Not jumping for the bed?
October 4, 2010 9:19 PM Subscribe
You are a 22 year old guy who asks to stay over at a female friends' place where there is only one bed and no other furniture, and then decide to sleep on the floor after being offered a spot on the bed. What are you thinking?
So, mefites, I am asking you to imagine this:
You are a 22 year old Chinese guy who just graduated from university last semester. You are smart, handsome, not short of female admirers, but somewhat of a loner. You do not have a girlfriend, but have several female platonic friends.
One of your female friends is an American, several years older, who used to be your English teacher. When she was your teacher you had what all appearances suggested to be a strong crush (spending all of your free time with her, following her around, smiling at her). After she stopped being your teacher she made some romantic overtures and you declined. This was a few years ago.
You've kept in touch with her and recently have started to call her a few times a week or to chat online (you live in different cities). You've suggested traveling together in the near future.
Recently you were in her city, where you rent a room and return to about once a month as your company's headquarters are located there. You meet her for dinner, and after dinner (around 7:30 pm) ask her if you can stay over at her apartment since it is closer to your office, where you need to go the next day to pick something up. She says yes, you can, but that she only has one bed and nowhere else to sleep. She says you can come over then and see if it's ok, and you agree.
You both go to the apartment and you can see that besides the bed in the bedroom, the only other furniture is a small table and a few chairs, though there is a lot of floor space. You don't say anything, and the two of you talk for awhile.
She then goes to the bedroom to watch a TV show and invites you in there. You sit on her bed with your back against the headboard and play on your computer/watch the show. She leans back on the bed so that she is lying down and talking to you (neither of you is touching).
After awhile you note the time. "Oh, it's getting late", you say. "Where will I sleep?"
You get out of the bed and go into the living room as if searching for another place to sleep.
"Well, I don't really have anywhere else to sleep", she says, "except a yoga mat. But I don't mind if you sleep on the bed. I can sleep here, and you sleep there", she says, indicating the two sides of the double/queen-sized bed.
You seem to hesitate but then say, no, the floor is okay.
You sleep in your clothes, on the floor, on the yoga mat, covered by a sheet. A few more times, she says, " are you sure you don't want to sleep on the bed?", and you decline.
So, you are the guy in this scenario. What are you thinking throughout all of this?
(no, i have not written about this person on askmeta before)
So, mefites, I am asking you to imagine this:
You are a 22 year old Chinese guy who just graduated from university last semester. You are smart, handsome, not short of female admirers, but somewhat of a loner. You do not have a girlfriend, but have several female platonic friends.
One of your female friends is an American, several years older, who used to be your English teacher. When she was your teacher you had what all appearances suggested to be a strong crush (spending all of your free time with her, following her around, smiling at her). After she stopped being your teacher she made some romantic overtures and you declined. This was a few years ago.
You've kept in touch with her and recently have started to call her a few times a week or to chat online (you live in different cities). You've suggested traveling together in the near future.
Recently you were in her city, where you rent a room and return to about once a month as your company's headquarters are located there. You meet her for dinner, and after dinner (around 7:30 pm) ask her if you can stay over at her apartment since it is closer to your office, where you need to go the next day to pick something up. She says yes, you can, but that she only has one bed and nowhere else to sleep. She says you can come over then and see if it's ok, and you agree.
You both go to the apartment and you can see that besides the bed in the bedroom, the only other furniture is a small table and a few chairs, though there is a lot of floor space. You don't say anything, and the two of you talk for awhile.
She then goes to the bedroom to watch a TV show and invites you in there. You sit on her bed with your back against the headboard and play on your computer/watch the show. She leans back on the bed so that she is lying down and talking to you (neither of you is touching).
After awhile you note the time. "Oh, it's getting late", you say. "Where will I sleep?"
You get out of the bed and go into the living room as if searching for another place to sleep.
"Well, I don't really have anywhere else to sleep", she says, "except a yoga mat. But I don't mind if you sleep on the bed. I can sleep here, and you sleep there", she says, indicating the two sides of the double/queen-sized bed.
You seem to hesitate but then say, no, the floor is okay.
You sleep in your clothes, on the floor, on the yoga mat, covered by a sheet. A few more times, she says, " are you sure you don't want to sleep on the bed?", and you decline.
So, you are the guy in this scenario. What are you thinking throughout all of this?
(no, i have not written about this person on askmeta before)
For whatever reason, he doesn't want to be in bed asleep with you. Whether it's his morality, or lack of attraction, or whatever. And he does not want to give you the wrong idea about it.
posted by padraigin at 9:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by padraigin at 9:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking that I've never, ever been in this situation before and so even though by all appearances my former English teacher is all but holding a giant flashing neon sign above her head that says SEX OR SOMETHING LIKE IT, I can't be sure that she wants me to do it, or if she's just being polite. I know that sounds crazy, but bear with me: I recently went home with a girl (to her house) for the first time in a long time. I was a mess -- part of it was alcohol -- but a big part of it was that I hadn't done anything like it in so many years that I couldn't really be sure if I was doing it right. Up until the point that I was in her bed, I had the recurring thought that I should leave, that she didn't want me there. I even asked her a few times, to which she just mostly seemed confused that I was even asking such a thing.
My point is I don't think it's that he's not interested in you. I think that, as extreme as this case is, it's a case of a really nervous guy -- possibly with social anxiety, I don't know, but I know my own case of that contributes to my stunning stupidity in similar situations -- not quite trusting himself with the course of action he wants to take and knows he should take. I mean, obviously I could be way wrong and just projecting. But why would he do all this if wasn't into you at all?
posted by earlofrochester at 9:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
My point is I don't think it's that he's not interested in you. I think that, as extreme as this case is, it's a case of a really nervous guy -- possibly with social anxiety, I don't know, but I know my own case of that contributes to my stunning stupidity in similar situations -- not quite trusting himself with the course of action he wants to take and knows he should take. I mean, obviously I could be way wrong and just projecting. But why would he do all this if wasn't into you at all?
posted by earlofrochester at 9:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
We can only speculate. Are you looking for some cultural insight?
posted by k8t at 9:31 PM on October 4, 2010
posted by k8t at 9:31 PM on October 4, 2010
All along the woman indicated her view that they would be sleeping separately (even if in the same bed). If the idea is to avoid touching and I'm particularly respectful of someone's space (what if I accidentally roll over?), or definitely uninterested (what if ahe does?), I would choose the floor.
posted by salvia at 9:32 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 9:32 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: We can only speculate.
I'm interested in speculations.
I guess specifically as to why would he choose to stay when there was nowhere to sleep besides one bed?
posted by bearette at 9:34 PM on October 4, 2010
I'm interested in speculations.
I guess specifically as to why would he choose to stay when there was nowhere to sleep besides one bed?
posted by bearette at 9:34 PM on October 4, 2010
It doesn't seem that complicated to me. I see exactly two possibilities and only the woman in question knows the guy well enough to decide which of the two cases this falls into.
First possibility: You say the guy has several female platonic friends. He is thinking that he considers the woman in the question to be one of those female platonic friends and thus, when offered a spot in the bed, decides that discretion is the better part of valor and that a spot on the floor is less fraught with possible awkwardness and complication.
Second possibility: The guy is extremely shy and socially awkward. He does not understand how to read social cues very well or possibly at all, and thus could not tell whether or not the invitation to sleep in the bed was platonic in nature or a possible overture. Thus, he decided discretion was the better part of valor and that a spot on the floor was less fraught with possible awkwardness and complication. In this case he may actually be interested in more than a platonic friendship but his lack of social understanding means he is unlikely to make an overt first move and unlikely to respond to anything but an overt first move on the woman's part.
It should be pretty obvious whether the gentleman in question is shy enough and poor enough at reading social cues to distinguish between the two cases. But in either case he chose to sleep on the floor to avoid the possibility of an awkward moment. In the first case because he isn't interested, in the second case because he cannot tell whether the woman is interested regardless of his own interest or not.
posted by Justinian at 9:35 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
First possibility: You say the guy has several female platonic friends. He is thinking that he considers the woman in the question to be one of those female platonic friends and thus, when offered a spot in the bed, decides that discretion is the better part of valor and that a spot on the floor is less fraught with possible awkwardness and complication.
Second possibility: The guy is extremely shy and socially awkward. He does not understand how to read social cues very well or possibly at all, and thus could not tell whether or not the invitation to sleep in the bed was platonic in nature or a possible overture. Thus, he decided discretion was the better part of valor and that a spot on the floor was less fraught with possible awkwardness and complication. In this case he may actually be interested in more than a platonic friendship but his lack of social understanding means he is unlikely to make an overt first move and unlikely to respond to anything but an overt first move on the woman's part.
It should be pretty obvious whether the gentleman in question is shy enough and poor enough at reading social cues to distinguish between the two cases. But in either case he chose to sleep on the floor to avoid the possibility of an awkward moment. In the first case because he isn't interested, in the second case because he cannot tell whether the woman is interested regardless of his own interest or not.
posted by Justinian at 9:35 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking, "Just because I'm a guy doesn't mean I jump in the sack with someone just because they offer. I said no once before, and years later I was foolish enough to think she could be a mentor or friend, without bringing the sex offer back into it."
I'm also thinking, "This is awkward, and there's no polite way out of this. Wish I was back in my own room, sleeping on a bed. The floor is hard and I'm a little cold."
posted by Houstonian at 9:35 PM on October 4, 2010 [12 favorites]
I'm also thinking, "This is awkward, and there's no polite way out of this. Wish I was back in my own room, sleeping on a bed. The floor is hard and I'm a little cold."
posted by Houstonian at 9:35 PM on October 4, 2010 [12 favorites]
If I am the shy nerdy guy, let's assume I have a crush on you. Well, I am just too petrified of rejection to do anything. I am probably thinking that I can't quite read you, and maybe you want me in the bed, but then why are you making such a fuss about yoga mats? I want to make a move, but what if I've totally misread it and you just want to be friends? I'll be humiliated and I'll have to leave. So I will play it safe, assume you don't actually like me, and wait... until I get a less ambiguous signal. (Bear in mind I am shy and nerdy and not good at picking up hints. Even very obvious ones.)
Also: if I really am crushing on you, and I think that you don't feel the same way, a night in bed beside you would be torture. Better off on the floor.
posted by PercussivePaul at 9:35 PM on October 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
Also: if I really am crushing on you, and I think that you don't feel the same way, a night in bed beside you would be torture. Better off on the floor.
posted by PercussivePaul at 9:35 PM on October 4, 2010 [6 favorites]
There's a lot of valid interpretations, including the ones above. Another is that he was intrigued and excited but is a young guy with not a lot of experience with women, and he lost his nerve. Plenty of guys new to dating and sex get excited by an invitation like that and imagine doing this and that, but when presented with the opportunity are just not as at ease enough to be able to pull the trigger.
posted by ignignokt at 9:39 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ignignokt at 9:39 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
ignignokt: I think he's probably a little old for that to be the case. If he were 19 maybe, but 25 or 26?
posted by Justinian at 9:40 PM on October 4, 2010
posted by Justinian at 9:40 PM on October 4, 2010
I feel uncomfortable sharing a bed with someone I am not dating (possibly even with someone I am dating). Why I asked to stay at your place in the first place is a mystery of the ages.
posted by that girl at 9:40 PM on October 4, 2010
posted by that girl at 9:40 PM on October 4, 2010
Response by poster: I'm thinking, "Just because I'm a guy doesn't mean I jump in the sack with someone just because they offer. I said no once before, and years later I was foolish enough to think she could be a mentor or friend, without bringing the sex offer back into it."
I'm also thinking, "This is awkward, and there's no polite way out of this. Wish I was back in my own room, sleeping on a bed. The floor is hard and I'm a little cold."
Yikes, exactly what I was afraid of. However, he knew from the start it was either the bed or the floor. He could have gone home at any time (he has his own place in the city).
posted by bearette at 9:41 PM on October 4, 2010
I'm also thinking, "This is awkward, and there's no polite way out of this. Wish I was back in my own room, sleeping on a bed. The floor is hard and I'm a little cold."
Yikes, exactly what I was afraid of. However, he knew from the start it was either the bed or the floor. He could have gone home at any time (he has his own place in the city).
posted by bearette at 9:41 PM on October 4, 2010
So, you are the guy in this scenario. What are you thinking throughout all of this?
I'm thinking I'm a communist agent and this is a distraction. I'm thinking I'm gay, I'm thinking I have a GF whose pregnant. I'm thinking I'm shy. I'm thinking I didn't know what was being asked in the earlier overture. I'm thinking I knew exactly what was being asked in the earlier overture.
In short, you or I have no idea. Best that you ask.
As an older guy, I've noticed a few things. Maybe its more in these dumb "how to win a guy" books and articles, but there is a lot of emphasis on basically figuring out what the guy's feelings are by the actions he takes. I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it. He might be scared and really have feelings or not be interested.
Having been in this near exact situation before, the woman who got it right said "I'd prefer if you spent the night in my bed."
Not sure why American mating customs put the onus of the first move on the less aware party.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:42 PM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm thinking I'm a communist agent and this is a distraction. I'm thinking I'm gay, I'm thinking I have a GF whose pregnant. I'm thinking I'm shy. I'm thinking I didn't know what was being asked in the earlier overture. I'm thinking I knew exactly what was being asked in the earlier overture.
In short, you or I have no idea. Best that you ask.
As an older guy, I've noticed a few things. Maybe its more in these dumb "how to win a guy" books and articles, but there is a lot of emphasis on basically figuring out what the guy's feelings are by the actions he takes. I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it. He might be scared and really have feelings or not be interested.
Having been in this near exact situation before, the woman who got it right said "I'd prefer if you spent the night in my bed."
Not sure why American mating customs put the onus of the first move on the less aware party.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:42 PM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: ignignokt: I think he's probably a little old for that to be the case. If he were 19 maybe, but 25 or 26?
sorry to thread-sit, but he is 22. Which is kind of like 19 years old, in American years.
(so maybe this is all my fault! maybe I am immoral:(
posted by bearette at 9:48 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
sorry to thread-sit, but he is 22. Which is kind of like 19 years old, in American years.
(so maybe this is all my fault! maybe I am immoral:(
posted by bearette at 9:48 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: What am -I- thinking? I'm thinking that I learned long ago that no matter who it is I share a bed with, platonic friend, lover or yes, even a relative, that person is going to be unintentionally hardcore-spooned by me in my sleep in the middle of the night and will wake up with a boner in their back. Best to save everyone the unintended disrespect and embarrassment and sleep on the floor alone. Your friend may possibly have thought the same.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:49 PM on October 4, 2010 [41 favorites]
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:49 PM on October 4, 2010 [41 favorites]
sorry to thread-sit, but he is 22
Oh, sorry, I must have misinterpreted... I thought you said he was 22 and that was "a few years ago"!
posted by Justinian at 9:51 PM on October 4, 2010
Oh, sorry, I must have misinterpreted... I thought you said he was 22 and that was "a few years ago"!
posted by Justinian at 9:51 PM on October 4, 2010
Sharing a bed without prior understanding is fraught with problems; it's very close space, with a lot of implied context; and the two persons in bed will be either in an unconscious or less than lucid state of mind. I don't think it's unreasonable for the gentleman to refuse to get into such compromising situation (as men can be sensitive and thoughtful about life choices just as women; especially as involving as sex and relationship).
I suggest that if the woman's intention is romantic, steps can be taken before getting into bed?
posted by curiousZ at 9:58 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I suggest that if the woman's intention is romantic, steps can be taken before getting into bed?
posted by curiousZ at 9:58 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
What is he thinking? He's thinking: "I'm a level 22 paladin."
Some young guys just lack experience, and think hyper-chivalry is the "right" course of action, because they're simultaneously afraid of their masculinity and afraid of making a mistake.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:02 PM on October 4, 2010 [15 favorites]
Some young guys just lack experience, and think hyper-chivalry is the "right" course of action, because they're simultaneously afraid of their masculinity and afraid of making a mistake.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:02 PM on October 4, 2010 [15 favorites]
The big takeaway here is that if you are interested in a youngish guy, it's probably best to straight out ask if they want to get jiggy with it rather than a possibly ambiguous offer such as sharing a bed since there is nowhere else to sleep. Hell, I wish that were the case regardless of age but the older the people involved the more reasonable it is to expect at least a modicum of social understanding. It's one thing to be awkwardly clueless at 22, it's another thing at 42.
posted by Justinian at 10:11 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 10:11 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've done this. All kinds of reasons.
1) I was shy, wanted to do the right thing and be a gentleman. Wasn't sure if it was an invitation to share the bed, or share the love. If the former, the floor is the right choice. Because I didn't know, was young, not courageous enough to ask, the floor it was.
2) I was personally fine with non-sexy times in the bed, but was worried that the invitee was doing it out of obligation and secretly afraid of me wanting sexy times. So floor it was.
3) I was really really drunk, didn't want to do something I'd regret, or prefer to not regret sober. Also, I was feeling nauseous, and the floor was so blessedly cold.
4) We had Indian for dinner and I was pumping out more gas than Welsh coal seam. The idea of subjecting someone I liked or even loved to the foul miasma coming from my pants was horrifying. The prospect of holding it in all night and not sleeping - or worse waking up attached to the ceiling like Uncle Albert from Mary Poppins was equally unappealling, the floor it was.
5) I desperately wanted to sleep with the girl, but was terrified that when we got into bed and she felt immediately felt a hard-on nosing her thigh like an inquisitive beagle, she would lose respect for me and think I was an out of control, hormonal teenager! (I was! Also, I was a teenager that thought girls thought guys could/would get boners on command, and anything not on command was rude and unbecoming, like number 4. Ah, youth).
You know what the best thing to do when you don't know something about someone? Screw your courage to the goddamned sticking place and instead of dancing around it and flirting via notes on your dance card and the colour of the flowers in your corsage, you ask. . It's astonishingly effective. Try it.
posted by smoke at 10:12 PM on October 4, 2010 [18 favorites]
1) I was shy, wanted to do the right thing and be a gentleman. Wasn't sure if it was an invitation to share the bed, or share the love. If the former, the floor is the right choice. Because I didn't know, was young, not courageous enough to ask, the floor it was.
2) I was personally fine with non-sexy times in the bed, but was worried that the invitee was doing it out of obligation and secretly afraid of me wanting sexy times. So floor it was.
3) I was really really drunk, didn't want to do something I'd regret, or prefer to not regret sober. Also, I was feeling nauseous, and the floor was so blessedly cold.
4) We had Indian for dinner and I was pumping out more gas than Welsh coal seam. The idea of subjecting someone I liked or even loved to the foul miasma coming from my pants was horrifying. The prospect of holding it in all night and not sleeping - or worse waking up attached to the ceiling like Uncle Albert from Mary Poppins was equally unappealling, the floor it was.
5) I desperately wanted to sleep with the girl, but was terrified that when we got into bed and she felt immediately felt a hard-on nosing her thigh like an inquisitive beagle, she would lose respect for me and think I was an out of control, hormonal teenager! (I was! Also, I was a teenager that thought girls thought guys could/would get boners on command, and anything not on command was rude and unbecoming, like number 4. Ah, youth).
You know what the best thing to do when you don't know something about someone? Screw your courage to the goddamned sticking place and instead of dancing around it and flirting via notes on your dance card and the colour of the flowers in your corsage, you ask. . It's astonishingly effective. Try it.
posted by smoke at 10:12 PM on October 4, 2010 [18 favorites]
Some people aren't comfortable sharing a bed under either platonic-for-real or allegedly-platonic circumstances. Heck, some people aren't comfortable sharing a bed at all.
Her saying "no-where else to sleep" may not have been interpreted as "no couch, no cushions, no easy chair, nothin' but a bed and a cold hard floor."
Some people are exceedingly polite and will go along with a scenario until they reach a conundrum of politeness. Is it more polite for him to:
a) Change his plans and leave abruptly
b) Sleep in the bed while having inappropriate romantic feelings
c) Sleep in the bed despite being uncomfortable with her romantic feelings
d) Sleep in the bed utterly unsure as to her intentions
e) Sleep on the floor and risk perceived rudeness due to her unhappiness regarding scenarios b-c
f) Ahhhh! WTF! I'll just do the stereotypical gentleman thing, save everyone the trouble of interpretation, and sleep on the floor.
(Me? I'm totally comfortable sharing a bed with someone in various arrangements ranging from not-touching to snuggling. But this is apparently unusual.)
posted by desuetude at 10:15 PM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
Her saying "no-where else to sleep" may not have been interpreted as "no couch, no cushions, no easy chair, nothin' but a bed and a cold hard floor."
Some people are exceedingly polite and will go along with a scenario until they reach a conundrum of politeness. Is it more polite for him to:
a) Change his plans and leave abruptly
b) Sleep in the bed while having inappropriate romantic feelings
c) Sleep in the bed despite being uncomfortable with her romantic feelings
d) Sleep in the bed utterly unsure as to her intentions
e) Sleep on the floor and risk perceived rudeness due to her unhappiness regarding scenarios b-c
f) Ahhhh! WTF! I'll just do the stereotypical gentleman thing, save everyone the trouble of interpretation, and sleep on the floor.
(Me? I'm totally comfortable sharing a bed with someone in various arrangements ranging from not-touching to snuggling. But this is apparently unusual.)
posted by desuetude at 10:15 PM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'll speculate, if only because I uh bear somewhat of a resemblance to your mysterious young man (aside from being a year younger and not having an English teacher with a crush on him ALAS).
It's in part cultural and individual. I can make no assumptions of how he was raised or how Chinese-Americans as a general whole are raised but, oh good god, cast your Political Correctness aside and what you find are so many similarities that you begin to lose your own sense of individuality and, if you're the kind of person who thrives on that kind of thing and your major in English with a Focus on Creative Writing is the end to that means, then this kind of thing means the world to you and blah blah. Tangent.
Anyway, if you want assumptions then here's a ostentatious one: he doesn't understand body language and social cues in the same way that most folks do (folks generally meaning 'white'). It's not that he doesn't recognize them or know how he should act, it's that, at the fundamental, instinctive level, there's a difference between a child who's raised by parents who rarely show affection to one another, who don't say those little, romantic, super-cheesy and gross and what have you things to one another, who almost make a point of seeming platonic and disinterested. These cues should prompt emotional responses that are connected to the things we have seen and experienced. These cues override that neurotic rationality and make us just 'go for it', even if 'it' doesn't really mean anything more than a shared bed.
And then we have the compounding factor of the high level of neuroses in Chinese-Americans. It doesn't matter how socially well-adjusted he is or how many girls he has as platonic ladyfriends and admirers, that neurosis will bite him in the butt. Those gut instincts I'm talking about, you can't rationalize them, no matter how hard you try. You end up going down some dark, decrepit logical alley that removes you so far from the situation that those gut feelings that I'm talking about, those unvoiced desires to show some affection that you can never seem to articulate because you think the problem is articulation even though it's actually just getting the words out in the first place, start getting overridden by stupid stuff like 'oh man, what does she want from me' and 'I don't want to screw up' and soon, even though you're thinking that her hair looks nice or that maybe you would like to hang out with her more, you purse your bottom lip a little and you kind of mumble a few words that have just the barest semblance of sense and you kind of brush your nose and she thinks you're not really interested and you're just being nice to her.
So, what is your young Chinese-American thinking? Probably 'if I get in that bed, there will be action, does she want action from me? Should I engage in said actions? I don't know if she wants it. What if I totally accidentally get my penis somewhere weird, like in her ear or something. Tee hee. She probably doesn't want it. What if she does? Oh god, I need to stop thinking and just start doing. Maybe if I just climb in or something. And that bed looks really really comfortable. This yoga mat's nice though. She's so nice, man, and I'm just a jerk. This isn't good for my back either, especially that bottom right side. Maybe I should get into bed. Nah. It's too late. It's too late. It's tooooo laaaaaate. Now it'll just be awkward. Maybe I can recover. How would Steve handle this? He'd probably get up in the bed, say a suave thing or two and everything would be good. Hell, he'd probably get some action. God. This is kind of embarrassing. This is turning into one of Those Things. Oh god. I'm making this so weird. Ahhhhhh. I think I'm just going to try to go to sleep and everything will be better in the morning or something. I guess I'm just going to pretend I'm the hero of Bleach and try to lull myself to sleep. GETSUGAAAA TENSHOUUUU"
Or, at least, that would probably be what I would be thinking in that situation, give or take a few things. I don't know about your erstwhile young man but, who knows, maybe he's committed to someone. Because if he isn't, he's just being dumb again and he can't help it.
posted by dubusadus at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2010 [8 favorites]
It's in part cultural and individual. I can make no assumptions of how he was raised or how Chinese-Americans as a general whole are raised but, oh good god, cast your Political Correctness aside and what you find are so many similarities that you begin to lose your own sense of individuality and, if you're the kind of person who thrives on that kind of thing and your major in English with a Focus on Creative Writing is the end to that means, then this kind of thing means the world to you and blah blah. Tangent.
Anyway, if you want assumptions then here's a ostentatious one: he doesn't understand body language and social cues in the same way that most folks do (folks generally meaning 'white'). It's not that he doesn't recognize them or know how he should act, it's that, at the fundamental, instinctive level, there's a difference between a child who's raised by parents who rarely show affection to one another, who don't say those little, romantic, super-cheesy and gross and what have you things to one another, who almost make a point of seeming platonic and disinterested. These cues should prompt emotional responses that are connected to the things we have seen and experienced. These cues override that neurotic rationality and make us just 'go for it', even if 'it' doesn't really mean anything more than a shared bed.
And then we have the compounding factor of the high level of neuroses in Chinese-Americans. It doesn't matter how socially well-adjusted he is or how many girls he has as platonic ladyfriends and admirers, that neurosis will bite him in the butt. Those gut instincts I'm talking about, you can't rationalize them, no matter how hard you try. You end up going down some dark, decrepit logical alley that removes you so far from the situation that those gut feelings that I'm talking about, those unvoiced desires to show some affection that you can never seem to articulate because you think the problem is articulation even though it's actually just getting the words out in the first place, start getting overridden by stupid stuff like 'oh man, what does she want from me' and 'I don't want to screw up' and soon, even though you're thinking that her hair looks nice or that maybe you would like to hang out with her more, you purse your bottom lip a little and you kind of mumble a few words that have just the barest semblance of sense and you kind of brush your nose and she thinks you're not really interested and you're just being nice to her.
So, what is your young Chinese-American thinking? Probably 'if I get in that bed, there will be action, does she want action from me? Should I engage in said actions? I don't know if she wants it. What if I totally accidentally get my penis somewhere weird, like in her ear or something. Tee hee. She probably doesn't want it. What if she does? Oh god, I need to stop thinking and just start doing. Maybe if I just climb in or something. And that bed looks really really comfortable. This yoga mat's nice though. She's so nice, man, and I'm just a jerk. This isn't good for my back either, especially that bottom right side. Maybe I should get into bed. Nah. It's too late. It's too late. It's tooooo laaaaaate. Now it'll just be awkward. Maybe I can recover. How would Steve handle this? He'd probably get up in the bed, say a suave thing or two and everything would be good. Hell, he'd probably get some action. God. This is kind of embarrassing. This is turning into one of Those Things. Oh god. I'm making this so weird. Ahhhhhh. I think I'm just going to try to go to sleep and everything will be better in the morning or something. I guess I'm just going to pretend I'm the hero of Bleach and try to lull myself to sleep. GETSUGAAAA TENSHOUUUU"
Or, at least, that would probably be what I would be thinking in that situation, give or take a few things. I don't know about your erstwhile young man but, who knows, maybe he's committed to someone. Because if he isn't, he's just being dumb again and he can't help it.
posted by dubusadus at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2010 [8 favorites]
I've projectile-vomited in my sleep.
Maybe he has too.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Maybe he has too.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
why would he choose to stay when there was nowhere to sleep besides one bed?
Maybe when he originally agreed, he was assuming that there would be an armchair, couch, floor pillows, something that he could sleep on. Once you ask to sleep at someone's house, arrive at said house, and then spend time watching tv and such with them, there's no polite way to say "Ooook, well, since there's only one bed, I guess I'll just be leaving."
posted by kro at 10:23 PM on October 4, 2010
Maybe when he originally agreed, he was assuming that there would be an armchair, couch, floor pillows, something that he could sleep on. Once you ask to sleep at someone's house, arrive at said house, and then spend time watching tv and such with them, there's no polite way to say "Ooook, well, since there's only one bed, I guess I'll just be leaving."
posted by kro at 10:23 PM on October 4, 2010
S'funny: I thought the question was written by the guy. After all, he might be agonizing-- over whether he should have seized the day, over how he can't jump straight from flirting to sex, over whether you're just being polite in offering the bed and expect him to decline, over any number of possiblilities.
But now, and I don't think I'm only speaking for myself, I would like to know what would've happened if he'd gotten in. C'mon! As a guy, I'd like to know more about that type scenario myself. I understand if you don't want to say yet for fear it'll influence the responses... but please tell us eventually. I'll wait.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 10:27 PM on October 4, 2010
But now, and I don't think I'm only speaking for myself, I would like to know what would've happened if he'd gotten in. C'mon! As a guy, I'd like to know more about that type scenario myself. I understand if you don't want to say yet for fear it'll influence the responses... but please tell us eventually. I'll wait.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 10:27 PM on October 4, 2010
Occam's razor version: the guy genuinely did need to pick something up at the office the next morning. Staying over was a big favour & he didn't want to put the woman out any further. Also, plenty of people can sleep just fine on the floor, and he is one of those people.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
ignignokt: I think he's probably a little old for that to be the case. If he were 19 maybe, but 25 or 26?
I've done that at 25. I was in a similar position several times. Once, a long-time platonic friend/possibility was out at a club with me (I was living downtown in Vancouver at the time) when she was living at her parents' place in Burnaby. She asked to stay over at my place, which wasn't a poor request at the time other than the fact that she could easily have driven home (she drove us back to my place). I honestly didn't know whether she was doing it to speed things along or just not interested in heading home. These two positions are TOTALLY UNRELATED and very difficult to navigate. She'd never shown interest in me in the past.
Well, what the fuck am I supposed to do then. Guys are in a tough spot. We hadn't dated, kissed or had any physical contact in the past. But, I liked her. So, do I make a move? The opportunity presented itself, in a way. But, I wasnt' sure and it could have been somewhat embarassing at best or possibly friendship-killing at worst (even if I had actually had sex with her). So, she slept on the couch.
I'm married now, and still friends with her. Perhaps I'll ask her directly what she intended.
Another, more relatable example was another friend who used to come to town from Victoria and stay with me. In the past we'd had a very weird relationship - we'd both previously drunkenly kissed each other at a party when both of us were in different relationships. We were very close - she'd sleep in the bed and we'd basically spoon each other. I was completely in love with her at the time. She, on the other hand, said she 'loved me like a brother' despite doing stuff like changing in front of me. I never made a move there either, also out of fear of (what I figured) was certain rejection and moving her further away from me.
See, as guys we're genetically programmed to want to fuck most everything that moves. We don't because we're also social animals that know that fucking everything that moves comes with consequences. Plus, we ultimately tend to value personal relationships more than sex (despite what you may have read).
I think he's thinking: UNCOMFORTABLE.
As guys we're painfully aware of being potrayed like total dicks that just want to have sex. It's just not comfortable to be put in a situation where the girl might just want to have a perfectly nice evening laying in bed together. I've learned that it's not a good idea. At the very best you get little sleep and feel uncomfortable. Worse is a scorching case of blue balls and no sleep. Worst is ruining a friendship, either by doing something or by not doing something. It's a lose-lose.
Get a futon.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:33 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've done that at 25. I was in a similar position several times. Once, a long-time platonic friend/possibility was out at a club with me (I was living downtown in Vancouver at the time) when she was living at her parents' place in Burnaby. She asked to stay over at my place, which wasn't a poor request at the time other than the fact that she could easily have driven home (she drove us back to my place). I honestly didn't know whether she was doing it to speed things along or just not interested in heading home. These two positions are TOTALLY UNRELATED and very difficult to navigate. She'd never shown interest in me in the past.
Well, what the fuck am I supposed to do then. Guys are in a tough spot. We hadn't dated, kissed or had any physical contact in the past. But, I liked her. So, do I make a move? The opportunity presented itself, in a way. But, I wasnt' sure and it could have been somewhat embarassing at best or possibly friendship-killing at worst (even if I had actually had sex with her). So, she slept on the couch.
I'm married now, and still friends with her. Perhaps I'll ask her directly what she intended.
Another, more relatable example was another friend who used to come to town from Victoria and stay with me. In the past we'd had a very weird relationship - we'd both previously drunkenly kissed each other at a party when both of us were in different relationships. We were very close - she'd sleep in the bed and we'd basically spoon each other. I was completely in love with her at the time. She, on the other hand, said she 'loved me like a brother' despite doing stuff like changing in front of me. I never made a move there either, also out of fear of (what I figured) was certain rejection and moving her further away from me.
See, as guys we're genetically programmed to want to fuck most everything that moves. We don't because we're also social animals that know that fucking everything that moves comes with consequences. Plus, we ultimately tend to value personal relationships more than sex (despite what you may have read).
I think he's thinking: UNCOMFORTABLE.
As guys we're painfully aware of being potrayed like total dicks that just want to have sex. It's just not comfortable to be put in a situation where the girl might just want to have a perfectly nice evening laying in bed together. I've learned that it's not a good idea. At the very best you get little sleep and feel uncomfortable. Worse is a scorching case of blue balls and no sleep. Worst is ruining a friendship, either by doing something or by not doing something. It's a lose-lose.
Get a futon.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:33 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
My guess is he was thinking "Oh, I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable, I'll sleep on the floor"
My guess is that he was just waiting for a more obvious signal -- and maybe too nervous to send one himself.
posted by delmoi at 10:38 PM on October 4, 2010
For whatever reason, he doesn't want to be in bed asleep with you. Whether it's his morality, or lack of attraction, or whatever. And he does not want to give you the wrong idea about it.I don't think that's accurate at all. A guy could very much want to sleep in the same bed as her but still not do it. Either because he's missing signals or, because he wasn't sure about it, or whatever. Or maybe he was thinking "Oh, I really wanted to make out, but she's making it sound like we're just going to go to sleep. That would be kind of awkward so I'll sleep on the floor"
I'm also thinking, "This is awkward, and there's no polite way out of this. Wish I was back in my own room, sleeping on a bed. The floor is hard and I'm a little cold."Which is reasonable except she told him there was no where else to sleep before he came over, and he could have left at any time. Read this paragraph again:
Recently you were in her city, where you rent a room and return to about once a month as your company's headquarters are located there. You meet her for dinner, and after dinner (around 7:30 pm) ask her if you can stay over at her apartment since it is closer to your office, where you need to go the next day to pick something up. She says yes, you can, but that she only has one bed and nowhere else to sleep. She says you can come over then and see if it's ok, and you agree.He asked her if he could stay, not the other way around. He knew there was only one bed when he went over.
Her saying "no-where else to sleep" may not have been interpreted as "no couch, no cushions, no easy chair, nothin' but a bed and a cold hard floor."Again: "She says you can come over then and see if it's ok, and you agree." If he wanted to leave, he had tons of opportunity.
My guess is that he was just waiting for a more obvious signal -- and maybe too nervous to send one himself.
posted by delmoi at 10:38 PM on October 4, 2010
My guess is that he was just waiting for a more obvious signal -- and maybe too nervous to send one himself.
I would agree with this. I'll bet he was not really picking up on your perhaps too-subtle advances and decided that the floor was the easiest option.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:42 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would agree with this. I'll bet he was not really picking up on your perhaps too-subtle advances and decided that the floor was the easiest option.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:42 PM on October 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
There seems to be an implication that it was a platonic offer, but then you talk about previous crushes and offers of romance. Did you really give the guy as few clues as to the possibilities of what would happen if he shared the bed as you've given us here? Man, I would have gone for the floor too.
posted by eye of newt at 10:53 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by eye of newt at 10:53 PM on October 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
You would be surprised how slow some guys are at recognizing female admiration. If I had to chance a guess at it, I would say that he's got a lot of respect for women, and doesn't want to make an assumption or mess up a good thing. I doubt he would make a pass, anyway. I bet he just didn't want to inconvenience you by taking up half of the bed.
Looking back, I think I missed a lot of chances with girls simply because I didn't want to be disrespectful of them. The Mrs. is still annoyed that I was not able to take a hint. It turns out she knew how to set up her computer by herself anyway.
posted by Gilbert at 11:07 PM on October 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Looking back, I think I missed a lot of chances with girls simply because I didn't want to be disrespectful of them. The Mrs. is still annoyed that I was not able to take a hint. It turns out she knew how to set up her computer by herself anyway.
posted by Gilbert at 11:07 PM on October 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Did you really give the guy as few clues as to the possibilities of what would happen if he shared the bed as you've given us here?
Yes, I guess I did. I was not explicit at all.
My thinking went like this: oh, he is asking to stay over at my place when it's only 7:30/8pm, he has his own place, and I told him that I only have one bed and nothing else to sleep on. He must be at least open to the possibility of something physical happening.
Then, when we got to my place: it's very obvious that aside from the bed, there's just the floor. It's a small place and you can see everything laid out. At that point he could have easily said, "Oh, I see there's not really an extra place to sleep; I don't want to inconvenience you." or, "I realized that I left something at my apartment that I need for work tomorrow.", etc. But, for the 3 hours we hung out/talked, he said nothing like that, and made no comments/asked no questions about sleeping arrangements.
There's also the possibility that he was not interested at all, and just needed a place to sleep, etc. But again, he had his own place and it was early enough that the distance should not have been a big deal; he sleeps at his own place whenever he is in town and needs to go into the office.
posted by bearette at 11:18 PM on October 4, 2010
Yes, I guess I did. I was not explicit at all.
My thinking went like this: oh, he is asking to stay over at my place when it's only 7:30/8pm, he has his own place, and I told him that I only have one bed and nothing else to sleep on. He must be at least open to the possibility of something physical happening.
Then, when we got to my place: it's very obvious that aside from the bed, there's just the floor. It's a small place and you can see everything laid out. At that point he could have easily said, "Oh, I see there's not really an extra place to sleep; I don't want to inconvenience you." or, "I realized that I left something at my apartment that I need for work tomorrow.", etc. But, for the 3 hours we hung out/talked, he said nothing like that, and made no comments/asked no questions about sleeping arrangements.
There's also the possibility that he was not interested at all, and just needed a place to sleep, etc. But again, he had his own place and it was early enough that the distance should not have been a big deal; he sleeps at his own place whenever he is in town and needs to go into the office.
posted by bearette at 11:18 PM on October 4, 2010
My guess is that during the TV watching/computer time he was waiting for some signal from you that this was supposed to be an intimate encounter. You sat there platonic and separated, so he didn't get the "go ahead" signals from you. He took things at face value and decided that it would be better for you if he took the floor.
The message you were giving off seemed to have been "I'm over here, you'll be over there" even if you were just trying to make him feel comfortable. I think he was waiting for you to make a move and you were waiting for him to do the same.
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
The message you were giving off seemed to have been "I'm over here, you'll be over there" even if you were just trying to make him feel comfortable. I think he was waiting for you to make a move and you were waiting for him to do the same.
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:30 PM on October 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
You do both speak English, right?
Next time, if you want something, Use Your Words.
posted by blueberry at 11:54 PM on October 4, 2010 [15 favorites]
Next time, if you want something, Use Your Words.
posted by blueberry at 11:54 PM on October 4, 2010 [15 favorites]
This sounds like the end of an evening with a woman I had been spending time with about 9 years ago, where I tried to err way on the side of being safe. Fortunately, she did the right thing and clearly communicated with me. Our fifth wedding anniversary is this month.
posted by anildash at 12:41 AM on October 5, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by anildash at 12:41 AM on October 5, 2010 [6 favorites]
I did this once in university. Without getting into details, it was because I was gay but hadn't quite admitted it to myself or others.
posted by yellowbinder at 1:08 AM on October 5, 2010
posted by yellowbinder at 1:08 AM on October 5, 2010
Best answer: I needed to get to office really early the next morning, earlier than normal. I usually stay in my own place when I am in town, but the dishwasher broke, and the bus services are down, and a lot of small miscellaneous reasons that won't make it convenient for me. I usually can manage the inconvenience pretty much fine, but I know of a friend who stays close to office, and for many small miscellaneous reasons, will make it so much easier to arrive at office earlier tomorrow.
I used to have a small crush on her (and consequently made a fool of myself by following her around -- hey, I was younger! and more naive!), but then soon decided that we weren't going to work out as a couple. I still like her company though, and though I would never say no to sexyfuntimes, I would rather keep this relationship platonic to avoid ensuing awkwardness and complications. I feel comfortable around her enough to ask for a small favour, like sleep over at her place, so I can save myself the trouble tomorrow. I have no problems sleeping on the floor because she doesn't have a guest room or extra bed -- bed, floor, it's all the same.
But then she asks me whether I wanted to share her bed. Um, slightly awkward. When I was younger and a student, my friends (female and males alike) and I used to share beds to save on costs while traveling. But I'm not that broke now, and I am much older. Anyway, she is already doing me a big favour by letting me stay over, so I don't want to take advantage of her kindness anymore than I have to. It might be different if she was flirting and touching with me all night, in which case I might think that the offer of bed is a prelude to something more, but I'll assume she's making the offer as a good friend BECAUSE I AM A DECENT GUY AND I DON'T VIEW EVERYTHING A WOMAN SAYS AS A POTENTIAL COME-ON.
--
As a rather friendly female myself, I'm grateful for guys like this, because I have had more than my fair share of guys who interpret my completely friendly and platonic gestures as a come-on.
posted by moiraine at 1:09 AM on October 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
I used to have a small crush on her (and consequently made a fool of myself by following her around -- hey, I was younger! and more naive!), but then soon decided that we weren't going to work out as a couple. I still like her company though, and though I would never say no to sexyfuntimes, I would rather keep this relationship platonic to avoid ensuing awkwardness and complications. I feel comfortable around her enough to ask for a small favour, like sleep over at her place, so I can save myself the trouble tomorrow. I have no problems sleeping on the floor because she doesn't have a guest room or extra bed -- bed, floor, it's all the same.
But then she asks me whether I wanted to share her bed. Um, slightly awkward. When I was younger and a student, my friends (female and males alike) and I used to share beds to save on costs while traveling. But I'm not that broke now, and I am much older. Anyway, she is already doing me a big favour by letting me stay over, so I don't want to take advantage of her kindness anymore than I have to. It might be different if she was flirting and touching with me all night, in which case I might think that the offer of bed is a prelude to something more, but I'll assume she's making the offer as a good friend BECAUSE I AM A DECENT GUY AND I DON'T VIEW EVERYTHING A WOMAN SAYS AS A POTENTIAL COME-ON.
--
As a rather friendly female myself, I'm grateful for guys like this, because I have had more than my fair share of guys who interpret my completely friendly and platonic gestures as a come-on.
posted by moiraine at 1:09 AM on October 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Regardless of whether or not he's interested in you, he was ultimately thinking "this is not how I want this to go down."
Maybe he's worried about your friendship. Or uncomfortable imposing on you and your hostessy graciousness - it sounds like you two consistently have had an uneven power dynamic and that could be driving some insecurity about what to do about his desire (or lack of desire). Or maybe this isn't his idea of romance. Or maybe he had gas.
Also, where's the sexy-sexy vibe here?...based on what you said, I'm not feeling like there was one...was there? For me personally, I don't really want to share a non-platonic night in bed with someone unless we're clearly vibing off each other. And I don't want to crawl into that bed not really knowing, because there's few things more awkward than sharing a bed with one horny person and the other with a furrowed brow. I also know that regardless which one of those people I am (and I could be both!) I'm probably not going to get much sleep. Which means I'll be even more fail with you in the morning. Which will take me a whole 'nother day (and possibly years) to recover from. Better to cash in the chips and be able to play again tomorrow, after a decent night's rest. People put too much stock in the night anyway. How was the morning? Morning invites into bed are much less ambiguous. But whatever you do, don't be looking for the answer to "What are we doing?" or "Are we having a relationship?" in the question "Do you want to share a bed?" It should be the other way around.
posted by iamkimiam at 1:53 AM on October 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
Maybe he's worried about your friendship. Or uncomfortable imposing on you and your hostessy graciousness - it sounds like you two consistently have had an uneven power dynamic and that could be driving some insecurity about what to do about his desire (or lack of desire). Or maybe this isn't his idea of romance. Or maybe he had gas.
Also, where's the sexy-sexy vibe here?...based on what you said, I'm not feeling like there was one...was there? For me personally, I don't really want to share a non-platonic night in bed with someone unless we're clearly vibing off each other. And I don't want to crawl into that bed not really knowing, because there's few things more awkward than sharing a bed with one horny person and the other with a furrowed brow. I also know that regardless which one of those people I am (and I could be both!) I'm probably not going to get much sleep. Which means I'll be even more fail with you in the morning. Which will take me a whole 'nother day (and possibly years) to recover from. Better to cash in the chips and be able to play again tomorrow, after a decent night's rest. People put too much stock in the night anyway. How was the morning? Morning invites into bed are much less ambiguous. But whatever you do, don't be looking for the answer to "What are we doing?" or "Are we having a relationship?" in the question "Do you want to share a bed?" It should be the other way around.
posted by iamkimiam at 1:53 AM on October 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
dubusadus: "...the high level of neuroses in Chinese-Americans"
Where are you getting this from? Is there data or a citation?
posted by surenoproblem at 4:44 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Where are you getting this from? Is there data or a citation?
posted by surenoproblem at 4:44 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Someone up above said "next time, use your words" or something like that. If no-one else has, may I recommend doing that right now if at all possible. It sounds like you have a friendship and this seems like one of those things that can throw a monkey wrench into a friendship. That's a sadness that may well be avoidable if you talk to him/her soon.
posted by Ahab at 4:59 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ahab at 4:59 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
You would be surprised how slow some guys are at recognizing female admiration. If I had to chance a guess at it, I would say that he's got a lot of respect for women, and doesn't want to make an assumption or mess up a good thing. I doubt he would make a pass, anyway. I bet he just didn't want to inconvenience you by taking up half of the bed.
Looking back, I think I missed a lot of chances with girls simply because I didn't want to be disrespectful of them.
This. Young men are taught that NO MEANS NO, which is a good thing, but the nicer ones err on the side of caution. On the one hand, less societally-sanctioned date rape, but on the other, flirtation can be a tricky business and prone to causing disappointment in their oversubtle potential partners.
For what its worth, the last night of my youthful innocence, I was essentially the guy in the OP's story. There were moments where I thought I was being given the go-ahead, but I did not want to transgress without being certain. I also settled down on the floor for a long winter's nap. It was only when the young woman in question abandoned her bed and joined me there that I was certain.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:15 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Looking back, I think I missed a lot of chances with girls simply because I didn't want to be disrespectful of them.
This. Young men are taught that NO MEANS NO, which is a good thing, but the nicer ones err on the side of caution. On the one hand, less societally-sanctioned date rape, but on the other, flirtation can be a tricky business and prone to causing disappointment in their oversubtle potential partners.
For what its worth, the last night of my youthful innocence, I was essentially the guy in the OP's story. There were moments where I thought I was being given the go-ahead, but I did not want to transgress without being certain. I also settled down on the floor for a long winter's nap. It was only when the young woman in question abandoned her bed and joined me there that I was certain.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:15 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
What if he's just a respectful guest mooching some space on your floor because he's in a strange country, and he doesn't want to make you uncomfortable or inconvenienced in the least because you're such a gracious host?
Sometimes all that's there is what meets the eye.
posted by j1950 at 6:53 AM on October 5, 2010
Sometimes all that's there is what meets the eye.
posted by j1950 at 6:53 AM on October 5, 2010
am I missing something about maybe he's gay?
posted by sully75 at 7:07 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by sully75 at 7:07 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
My story is much like anildash's story, except I was the female in this situation. I used my words. Or, it was more like I had to use my words, a flip chart and a pointer, some semaphore flags, and various diagrams drawn on a napkin. I was on the verge of busting out the Powerpoint when he finally "got" it. He's a shy guy who respects women. We'll celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary next June.
posted by jeanmari at 7:23 AM on October 5, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by jeanmari at 7:23 AM on October 5, 2010 [8 favorites]
The teacher once made an overture which the former student declined. He sleeps on the floor because he wants to make sure that his boundaries are firmly and obviously in place.
He's interested in friendship only.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 7:58 AM on October 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
He's interested in friendship only.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 7:58 AM on October 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: The way you ask the question is peculiar. With the exception of the phrase "as if searching for another place to sleep" even here in AskMe you're being ambiguous about what you want from this guy. Why don't you say anywhere in the question what you want? Why do you tell the story in the third person? If you are uncomfortable expressing your wants with us, how much more so must you have been with him?
Instead of "I don't mind if you sleep on the bed," why not say, "How about the bed?" Still ambiguous, but more inviting.
I think he correctly read an unwillingness on your part which you want to locate in him.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:30 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Instead of "I don't mind if you sleep on the bed," why not say, "How about the bed?" Still ambiguous, but more inviting.
I think he correctly read an unwillingness on your part which you want to locate in him.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:30 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm thinking that the world would be so much easier if people would be honest and straightforward about their intentions and desires instead of expecting people to pick up on subtle hints that may or may not be obvious to me, and that in today's world it's better to be safe and not make assumptions than to make an incorrect assumption.
posted by jferg at 9:31 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by jferg at 9:31 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is the more chaste and slightly less sitar-infused version of "Norwegian Wood". It's as least as ambiguous.
posted by holgate at 9:33 AM on October 5, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by holgate at 9:33 AM on October 5, 2010 [7 favorites]
Since he has politely declined his teacher before, I'm thinking he sees her as a mentor, someone with whom he has much in common but to whom he is not attracted.
posted by misha at 10:23 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by misha at 10:23 AM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Even if he was (is) interested, sexually or emotionally in you, you were pretty plain in saying, "You can sleep here and I can sleep here." I would interpret that as you politely offering your bed, but explicitly precluding the possibility of sex in which case, even if I was uncertain what you meant, I wouldn't want to press the issue, possibly embarrassing myself and straining the friendship.
posted by cmoj at 12:10 PM on October 5, 2010
posted by cmoj at 12:10 PM on October 5, 2010
22 year old me would have done the same thing and been frustrated after. Unless I got the right words or appropriate body language I wouldn't have done anything.
33 year old me would have done the same thing and been fine with it. I'm not interested in women who don't communicate sexual interest and/or are unable to risk a tiny part of their ego in the process.
posted by MillMan at 2:29 PM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
33 year old me would have done the same thing and been fine with it. I'm not interested in women who don't communicate sexual interest and/or are unable to risk a tiny part of their ego in the process.
posted by MillMan at 2:29 PM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
dubusadus: "...the high level of neuroses in Chinese-Americans"
Where are you getting this from? Is there data or a citation?
I'm Chinese-American. I agree with dubusadus' statement. He indicated that he's also Chinese-American.
So... as you know... a sample size of 2 is not representative, but Political Correctness be damned-- I'm completely sure that if you went out and asked all your Chinese-American buddies, they would all agree.
The Chinese are a neurotic bunch in general, and this is ESPECIALLY the case with American-born people raised by Chinese-immigrant parents.
posted by demagogue at 2:54 PM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Where are you getting this from? Is there data or a citation?
I'm Chinese-American. I agree with dubusadus' statement. He indicated that he's also Chinese-American.
So... as you know... a sample size of 2 is not representative, but Political Correctness be damned-- I'm completely sure that if you went out and asked all your Chinese-American buddies, they would all agree.
The Chinese are a neurotic bunch in general, and this is ESPECIALLY the case with American-born people raised by Chinese-immigrant parents.
posted by demagogue at 2:54 PM on October 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The way you ask the question is peculiar. With the exception of the phrase "as if searching for another place to sleep" even here in AskMe you're being ambiguous about what you want from this guy. Why don't you say anywhere in the question what you want? Why do you tell the story in the third person? If you are uncomfortable expressing your wants with us, how much more so must you have been with him?
Instead of "I don't mind if you sleep on the bed," why not say, "How about the bed?" Still ambiguous, but more inviting.
I think he correctly read an unwillingness on your part which you want to locate in him.
This is an excellent answer. Really points out some things about my psyche/personality which I honestly was not that conscious of. One of my faults is that I am too passive in life and often afraid to ask for what I want. I hadn't realized how much of that I was bringing to the situation.
You're right, I never said what I want, and I think that's an unwillingness on my part to admit it. I want to be validated, desired....without really specifically asking. It wasn't necessarily sex that I was after. So it's not really fair to place the onus of action on him, though my point in asking this question was to receive some insight into what might have been going on in his mind...it wasn't to say, "Why wouldn't he leap at the chance to sleep in bed with me?!", though I realize it may have come across like that.
(a part of my unwillingness to be direct was the desire to not make him uncomfortable.)
By the way, this is probably my fault for being unclear, but he is not Chinese-American. He's a Chinese national, never been out of the country, and we both live in China.
posted by bearette at 8:54 PM on October 5, 2010
Instead of "I don't mind if you sleep on the bed," why not say, "How about the bed?" Still ambiguous, but more inviting.
I think he correctly read an unwillingness on your part which you want to locate in him.
This is an excellent answer. Really points out some things about my psyche/personality which I honestly was not that conscious of. One of my faults is that I am too passive in life and often afraid to ask for what I want. I hadn't realized how much of that I was bringing to the situation.
You're right, I never said what I want, and I think that's an unwillingness on my part to admit it. I want to be validated, desired....without really specifically asking. It wasn't necessarily sex that I was after. So it's not really fair to place the onus of action on him, though my point in asking this question was to receive some insight into what might have been going on in his mind...it wasn't to say, "Why wouldn't he leap at the chance to sleep in bed with me?!", though I realize it may have come across like that.
(a part of my unwillingness to be direct was the desire to not make him uncomfortable.)
By the way, this is probably my fault for being unclear, but he is not Chinese-American. He's a Chinese national, never been out of the country, and we both live in China.
posted by bearette at 8:54 PM on October 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
"Well, I don't really have anywhere else to sleep", she says, "except a yoga mat. But I don't mind if you sleep on the bed. I can sleep here, and you sleep there", she says, indicating the two sides of the double/queen-sized bed.
is absolutely not the same thing as this:
You're welcome to share the bed with me.
which is also not the same thing as this:
I am inviting you to have sex with me.
As such, the dude probably sensed that sharing the bed was not an ideal situation and opted for the floor rather than make his hostess even remotely uncomfortable. I don't know what part, bearette, you play in this scenario, but I think the dude did the right thing.
posted by phunniemee at 9:29 PM on October 4, 2010 [25 favorites]