Laws with unexpected or unintended effects?
October 15, 2010 6:11 PM Subscribe
Laws which had an unexpected or unintended effect?
I've been watching Boardwalk Empire and it's got me interested in Prohibition and its unexpected effects. Can anyone recommend sources that look at similar laws (not even necessarily about alcohol) that had an unexpected/undesired effect? Alternatively, any specific pieces of legislation that I would be able to read about?
I've been watching Boardwalk Empire and it's got me interested in Prohibition and its unexpected effects. Can anyone recommend sources that look at similar laws (not even necessarily about alcohol) that had an unexpected/undesired effect? Alternatively, any specific pieces of legislation that I would be able to read about?
Some argue that the Paperwork Reduction Act has, in the end, increased paperwork and forms.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:16 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:16 PM on October 15, 2010
Possibly safety laws...seat belts/speed limits/helmet laws which reduce # of accidents, or reduce injuries? Or, anything I guess that is done to protect us from getting a Darwin Award, which as a result might increase life span, add to health care costs, demands on SS or pensions. Just spitballing...but you get the poin tthen eh?
posted by timsteil at 6:23 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by timsteil at 6:23 PM on October 15, 2010
Legislators choose laws for their 0th-order effects; economists work to predict their 1st-order effects; nobody can predict their 2nd-order effects, and nobody even possibly hope to identify their 3rd-order effects.
You will also find that any answer to this question is badly inflected by the politics of the person answering.
Moreover -- unexpected by whom? The general public and a few of the legislators who passed it may have imagined that liquor licensing exists in order to reduce the sale of alcohol, but the liquor lobby knew all along that the real purpose was to generate monopoly power for whichever bars do get licenses, etc, etc.
posted by foursentences at 6:25 PM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
You will also find that any answer to this question is badly inflected by the politics of the person answering.
Moreover -- unexpected by whom? The general public and a few of the legislators who passed it may have imagined that liquor licensing exists in order to reduce the sale of alcohol, but the liquor lobby knew all along that the real purpose was to generate monopoly power for whichever bars do get licenses, etc, etc.
posted by foursentences at 6:25 PM on October 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Depending on which economists you listen to, minimum wage laws actually make things worse for workers. Those economists would suggest that alternatives like the Earned Income Tax Credit are more effective and efficient.
There's pretty much indisputable empirical evidence that drug criminalization has had massive unintended consequences. They've increased crime, poverty, and disease, which have in turn actually increased drug use.
posted by jedicus at 6:30 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's pretty much indisputable empirical evidence that drug criminalization has had massive unintended consequences. They've increased crime, poverty, and disease, which have in turn actually increased drug use.
posted by jedicus at 6:30 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Some say that increased padding in American football has actually increased the number of injuries - you're more likely to propel yourself at someone with great force if you're swaddled in foam and plastic than if all you've got is a leather cap and some knee socks.
The entire modern existence of the Supreme Court as an entity with the power of judicial review, as an entity with the power that it has, might have very much surprised the Founding Fathers.
Sometimes, intersections with reduced visibility become more dangerous after visibility is improved. If you can't see through the tall grass where the other cars are, you'll be extra careful, but if you can see the other car from a ways off, you might think, "oh, I can beat him," even though you're crap at predictions.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:32 PM on October 15, 2010
The entire modern existence of the Supreme Court as an entity with the power of judicial review, as an entity with the power that it has, might have very much surprised the Founding Fathers.
Sometimes, intersections with reduced visibility become more dangerous after visibility is improved. If you can't see through the tall grass where the other cars are, you'll be extra careful, but if you can see the other car from a ways off, you might think, "oh, I can beat him," even though you're crap at predictions.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:32 PM on October 15, 2010
The recent laws banning texting while driving may be leading to higher accident rates:
Adrian Lund, president of the institutes, said the uptick in crashes may result from compounding distractions -- the act of texting while driving and also trying to hide the phone by holding it lower, which takes eyes off the road even longer.posted by jenkinsEar at 6:33 PM on October 15, 2010
Laws that ban using mobile devices while driving seem to lead to increased accident rates, most likely because it means people are hiding their devices and therefore have their eyes even further from the road than they would have if the devices were legal to use.
posted by Emanuel at 6:34 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Emanuel at 6:34 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Bicycle helmet laws may be another example. In most jurisdictions that have them, death rates from bicycle accidents have actually gone up since they were introduced. One theory for why is that a major factor in reducing bicycle accidents in the number of cyclists using the roads. Since bicycle helmet laws always reduce the number of bicyclists (often by 20-30%), that leads to more accidents. If you look at it from the point of view of overall health, the result is even worse because the benefits of being active (by, for example, cycling) vastly outweigh the risks of injury or death, and making people feel that cycling is dangerous reduces the number of cyclists (who presumably use their cars instead).
posted by Emanuel at 6:41 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Emanuel at 6:41 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
In Australia, during the earlier part of the 20th century, pubs and taverns had a mandated closing time of 6pm. This was intended to cut down on drinking and send men home from work (5pm finish) to their families earlier (and more sober).
Instead, we ended up with the Six O'Clock Swill, with the patrons attempting to fit as much alcohol as possible in before 6pm. Older pubs will usually be tiled outside - supposedly this is a result of the sheer amount of staggering and puking that went on (tile being easier to hose down than painted masonry).
Wikipedia has an excellent article about the phenomenon. It's one of my favourite laws-that-didn't-quite-work-out-as-expected.
posted by ninazer0 at 6:51 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Instead, we ended up with the Six O'Clock Swill, with the patrons attempting to fit as much alcohol as possible in before 6pm. Older pubs will usually be tiled outside - supposedly this is a result of the sheer amount of staggering and puking that went on (tile being easier to hose down than painted masonry).
Wikipedia has an excellent article about the phenomenon. It's one of my favourite laws-that-didn't-quite-work-out-as-expected.
posted by ninazer0 at 6:51 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
The increased criminalization of domestic violence, while on the whole a positive development from its previous total invisibility, has also led to unintended consequences, namely flowing from introducing the criminal justice system into the life of a family. Many of these consequences have highlighted how DV is part of a larger storm of personal, cultural, and sociological whorls and eddies. It's all the more obvious now that the solution to a DV problem is often not as simple as throwing the abuser into court and having that be that.
On another topic: many argue that underage drinking laws, especially those in the US, promote underage drunk driving and later binge drinking. If drunk kids would be able to comfortably tell their parents that they were drunk, their parents would never expect them to drive home. Instead, many kids know, or at least think, that they would be in serious trouble if they were to admit to being drunk at all.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:56 PM on October 15, 2010
On another topic: many argue that underage drinking laws, especially those in the US, promote underage drunk driving and later binge drinking. If drunk kids would be able to comfortably tell their parents that they were drunk, their parents would never expect them to drive home. Instead, many kids know, or at least think, that they would be in serious trouble if they were to admit to being drunk at all.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:56 PM on October 15, 2010
The 'three strikes' law in California has put people in prison for repeated, relatively petty offenses in many cases, when it was meant to crack down primarily on repeat violent crime. No one is really sure if it worked or not, since some violent crimes have increased but no one can tell if they would have increased more if we hadn't started imprisoning everyone who steals a pair of socks. The majority of people sentenced under three strikes were doing life terms for small time drug dealing, hence voters amended the law in 2000 so that people whose crimes were non-violent and drug related could get treatment instead of prison time. Nevertheless, prison crowding is at unsustainable levels and California is now famous for spending far more on its penal system than its schools.
posted by slow graffiti at 6:57 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by slow graffiti at 6:57 PM on October 15, 2010
Some say that increased padding in American football has actually increased the number of injuries - you're more likely to propel yourself at someone with great force if you're swaddled in foam and plastic than if all you've got is a leather cap and some knee socks.
Yeah, looking into research on moral hazard would probably be a good starting point for the OP.
posted by ripley_ at 7:01 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, looking into research on moral hazard would probably be a good starting point for the OP.
posted by ripley_ at 7:01 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Unintended Consequences (NYT)
"When the Americans With Disabilities Act was enacted in 1992, it led to a sharp drop in the employment of disabled workers.
/.../
This year, which happens to be a sabbatical year, the poorest Jews in Israel who wish to eat only food grown on non-Jewish land are left to buy imported goods at double or triple the regular price — all in order to uphold a law meant to help feed the poorest Jews in Israel.
/.../
Due to the Endangered Species Act, when a landowner felt that his property was turning into the sort of habitat that might attract a nesting pair of woodpeckers, he rushed in to cut down the trees."
posted by martinrebas at 7:11 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
"When the Americans With Disabilities Act was enacted in 1992, it led to a sharp drop in the employment of disabled workers.
/.../
This year, which happens to be a sabbatical year, the poorest Jews in Israel who wish to eat only food grown on non-Jewish land are left to buy imported goods at double or triple the regular price — all in order to uphold a law meant to help feed the poorest Jews in Israel.
/.../
Due to the Endangered Species Act, when a landowner felt that his property was turning into the sort of habitat that might attract a nesting pair of woodpeckers, he rushed in to cut down the trees."
posted by martinrebas at 7:11 PM on October 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Laws which had an unexpected or unintended effect?
All of them. I don't mean to sound dismissive, and it's a good question, but no legislature has enough time to puzzle out all of the effects of a particular law. One way to think of it is to consider the various types of "intent" jurisprudence employed by US courts: once you're at the stage of considering legislative intent (for reasons of textual indeterminacy or political expediency). you then have the public versus individual meaning, the fact that some legislators are undoubtedly gaming the system on a particular bill or are concern trolling, etc. Basically, even if you know in advance specifically which person(s)' intent you want to consider, you have to decide on a type of intent.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:17 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
All of them. I don't mean to sound dismissive, and it's a good question, but no legislature has enough time to puzzle out all of the effects of a particular law. One way to think of it is to consider the various types of "intent" jurisprudence employed by US courts: once you're at the stage of considering legislative intent (for reasons of textual indeterminacy or political expediency). you then have the public versus individual meaning, the fact that some legislators are undoubtedly gaming the system on a particular bill or are concern trolling, etc. Basically, even if you know in advance specifically which person(s)' intent you want to consider, you have to decide on a type of intent.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:17 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Current US import tariffs on trucks gave us the Subaru Brat (officially a car at import because of it's rear seats) and currently has Ford paying Americans to strip the seats from imported Transits sold for commercial use because manufacturing, installing and then removing the seats is cheaper than the tariff.
CAFE gave us the PT cruiser which is officially a truck. Even though it would meet car mileage targets the PT Cruisers relatively good mileage allowed Chrysler to increase the production of poor mileage heavy pickups equipped with big V8s and V10s.
The acetaminophen added to opiates to allow them to be sold with less regulation (because the mixture is less likely to be used recreationaly) is part of the reason acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver damage in the US.
posted by Mitheral at 7:22 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
CAFE gave us the PT cruiser which is officially a truck. Even though it would meet car mileage targets the PT Cruisers relatively good mileage allowed Chrysler to increase the production of poor mileage heavy pickups equipped with big V8s and V10s.
The acetaminophen added to opiates to allow them to be sold with less regulation (because the mixture is less likely to be used recreationaly) is part of the reason acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver damage in the US.
posted by Mitheral at 7:22 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
[Not strictly about a law's interpretation, but] An example of the legislative process having unintended consequences:
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 originally only protected African Americans. Howard Smith added women's rights to ensure that the bill would fail, but it actually ended up passing.
posted by yaymukund at 7:47 PM on October 15, 2010
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 originally only protected African Americans. Howard Smith added women's rights to ensure that the bill would fail, but it actually ended up passing.
posted by yaymukund at 7:47 PM on October 15, 2010
Constitutions in general. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a good example. S.7 says: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice." Just last week this section was used by an Ontario judge (subject to appeal) to rule prostitution legal in the province. I think the ruling will be overturned, but it's a good example regardless.
posted by smorange at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by smorange at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2010
Laws against buying pseudoephedrine, meant to cut down on small time meth labs in the U.S., have had the effect of making meth big business for Mexican drug cartels, who can produce huge quantities of high quality product, so the availability of a destructive drug has not been affected, but the purity has been improved, resulting in no real solution to the original problem. In fact, it may have made it worse.
posted by dortmunder at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by dortmunder at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
To go back to your original question about Prohibition, The Poisoner's Handbook is a fascinating look at how Prohibition led to a massive spike in poisonings (from bootlegged alcohol), which in turn led to significant advances in forensic toxicology and the rise of the first modern coroner's office.
posted by scody at 8:04 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by scody at 8:04 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
The one I first thought of was Nebraska's safe-haven law, which failed to define the age limit of an abandoned child. This led to a spate of abandoned children as old as 17yo...
posted by lgandme0717 at 8:26 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lgandme0717 at 8:26 PM on October 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
The original GI Bill was a bunch of varying programs intended to help veterans after WWII. The only hotly debated clause was a one-time payout to certain people. No one thought the educational provisions would actually be used by more than a very few veterans -- remember, in the 1940s, college was for the rich and the (vastly smaller) middle class, and it had always been that way, and everyone thought it was because those were simply "the sort" of people who wanted to go to college.
For the first few years, they were right. Then some of the guys started telling their buddies from the war about what a sweet deal college was. Ten years later, the American educational system -- and the entire American class system -- had irrevocably changed.
posted by Etrigan at 8:37 PM on October 15, 2010
For the first few years, they were right. Then some of the guys started telling their buddies from the war about what a sweet deal college was. Ten years later, the American educational system -- and the entire American class system -- had irrevocably changed.
posted by Etrigan at 8:37 PM on October 15, 2010
Malcolm Gladwell asserts that Roe vs. Wade inadvertently led to a major decrease in crime in New York City 15-20 years later (as opposed to the politicians' efforts to clean things up), because it meant fewer children were born into adverse circumstances, elements which contribute to criminal activity in adulthood.
posted by lhall at 9:05 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by lhall at 9:05 PM on October 15, 2010
Seeing oceano's link I realize it might have been the Freakonomics authors that assert the above. If so, my bad!
posted by lhall at 9:07 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by lhall at 9:07 PM on October 15, 2010
No Child Left Behind. Under certain circumstances, statutory rape laws.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2010
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2010
There was recently a great piece on This American Life (ep = Long Shot) concerning parole in California. The governor has the chance the reverse a parole board's decision to free an inmate and since no governor wants to be blamed for freeing a convict who then commits crimes (a la Willy Horton), 75-99% of paroles (for serious crimes, at least?) are denied.
The law giving the governor that power was passed as a ballot initiative. These often seem to end up being bad ideas.
posted by maryr at 9:58 PM on October 15, 2010
The law giving the governor that power was passed as a ballot initiative. These often seem to end up being bad ideas.
posted by maryr at 9:58 PM on October 15, 2010
smorange writes "Just last week this section was used by an Ontario judge (subject to appeal) to rule prostitution legal in the province."
It's a nitpick but an important one: prostitution has been legal in Canada for a long time and its status is unlikely to change. What hasn't been legal and is now in flux is public conversation for the purposes of prostitution, living off the prevails of prostitution, and operating a common bawdy-house (IE: brothel).
posted by Mitheral at 10:03 PM on October 15, 2010
It's a nitpick but an important one: prostitution has been legal in Canada for a long time and its status is unlikely to change. What hasn't been legal and is now in flux is public conversation for the purposes of prostitution, living off the prevails of prostitution, and operating a common bawdy-house (IE: brothel).
posted by Mitheral at 10:03 PM on October 15, 2010
Criminalizing abortion has led to more women seeking riskier abortions and a corresponding increase in abortion-related deaths. Death rate dropped when abortion was legalized again. One particularly known study covers Romania 1966-1990, but surely others exist. (source with graph)
posted by whatzit at 11:26 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by whatzit at 11:26 PM on October 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think I heard this on an NPR podcast, but it's a classic. The government in Mexico City (I think?) wanted to reduce air pollution, so they passed a city ordinance that limited the days you could drive your car, ordered by numberplate. So, people with license plates starting A > L could drive Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and the M > Z crowd got the other days of the week.
Anyway, what happened was that air pollution went up! People bought a load of total beater second cars with different letter license plates to get around the ban and actually ended up driving more, in cars with more emissions. So a law intended to do one thing actually did the complete reverse.
posted by Happy Dave at 9:38 AM on October 16, 2010
Anyway, what happened was that air pollution went up! People bought a load of total beater second cars with different letter license plates to get around the ban and actually ended up driving more, in cars with more emissions. So a law intended to do one thing actually did the complete reverse.
posted by Happy Dave at 9:38 AM on October 16, 2010
Continuing the notes on prostitution laws, Australia recently conducted a study on two similar jurisdictions, with prostitution illegal in only one of them. The result was that the law had no significant on the number of brothels (and by implication, the availability and frequency of prostitution), but illegalizing it had a negative effect on public health (black market prostitutes can't be regulated into regular STD screenings & treatment).
posted by IAmBroom at 10:35 AM on October 16, 2010
posted by IAmBroom at 10:35 AM on October 16, 2010
"No Child Left Behind."
"What are the unintended effects?"
Children left behind?
posted by astrochimp at 11:36 AM on October 16, 2010
"What are the unintended effects?"
Children left behind?
posted by astrochimp at 11:36 AM on October 16, 2010
In Dallas, smoking was outlawed indoors for health reasons, but bar revenues went up as a result.
posted by cmoj at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by cmoj at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by wwartorff at 6:14 PM on October 15, 2010 [6 favorites]