and Considerations --> Priority
Goals --> Motivation --> Work --> Result.
posted by curiousZ at 1:11 PM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]


I love books, but halted short of a PhD because (among other things) I realised that you can be genuinely interested and active in a subject without getting bogged down in the sad state of modern academia related to it. In a lot of ways, especially if you're a generous generalist rather than an arcane specialist, it's easier and more liberating. Remodel yourself as what the 19th century called a 'Gentleman Scholar' ('Gentlewoman Scholar'?) - a connoisseur of fine books rather than one who picks over their remains.

(Relating to your question: at 3-4 months, you are nowhere near pot-committed)
posted by Paragon at 1:11 PM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


pride, stubbornness, uncertainty about what I actually want to do next

These are very bad reasons to make a long-term commitment like entering a doctoral program. It sounds like you already know this is a bad idea. Forget the applications and be glad that you realized this so early in the process.
posted by enn at 1:13 PM on December 2, 2010 [4 favorites]


I am a professor.

My professors have all warned me to proceed carefully and go into this with my eyes open - some even told me point blank not to do it.

They are trying, gently, to tell you something, and you should listen to them.
posted by gene_machine at 1:19 PM on December 2, 2010 [6 favorites]


If I stop now, is it stupid for me to feel like a quitter? It'll feel like I've wasted the past 3-4 months and admitting defeat ... but is there a value in continuing if I'm already pretty sure I won't go?

You're SO NOT A QUITTER. You're not failing at applying to grad school. You're making a new decision based on new information!

And I PROMISE you'll find something else to do instead. Guaranteed 100%.

Stop now, while you haven't 'wasted' anything at ALL. It's a terrible feeling to be 3-7 years into the program but not wanting to stop because you wouldn't have anything to show for your time. It sucks 1,000,000,000 times more than thinking you have 'wasted' 3 months of considering applying.

CONGRATS!! You have learned something HUGE in these 3 months! Go forth and prosper and have an awesome life.
posted by barnone at 1:20 PM on December 2, 2010 [5 favorites]


There are three ways to figure out if you want to pursue a career in something:

1. Pay a school to help you study (and even if you're funded, you'll pay with your labor)

2. Get a job somehow related

3. Study it to death until you realize you can or need to do 1 or 2

If you don't know you want the career, don't take on the massive time and likely debt commitment.
posted by freshwater at 1:21 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm sitting on an MA degree in Humanities with exactly the same crisis. Do I want to fight to publish and such to move on, when I already have a very comfortable job?

The answer I keep coming to is... not badly enough to pursue it. It's sad, because I'd love to do a phd for personal interest, but the career options there are slim, and the cost is huge in both time and money.

You're mirroring my own feelings exactly. Have a virtual drink to go with monkeymonkey's virtual hug. ;) I have no answers, as I'm sinking in the same boat.

It's too bad we can't go to universities just to learn, or expect a job when we get out. One or the other might be nice. ;)
posted by Stagger Lee at 1:23 PM on December 2, 2010


Don't do it. Unless you're independently wealthy and financially set for life, grad school in the humanities closes off opportunities instead of giving you MORE opportunities. Forget the applications and pat yourself on the back for only wasting 3-4 months instead of, oh, 8-10 years. Then reads lots of books and find friends with whom you can discuss literature; you'll get all the pleasure and none of the pain.
posted by agent99 at 1:26 PM on December 2, 2010


Wait a minute. A glance through your history says that you already went through this a year go.
That leads me to second the people that say it's totally okay to stop if you want to. Nothing wrong with that.

Also... you're allowed to do your phd 2, 10, or even 20 years down the line if you regret your decision. And I'm not convinced that a phd will help further you as a writer, which is clearly one of your ambitions. In fact, a ton of work, stress, and possibly debt could stunt that career significantly. Food for thought.
posted by Stagger Lee at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2010


Spending 3 or 4 months deciding to apply is nothing compared to feeling like you've wasted 3 years slogging through an actual program. If in any way your body (your head, too, but I find that the body, in terms of feeling queasy/tingly/dizzy/anxious, is excellent at this sort of detection) is telling you not to do this, take heed. There are many ways to be successful, and grad school will always be around if you want to reconsider.
posted by analog at 1:39 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I am a professor on the tenure track in the humanities (art history). I loved grad school, loved adjuncting for a few years before I got a tenure-track job, didn't mind being relatively poor (or relatively rich, depending on how you look at it!) for a decade, and I LOVE my job now. I can't imagine doing anything else (and have been fired from enough unrelated jobs to prove it). This level of irrational, passionate commitment to the field is, I think, an emotional necessity for humanities Ph.D.s, given all the boring pragmatic unpleasant truths that people have listed above.

Unfortunately, passion isn't everything, though. As a professor I have the opportunity to work with many students who have a ton of passion -- and who also suck at art history. We are not all good at everything. Case in point: I love music, but I am at best a mediocre musician. Several of my family members are brilliant musicians; I can objectively compare my skills and aptitude with theirs and realize that I am not very good at it. I still love it, but I've had to find other ways to enjoy that feeling than becoming a professional musician.

When it comes to art history, I have always, from my very first undergraduate course, been utterly convinced that I am one of the top 3 people in whatever room I have happened to be in at what I'm doing. Luckily, other people have also been convinced of this (or something close enough!). I have never, ever, stepped back and looked at my art history research/writing and thought, "hmm, this isn't very good; I'm going to have to do a lot of work to make this acceptable." To put it bluntly, I am very, very good at what I do. It's unfashionable and sometimes even against university policy to say that people are incapable of doing work above a certain level, but it's true. And to get a Ph.D. in something, you need to be able to put yourself confidently in the top 10 or 15 percent of, for example, your undergraduate major. If you didn't go to an extremely rigorous academic institution for undergrad, you should be in the top 5% of students graduating in your major. Otherwise, what you learned as an undergrad is that you are not good enough at academia to get your Ph.D.

I realize this sounds insanely arrogant, but I'm trying to make the point that if *you* aren't sure you're pretty damn awesome at this academia thing, then you are going to fail. If others also aren't sure, then you're also going to fail. Academia is competitive; it is hard to succeed; and it's because, ideally, the kind of people who get Ph.D.s are the very best of the very best at what they do.

Somewhat tangentially, this is why I, personally, am not interested in starting a Ph.D. program at my institution, despite strong encouragement from our Dean. We have absolutely no ability to attract the best of the best, and so if we start a program we will be offering degrees to people who simply aren't good enough to get into better programs. To me, this means they shouldn't be in a program at all; and we'd be contributing to the massive issues (described above) in the field by producing mediocre graduates -- to a degree that I find appallingly unethical. So basically, unless you're applying to -- and getting into -- one of the top 10 schools in your field (and this is about the very specific subfield of literature that you're interested in, not even the whole department), I'd almost automatically advise against it unless you were doing it for the sheer joy of it.

tl;dr: based on what you've written, I'd advise against pursuing a Ph.D. -- and I'd consider the past few months necessary research into whether or not the career path is a good fit for you. Like a summer internship -- sometimes the most useful thing you learn is that you hate it. Doesn't mean you wasted your time.
posted by obliquicity at 1:40 PM on December 2, 2010 [12 favorites]


It's a great thing to do if you have spare cash and no responsibilities. Calculate the cost of the degree. Think about whether the degree is worth the debt you may have to incur. Debt that may be very difficult to repay.

I majored in English & Psychology. I love literature, but I would not get an MA. At that level, they kill it with analysis that I find overwrought , trendy and often supercilious. Jobs in bookstores are going away, fast.

Spend some time w/ the Chronicle of Higher Ed, and do some research on what jobs are likely to exist in the next 10 - 20 years. Maybe you'd like to teach high school, be a policy analyst, or write blog content. There may not be a lot of creative, brainy, English major jobs, but there are some. Find a career path you can like, and consider working on an MA in something that will lead to it.

Having said all this, actually sending in a few apps is not a horrible idea, if yo uwant to keep the possibility open just a bit longer.
posted by theora55 at 1:42 PM on December 2, 2010


I am also knee-deep in the process of applying to humanities grad programs (creative nonfiction MFA). It's stressful, difficult, and at times I feel like I'm lost in the center of a howling void, where no one can hear me screaming.

And I'm only applying to three programs that ask for the minimum possible requirements. And they're all due comfortably far apart from each other. I'm kinda, you know, delicate. Hate stress.

I would not put myself through this crap if I didn't have very good reasons for it. My reasons are complicated, but solid. (memail me if you'd like to know them.) I've put off applying to grad programs for two years because I was busy working, soul-searching, and figuring out if I really wanted to go to grad school.

My advice to you: set aside your applications. Grad school will be there next year, and the year after that. You have a mostly-complete set of apps? That's cool, you can always finish them at your leisure next summer if you decide you want to go.

It's the friggin' holidays. Light some candles, get in the bath, spend time with your boyfriend and family. Get some exercise. Put the applications in a drawer and forget about them. Then spend the next year or two figuring out why you want to get a PhD. If it's a community of passionate scholars you need, start a book club and start reading/contributing to literary blogs. If you need to, move to a more literary city. Volunteer to teach writing to little kids. (Trust me, this is the COOLEST.) Take community college classes. Want to get radical? Cut way back on your living expenses so you can get by with a part-time job and have lots of time to read and write. (This is what I did.) Invent your own projects and finish them. I suspect the reason a lot of people go to grad school is because they crave structure and grades. It's fine to need those things, but grad school demands so much of you in return. Like, your whole self and soul.

If it's not a sense of community or the structure that you need, but you instead have this deep, sustaining passion for one tiny specific slice of the world of literature and you know you must absolutely commit the rest of your life to investigating it, then go to grad school. But go in a state of readiness, not overdriven angst.
posted by guybrush_threepwood at 1:44 PM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


Remember that the reason not to apply for grad school in the humanities is not that you'd get rejected. Getting in is the easy part, relatively speaking. It's more about whether you'd enjoy the process of earning it, and most especially about where you'd end up at the end of it. Would you have to take on more debt? What would your job prospects be?

So it seems like there's little to be gained by applying and seeing if you're accepted. That accomplishment wouldn't tell you whether you'd ultimately succeed in academia. And it's unlikely anyone would give you different advice once you got accepted. I think that rather than keep putting effort towards an academic career, that you should start dealing with the question of how to refocus your career now. It may be a hard part of your self-image to part with now, but it's going to be much harder when you've invested years of your time and possibly tens of thousands of dollars.

I hope the above doesn't sound smug. I also chose not to do a PhD, partly because of what I saw my friends go through. One decided it wasn't the career for her and left with a masters, which she leveraged into a satisfying career. Another realized the same but was far enough along that she just graduated anyway and found a teaching-oriented position (in the sciences). And two more didn't burn out, but one of those is a monomaniacal mathematician who lives and breathes the stuff, and the other runs 50 mile races for fun.

I don't have that kind of dedication or work ethic, but I do have professional skills that I take pride in. And so I'm happier being a programmer, which is something I know I can succeed at more so than academics. I think your routes to success at this point are to either:
  1. Get into grad school and then work really hard and brilliantly for years to secure a tenure track position and make tenure, or
  2. Start looking for another career with better prospects, where you can use or develop a skillset you'll be proud of. It might not be as ostensibly intellectual, but there are many jobs "in industry" that require more intelligence than academics realize.
Neither route is taking the easy path, and I think the second is not only more realistic, but likely more rewarding.
posted by serathen at 1:45 PM on December 2, 2010


Hey, are you me? Well, the humanities-not-social-sciences version of me? I went through almost this exact process this summer. I began the process with open eyes but a lot of enthusiasm. I, too, had an area of study that I was very interested in (roughly, political sociology) and I still think that I would be a very happy person if I could spend my life studying it. Yet, I decided not to continue with the process and it was definitely the right choice for me.

As I began the process, I too started realizing that my prior research was not really up to snuff, and I started thinking about why. Honestly, I'd had plenty of opportunities to do that sort of research before, so why hadn't I? And as I started to read more articles of the kind I'd be writing, I realized that as much as I enjoyed reading and thinking and talking about this stuff, I did not want to spend my life engaged in research on incredibly narrow specialties. As passionate as I am about my field, I'm more of a generalist and - horrors! - practitioner.

Now, I am very lucky to be in a field where it actually is possible to be a practitioner. And, as fate would have it, shortly after I started questioning whether or not I wanted to be an academic, I ended up getting a job that allows me to investigate a lot of the research questions I'm interested in, and apply existing research in an innovative way, while remaining somewhat of a generalist.

But still, the sad fact remains that academia these days is not the place for generalists. And humanities academia seems to be even worse this way. It sounds like you need to give yourself some time to make this decision. Is there any reason not to just wait until next year?
posted by lunasol at 1:55 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


It seems like you grok what it will take to pursue this course, and that you perceive in yourself a lack of desire to produce that. Changing one's mind is not quitting.
posted by goblinbox at 2:00 PM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


One other thing: if your professors are discouraging you from applying, take that as a signal. Yes, they are almost morally compelled to do so in this job market, but they know the field and if they're not encouraging you, that's valuable information. I know that sounds harsh, but success in academia has little to do with your intellectual abilities. They are probably responding to your "lack" of almost-crazy levels of enthusiasm.
posted by lunasol at 2:02 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'd take one big step back and ask - is there some thing or things about academia in general that are appealing, something that could be found or replicated in the real world?

For me, it was the structure - goals and steps to reach those goals were well defined and followed by a great many. For you , perhaps something else.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:15 PM on December 2, 2010


I was sort of going to leave the decision up to fate once I saw where I got in - or didn't...

Metafilter, I guess my question is - should I go ahead and send in the apps to see where the chips fall? ... Maybe I just need y'all to kick me in the ass and tell me to GET ER DONE and decide later? I'm at a stage where I need MORE opportunities, not fewer.


Just came in to say that if your concerns are about the suitability of the PhD as a step toward an ultimate career path, and not about particular school or program, then having more options may actually not be a good thing.

I went through this same thing last year this time in applying to law school. And when the chips fell, and I knew where I'd gotten in & had "all the info to make the best decision" etc., I found out that being farther into the process didn't make anything easier or clearer. If anything, it actually just raised the stakes and stress level about the decision.

Because, you know, NOW I was invested. NOW I was turning down an actual opportunity, not just a vague possibility. Having that extra, concrete info didn't help quell any of my uncertainties at all; everything I was concerned about before ... well, I was still concerned about.

If you truly feel that you're "already pretty sure [you] won't go," I'd encourage you to let yourself be OK with not finishing the apps, and realizing that consciously choosing to stop does not a quitter make.

P.S. If you're wondering how it panned out, I ended up deferring admission, which is basically the ultimate in decision-making avoidance. In fact you're likely to see an AskMe about it in the near future.

PPS Grad school was also my vague plan B after a career in book publishing did not spiral upward as hoped! So, yeah, we're basically twins.

posted by alleycat01 at 2:16 PM on December 2, 2010


You can punt the decision until after acceptances come back, but it will be harder to say no when they do. Between now and then it is unlikely that you will have gone through the necessary steps to prepare for a life outside academia, which would include sorting out what you want in life, hustling to find some kind of a job, and crafting an alternative future ideal non-academic you to contrast the "English scholar" ideal for academic you. If these steps haven't been done and you have an acceptance in hand, grad school will look like an inviting comfy place to spend the next few years while you sort out your life, especially when compared against the unknown future you haven't yet come to terms with. Moreover, it will feel like the opportunity is here, now, and you should take it because it may never come again. In this way you will drift into a PhD program like so many of us have.

This path doesn't necessarily lead to failure, but you should think strategically. Understand that the next four to six years of academia will be grooming you for work as an "English scholar", but that such jobs are rare and the odds are good this is not what you'll be. Non-English scholar you will be a reality and at that point you will be LESS qualified for most jobs than you are now (because you'll be overqualified, overspecialized, and lacking practical experience, etc), and possibly heavily in debt, though I hope not. Whatever path you might sort out for yourself in the absence of academia, you either have to start walking on it now, or in four to six years. This degree should work for you, and make you better off than you otherwise would be. You should only go into it if this is true.

You may feel like you need more opportunities in your life, but I disagree. Your indecision is best solved by removing options, not adding them. Once there is no option left in which you can defer the question of what to do with your life, you will have to face it. It may be better not to apply and force yourself to face it now.
posted by PercussivePaul at 2:17 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


I beg you to stop now. My partner is ABD for an English literature PhD. She is brilliant and passionate and loves language and books. But she's also completely burnt out on academia and truthfully the whole academic world is a nightmare right now. There are no jobs. We know grad students who have been looking for jobs for literally years. They are all smart and can do amazing work and have the pedigree of a really great school, but they still can't get jobs. For every one tenure track position there are so many applicants, many of them brilliant. Unless you are the most brilliant of the brilliant, you're not going to get where you're imagining you'll be. And even if you did get there, I promise you it's not the intellectual utopia you want it to be.

What I'm saying is: stop now. Keep on loving books and talking about them. Make it your passion. If you want to research something and write about it, you can have many opportunities to do that even if you're not a grad student or a professor. If you have a paying job you can have hobbies, you can travel, you can research in your spare time. And you won't be killing yourself to get there or to stay there. Unless you are 100% driven, unless you are 100% sure you know what you want to get out of the experience and that you're going to be able to get it, I say don't do it.

This sounds ridiculously impassioned, I know, but I've been living with someone doing this for 5 years and we both want it to be over now.
posted by marginaliana at 2:19 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


bookgirl18 > If I stop now, is it stupid for me to feel like a quitter? It'll feel like I've wasted the past 3-4 months and admitting defeat ...

Sunk-cost fallacy. A bad investment is not going to stop being a bad investment just because you continue to throw more time, money, and health into its gaping maw. And you ain't never seen no maw like grad school's maw.

Does an investor look back and call herself a quitter if she dropped a revalued stock at a tiny loss in order to protect the rest of her portfolio?

"Defeat" is a nonsensical concept here — this is your life, you are making decisions by your playbook and your rulebook. You can't lose to a grad school application because you control the whole definition of victory.

Talk to your professors, save your letters of recommendation, and put your personal statement away. If you change your mind, you can come back to this in a year.
posted by hat at 2:21 PM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


griseus is so, so, so correct.
posted by Neofelis at 2:28 PM on December 2, 2010


Response by poster: Thank you, thank you all.

Yes, I did in fact begin wondering about this last year, which is part of why I didn't want to wait another year to apply and/or start finding a new direction. I need need to get out of my publishing job (hi alleycat01!), and I suppose I have been pretty hard on myself on still being stuck in the same job for so long. I feel a bit paralyzed with indecision and a strong desire for change, and I feel as though I am officially in my mid-twenties, stalled rather than moving forward. Whatever it is I want, I haven't found it yet, and I often err on the side of passivity and wishy-washy-ness in life. I was hoping this would be a step towards changing that.

And, while we're admitting things, I did go to a top undergrad institution, surrounded by peers who are all in law/med/grad school and feeling less prestigious. (Ohhh, you went THERE? YOU MUST BE SMART WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH YOUR DEGREE? kind of stuff.) I realize that is kind of irrational and not really a good reason to go to grad school. But I'm having trouble quieting that voice down. I guess this is all part of growing up and whatnot. :)
posted by bookgirl18 at 2:36 PM on December 2, 2010


Response by poster: (Also, don't feel you have to stop commmenting! I'm still checkin this here thread for nuggets of wisdom. :)
posted by bookgirl18 at 2:55 PM on December 2, 2010


You're in the quarter-life crisis. It's a first-world crisis, to be sure, but that doesn't make it feel any less real. The thing is -- life is LOOOONG. You're in your mid-twenties. You could easily have another 60 or 70 years ahead of you.

You know what stuck feels like? Having dropped 8 years in a program and being in your mid-thirties knowing you're not going to get a job. That people who have been working for the last 8 years now have a higher salary than you'll ever hope for. That if you want a job you might have to move 3 times to some crap-ass tiny town in the middle of nowhere, teaching a 3-4 or a 3-4 load AND on the market again AND trying to get more publications so you look better AND dealing with ridiculous campus politics AND trying to manage some semblance of a love or social life, with no time to feel anything but burnt out. Yeah yeah, you're different, you're motivated, you're smart and you'll escape. EVERYONE FEELS THAT WAY. I am yelling because people get this ridiculous notion about "reading books in grad school" and it's just not the reality about what you're signing up for.

So fine, you feel stuck in this job. Now you know grad school isn't the next step for you. So take a summer class at an extension school. Start volunteering places to see what might be up your alley. Talk to your friends to see what they think might be a good match. And then start doing informational interviews (do a search on AskMe for good tips on them) to talk with folks about their jobs. Then brush up your resume, get it critiqued by people IN THE FIELD to which you'd like to apply, and go for it. Honestly I know this sounds way more scary than just going to grad school. Grad school might feel like the next obvious choice. For many reasons that you've articulated and that others have written above and that many more have written all over the place, just because it seems obvious doesn't make it the right choice.

I know openness is freaky. So if not grad school, then WHAT? What am I? What do I want to be? Here's all I know: grad school in the humanities really isn't the answer to those questions. Live those questions for a while and you'll enjoy the road a whole lot more.
posted by barnone at 3:50 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


Success in academia requires:
-an amazing, unholy work ethic
-rock solid self confidence
-giving up a lot of other great opportunities (even though you may not know what those are right now) over a period of honestly 6-10 years

And further down the list:
-smarts and being good at your field

And what you already realize is that even if someone has all four, there is a good chance they will either not finish (and so will be back looking for non-academic jobs, just a few years older), or finish and then have to move to an area they really don't like, far from family, etc, for a job that doesn't pay well, teaching students who are mostly not as good as they were as undergrads.

For some people the gamble is worth it. But I have known a LOT of people who have quit (2-10 years into their PhDs) and are much happier not doing it, who wish they had never started.

So even if you had all of the personality traits that lead to success in academia, you would still have excellent reasons not to pursue this course. And if you don't have those personality traits, then your intellectual skills won't be enough. (It's not bad to lack those personality traits! A lot of people who have those traits are insufferable! Just be honest with yourself -- given your ACTUAL personality and constitution, is academia a good avenue for you?

It can seem like a safe harbor because it is a Named Prestigious Occupation (Professor, Lawyer, Doctor, etc), but really, jobs like "I'm a writer and editor who makes websites for small businesses" or "I work for a nonprofit building connections with donors" etc -- which might not be Named -- will let you build skills and connections and make use of your actual personality and strengths, which will open doors for future jobs that you can't even envision right now. It isn't a grand plan, but after 5-10 years doing these kinds of non-academic jobs you'll be in a much better position to find a job you actually like, which actually works for you, than you would if you go to grad school and quit after a few years.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:22 PM on December 2, 2010


I fled grad school in English for the very same reasons you suggest you are leery of grad school. Everything you're thinking now will be what you are thinking all day every day. Then, if you manage to force yourself to write a long boring book nobody will read, you will be competing for crap jobs that pay peanuts in places you don't want to live.

Don't do it. If some kind of post-graduate education appeals to you later, it will make sense to you at the time. Nobody should get a Ph.D. in the humanities in the US right now unless that is the thing they most want to do with their lives. "I like to read books and talk about them" is not a good enough reason to get a Ph.D. in English or Comparative Literature--you have to want to be a professor enough to bounce from "folding chair" to "folding chair" in the hope that you'll eventually find a tenure-track job.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:09 PM on December 2, 2010


People are giving you really good advice. You can always apply again later if a Ph.D. becomes something you decide you really want; I love the work I'm doing, but graduate school in the humanities is just not something to begin if you feel this uncertain before you've even finished filling out the applications. Give yourself a year or two and then reassess.
posted by gerryblog at 8:49 PM on December 2, 2010


I thought I wanted to go because I love writing about and discussing literature.

That's how it starts for many of us.

It's already been said many ways in this thread, but loving literature is not, on its own, a very good reason to go to grad school in the humanities, nor will a love of literature be enough to keep you going when grad school gets tough. Ambition, a competitive streak, and a near-maniacal focus on your project would serve you better.

The thing is: OK, you love literature. So do I. But very few people love ONLY one thing in life—and they usually know exactly what that one thing is, and fight tooth and nail to pursue it. You will love occupations other than writing about and discussing literature, but you haven't had a chance to discover those loves yet, and that's why grad school in literature has, thus far, looked like the logical choice. If you've always seen yourself as "some kind of English scholar," it may be because you've spent a lot of time around scholars and haven't really spent time in work settings where you do non-scholarly tasks that make you happy and observe bosses/colleagues whose non-scholarly jobs seem pleasant, interesting, and worthwhile.

My advice: be open to the unknown loves. Postpone the grad school apps and get some work experience. If you already have work experience, get DIFFERENT work experience.

You mention the prestige associated with graduate degrees. I used to feel like a Ph.D. was the ultimate, undeniable, public confirmation that a person was Very Very Smart. But I've come to appreciate how smart it is to know one's own talents and interests, and be wiling to extend them in unexpected directions.
posted by Orinda at 10:38 PM on December 2, 2010 [2 favorites]


I thought I wanted to go because I love writing about and discussing literature.

If you want to start hating this thing that you love, make it your job at poverty-level wages for 5+ years.. then once you've finished that, find out no departments are hiring for anything more than adjunct and temporary positions at barely above poverty-level. Don't go! Those Thomas A Benton articles in the Chronicle of Higher Ed are right.
posted by citron at 9:24 PM on December 3, 2010


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