Mean toddler is menacing my gentle son
October 30, 2010 8:15 PM Subscribe
How should I deal with a friend's toddler who is repeatedly aggressive toward my toddler?
My son is almost 16 months old. The daughter of a close friend is two months older and is consistently aggressive toward him. She'll play well with him for a while and then lash out for no apparent reason. This week she pulled his hair and wouldn't let go. A couple of days later she grabbed his clothes and pulled until he fell down. Her behavior has been escalating in severity over the past few months. Is there anything I can do besides avoid this friend and her daughter? The friendship is important to me, but of course my son's well-being is more important.
My son is almost 16 months old. The daughter of a close friend is two months older and is consistently aggressive toward him. She'll play well with him for a while and then lash out for no apparent reason. This week she pulled his hair and wouldn't let go. A couple of days later she grabbed his clothes and pulled until he fell down. Her behavior has been escalating in severity over the past few months. Is there anything I can do besides avoid this friend and her daughter? The friendship is important to me, but of course my son's well-being is more important.
Sometimes modeling "gentle touch" seems to work with toddlers. When you see a transgression in progress, move to stop it immediately and say in a firm but friendly voice, "No, we use gentle touch here. See? Gennnntle," while taking her hand and showing her how she can gently pat your son instead of pulling on his clothes.
We used this with my oldest daughter and our lab - it did work but it took consistency. If your friend is not correcting her child at home or when the child is with other children, that makes it much more difficult.
posted by Ostara at 8:26 PM on October 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
We used this with my oldest daughter and our lab - it did work but it took consistency. If your friend is not correcting her child at home or when the child is with other children, that makes it much more difficult.
posted by Ostara at 8:26 PM on October 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
Your friend obviously knows that her child isn't behaving "properly" ( although as the mother of an 18 month old myself, I'm not even sure what I mean by that). What does she say? How does she respond when her child lashes out? How does your child respond to the altercation? Two months makes a big difference at this age... soon, your child will be there too. How do you intend to discipline/ encourage/ reinforce desirable behaviors in your own child? How does that differ from what tour friend is doing? Have the two of you talked about it at all, not like "your kid is aggressive!" but in a spirit of moms together, trying to figure it out?
Kids this age are resilient. I'm sure your son's well-being is intact.
posted by nkknkk at 8:27 PM on October 30, 2010
Kids this age are resilient. I'm sure your son's well-being is intact.
posted by nkknkk at 8:27 PM on October 30, 2010
The only thing you can do is avoid your friend and their daughter for a little while - perhaps for three months. In all fairness, the other kid's behaviour can be pretty common, and it's a developmental thing. Give it three months. Hopefully the other kid will grow out of it.
The more difficult question is whether or not you mention this "time out" to your friend. They may get defensive, or they may feel bad about a situation that they have little control over.
In our own experience, our first son is very sweet and gentle, and plays nicely with other kids. He doesn't get bullied at school or on the playground, and if another kid is bugging him, he just gets up and leaves.
Our second son is a little different. He's 18 months old. When other children try to play with his toys, for example, he immediately snatches them back.
So there's a lot of nature, and a little nurture happening.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:27 PM on October 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
The more difficult question is whether or not you mention this "time out" to your friend. They may get defensive, or they may feel bad about a situation that they have little control over.
In our own experience, our first son is very sweet and gentle, and plays nicely with other kids. He doesn't get bullied at school or on the playground, and if another kid is bugging him, he just gets up and leaves.
Our second son is a little different. He's 18 months old. When other children try to play with his toys, for example, he immediately snatches them back.
So there's a lot of nature, and a little nurture happening.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:27 PM on October 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
What is the mother's reaction when the daughter does this?
If the mother's reaction is to immediately intervene, stop the child's aggression, reprimand or redirect as appropriate, and apologize in horror to you, I'd assume it's a phase and the daughter will outgrow it. If that's the case, I'd just keep an eagle eye and intervene quickly, and maybe have slightly fewer playdates or playdates with two play areas for a while.
If the mother's reaction is, "Kids will be kids!" or "Toughen up!" I'd think long and hard about playing with this child again until she's older and has (hopefully) outgrown this.
Toddlers make strange choices. My friend's 17-month-old wants to pat everyone on the head, especially babies, like he pats his dog -- nice and firmly, which the dog loves. People get a little freaked when he attempts to whack their baby on the head and his mom is currently grabbing his hand and apologizing a lot. He's not aggressive; he's trying to be friendly in a strange, toddlery way.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:31 PM on October 30, 2010
If the mother's reaction is to immediately intervene, stop the child's aggression, reprimand or redirect as appropriate, and apologize in horror to you, I'd assume it's a phase and the daughter will outgrow it. If that's the case, I'd just keep an eagle eye and intervene quickly, and maybe have slightly fewer playdates or playdates with two play areas for a while.
If the mother's reaction is, "Kids will be kids!" or "Toughen up!" I'd think long and hard about playing with this child again until she's older and has (hopefully) outgrown this.
Toddlers make strange choices. My friend's 17-month-old wants to pat everyone on the head, especially babies, like he pats his dog -- nice and firmly, which the dog loves. People get a little freaked when he attempts to whack their baby on the head and his mom is currently grabbing his hand and apologizing a lot. He's not aggressive; he's trying to be friendly in a strange, toddlery way.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:31 PM on October 30, 2010
Response by poster: My friend is trying to correct her daughter. She usually says, "Simone, that's not nice," and tells her to say sorry, which Simone does. I guess I'm wondering whether it would be helpful for me to say something to Simone, which I never do, because I'm usually having to comfort my son. I'm also wondering how long a stage can last for toddlers--this has been going on for months, and like I said, it's been getting worse.
posted by chippie at 8:31 PM on October 30, 2010
posted by chippie at 8:31 PM on October 30, 2010
Stop letting them play together for a few months. You are not obligated to force your son to take bullying because you are friends with the mother.
Is there anything I can do besides avoid this friend and her daughter?
Just play it cool for a few months and the girl will likely grow out of her aggressive phase. If you put them together again in a few and she pulls the same stuff, just tell your friend bluntly & honestly that your children do not get along. As you said, your kid comes first. If you can't then find a way to hang out with your friend without subjecting your son to bullying, then you can'y hang out with your friend.
posted by archivist at 8:35 PM on October 30, 2010
Is there anything I can do besides avoid this friend and her daughter?
Just play it cool for a few months and the girl will likely grow out of her aggressive phase. If you put them together again in a few and she pulls the same stuff, just tell your friend bluntly & honestly that your children do not get along. As you said, your kid comes first. If you can't then find a way to hang out with your friend without subjecting your son to bullying, then you can'y hang out with your friend.
posted by archivist at 8:35 PM on October 30, 2010
Simple answer. Don't force your child to be in a situation where they are being hurt.
posted by HuronBob at 8:38 PM on October 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 8:38 PM on October 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
If the mother's reaction is simply to tell her child that "that's not nice" and force an apology, it's certainly appropriate for you to step in, gently tell Simone, "No," model correct behavior, and remove your son from the situation. You know her mother better than strangers on the internet do; would she be comfortable with you touching her child in order to remove her hands from your son, or to prevent her from touching your son, while you were reprimanding her?
Also, you may want to examine your own attitude towards this toddler. You describe the child as "mean" and "menacing." Do you really think a child that young is even capable of being "menacing"? The child isn't "mean" simply because she's not yet able to understand that she's hurting your son, and describing her that way is inappropriate and unhelpful. I don't think this attitude is going to help the friendship, if in fact you do want to preserve it.
posted by pecanpies at 8:39 PM on October 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, you may want to examine your own attitude towards this toddler. You describe the child as "mean" and "menacing." Do you really think a child that young is even capable of being "menacing"? The child isn't "mean" simply because she's not yet able to understand that she's hurting your son, and describing her that way is inappropriate and unhelpful. I don't think this attitude is going to help the friendship, if in fact you do want to preserve it.
posted by pecanpies at 8:39 PM on October 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Does this happen when her mom is present, or are you alone with her and your son? If her mom is there when this happens how does she react? Does she do anything to teach her that her behavior is wrong? If she's not there when it happens it could be related to her missing her mom. Either way you should discuss this with your friend in a calm concerned way. If, by some chance, she thinks her child's behavior is acceptable then you should probably not let the two children play together.
Is your friend having some problems at home that she hasn't shared with you? Does her toddler have older siblings who are rough with her? Is she in a childcare situation where she's learning this kind of behavior from some other child?
I hope this is just a passing phase and that you and your friend can come to an agreement that will keep both children safe and happy.
posted by mareli at 8:41 PM on October 30, 2010
Is your friend having some problems at home that she hasn't shared with you? Does her toddler have older siblings who are rough with her? Is she in a childcare situation where she's learning this kind of behavior from some other child?
I hope this is just a passing phase and that you and your friend can come to an agreement that will keep both children safe and happy.
posted by mareli at 8:41 PM on October 30, 2010
My daughter is the gentle, shy one too, and one of her playmates is the "bully." Her mom was trying VERY hard to curb that tendency in her, but it was rough going for them both for a few months. Finally, the toddler figured it out and now only rarely needs reminding. It was stressful for me but, although I kept a watchful eye out, I also thought it was really important for my daughter to deal with it a little bit. Not to get hurt, of course, but to have a toy snatched away or to be pushed aside once in a while, well, I wasn't going to micromanage that. Sure enough, the other girl mellowed out and mine started standing up for herself a little more. I think continued (highly monitored) interaction between the two is good for both of them. I encourage you to keep trying.
posted by nkknkk at 8:41 PM on October 30, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by nkknkk at 8:41 PM on October 30, 2010 [6 favorites]
She usually says, "Simone, that's not nice," and tells her to say sorry, which Simone does.
I think the other mom needs to be a little more stern and present some consequences for repeated bad behavior. Kids at that age know when they're being bad and doing things they're not supposed to do. By just telling the kid it's not nice and asking her to say she's sorry you're just highlighting the action and giving her attention for doing it. She's probably doing it simply to get the attention and since there aren't any real consequences, why not? She needs to be removed from the situation when it happens again. It may or may not be appropriate for a very brief time-out (removing her from the situation, not making a big deal out of it,a and ignoring her for 30 secs or so). This can teach her that when she doesn't play nice, she doesn't get to play.
If the other mom isn't willing to present some consequences for her daughter, I'd avoid getting together with them for a few months.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:57 PM on October 30, 2010
I think the other mom needs to be a little more stern and present some consequences for repeated bad behavior. Kids at that age know when they're being bad and doing things they're not supposed to do. By just telling the kid it's not nice and asking her to say she's sorry you're just highlighting the action and giving her attention for doing it. She's probably doing it simply to get the attention and since there aren't any real consequences, why not? She needs to be removed from the situation when it happens again. It may or may not be appropriate for a very brief time-out (removing her from the situation, not making a big deal out of it,a and ignoring her for 30 secs or so). This can teach her that when she doesn't play nice, she doesn't get to play.
If the other mom isn't willing to present some consequences for her daughter, I'd avoid getting together with them for a few months.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:57 PM on October 30, 2010
Toddlers respond better to positive statements. They don't really understand what they're doing wrong, or statements like, "that's mean". When my daughter was that size, I followed up "no hitting" very quickly with, "you can pat", or "say, 'I'm still using that toy'" (if she is big enough to actually say those words).
You may also have luck with having one kid play on one side of you and the other on the other side, each with the same kinds of toys.
I can see the not getting together for a few months, but I think it would also work if you didn't pay as much attention to your friend for the next few get-togethers, just focused on the kids and playing with them.
posted by Margalo Epps at 9:00 PM on October 30, 2010 [5 favorites]
You may also have luck with having one kid play on one side of you and the other on the other side, each with the same kinds of toys.
I can see the not getting together for a few months, but I think it would also work if you didn't pay as much attention to your friend for the next few get-togethers, just focused on the kids and playing with them.
posted by Margalo Epps at 9:00 PM on October 30, 2010 [5 favorites]
"She usually says, "Simone, that's not nice," and tells her to say sorry, which Simone does."
Yes, I agree with those above who aren't sure this is an appropriate intervention. Again, you're there, we're not, but I can't imagine this is a very effective technique. Personally, I think they're still of the age where a parent needs to be ready to reach in between the kids at any moment and stop anything getting out of hand and redirect their attention in appropriate ways, ideally BEFORE anyone actually misbehaves. (For misbehavior we do the instruct-and-remove thing, where you say "No whatever" in a stern voice and momentarily remove the child until everyone settles back down ... and if the behavior continues playtime is over.)
As for how long it can go on -- I think a lot of these behaviors can really go on a long time, but I think most parents intervene earlier in the behavior. (My son is a thrower and has been for months and months, but when we're with other children or pets, I am inches away whenever he gets anything throwable so I can catch it before it hits anyone. Thrower with parent right there is no big deal; thrower with parent who doesn't intervene until after someone's been hit = the problem kid who throws things, for months and months and months.)
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think the problem is Simone, I think the problem is Simone's mom.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:10 PM on October 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, I agree with those above who aren't sure this is an appropriate intervention. Again, you're there, we're not, but I can't imagine this is a very effective technique. Personally, I think they're still of the age where a parent needs to be ready to reach in between the kids at any moment and stop anything getting out of hand and redirect their attention in appropriate ways, ideally BEFORE anyone actually misbehaves. (For misbehavior we do the instruct-and-remove thing, where you say "No whatever" in a stern voice and momentarily remove the child until everyone settles back down ... and if the behavior continues playtime is over.)
As for how long it can go on -- I think a lot of these behaviors can really go on a long time, but I think most parents intervene earlier in the behavior. (My son is a thrower and has been for months and months, but when we're with other children or pets, I am inches away whenever he gets anything throwable so I can catch it before it hits anyone. Thrower with parent right there is no big deal; thrower with parent who doesn't intervene until after someone's been hit = the problem kid who throws things, for months and months and months.)
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think the problem is Simone, I think the problem is Simone's mom.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:10 PM on October 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
What I used to do with my toddlers is tell them, "Be sweet" while demonstrating to them how to gently pat (for example, a pet) or otherwise behave in the situation. I agree that positive actions work better than just the negative. I always liked to give them something good to aspire to rather than just try to extinguish the negative.
With us, it worked-I had three toddlers at one time (eek!) and they managed to get along pretty darn well.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:19 PM on October 30, 2010 [5 favorites]
With us, it worked-I had three toddlers at one time (eek!) and they managed to get along pretty darn well.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:19 PM on October 30, 2010 [5 favorites]
Since the aggression happens after they've been playing for a while, let them play for shorter periods, then separate them. At the very least, introduce distractions, like music, or new activity. Maybe the aggressive child is getting tired, bored or frustrated. At that age, 20 minutes of play is a long time. The aggressive child may be getting needed attention by acting out, so positive attention for good behavior may help.
posted by theora55 at 9:25 PM on October 30, 2010
posted by theora55 at 9:25 PM on October 30, 2010
A few weeks ago my toddler daughter was examining a small container at a working farm for children. Another toddler burst into the space, decided that he wanted it and hit her in the face. I was aghast and slightly enraged, but I contained my reaction to think "How is my wife reacting? Follow her lead." My wife, who is an early childhood education consultant with 15 years in her field, put her arms around my daughter and said "oh, no. You should be gentle. Ellie, can you show him 'gentle?'" Then she did the Baby Sign for "gentle" with my daughter (who is highly verbal and no longer signs.)
My daughter looked at her mother and I. I forced a nearly blank face with just a hint of smile, because that's what my wife was doing. My daughter's lip quivered, but I think we might have had no tears if the mother of the other child hadn't caught up to her son and started apologizing so profusely, suggesting that something serious had happened. Here's what I learned from the incident:
1. Quickly but gently intervene. Your child wants to know that s/he's protected when you're there.
2. Don't react strongly. Toddlers don't have the faculties to accurately gauge most situations. If she/he isn't really hurt, and it isn't a big deal to you, it's not a big deal to the toddler. Speak in a neutral tone and make a correction that leads away from the situation (like the Baby Sign.) This ties into one of you specific questions-- you can correct your friend's kid by GENTLY admonishing her and modeling correct behavior. Any stronger reaction escalates the emotions for your child.
3. This is what toddlers do. After the other parent was out of earshot, I referred to the other child as a "little monster" and suggested that his mother was negligent for exposing the public to him. This was not an appropriate response in retrospect, but I have no experience with other toddlers so I'm learning bit-by-bit and I was still shocked. My wife made sharp eye contact with me and said "You think that your daughter's never hit anyone in preschool? Or been hit before? Wait until she bites someone-- give her a year and there's probably an even chance that she'll bite or get bitten."
In your title, you're ascribing some character and motivation to the other child that she's not yet capable of having. You probably realize this, but it's easy to get clouded concerning issues of our child's well-being (as I know first-hand recollecting how I felt about the boy who hit my daughter.)
I can't tell you how long it lasts (and my wife is out so I can't get specifics from her now), but I can tell you that there's no guarantee that it's going away soon-- I do know that my wife feels that aggressive incidents top out among two or three year old preschool groups (can't remember which, but older than your friend's daughter).
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:45 PM on October 30, 2010 [21 favorites]
My daughter looked at her mother and I. I forced a nearly blank face with just a hint of smile, because that's what my wife was doing. My daughter's lip quivered, but I think we might have had no tears if the mother of the other child hadn't caught up to her son and started apologizing so profusely, suggesting that something serious had happened. Here's what I learned from the incident:
1. Quickly but gently intervene. Your child wants to know that s/he's protected when you're there.
2. Don't react strongly. Toddlers don't have the faculties to accurately gauge most situations. If she/he isn't really hurt, and it isn't a big deal to you, it's not a big deal to the toddler. Speak in a neutral tone and make a correction that leads away from the situation (like the Baby Sign.) This ties into one of you specific questions-- you can correct your friend's kid by GENTLY admonishing her and modeling correct behavior. Any stronger reaction escalates the emotions for your child.
3. This is what toddlers do. After the other parent was out of earshot, I referred to the other child as a "little monster" and suggested that his mother was negligent for exposing the public to him. This was not an appropriate response in retrospect, but I have no experience with other toddlers so I'm learning bit-by-bit and I was still shocked. My wife made sharp eye contact with me and said "You think that your daughter's never hit anyone in preschool? Or been hit before? Wait until she bites someone-- give her a year and there's probably an even chance that she'll bite or get bitten."
In your title, you're ascribing some character and motivation to the other child that she's not yet capable of having. You probably realize this, but it's easy to get clouded concerning issues of our child's well-being (as I know first-hand recollecting how I felt about the boy who hit my daughter.)
I can't tell you how long it lasts (and my wife is out so I can't get specifics from her now), but I can tell you that there's no guarantee that it's going away soon-- I do know that my wife feels that aggressive incidents top out among two or three year old preschool groups (can't remember which, but older than your friend's daughter).
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:45 PM on October 30, 2010 [21 favorites]
I think the correction has to be much more specific than "That's not nice." It needs to be something really clear: No hitting. We don't bite. Use a gentle touch. -- stuff like that. The correction need not be harsh; the tone of voice can be very sing-song even. I can immediately remember the tone of voice I used when telling my son, "Gennnntle touch, gennnntle touch."
BUT -- also, if this is driving you nuts? Clear out of there for a few weeks. Or change the location of the next playdate. If this is happening at her home or yours, why not meet at a local park, or vice versa. That may help. Or, think of different ways to get together -- you adults meet for coffee at a cafe where the kids can sit in highchairs, for example. They're really not old enough to play together, but perhaps some nice repeated experiences of being in one another's company without the rough behavior of the girl will help mold new behaviors.
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:48 PM on October 30, 2010
BUT -- also, if this is driving you nuts? Clear out of there for a few weeks. Or change the location of the next playdate. If this is happening at her home or yours, why not meet at a local park, or vice versa. That may help. Or, think of different ways to get together -- you adults meet for coffee at a cafe where the kids can sit in highchairs, for example. They're really not old enough to play together, but perhaps some nice repeated experiences of being in one another's company without the rough behavior of the girl will help mold new behaviors.
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:48 PM on October 30, 2010
I disagree with the advice that suggests that you teach your child (and yourself) to get used to physical horseplay, because I think all children should learn at a young age how to tell someone that they have done something that has hurt. If your toddler is verbal, I would start to teach them to respond with a, "Ouch, please do not do that. I am hurt when you do that." or something along those lines so that they know right away that they have a right to protect themselves. It might also be worthwhile, if this behavior happens again, to tell the other mother, "You know what, I'm really worried that this kind of roughhousing is going to end badly sometime soon. Maybe it would be better if we arranged for our partners to take care of the children when we see each other until the physicality of our toddlers' interactions is less damaging. What do you think?" And then stick to it.
posted by patronuscharms at 11:45 PM on October 30, 2010
posted by patronuscharms at 11:45 PM on October 30, 2010
They are just so young that it's scarcely a worry -- just wedge yourself between them more as others have said -- but, a wonderful move for any punchy little kid? Pretend it was an accident, and fix the situation accordingly.
"Oh!! Oops!! Simone, you're bumping into him! Here, let me help. I will move you over here so you don't bump into him again."
Pick the kid up and shift 'em, and sit back. It is just right as it draws attention to the unwanted behaviour and humiliates them gently without really embarrassing them, and gives them an opportunity to stop having "accidents" without your getting in a fight with the kid. Again, a bit young for this to work on the multiple levels it does with somewhat older tots, but still a nice solution (it also lets the mortified parent save face).
In re. "This can teach her that when she doesn't play nice, she doesn't get to play" -- I see this a lot, and how it usually works is that it gives the hitting kid a new person (Mummy) to fight with; very exciting. It's not like removing a 7yo from a game they're really into, it's just, 'Oh boy, more attention' for a wee tot.
posted by kmennie at 4:42 AM on October 31, 2010
"Oh!! Oops!! Simone, you're bumping into him! Here, let me help. I will move you over here so you don't bump into him again."
Pick the kid up and shift 'em, and sit back. It is just right as it draws attention to the unwanted behaviour and humiliates them gently without really embarrassing them, and gives them an opportunity to stop having "accidents" without your getting in a fight with the kid. Again, a bit young for this to work on the multiple levels it does with somewhat older tots, but still a nice solution (it also lets the mortified parent save face).
In re. "This can teach her that when she doesn't play nice, she doesn't get to play" -- I see this a lot, and how it usually works is that it gives the hitting kid a new person (Mummy) to fight with; very exciting. It's not like removing a 7yo from a game they're really into, it's just, 'Oh boy, more attention' for a wee tot.
posted by kmennie at 4:42 AM on October 31, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone. Just to clarify in case you're still wondering: my friend is mortified when it happens, we are right there when it happens, and we do intervene immediately when it happens. The last couple of incidents were ones where Simone had a very tight grip on my son's clothes or hair, and it was harder to pull her off. My son has let most of the aggressiveness roll off his back (my husband and I joke that he's thinking "It makes me as happy to see you enjoy that toy as I was when I was playing with it before you yanked it out of my hand"), but has started to get more upset as the incidents have become more severe than toy-grabbing. I haven't reacted strongly yet because I figured it would be my son doing the yanking/pushing/grabbing soon enough, and of course I do recognize that they're both very little people. I just wanted to hear advice from more seasoned parents. Lots of good tidbits in your advice--thanks so much!
posted by chippie at 6:06 AM on October 31, 2010
posted by chippie at 6:06 AM on October 31, 2010
We had a neighbor's 2yo child being overly aggressive. I hadn't seen the behavior but heard of it from another neighbor. I recommended the technique of stop the action, calmly but firmly chastise it and separate the children. They didn't heed the advice and the bad behavior continued.
It was about a month later when the problem child, out of the blue, wheeled around, ran across the lawn and gut-punched my child with two fists, stiff-armed. He was just plain stunned at the act. I separated them and loudly, but calmly, said there's no hitting here. The mother turned and pretty much did nothing. I calmly made it clear this behavior was unacceptable asked her to please prevent it in the future. Then suggested it was time for all the children to go home as hitting spoils the fun for everyone. Suffice to say I kept a sharp eye out when that child was around in the future. You can often see when tension builds up in a kid and find ways to deflect it. You don't need to 'helicopter' the poor kids, but you can suggest alternative play when things start getting a bit much.
It seems to have worked. The child now plays without the aggressive attacks. No long-term tension, no ill-will, just a couple of parents working to get their children to understand how to behave properly. It's a challenge, but being firm and calm works best. Freaking out or being hostile only serves to give the children bad examples to follow. A little bit of leadership goes a long way.
posted by wkearney99 at 8:06 AM on October 31, 2010
It was about a month later when the problem child, out of the blue, wheeled around, ran across the lawn and gut-punched my child with two fists, stiff-armed. He was just plain stunned at the act. I separated them and loudly, but calmly, said there's no hitting here. The mother turned and pretty much did nothing. I calmly made it clear this behavior was unacceptable asked her to please prevent it in the future. Then suggested it was time for all the children to go home as hitting spoils the fun for everyone. Suffice to say I kept a sharp eye out when that child was around in the future. You can often see when tension builds up in a kid and find ways to deflect it. You don't need to 'helicopter' the poor kids, but you can suggest alternative play when things start getting a bit much.
It seems to have worked. The child now plays without the aggressive attacks. No long-term tension, no ill-will, just a couple of parents working to get their children to understand how to behave properly. It's a challenge, but being firm and calm works best. Freaking out or being hostile only serves to give the children bad examples to follow. A little bit of leadership goes a long way.
posted by wkearney99 at 8:06 AM on October 31, 2010
I have 3 kids (5, 2.5 and 14 months) of varying tendencies toward gentleness and aggression. 18 months is when a lot of kids start to sense that hitting and pushing and biting can help them get what they want, or that they can use those actions to push back when other kids are being aggressive. I think for the most part kids who are hitting or pushing don't see this in terms of consequences at all. It is more a case of barely-controlled motor skills mixed with strong sense of I WANT THAT and burgeoning independence. BUT It's a parent's job to stop the behavior and redirect it (and Mayor C's advice, or his wife's, is spot on), and your friend is not doing this very well.
To this end I would say that "nice" -- a term which has barely any meaning to adults -- is not the word to use for kids. "Gentle" is much better, since it also has that easiliy-remembered baby sign (stroking the back of your hand with the fingers of your other hand, as if you're petting a kitty's head gently). It's also commonly used in preschools, too, so odds are your friend's kid and yours is already familiar with it. At our house we say "NO Hitting! Be sweet and gennnnnntle, like this..." and show the kid what to do. Any biting, hitting or hair-pulling is redirected, immediately. My 2 older kids are told to "give her a hug and say "I'm sorry." -- this may be earlyish for them, but I think it reminds kids that these actions can hurt and a hug can help them learn to be gentle and loving in place of aggression.
What's good is that you can model this teaching for your friend, the passive mom. When your child starts acting out, or if hers is beating up on yours, just do that "No Xing! Let's be gentle, or let's play like THIS."
I will also say that with kids of this age, you can't sit down with coffee and have a nice chat while the kids play elsewhere. You really do need to be a few feet away from them, to intervene fast.
posted by mdiskin at 11:27 AM on October 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
To this end I would say that "nice" -- a term which has barely any meaning to adults -- is not the word to use for kids. "Gentle" is much better, since it also has that easiliy-remembered baby sign (stroking the back of your hand with the fingers of your other hand, as if you're petting a kitty's head gently). It's also commonly used in preschools, too, so odds are your friend's kid and yours is already familiar with it. At our house we say "NO Hitting! Be sweet and gennnnnntle, like this..." and show the kid what to do. Any biting, hitting or hair-pulling is redirected, immediately. My 2 older kids are told to "give her a hug and say "I'm sorry." -- this may be earlyish for them, but I think it reminds kids that these actions can hurt and a hug can help them learn to be gentle and loving in place of aggression.
What's good is that you can model this teaching for your friend, the passive mom. When your child starts acting out, or if hers is beating up on yours, just do that "No Xing! Let's be gentle, or let's play like THIS."
I will also say that with kids of this age, you can't sit down with coffee and have a nice chat while the kids play elsewhere. You really do need to be a few feet away from them, to intervene fast.
posted by mdiskin at 11:27 AM on October 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
A few years ago, an 18-month-old bit my then-9-month-old son's hand really hard, till he cried and marks appeared. As a first-time mother, I thought the other child was a budding psychopath and that I'd have to suspend the playgroups even though I liked the mom. But my sister, a mother of several, talked me down, reminding me that physical aggression is an extremely common developmental stage for 18-month-olds, and that a child of that age is really still an infant, with no real character yet.
Tonight, we went trick-or-treating with the then-biter and his family. Our sons are best friends, at just-turned-4 and almost-5. Nobody bites anyone. If I had to decide between the two, I'd say my son is more commonly the leader.
My advice: it's just a stage, wait it out, and try not to worry about it the way you would if these were two 5-year-olds. Even if the other mother's handling of it seems suboptimal, remember that a lot of different approaches work fine: by elementary school, for example, it's the rare, and usually very troubled, kid who is engaging regularly in physical aggression, and do you really think all those other parents did everything according to all the best practices? In fact, many of those perfectly well-behaved elementary schoolers had older and younger siblings, and no one was sitting on the rug with them every minute, watching like a hawk for any toddler misdeeds to reprimand and redirect!
tldr: 99% chance the other infant will grow out of it, and there's no need to do anything but watch and learn something about child development and the wisdom of not worrying too much.
posted by palliser at 6:40 PM on October 31, 2010
Tonight, we went trick-or-treating with the then-biter and his family. Our sons are best friends, at just-turned-4 and almost-5. Nobody bites anyone. If I had to decide between the two, I'd say my son is more commonly the leader.
My advice: it's just a stage, wait it out, and try not to worry about it the way you would if these were two 5-year-olds. Even if the other mother's handling of it seems suboptimal, remember that a lot of different approaches work fine: by elementary school, for example, it's the rare, and usually very troubled, kid who is engaging regularly in physical aggression, and do you really think all those other parents did everything according to all the best practices? In fact, many of those perfectly well-behaved elementary schoolers had older and younger siblings, and no one was sitting on the rug with them every minute, watching like a hawk for any toddler misdeeds to reprimand and redirect!
tldr: 99% chance the other infant will grow out of it, and there's no need to do anything but watch and learn something about child development and the wisdom of not worrying too much.
posted by palliser at 6:40 PM on October 31, 2010
I am not and will never be a parent, but the way I would deal with this is to tell "Simone" that actions have consequences: "When you pull chippiekid's hair, it hurts", "When you grab chippiekid's clothes, he can't walk", "We need to ask and say please when we want something instead of grabbing it", etc.
If the behavior doesn't stop, I would tell your friend it would be best to see her without the kids.
posted by brujita at 8:45 PM on October 31, 2010
If the behavior doesn't stop, I would tell your friend it would be best to see her without the kids.
posted by brujita at 8:45 PM on October 31, 2010
Parent of an aggressive girl here.
You've noticed that, at your child's age, kids mostly do parallel play and they don't interact that much with each other except to try to take things away from each other.
My daughter has always been a more aggressive one, though we are very gentle and firm at home. We don't let her get away with bad behavior. We don't hit or yell (not even at each other), but somehow, kids tend to pick up physical aggression naturally, even if the parents are not modeling it. I felt awful when she bit another child - he is one of those who is never aggressive. The weird thing is that he was the one she considered her "best friend" as they understand it at that age. She loved him. Aggression just happens because they lack self-control.
We worked very hard with our daughter from the time she first started grabbing too hard, biting, etc. We felt like bad parents. But I can say that by age 24 months or so, this physical behavior had all but disappeared. She is now 3 and has a very good grasp of "how to be nice" and "people will only be your friend IF...". She still gets mad easily but we've taught her how to deal with her feelings. As in, it's okay to be mad, it's okay to say "I'm mad!" but it is not okay to hit.
I hope this is helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if your friend's child was able to grow out of this behavior in the next 6 months, especially since it sounds like your friend is on board. Hopefully, this will be a short term problem and not interfere with your friendship in the long run. (Good friends are so hard to come by.) Until then, maybe try to get the kids to play a little more separately when they are together. Don't expect them to play together or share.
posted by Knowyournuts at 4:24 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
You've noticed that, at your child's age, kids mostly do parallel play and they don't interact that much with each other except to try to take things away from each other.
My daughter has always been a more aggressive one, though we are very gentle and firm at home. We don't let her get away with bad behavior. We don't hit or yell (not even at each other), but somehow, kids tend to pick up physical aggression naturally, even if the parents are not modeling it. I felt awful when she bit another child - he is one of those who is never aggressive. The weird thing is that he was the one she considered her "best friend" as they understand it at that age. She loved him. Aggression just happens because they lack self-control.
We worked very hard with our daughter from the time she first started grabbing too hard, biting, etc. We felt like bad parents. But I can say that by age 24 months or so, this physical behavior had all but disappeared. She is now 3 and has a very good grasp of "how to be nice" and "people will only be your friend IF...". She still gets mad easily but we've taught her how to deal with her feelings. As in, it's okay to be mad, it's okay to say "I'm mad!" but it is not okay to hit.
I hope this is helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if your friend's child was able to grow out of this behavior in the next 6 months, especially since it sounds like your friend is on board. Hopefully, this will be a short term problem and not interfere with your friendship in the long run. (Good friends are so hard to come by.) Until then, maybe try to get the kids to play a little more separately when they are together. Don't expect them to play together or share.
posted by Knowyournuts at 4:24 PM on November 1, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
They're both very little -- and her behavior is most likely just a stage, and she's way, way too little to understand how to "play nicely."
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:25 PM on October 30, 2010 [11 favorites]