Transferring PhD programs
October 16, 2010 1:14 PM Subscribe
I just started my first year of graduate school, and I'm disappointed with my PhD program. What now?
I know it's early, but in the month I've been here so far, I've learned a few things about the program that I didn't know when I accepted my offer: Faculty are uninterested and uninvolved with students, the program is disorganized and lax, which leaves students unprepared for the job market, and a bunch of faculty are about to retire or leave in the coming years, including the professor whose interests most closely match my own. The university also has a hiring freeze on, so its very unclear whether these faculty members will be replaced by the time I'm ready to pick a supervisor and a committee. This has been gleaned from a combination of my own experience, and from chatting with a lot of the upper-year students.
I'm at a reasonably prestigious school, and it's a program in the humanities. I know, I know - but I want to be in graduate school, I really do. Just in a better program. The program is an interdisciplinary one, and it shares its faculty with the two much larger disciplines it studies. Say, for example, I was in a Slavic Languages & Literature program (I'm not) - every faculty is cross-appointed between my program, and either the Slavic Studies department, or the English department. I applied to the English department, and got accepted for the MA, but declined it on the basis of not wanting to re-apply for the PhD - now I really regret that, as I see that the English department is a much better graduate program, and there's a lot of that department's strengths that I'm not able to access from my current position. (I have changed all 3 departments involved here, for the sake of preserving my anonymity.)
Basically, I'm thinking about transferring. Again, I know it's early, but I want to keep my options open, in case my feelings about the program don't change. I'm aware that transferring usually involves re-doing some coursework - I'm okay with that.
So, here are my questions:
1) Is there anything I can do, at this early stage, to ensure a successful transfer to a better school in 1-2 years?
2) Is there anything I can do to transfer into the English department at my school? (This would really be my top choice.)
3) How do I discreetly make inquiries about this?
4) Is it hard to transfer? Do people look down upon it? Are my reasons considered sufficient?
I know it's early, but in the month I've been here so far, I've learned a few things about the program that I didn't know when I accepted my offer: Faculty are uninterested and uninvolved with students, the program is disorganized and lax, which leaves students unprepared for the job market, and a bunch of faculty are about to retire or leave in the coming years, including the professor whose interests most closely match my own. The university also has a hiring freeze on, so its very unclear whether these faculty members will be replaced by the time I'm ready to pick a supervisor and a committee. This has been gleaned from a combination of my own experience, and from chatting with a lot of the upper-year students.
I'm at a reasonably prestigious school, and it's a program in the humanities. I know, I know - but I want to be in graduate school, I really do. Just in a better program. The program is an interdisciplinary one, and it shares its faculty with the two much larger disciplines it studies. Say, for example, I was in a Slavic Languages & Literature program (I'm not) - every faculty is cross-appointed between my program, and either the Slavic Studies department, or the English department. I applied to the English department, and got accepted for the MA, but declined it on the basis of not wanting to re-apply for the PhD - now I really regret that, as I see that the English department is a much better graduate program, and there's a lot of that department's strengths that I'm not able to access from my current position. (I have changed all 3 departments involved here, for the sake of preserving my anonymity.)
Basically, I'm thinking about transferring. Again, I know it's early, but I want to keep my options open, in case my feelings about the program don't change. I'm aware that transferring usually involves re-doing some coursework - I'm okay with that.
So, here are my questions:
1) Is there anything I can do, at this early stage, to ensure a successful transfer to a better school in 1-2 years?
2) Is there anything I can do to transfer into the English department at my school? (This would really be my top choice.)
3) How do I discreetly make inquiries about this?
4) Is it hard to transfer? Do people look down upon it? Are my reasons considered sufficient?
I don't know the good way out, but I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. The infighting in my new department and unmentioned loophole in the support I was promised have me thinking about the same kinds of questions.
posted by Blasdelb at 1:24 PM on October 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Blasdelb at 1:24 PM on October 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm sure it varies depending on university, but you should be able to transfer departments as long as you 1) find a professor in the English department who would be willing to take you on as an advisee and 2) do very well in your classes this semester (if you're taking any) so you can prove that the English department wouldn't be taking a risk on having you. Making a professor friend is the most important. In my department, it's not unusual for graduate students to come to a professor's office hours or schedule an appointment to just talk about research ideas somewhat related to the professor's own work-- that's a good way to get them to at least know your name.
posted by oinopaponton at 1:29 PM on October 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by oinopaponton at 1:29 PM on October 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
PS- Even if they won't let you switch departments, there should be no reason why you can't work closely with a professor you like, even if he or she isn't in your department (unless your university is really into segregating students by department, which I guess could be the case). My department is sort of similarly interwoven with a couple other on campus, and I've had no trouble getting face time with professors from other related departments.
posted by oinopaponton at 1:36 PM on October 16, 2010
posted by oinopaponton at 1:36 PM on October 16, 2010
I'm an administrator for a PhD Program in the Humanities on the East Coast, US. At our School, students can not transfer from one Program to another, they must go through the application/admissions process like all other students considered for admission. Sometimes these students get admitted, sometimes they don't. Things that help: a clear explantion based on research project as to why this student wants to study in our Program (true whether the student is coming from another Program or a whole other University) and a letter of recommendation from a faculty member in our Program. Can you take classes in the Program at your School to which you want to transfer? If so, do. When you apply to an outside Program be prepared to write a strong argument based on your research interest for the new School. And, do not, in either case include anything of your disapointment in your current Program. That's also how you make discreet inquiries: "since i've been in Program X, my reasearch has taken me on direction that fits better the approach and faculty of Program Y."
posted by Pineapplicious at 1:44 PM on October 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Pineapplicious at 1:44 PM on October 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
A student in my program did this.
He took a few core classes in our department (he was in ed, we are comm) and held his own.
He spoke to the grad advisor and chair and they welcomed him.
He was much more of a sure thing than an incoming applicant.
First take a few courses next term if you can. Do well.
I'd talk to the destination department faculty and throw around (and mean it!) things like 'better match' 'theoretical orientation more in line with my interests.'
posted by k8t at 1:50 PM on October 16, 2010
He took a few core classes in our department (he was in ed, we are comm) and held his own.
He spoke to the grad advisor and chair and they welcomed him.
He was much more of a sure thing than an incoming applicant.
First take a few courses next term if you can. Do well.
I'd talk to the destination department faculty and throw around (and mean it!) things like 'better match' 'theoretical orientation more in line with my interests.'
posted by k8t at 1:50 PM on October 16, 2010
I applied to the English department, and got accepted for the MA, but declined it on the basis of not wanting to re-apply for the PhD
Rest assured, you made a good decision by not going to the MA in English program, especially if you had to pay for it.
You might not be able to "transfer departments" so much as stay in your current department and do your thesis work with a professor in your preferred department. You'll still have to fulfill the academic requirements of your "home department," but you will work with a professor you would be happier with. The question is, of course, how to get a mentor in a department you're not a part of.
Transferring is hard, but if you do decide to go that route, rest assured that you're much better off given that you've just started the program rather than decided to transfer after a few years in.
posted by deanc at 2:29 PM on October 16, 2010
Rest assured, you made a good decision by not going to the MA in English program, especially if you had to pay for it.
You might not be able to "transfer departments" so much as stay in your current department and do your thesis work with a professor in your preferred department. You'll still have to fulfill the academic requirements of your "home department," but you will work with a professor you would be happier with. The question is, of course, how to get a mentor in a department you're not a part of.
Transferring is hard, but if you do decide to go that route, rest assured that you're much better off given that you've just started the program rather than decided to transfer after a few years in.
posted by deanc at 2:29 PM on October 16, 2010
This has been gleaned from a combination of my own experience, and from chatting with a lot of the upper-year students.
If you haven't talked to people who are actually employed by your institution and in a position to know the information you're getting from upper-year students, you are considering a transfer based on rumor.
You haven't done your due diligence yet. When you express your concerns to the powers that be, they can probably help you sort through your questions and maybe even provide better solutions to your actual problems than you've been able to come up with yourself.
posted by toomuchpete at 2:40 PM on October 16, 2010
If you haven't talked to people who are actually employed by your institution and in a position to know the information you're getting from upper-year students, you are considering a transfer based on rumor.
You haven't done your due diligence yet. When you express your concerns to the powers that be, they can probably help you sort through your questions and maybe even provide better solutions to your actual problems than you've been able to come up with yourself.
posted by toomuchpete at 2:40 PM on October 16, 2010
I myself switched graduate programs (at the same school) after one year, although it helped a lot that my adviser was in both departments and I had a portable external fellowship. Many people move from one grad program to another. It is entirely common, and the earlier you do it the better.
No one will look down on you for transferring if you can make an intellectual case for doing so (and your adviser leaving is a good one). Don't focus however, on a critique of the program you're in. Focus on the attractions of the one(s) you want to move to. It's just like applying the first time.
Since you have a year or two, work on concluding with a terminal MA while you line up your ducks. Do excellent work; the one thing you can't afford is to give any whiff of moving because you're not doing well where you are. And you will need good letters (and the excellent writing sample from that fine MA essay you'll write) from at least one or two of your current faculty that make the case on your behalf, so develop a relationship with a trusted faculty mentor with whom you can develop this plan. I have sent my own advisees on to other programs where I thought they were a better fit or that made more career sense given their interests in the past. It's just business, no one takes it personally if they're serious.
You're not alone. It's a common predicament. Times are a little tough right now and some grad programs are downsizing their students (or cutting funding) and/or (as yours is) suffering hiring freezes or faculty cuts. In the end, a huge percentage of a successful graduate education in the humanities comes from work you can do anywhere, since you're doing it yourself, and for yourself. Nothing stops you from making connections with faculty in other departments or at other universities (make sure you attend meetings) to get on their radar, and to get the feedback you might not be getting from your current faculty.
On the other hand, just to play devil's advocate, you're only a couple of months in. Graduate school is messy in general, even in the best of times. It's such a self-directed, self-motivated path to take Faculty are always moving and leaving, budgets are forever unpredictable, and if you're fully funded at a prestigious program already, make sure the grass really is greener and you're not just upending a perfectly good apple cart. You can take full advantage of the university at large, including that better run grad program, by developing relationships. You haven't been there long enough to have really tried this. So take classes out of your department or program, go to colloquia in the other, better run department, etc.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:09 PM on October 16, 2010
No one will look down on you for transferring if you can make an intellectual case for doing so (and your adviser leaving is a good one). Don't focus however, on a critique of the program you're in. Focus on the attractions of the one(s) you want to move to. It's just like applying the first time.
Since you have a year or two, work on concluding with a terminal MA while you line up your ducks. Do excellent work; the one thing you can't afford is to give any whiff of moving because you're not doing well where you are. And you will need good letters (and the excellent writing sample from that fine MA essay you'll write) from at least one or two of your current faculty that make the case on your behalf, so develop a relationship with a trusted faculty mentor with whom you can develop this plan. I have sent my own advisees on to other programs where I thought they were a better fit or that made more career sense given their interests in the past. It's just business, no one takes it personally if they're serious.
You're not alone. It's a common predicament. Times are a little tough right now and some grad programs are downsizing their students (or cutting funding) and/or (as yours is) suffering hiring freezes or faculty cuts. In the end, a huge percentage of a successful graduate education in the humanities comes from work you can do anywhere, since you're doing it yourself, and for yourself. Nothing stops you from making connections with faculty in other departments or at other universities (make sure you attend meetings) to get on their radar, and to get the feedback you might not be getting from your current faculty.
On the other hand, just to play devil's advocate, you're only a couple of months in. Graduate school is messy in general, even in the best of times. It's such a self-directed, self-motivated path to take Faculty are always moving and leaving, budgets are forever unpredictable, and if you're fully funded at a prestigious program already, make sure the grass really is greener and you're not just upending a perfectly good apple cart. You can take full advantage of the university at large, including that better run grad program, by developing relationships. You haven't been there long enough to have really tried this. So take classes out of your department or program, go to colloquia in the other, better run department, etc.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:09 PM on October 16, 2010
In some cases though, transferring to a very competitive program is relatively tough. I've certainly heard the attitude "we have 10 excellent candidates for every spot, and this person wants to transfer. The only thing differentiating him from the other nine is that things didn't work out at the place he's currently at. Who knows if it was the person or the place?" To get around that issue, you would need to become a known quantity -- so either develop an amazing academic reputation or (this is easier) get to know the faculty in the school/department you wish to work for, so when the times comes to apply, they'll have the information to judge you accurately and would want you as a student, as opposed to you being an unknown quantity that's riskier than a fresh admit.
posted by bsdfish at 10:08 PM on October 16, 2010
posted by bsdfish at 10:08 PM on October 16, 2010
Based on your question, it seems like you were not really prepared for the application process. What you're discovering this semester could have been easily learned from candid conversations with two or three differently-placed academics in your field (never rely on one, or on academics all from the same tier institution or background) or at worst, some well-connected, advanced graduate students.
It's no secret who is retiring, which departments have reputations for faculty working closely with students, placement records, etc. And you should definitely know what people think of working with your prospective advisor. Ideally you know all that before you apply, definitely before you accept.
I agree with both toomuchpete and fourcheesemac. Programs are always in a state of flux, some times more than others. You don't really know yours yet at all. Make some relationships with faculty you could take with you if you did leave.
Some of what you're feeling might be the transition from the US undergraduate experience that unquestioningly affirms the students' desire (demand) to feel unique and outstanding, to the postgraduate jolt that life does not actually work that way.
Obviously you are talented, and I do not think you should give up your place in this program.
A final thought about advanced graduate students in the humanities who have time to sit around and expound upon departmental politics with first years... I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt. If they are unprepared for the job market and so out of touch, they should not be wasting time gossiping. And with first year students, what do these gossipers get out of this?
Find out about the graduate students who have finished and left. How many are they and what are they doing now? Compare the numbers and that might tell you something about your sources and the program.
Whatever the case, the advanced graduate students have no idea what goes on on the faculty side.
Transferring this year is a really bad idea.
posted by vincele at 10:42 PM on October 16, 2010
It's no secret who is retiring, which departments have reputations for faculty working closely with students, placement records, etc. And you should definitely know what people think of working with your prospective advisor. Ideally you know all that before you apply, definitely before you accept.
I agree with both toomuchpete and fourcheesemac. Programs are always in a state of flux, some times more than others. You don't really know yours yet at all. Make some relationships with faculty you could take with you if you did leave.
Some of what you're feeling might be the transition from the US undergraduate experience that unquestioningly affirms the students' desire (demand) to feel unique and outstanding, to the postgraduate jolt that life does not actually work that way.
Obviously you are talented, and I do not think you should give up your place in this program.
A final thought about advanced graduate students in the humanities who have time to sit around and expound upon departmental politics with first years... I'd take anything they say with a grain of salt. If they are unprepared for the job market and so out of touch, they should not be wasting time gossiping. And with first year students, what do these gossipers get out of this?
Find out about the graduate students who have finished and left. How many are they and what are they doing now? Compare the numbers and that might tell you something about your sources and the program.
Whatever the case, the advanced graduate students have no idea what goes on on the faculty side.
Transferring this year is a really bad idea.
posted by vincele at 10:42 PM on October 16, 2010
I felt this way during my master's program, and I looked into transferring to a related department within the same school. Turns out you have to reapply using the same procedure as everyone else--I ended up staying in my original dept because even if I were accepted, I would be almost done with my other MA before I could even start. The policy at my current school is the same; there's no graduate equivalent of "changing majors."
posted by amberwb at 11:40 AM on October 17, 2010
posted by amberwb at 11:40 AM on October 17, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:21 PM on October 16, 2010