The girl with the red napkin.
November 17, 2010 12:00 AM Subscribe
Long shot. Can anyone identify a naturalistic painting of two women, a man, and a cat in a public house sort of place?
I don't have enough knowledge of art history to tell you anything very helpful about the style or period of this painting. I do know that it was quite realistic. The costumes seemed intentionally old-fashioned, and appeared to be from somewhere in the 1500s-1700s. My friend and I speculated that the painting could be anything from 17th-century Dutch to 19th-century French. We really don't know enough about European painting to say.
I'll describe the scene (IIRC): One of the women smirks at the viewer knowingly; the other seems to be wearing something like a red napkin on her head. Some older men dine or drink coffee in the background. The women look a bit sleazy, and might be ladies of ill-repute, but they're just so charming, you can't help but want to sit down with them. They sit across the table from a man, bearded. A black cat slinks around in the background of the scene, which is shadowy and rather dramatically-lit.
Background: My friend and I were on a road trip and we ended up in Ashland, Oregon. We stopped at Geppetto's, the restaurant where her parents met while her father was waiting tables there. The food was eh, but we were fascinated by the extremely faded print of this painting, which hung over our booth. The waiter, who had been there for years, said he didn't know who the artist was or when it was from, and neither did anyone else on the staff; it had just always been there.
My friend loved it so much that she even tried awkwardly to buy it from him, but no go. Now it's almost her birthday and I know she would love to get a print of this painting--or at least to know its identity. Especially because the women with the red napkin hat looks EXACTLY like her, and all this in the restaurant without which she wouldn't exist today.
I took a photo on my phone but something went haywire, and now all I have is my fuzzy memory of the painting... and you, AskMeFi! Help!
I don't have enough knowledge of art history to tell you anything very helpful about the style or period of this painting. I do know that it was quite realistic. The costumes seemed intentionally old-fashioned, and appeared to be from somewhere in the 1500s-1700s. My friend and I speculated that the painting could be anything from 17th-century Dutch to 19th-century French. We really don't know enough about European painting to say.
I'll describe the scene (IIRC): One of the women smirks at the viewer knowingly; the other seems to be wearing something like a red napkin on her head. Some older men dine or drink coffee in the background. The women look a bit sleazy, and might be ladies of ill-repute, but they're just so charming, you can't help but want to sit down with them. They sit across the table from a man, bearded. A black cat slinks around in the background of the scene, which is shadowy and rather dramatically-lit.
Background: My friend and I were on a road trip and we ended up in Ashland, Oregon. We stopped at Geppetto's, the restaurant where her parents met while her father was waiting tables there. The food was eh, but we were fascinated by the extremely faded print of this painting, which hung over our booth. The waiter, who had been there for years, said he didn't know who the artist was or when it was from, and neither did anyone else on the staff; it had just always been there.
My friend loved it so much that she even tried awkwardly to buy it from him, but no go. Now it's almost her birthday and I know she would love to get a print of this painting--or at least to know its identity. Especially because the women with the red napkin hat looks EXACTLY like her, and all this in the restaurant without which she wouldn't exist today.
I took a photo on my phone but something went haywire, and now all I have is my fuzzy memory of the painting... and you, AskMeFi! Help!
Sounds like one of the absinthe drinkers by Degas - there were quite a number of paintings done in this style from turn of the century Paris.
posted by ptm at 3:52 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by ptm at 3:52 AM on November 17, 2010
Degas sounds right if it's been hanging there for as long as everyone can remember. But if most of the people have been working there less than 20 years, the first thing that jumped to my mind was Vettriano.
posted by MeiraV at 4:52 AM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by MeiraV at 4:52 AM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Seconding the 'get someone to take a picture' to help with ID'ing it. I'm sure it wouldn't take but a moment for one of the staff to get a decent iPhone picture and email it to you.
posted by essexjan at 7:48 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by essexjan at 7:48 AM on November 17, 2010
Was it this sort of thing? Not the specific painting, but in that style, with that sort of mood to it?
My first thought was 17th century Dutch tavern scenes.
posted by Sara C. at 9:40 AM on November 17, 2010
My first thought was 17th century Dutch tavern scenes.
posted by Sara C. at 9:40 AM on November 17, 2010
I went through google image search and nothing's popping. I also tried looking for interior shots of Gepetto's, but there don't seem to be any with prints or paintings. You might add Ashland and/or Art to your tags, as that may get more eyeballs (hopefully, another mefite can snap a shot).
posted by klangklangston at 11:06 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by klangklangston at 11:06 AM on November 17, 2010
And when you say Dark and Dramatically Lit, I think Caravaggio.
posted by klangklangston at 11:09 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by klangklangston at 11:09 AM on November 17, 2010
That doesn't match any of the Caravaggios that I know or really sound like his thing. My wildest guess going from the napkin-head and the knowing smirk (suggesting what we'd call a snapshot nowadays?) is that it could be a 17th century Dutch thing. You know, by someone named Jan.
Here's a long shot for pinning down the period it's from. Do you recall if the subjects appeared to be left handed?
We're gonna need a picture.
posted by cmoj at 11:27 AM on November 17, 2010
Here's a long shot for pinning down the period it's from. Do you recall if the subjects appeared to be left handed?
We're gonna need a picture.
posted by cmoj at 11:27 AM on November 17, 2010
My first thought was Manet, but this seems to be the closest thing he painted.
posted by clorox at 11:37 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by clorox at 11:37 AM on November 17, 2010
It doesn't match the Interior of Tavern or Card Sharps, but he has a fairly huge repertoire. The napkin head thing does sound Dutch (or Spanish), and given that the Dutch did a lot of tavern scenes, it's more likely them than the Spanish, who were mostly court and religious based.
posted by klangklangston at 11:50 AM on November 17, 2010
posted by klangklangston at 11:50 AM on November 17, 2010
The cat is also a clue that it could be Dutch. The Dutch were big into visual puns illustrated by seemingly random objects within the painting. Sometimes the puns were based on slang terms (this is why so many women in Dutch paintings seem to love to play the lute), but other times they were more moralistic. And in fact a lot of tavern scenes tried to have it both ways, depicting lusty ladies of ill repute but folding a moral into it via minor details that modern viewers would probably not notice. The black cat reminds me a little of the latter (though I don't know how 17th century Dutch culture regarded black cats specifically).
posted by Sara C. at 12:02 PM on November 17, 2010
posted by Sara C. at 12:02 PM on November 17, 2010
I should have said that Caravaggio is a special interest of mine and I'm fairly certain I've seen all of his paintings. I'm also fairly certain there are no cats in any of them. It could well be some Caravaggisti, though if it's "quite realistic" and "shadowy and rather dramatically-lit."
I'm all worked up about this now and I'm really hoping for a photo.
posted by cmoj at 3:41 PM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm all worked up about this now and I'm really hoping for a photo.
posted by cmoj at 3:41 PM on November 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
A couple of paintings that have some -- but not all -- of your features:
Shrovetide Revelers by Frans Hals
A Lady with Two Gentlemen by Vermeer? Scroll down for it, about 1/3 of the way down the page.
A few names to search, associated with bawdy Dutch tavern paintings:
Pieter Codde
Jacob Duck
Willem Cornelisz Duyster
Jan Massys
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:22 AM on November 18, 2010
Shrovetide Revelers by Frans Hals
A Lady with Two Gentlemen by Vermeer? Scroll down for it, about 1/3 of the way down the page.
A few names to search, associated with bawdy Dutch tavern paintings:
Pieter Codde
Jacob Duck
Willem Cornelisz Duyster
Jan Massys
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:22 AM on November 18, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
(dammit a sourceless light i'm a chef not an artist
couldn't resist non sequitur star trek reference
posted by ChefJoAnna at 1:29 AM on November 17, 2010