Comments on: Music Theory/Chord Progression

Question: Music Theory/Chord Progression

sciurus — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 03:50:52 -0800

Music Theory/Chord Progressions: Bm + F#7 + ??? I'm trying to compose my first song on a guitar; being unused to most chord progressions I need some help figuring out what the hell key I'm in and what progression I need to use.

I've got strange musical background, played the sax for ten years, but never anything else until I picked up guitar about a year ago. So my knowledge of music theory is piss poor. The way the third chord in this progression sounds in my head and when I whistle it, well, it sounds almost like F#7 with perhaps one note changed [maybe]. The third chord [the one in my head] makes the progression sound darker. I've fiddled around on the guitar, A-minor seems to fit the key [maybe], but not the progression I'm looking for [A-minor is too strong/full]. Any ideas? All the sites I've looked at seem to think I have more music theory knowledge than I actually do. Sorry about how vague this sounds.

_6_5_4_3_2_1
x_x_D_B_D_F# = the Bm chord I'm using [2nd position]

x_x_F#A#C#E = the F#7 chord I'm using [2nd position]

And if you know of any sites that give an easily understood primer in basic music theory, that would rule. :-/

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:40:40 -0800

You're in B minor (either melodic or harmonic). (Let's ignore D Major Bebop for the moment...)

In melodic, you can use: Bm C#m Dmajb5 E F# Abdim Bbmajb5

In harmonic, you can use: Bm C#dim Em F# G (or Gm)

Of course can is entirely subjective. You can use any chord that you think sounds right - while an A isn't in either of the two keys you're currently in, if you follow you make your sequence: Bm F#7 A, you're well on your way to writing Hotel California... ;-) (And welcome to the D Major Bebop scale we ignored earlier...)

By: jeanmari

jeanmari — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:47:16 -0800

When searching around for guitar chords, great online tools include:

Chord Charts

Chord Wheel

Chord Book

Chord Find

Go nuts. :) Let us know before you get that Grammy.

By: signal

signal — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:00:57 -0800

Keep in mind that, although you can of course use any progression you like, some genres have characteristic chord structures. A basic 12-bar blues, for example, goes I I I I IV IV I I V IV I VII (or something like that). And much of rock and blues is built around I-IV-V with VII thrown in for some tension.
[the roman numerals refer to the chord's position in the scale, so in C, I=C, II=D, etc.]

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:12:22 -0800

Signal, I think you're getting confused between V7 and VII - the VII in a major key is a diminished chord - not an easy one to work with. Your 12BB for instance is good, save the last chord which should be a V7.

By: bricoleur

bricoleur — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:28:51 -0800

This site may be what you're looking for. It lays out basic theory in a thorough but non-intimidating way, and has a comprehensive set of flow charts for chord progressions.

By: signal

signal — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:35:49 -0800

Actually, I usually use the actual VII, I think it's called the "turnaround", and it's basic weirdness works ok as a short bridge.

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:42:23 -0800

So, when you play 12BB in E, for instance, you play:

E E E E
A A E E
B A E D#dim

or is that last chord a B7?

By: nebulawindphone

nebulawindphone — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:44:53 -0800

The actual VII (D#-F#-A in the key of E) works because it's a V7 (B-D#-F#-A in the key of E) with the root omitted. You're still basically playing a V7 chord.

/derail

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 05:49:09 -0800

This is true, but without the root you lose the V-I which makes the turnaround work. Of course, there's no right or wrong in music, but VII is not the final chord of the 12 Bar Blues (as suggested) though it is (as shown) a valid substitution (particularly if you have a bass player to hold the B while you wander off into your diminisheds, etc.)

By: signal

signal — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:02:10 -0800

Hmm, you've given me something to try out tonight, benzo8.

By: mokujin

mokujin — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:11:16 -0800

Try to go for more of a Beatlesy sound. The kids love that.

By: mischief

mischief — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:14:39 -0800

sciurus - If you are intent on keeping that A-chord, try an Asus2/E, xxEABE. It falls well on the fretboard.

If you are strumming, catch the open A note, xAEABE to give it some depth. If you are arpeggiating, catch that A anyway and let it drone.

BTW, I just played this on my 12-string and it has a pleasant haunting sound. Also if you arpeggiate, the following gives your bass some movement: xBxBDF# - F#xxA#C#E - xAxABE - ExxBDE [repeat]

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:45:37 -0800

Yay mischief, with the E there, we really are writing Hotel California... How about a G next?

By: sciurus

sciurus — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:18:17 -0800

Curiously, the next song in my method book [a song I've not gotten to yet] is Hotel California. Thanks for the advice so far. When I get home from work I'll try 'em out and let you know if they work.

By: mischief

mischief — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:49:48 -0800

Damn, I've never tried to play Hotel California before today, but sitting down with the CD, you're right.
With a capo at VII: Bm - F#7 - Asus2 - E9/G# - G - D - Em7 - F#7. I must have missed the HC sound because I was arpeggiating triplets.

At the second position though and using my 7-string, I found some really nice hammer-ons and pull-offs to open strings.

By: andrew cooke

andrew cooke — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:14:41 -0800

you might try arnie berle's "theory and harmony for the contemporary musician". i thought it was good, but must admit to never getting anywhere near finishing it.

subtitle/cover blurb is "a practical guide to essential knowledge for today's musician. a full course covering everything from the fundamentals of sound and music notation to popular song forms and chord scales for improvisation". 111 large format pages, and it gets past the "music notation" stuff pretty quickly.

By: sciurus

sciurus — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:26:27 -0800

Thanks everyone! B-minor harmonic sounds right, mischief's arpeggio progression sounds pretty too. I'll check out your recommendation too andrew cooke. Thanks!

Btw, I just bought a nice amp for $20 at a garage sale. I'll finally get to plug my acoustic/electric in.

Rock on.

By: abcde

abcde — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:28:00 -0800

Harmonic Experience by W.A. Mathieu teaches music theory as it evolved, very intuitively (at first by singing intervals over a drone and then gradually getting into equal temperament and chord changes). It's really excellent.