Should we make piano students coming to our home sign a waiver?
October 11, 2010 4:08 PM Subscribe
Should we make piano students coming to our home sign a waiver?
You're not my lawyer or insurance agent. My wife teaches piano in a house we rent. Student's siblings play with my kids while they wait for lessons. Should we make them sign some sort of waiver? Do we need special insurance?
You're not my lawyer or insurance agent. My wife teaches piano in a house we rent. Student's siblings play with my kids while they wait for lessons. Should we make them sign some sort of waiver? Do we need special insurance?
You generally cannot contract out of negligence, so any waiver such as 'I absolve you of any responsibility for injuries caused by your or my actions or omissions or the state of the premises' would likely be legally ineffective. It would also be a poor first impression, in my opinion.
posted by kid A at 4:27 PM on October 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by kid A at 4:27 PM on October 11, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I am an attorney, but I am not your attorney, and this is not legal advice.
You generally cannot contract out of negligence, so any waiver such as 'I absolve you of any responsibility for injuries caused by your or my actions or omissions or the state of the premises' would likely be legally ineffective.
This is flatly untrue. Please do not make broad, uninformed statements about the law like that
sisquoc15: You should check your homeowner's insurance policy and consult a competent attorney in your jurisdiction. At the very least you should be aware of the additional risks you may be taking on by using your home as a place of business. Ask about a free consultation and a fixed-fee arrangement for the waiver, so that you know exactly how much it will cost for one to be written for you.
posted by jedicus at 4:57 PM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
You generally cannot contract out of negligence, so any waiver such as 'I absolve you of any responsibility for injuries caused by your or my actions or omissions or the state of the premises' would likely be legally ineffective.
This is flatly untrue. Please do not make broad, uninformed statements about the law like that
sisquoc15: You should check your homeowner's insurance policy and consult a competent attorney in your jurisdiction. At the very least you should be aware of the additional risks you may be taking on by using your home as a place of business. Ask about a free consultation and a fixed-fee arrangement for the waiver, so that you know exactly how much it will cost for one to be written for you.
posted by jedicus at 4:57 PM on October 11, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think it would make a better first impression if you made this part of a general "new student agreement" that parents sign before the first lesson. This document could cover details of payment, expectations for teacher and student, and yes, a waiver of liability drafted by a competent attorney as jedicus suggests.
Keep in mind that defending yourself against a lawsuit will be rather expensive even with a waiver, so insurance really is the best answer if it can be obtained at a reasonable cost.
posted by zachlipton at 5:20 PM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
Keep in mind that defending yourself against a lawsuit will be rather expensive even with a waiver, so insurance really is the best answer if it can be obtained at a reasonable cost.
posted by zachlipton at 5:20 PM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
IANYL, but yes, given common legal principles that make a person more responsible to business invitees than to other visitors or trespassers, this is an excellent idea. It is worth the investment to get some paid legal advice on whatever you create. It is also worth it to get an insurance rider that covers problems arising from the use of your home as a business.
posted by bearwife at 5:41 PM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bearwife at 5:41 PM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
And of course, no legal or semi-legal advice is worth anything without considering jurisdiction.
In Australia, where the courts tend to retain a degree of common law common sense and aren't so bound by litigious whims of no fee no service legal firms, I would think that a legal waiver would be of very minor use, and not anything worth the hassle and perceptions that it would generate.
Students siblings playing remain the concern of the parents, you'd have rights to extract damages in the event of , well I can't really think of a scenario... and you've got insurance.
As for injuries to the kids, it's no different whatsoever to a birthday party - would you get attendees at a birthday party to sign waivers?
If you're negligent, it's your fault no matter what they signed. if you're not negligent, it's not your fault no matter what they try to pin on you.
posted by wilful at 6:09 PM on October 11, 2010
In Australia, where the courts tend to retain a degree of common law common sense and aren't so bound by litigious whims of no fee no service legal firms, I would think that a legal waiver would be of very minor use, and not anything worth the hassle and perceptions that it would generate.
Students siblings playing remain the concern of the parents, you'd have rights to extract damages in the event of , well I can't really think of a scenario... and you've got insurance.
As for injuries to the kids, it's no different whatsoever to a birthday party - would you get attendees at a birthday party to sign waivers?
If you're negligent, it's your fault no matter what they signed. if you're not negligent, it's not your fault no matter what they try to pin on you.
posted by wilful at 6:09 PM on October 11, 2010
And of course, no legal or semi-legal advice is worth anything without considering jurisdiction.
sisquoc15 is evidently located in the US. The Australian perspective, as presented by you and (apparently) kid A, is interesting but not particularly helpful here.
posted by jedicus at 6:27 PM on October 11, 2010
sisquoc15 is evidently located in the US. The Australian perspective, as presented by you and (apparently) kid A, is interesting but not particularly helpful here.
posted by jedicus at 6:27 PM on October 11, 2010
Best answer: This is pretty much what business insurance is for. Yes, try the waiver- can't hurt- but what you really need is real insurance. I have a lot of friends with private studios, and the smart ones are insured. It's not too onerous to get set up, and in the event that something happens you really, really will wish you had done this.
posted by charmedimsure at 8:25 PM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by charmedimsure at 8:25 PM on October 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
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Personally, I'd ask parents signing their kids up for lessons to sign a waiver, yes, especially if they're hanging out at your house without the supervision of their own parents. Business relationships feel very different to people than your children's friendships do, and this straddles the line. But IANAL, and you should consult one about your potential liability in all areas of your business.
posted by decathecting at 4:18 PM on October 11, 2010