Am I paranoid, or am I just being paranoid?

March 30, 2005 8:00 AM

The thought frequently hits me that people I'm talking with seem to "know more than they should" about me or "know more than they're letting on". Without fail, I logically work through the thought and conclude that this is highly unlikely and that I'm just being paranoid. So, while I'm not, in the end, truly concerned that there is any sort of conspiracy afoot, the fact that I keep having these thoughts makes me wonder: how normal is this?

There is also a history of schizophrenia in my family, so it might be that I'm just a little paranoid about paranoia itself.

posted by 4easypayments to human relations (28 comments total)

I do it, too. I'm pretty sure it's fine as long as it just lasts a second and you don't argue with yourself when you contradict the feeling.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:05 AM on March 30, 2005

It may very well be perfectly normal, but I don't think it is. Such thoughts have never occurred to me and have never been mentioned to me by friends, family, or acquaintances.

The way you describe it, it seems like a fairly irrational notion.
posted by majick at 8:06 AM on March 30, 2005

I think about it all the time, ever since I was little. When the Truman Show came out I was pretty sure it was just a ploy to humble me and get me to stop thinking in this way. When im walking down the street sometimes and I see people walking by me I imagine that they are thinking "there he is, theres Peter" and it is the highlight of their lives. Nowadays though I dont really believe that people are watching me and know who I am. Its almost like the question if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound. Its quite an existential thought. I have come to reason that I am not as important as I once thought, and neither are you. And to answer your question of whether its normal or not: nothing is normal. We make up our own realities in the first place, everything is a thick woven web of memes and humans get very clouded by this. Suggested reading: here and here . Some things just arent supposed to make sense, and humans arrogantly think that everything must make sense. Your on the right track.
posted by pwally at 8:25 AM on March 30, 2005

The way you describe it, it seems like a fairly irrational notion.

It definitely is. But assuming that it's the same intuitions that 4easypayments has (and I pointed at the screen and said "oh yeah, I hate that!" as soon as I knew what s/he was describing), it's easily reasoned away. Most people have irrational notions. The healthy folks dismiss them and go on.

And I'm confident that it's not schizo-affective because I've always done it. As in, I remember having the feeling in grade school and dismissing it then. In fact, the instances of it happening have decreased as I've aged.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:30 AM on March 30, 2005

Major Curley, It really has nothing to do with being a healthy and unhealthy emotional person. You sound like you think its safe if everyone thinks the same and dismisses thoughts if they stray away from the mainstream. Thats what dangerous.
posted by pwally at 8:43 AM on March 30, 2005

You sound like you think its safe if everyone thinks the same and dismisses thoughts if they stray away from the mainstream.

That's supposing a lot. But it really isn't safe to believe that your mind can be read by people on the street, dude.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:50 AM on March 30, 2005

I've never experienced these thoughts, and the only people I know who have experienced them suffered from, well, severe mental illness. Given your family history, I'd at least talk to a psychiatrist.
posted by jjg at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2005

What shouldn't people know about you? How would they find it out? Why would they want to? How would you tell that they knew more than they were letting on?
posted by denishowe at 9:04 AM on March 30, 2005

Seems to me that most people pretend to know more than they do about just about anything. Maybe your paranoia is really just a slightly below-average bullshit-detector. Or maybe you're just hyperaware of the steps your brain goes through when deciding how trustworthy any given conversation is -- steps that most people subconsciously filter out.

I don't think that this pheomenon, in and of itself, is necessarily a sign of mental illness. I think that most people fleetingly wonder about all kinds of stuff that, if said aloud, would sound pretty crazy if they said it all out loud. At least I know that I do.

Obviously, if it bothers you enough and you have trouble normalizing your thoughts, it's not a bad idea to have a couple of sessions with a therapist.
posted by desuetude at 9:37 AM on March 30, 2005

4easypayments, what sorts of things? Like knowledge of your private in-home actions that would actually require eavesdropping/spying devices for others to know about? Or less intensive kinds of snooping, like the sort of stuff one might find out about someone if he secretly followed them around as they went about their errands?

Or your do you feel they might know your thoughts and feelings, and if so, in a specific or general way? Like, exactly what your thinking, even if you are thinking of a purple gorilla in a pink tutu? Or does it seem more as though they might know that you really think they are jerk, even though you are being nice and chatting normally with them?

Or is it just a more vague, formless feeling?
posted by taz at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2005

I have a similar family history, and I have to admit that if I had thoughts such as these, I'd be off to the doc's office like a shot.

Schizophrenia, at least in my experience, gets worse as you get older. Maybe it would be a good idea to have a professional monitoring you now, just in case.
posted by frykitty at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2005

I don't have these thoughts, but then again, I've never been hypervigilant about whether or not I'm thinking like this due to a (understandably alarming) family history like yours.

IANADoctor (or psychologist), but two thoughts, which might be diametrically opposed:

1) Do these thoughts cause you significant distress or inhibit your social or occupational functioning? Because that's pretty much the gold standard (short of, "potential harm to self and/or others") for a mental quirk or personal habit to be considered pathological and in need of treatment.

2) On the other hand, doctors at Yale at the PRIME clinic have been focusing on treatment options for people who are still only POTENTIALLY on the road to schitzophrenia (particularly those with a family history of the disease) by using new diagnostic criteria and trying to avoid fullblown symptoms before they happen. I urge you to check out the following article:
http://www.ynhh.org/healthlink/mentalhealth/mentalhealth_7_04.html
posted by availablelight at 10:06 AM on March 30, 2005

Yeah, get thee to a therapist.

Schizophrenia, at least in my experience, gets worse as you get older.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, psychoses (incl. schizophrenia) tend to "burn out" as the patient hits middle age, as the brain literally does not have the energy to keep reconciling "your" reality with "real" reality.
posted by mkultra at 10:15 AM on March 30, 2005

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, psychoses (incl. schizophrenia) tend to "burn out" as the patient hits middle age, as the brain literally does not have the energy to keep reconciling "your" reality with "real" reality.

Are you saying there are no geriatric schizophrenics? That doesn't seem likely to me.
posted by jjg at 10:25 AM on March 30, 2005

It's normal, at least for me. This has been happening to me for as long as I remember. For me, there's just the hint that people are lying or keeping something from me or that they might've seen some non-existent stain on my clothes. When I lived with roommates, there was the constant feeling that somebody else had been inside my room unbeknownst to me, sometimes even the feeling that my roomates were plotting against me. Sometimes I'll meet somebody or enter a place and just get a general feeling of unease. And yes, sometimes I even hear voices or sense presences that aren't there. (Though the voices are pretty rare). I don't think it's paranoia or schizophrenia (hough, like you, there was a time in college when I was a bit worried. After speaking to a few professional-type friends, I'm thinking it's just a consequence of a lonely childhood with a not-so-pleasant family life.

I don't think it's such a bad thing. My "hyper-sensitivity," as I like to call it, to other people and my environment has saved my life in the past. Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.

As long as it doesn't significantly degrade the quality of your life, you're fine.
posted by nixerman at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2005

Actually, there are varieties of schizophrenia that show no symptoms and display onset in middle age, viz., Phil Ochs.

Anyway, I would say that this is an unusual behavior that raises some question about mental health. It may not be anything terrible, and in fact, if you seek a diagnosis it's quite possible you'll get one. Psychiatrists are trained to look for signs of illness, and there have been many studies where they've diagnosed people who are completely mentally healthy with illnesses based on context (the people were presented as residents of a psychiatric hospital). In other words, there is a big range of normal. But given your family history, it may be worth having one conversation with a professional.

People have mentioned a few things worth following up on. For isntance, many have noted that as a teenager or young adult, they believed people were looking at them, were unusually happy/angry to see them, focused on their behavior, etc,, and that this faded with maturity. That feeling is a normal part of adolescent development called "the egocentric illusion". It's why teenagers walk 20 feet behind their parents in public places, and secretly suspect they are greatness incarnate. As the brain matures it goes through a long phase where you believe you are far more noteworthy, obvious, important, or special than you really are.

Another comment mentioned thinking that public messages are directed at or about you. That's called "illusions of reference" and it is a symptom of psychosis. For instance, thinking that a person on TV or a web site is addressing himself directly to you, or that everyone in a room is talking about you (when they aren't). Again, there are times in all of our lives when we might experience this once or twice. If it's isolated and unusual, it's probably not pathological. But if it's part of a regular pattern of thinking, it's something to be aware of and cautious about.
posted by Miko at 10:27 AM on March 30, 2005

Make that, show no symtoms until they display onset...
posted by Miko at 10:29 AM on March 30, 2005

One more link: resources for finding a clinician trained to detect prodomal symptoms of psychotic illnesses (note: this is by no means an exact science yet, and there is still much debate over how consistent/effective clinicians are with this, if it can be done reliably at all):
http://info.med.yale.edu/psych/clinics/prime/diagnostic.html

Also, it is certain personality disorders (which sometimes may have psychotic features)--NOT schitzophrenia--that can "burn out" over time.
posted by availablelight at 10:57 AM on March 30, 2005

I know schizophrenics and have at least one in my family. What you say sounds like them. However, I also just know a lot of people who are various types of paranoid and what you say also sounds like them. To my ear, there are subtle differences between the two, that is, the two types of people sound different to me in what they think is possible and not possible. So, for example:

Schizophrenic concerns [more random, more inexplicable]
- people are visually spying on me through my computer
- the women in my office have somehow read my private journals and posted them on the internet somewhere I can't find them
- the reason that person doesn't like my idea is because they know a secret about me and they tell it to everyone once I leave the room

Other paranoids [more power-based, more likely]
- the government is spying on me and what I do on the internet
- my boss is keeping tabs on me coming and going and has installed monitoring software on my computer without telling me
- those people are laughing together because they are talking about me

The main issues, as have already been pointed out are:
- do these thoughts cause you to question otherwise solid understandings about the way the world works [i.e. the spying through the monitor thing requres fairly serious structuring in a way that is totally unlikely, as you said in your question "highly unlikely"]?
- do these thoughts seem to focus on a certain person or types of people [as in the "women know my secrets" example]?
- do these thoughts get in your way and keep you from living your life in a way you would otherwise want to?

Paranoia about paranoia is pretty normal. I have it, for sure. If you feel like your logic is maintaining the upper hand and you're not unduly troubled by these thoughts, IMHO I would just let them be and keep an eye on them in case they get worse.
posted by jessamyn at 11:00 AM on March 30, 2005

Delusions are fixed beliefs that cannot be refuted by anyone even though they are demonstrably not true and are not believed by others (that latter part is in there to remove articles of religious faith). Delusions are a hallmark of psychosis. This is because one central tenet about psychosis is inability to "reality check," which means, roughly, be able to distinguish between inner reality and outer reality.

The fact that you can reality check (i.e., evaluate your inner reality thought and compare it with the outer reality of the circumstances you are in, and have a reasoned response to your paranoid idea) is a good thing. Many people have a paranoid bent to their personality, and some professions seem to almost require it. Police, for example, need to have a slightly paranoid edge. It seems like I read somewhere that most psychologists do, as they tend to believe that there is a secret meaning to what people do, and deep significance to what to others might be random slips of the tongue, etc.

I'd suggest that you check in with yourself about this from time to time. If you have a good friend that you can trust, talk about it with him or her, or see a therapist if you feel that it would be nice to confide about this with someone. Also, for sure, look at your habits and see if there are things that you are doing (especially drug and alcohol use) that increase this propensity, or that you sometimes use to "treat" yourself - if you are doing the former, abstain from substances. If the latter, do see a therapist, as you may be "self-medicating."
posted by jasper411 at 11:26 AM on March 30, 2005

Also, it is certain personality disorders (which sometimes may have psychotic features)--NOT schitzophrenia--that can "burn out" over time.

Ah, thanks, availablelight. I knew I was somehow partly right, or something ;).
posted by mkultra at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2005

Whilst I was In my mid-twenties (or thereabout) I believed I was being followed by mini-vans. Each time one would turn off my route, another would take it's place. In another place in my brain, I knew I was absolutely bonkers because there wasn't any reason for anyone to follow me. Yet, I couldn't quite shake the feeling. This continued for several years.

I hadn't thought about it for years until yesterday. It happened again - I knew certain vehicles were following me. (Odd timing for this question.)

As far as I know there isn't any schizophrenia in my family. I wonder if any of the meds I'm on could cause it.

So, to answer the question, it apparently happens often enough. I just don't know if it's normal.
posted by deborah at 12:09 PM on March 30, 2005

Availablelight: thanks for the link to the Yale study. I'm going to look into that.

To follow up on some questions: the thoughts are always situations that involve people I know doing things that obey the laws of physics. So while I don't think someone is watching me through the TV, I've wondered if people had installed logging software on my computer, or if there were hidden cameras where I work, or if someone had read my journal while I was away from my desk. They aren't thoughts that get in the way of my everyday life, and I do shake them off, but it concerned me that I was jumping directly to the paranoid explainations so often.

Thanks so much to everyone for the great replies so far. (this time I was right... you all really were talking about me!)

I do think I'm going to go with what a lot of you have mentioned and make an appointment with a psychiatrist just for kicks. It can't hurt.
posted by 4easypayments at 12:44 PM on March 30, 2005

this is a general thing, rather than something you've just felt recently, right? i was mildly paranoid for a short while, and it was very unpleasant, but it was related to a pretty clear moment of stress in my life, and the moment when i realised i was "mad" was when it all started to get better. so in my (very limited) experience being aware that it's wrong means it's not that bad. but it was just a week or so, not for most of my life. good luck.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:19 PM on March 30, 2005

This is irrational, but not unusual. Such feelings may be aggravated by stress or high expectations, either of yourself, or by others of you.

It does IMHO have something to do with how comfortable you are with who you are.

I recommend you seek out a therapist who has worked in self psychology.
I had similar experiences, though not as strong, for years. Although it took some time (months), I found a way to genuinely connect with people and lost many of the misgivings of social interaction. YMMV, and you may be experiencing an affective disorder that can be medicated while you sort the fundamentals out. Paroxetine, aka Paxil, may be an appropriate medication. I am not an authority on the subject; I experienced something similar; I wish you well and good luck.
posted by nj_subgenius at 6:12 PM on March 30, 2005

Based on the the sorts of things you mention, as well as what I can tell of your general outlook, it seems to me that it's extremely unlikely that you're paranoid, 4easypayments. The thoughts you mention probably occur to most of us, so it's more a question of frequency, intensity and discomfort, I imagine. But, yeah — a little assistance in finding a way to frame these fears and additional help in systems of working through them would probably be useful, as well as possibly putting your mind at ease in relation to the question.
posted by taz at 9:10 PM on March 30, 2005

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Starting freshman year in college I began having thoughts of jumping out the window, and generally being violent or inappropriate to myself and others. The more I thought about it, the worse it got (slowly, and over time). Then I told my boyfriend and best friend. And turns out, both of them have similar thoughts, pay them no mind, and they come occasionally. Their take is: don't worry about it and it won't be such a focus, and will slowly fade.

That said, I did start seeing a therapist, and I think just taking some time to think over myself and my direction in life helped reduce my overall anxiety. Which, incidentally, is also a result of not getting over-concerned about the thoughts in the first place. So I guess my advice is: relax, pay attention to yourself in general, don't worry about the paranoia specifically.

As a point of comfort: you may have already cleared the age at which schizophrenia usually shows up (18-25). I'm 23 and just getting to that age without incident has taken care of my worries over potential mental health disorders.
posted by lorrer at 9:24 PM on March 30, 2005

While you are at it, have your thyroid checked.
I have experienced something similar. I went through a period of time when I was sure of covert things, such saying something "stupid" while out with friends, and how whne I left, they were all talking about me. When my thyroid medication was adjusted properly, the feelings of paranoia diappeared completely.
posted by oflinkey at 9:26 PM on March 30, 2005