Get me out of here
September 26, 2010 10:16 PM Subscribe
Moving woes, including, but not limited to, a place I don't want to live, a strong-armed arrangement, and money I don't have.
I am living with my boyfriend in a house his mother bought...well, soon anyway. I currently live an hour away from my school and a part time job I just got, which means I am commuting most of the week, paying tolls, etc to go to class and to get to my minimum wage job. The reason we have not yet moved is because the house is a mess.
I don't want to live here. The neighborhood feels unsafe, the house is shabby, and I just got back from painting all by lonesome for 10 hours today (just because my boyfriend can live in squalor doesn't mean I can.)
This arrangement was supposed to save us money. It hasn't, and won't. This arrangement was not supposed to be a ginormous headache that would have me commute to school for a month (!) and now work. We don't even have working hot water right now, or a fridge.
I feel bitter and resentful. Perhaps some of that is just because of how exhausted I am (I had an 8 hour shift yesterday, on top of working on the house...I literally eat once a day and get going the minute I wake up and don't stop until my shower at night.) I don't want to feel this way, so I was wondering if the hive mind could help me reframe this. Thank you!
P.S. Like it or not, unless I break up with my boyfriend, I will be living here for the next two years.
I am living with my boyfriend in a house his mother bought...well, soon anyway. I currently live an hour away from my school and a part time job I just got, which means I am commuting most of the week, paying tolls, etc to go to class and to get to my minimum wage job. The reason we have not yet moved is because the house is a mess.
I don't want to live here. The neighborhood feels unsafe, the house is shabby, and I just got back from painting all by lonesome for 10 hours today (just because my boyfriend can live in squalor doesn't mean I can.)
This arrangement was supposed to save us money. It hasn't, and won't. This arrangement was not supposed to be a ginormous headache that would have me commute to school for a month (!) and now work. We don't even have working hot water right now, or a fridge.
I feel bitter and resentful. Perhaps some of that is just because of how exhausted I am (I had an 8 hour shift yesterday, on top of working on the house...I literally eat once a day and get going the minute I wake up and don't stop until my shower at night.) I don't want to feel this way, so I was wondering if the hive mind could help me reframe this. Thank you!
P.S. Like it or not, unless I break up with my boyfriend, I will be living here for the next two years.
You can live somewhere else and not break up with your boyfriend.
posted by corey flood at 10:30 PM on September 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by corey flood at 10:30 PM on September 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
just because my boyfriend can live in squalor doesn't mean I can
I am afraid this in itself would be a dealbreaker to me... he isn't going to change ...
assuming that this is a great relationship you just cannot imagine yourself living without ... then you find a place alone, even if it's a room or a studio apartment, and let HIM deal with the house ... and get together when you can live elsewhere, and you have completed your education.
(but I am thinking that, considering the comment, it isnt all that great ... don't you deserve better?)
posted by batikrose at 10:31 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am afraid this in itself would be a dealbreaker to me... he isn't going to change ...
assuming that this is a great relationship you just cannot imagine yourself living without ... then you find a place alone, even if it's a room or a studio apartment, and let HIM deal with the house ... and get together when you can live elsewhere, and you have completed your education.
(but I am thinking that, considering the comment, it isnt all that great ... don't you deserve better?)
posted by batikrose at 10:31 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I know this is definitely in that space between a rock and a hard place. Moving is only an option if I want to really cause conflict with my boyfriend and his mother (apparently this was "done for us," and if I don't stay and help pay half, my boyfriend will have to work even more (he already works and goes to school full time) to cover all of it.
We will eventually have hot water and a fridge, that part is temporary. The part that I also hope is temporary is my bitterness over the whole thing. Here's the deal, what I wanted was to move into any one of the nice, affordable apartments we saw. This way was supposed to help us out, but I've realized the only one it's helping out is his mother because she is over the next 5 years or so, going to fix it up and turn it around for a profit (it was foreclosed.)
posted by DeltaForce at 10:35 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
We will eventually have hot water and a fridge, that part is temporary. The part that I also hope is temporary is my bitterness over the whole thing. Here's the deal, what I wanted was to move into any one of the nice, affordable apartments we saw. This way was supposed to help us out, but I've realized the only one it's helping out is his mother because she is over the next 5 years or so, going to fix it up and turn it around for a profit (it was foreclosed.)
posted by DeltaForce at 10:35 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
P.S. Like it or not, unless I break up with my boyfriend, I will be living here for the next two years.
Are you really asking people to help you feel good about this, or are you hoping that people will tell you that this is an unreasonable situation that you can get out of without being a bad person?
Because I don't think Ask can help with anything but the latter. To wit:
It isn't your house, the location doesn't work for you, and it sounds like you're doing all the (uncompensated?) work, so there's no need to feel obliged to stick around. You could get an apartment nearer to your job with a roommate and split the rent, while still dating your boyfriend. Unless he's not going to date you once you stop providing all this free cleaning and painting. But that doesn't sound like a great loss.
Dump the MF house already.
posted by Marty Marx at 10:35 PM on September 26, 2010 [14 favorites]
Are you really asking people to help you feel good about this, or are you hoping that people will tell you that this is an unreasonable situation that you can get out of without being a bad person?
Because I don't think Ask can help with anything but the latter. To wit:
It isn't your house, the location doesn't work for you, and it sounds like you're doing all the (uncompensated?) work, so there's no need to feel obliged to stick around. You could get an apartment nearer to your job with a roommate and split the rent, while still dating your boyfriend. Unless he's not going to date you once you stop providing all this free cleaning and painting. But that doesn't sound like a great loss.
Dump the MF house already.
posted by Marty Marx at 10:35 PM on September 26, 2010 [14 favorites]
DeltaForce: I just got back from painting all by lonesome for 10 hours today (just because my boyfriend can live in squalor doesn't mean I can.)
Here is a really critical question, the answer to which will probably help people frame their responses to your original post:
While you were spending 10 hours painting, was he:
a) At work or school for at least 8 of them
b) Bringing you lunch with his many thanks
c) Playing WoW and/or smoking a bowl
If the answer is A or B, this is a situation you can possibly work out. If the answer is C, it likely is not.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:38 PM on September 26, 2010 [14 favorites]
Here is a really critical question, the answer to which will probably help people frame their responses to your original post:
While you were spending 10 hours painting, was he:
a) At work or school for at least 8 of them
b) Bringing you lunch with his many thanks
c) Playing WoW and/or smoking a bowl
If the answer is A or B, this is a situation you can possibly work out. If the answer is C, it likely is not.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:38 PM on September 26, 2010 [14 favorites]
To echo decathecting, I don't think there's a way to reframe this to make it good. Or -- wait, are you asking us to help you reframe the house? I mean, I don't know where you are, but maybe a weekend of a bunch of strangers on the internet helping you fix up the place would help. :) It'd probably be easier than trying to cheer you up about something you absolutely do not want to do.
It sounds like you haven't actually moved yet? If you haven't, then, I would suggest that you don't move into this house. You don't want to do it. And not like, "I don't want to go to the dentist" don't want to -- you do not want to do this.
Don't do it.
Tell him it's unreasonable and unworkable, and rent a tiny place. If he thinks that that's a dealbreaker, then so be it, but don't live there if you can't stand it. You'll break up with him pretty darn fast if you move in there, I guarantee it.
Do you feel that tight feeling in your chest or between your shoulder blades when you think about having to move into that house? Or that sick feeling in your stomach? That is your very own warning system telling you that against your own wants and better judgment, you are doing something to make someone else happy; something that will make you miserable.
On preview: It is not your fault that his mom is using him and you. Are you going to see any of the profit if she manages to resell the house? Or, not so much, because you're getting reduced rent? This sounds pretty shady on her part. You can't help his relationship with his mom. That guilt tripping shit? Not your problem. This is unworkable for you. You need to stay somewhere else.
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 10:41 PM on September 26, 2010 [6 favorites]
It sounds like you haven't actually moved yet? If you haven't, then, I would suggest that you don't move into this house. You don't want to do it. And not like, "I don't want to go to the dentist" don't want to -- you do not want to do this.
Don't do it.
Tell him it's unreasonable and unworkable, and rent a tiny place. If he thinks that that's a dealbreaker, then so be it, but don't live there if you can't stand it. You'll break up with him pretty darn fast if you move in there, I guarantee it.
Do you feel that tight feeling in your chest or between your shoulder blades when you think about having to move into that house? Or that sick feeling in your stomach? That is your very own warning system telling you that against your own wants and better judgment, you are doing something to make someone else happy; something that will make you miserable.
On preview: It is not your fault that his mom is using him and you. Are you going to see any of the profit if she manages to resell the house? Or, not so much, because you're getting reduced rent? This sounds pretty shady on her part. You can't help his relationship with his mom. That guilt tripping shit? Not your problem. This is unworkable for you. You need to stay somewhere else.
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 10:41 PM on September 26, 2010 [6 favorites]
Sorry for the multiple updates, but to be clear that while the answer is C (he was playing Wow), he has, in general, been helping with things around the house. I have done quite a bit more painting, yes, but that is my responsibility seeing as how I'm the one who doesn't want to look at chipped, scuffed up walls.
posted by DeltaForce at 10:43 PM on September 26, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 10:43 PM on September 26, 2010
apparently this was "done for us,"
That is really fucked up.
the answer is C (he was playing Wow),
That is even more fucked up.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 10:44 PM on September 26, 2010 [11 favorites]
That is really fucked up.
the answer is C (he was playing Wow),
That is even more fucked up.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 10:44 PM on September 26, 2010 [11 favorites]
that is my responsibility seeing as how I'm the one who doesn't want to look at chipped, scuffed up walls.
The people who are ostensibly going to buy this place in five years don't want to look at them either.
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 10:45 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
The people who are ostensibly going to buy this place in five years don't want to look at them either.
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 10:45 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Reality check: a "man" who cares about his partner would be working as hard or harder to make her nest as perfect as possible. Seriously.
posted by batikrose at 10:50 PM on September 26, 2010 [25 favorites]
posted by batikrose at 10:50 PM on September 26, 2010 [25 favorites]
Your boyfriend and his mom EXPECT you to live in this house AND PAY HALF, but YOU'RE the one who has to spend ten hours painting while the boyfriend plays games? What?! I was reading through this, hoping I could offer some constructive advice that didn't involve DMTFA, but I'm having a hard time. Let's run through this again.
You: don't want to live in this neighborhood or this dump.
Boyfriend: Mom says you have to.
You: find the place disgusting.
Boyfriend: says you can paint it yourself, then.
You: have to commute to school AND work AND pay half for a nasty house in an unsafe neighborhood for TWO YEARS because you don't want to cause "tension" between yourself, your boyfriend, and his mom?
You realize this isn't going to stop at a house, right? Assuming you realize that, you're not going to be happy unless you either get out of this relationship or make it very clear to your boyfriend that you love him, but this was not what you bargained for, and you deserve to be treated better - tension be damned. He can get a roommate to help with costs, you know, and his mom would get over it eventually. You really don't have to do this. Things like this can be worked out. Or if they can't, then it's even more important to get out.
posted by katillathehun at 11:10 PM on September 26, 2010 [33 favorites]
You: don't want to live in this neighborhood or this dump.
Boyfriend: Mom says you have to.
You: find the place disgusting.
Boyfriend: says you can paint it yourself, then.
You: have to commute to school AND work AND pay half for a nasty house in an unsafe neighborhood for TWO YEARS because you don't want to cause "tension" between yourself, your boyfriend, and his mom?
You realize this isn't going to stop at a house, right? Assuming you realize that, you're not going to be happy unless you either get out of this relationship or make it very clear to your boyfriend that you love him, but this was not what you bargained for, and you deserve to be treated better - tension be damned. He can get a roommate to help with costs, you know, and his mom would get over it eventually. You really don't have to do this. Things like this can be worked out. Or if they can't, then it's even more important to get out.
posted by katillathehun at 11:10 PM on September 26, 2010 [33 favorites]
So, here's a thing I run into when I get to know acquaintances sometimes. You know how some folks do you a favor, like give you a ride, but before you know it, what should have been 20 minutes has turned into a 2 hour affair and you just basically helped/did for them half a day's worth of work?
Not saying 100% BF's mom is like this, but if putting you in a shitty house so you guys can fix it up is a "favor to you" you should really consider what mentality that is that works like that.
More than that, if the goal is to sell the house, for HER profit... yeah, no.
If your BF won't move, consider this- he stays, he gets a roommate at reduced rent who's a handyman and willing to help fix shit. You move to a reasonable apartment closer to the places you need to go. Though the economy is shit, there's a lot of folks with repair skills looking for places to stay at reduced rates. You aren't in a sketchy neighborhood with drama, you aren't festering resentment at him and his mom, the house is getting fixed and you aren't exhausted.
If your BF would take this as an uber-insult, get all weird about it, etc. then you might need to start asking yourself how he would be in marriage or with kids... because long term relationships are all about logistics and dealing with each other's actual NEEDS over one's own insecurities and wants.
Just something to think about.
posted by yeloson at 11:10 PM on September 26, 2010 [8 favorites]
Not saying 100% BF's mom is like this, but if putting you in a shitty house so you guys can fix it up is a "favor to you" you should really consider what mentality that is that works like that.
More than that, if the goal is to sell the house, for HER profit... yeah, no.
If your BF won't move, consider this- he stays, he gets a roommate at reduced rent who's a handyman and willing to help fix shit. You move to a reasonable apartment closer to the places you need to go. Though the economy is shit, there's a lot of folks with repair skills looking for places to stay at reduced rates. You aren't in a sketchy neighborhood with drama, you aren't festering resentment at him and his mom, the house is getting fixed and you aren't exhausted.
If your BF would take this as an uber-insult, get all weird about it, etc. then you might need to start asking yourself how he would be in marriage or with kids... because long term relationships are all about logistics and dealing with each other's actual NEEDS over one's own insecurities and wants.
Just something to think about.
posted by yeloson at 11:10 PM on September 26, 2010 [8 favorites]
Wrote up a huge thing, deleted it. Short version: Your story was so similar to a friend's that I called her to see if she'd joined MF without my knowing. MeMail me if you'd like me to pass on contact info ... she can explain it a hell of a lot better than I.
posted by Heretical at 11:18 PM on September 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Heretical at 11:18 PM on September 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
but if putting you in a shitty house so you guys can fix it up is a "favor to you" you should really consider what mentality that is that works like that.
This, 100%. If you are putting that much work into fixing up a house that his mom is going to profit from, then she needs to be cutting you some slack on the rent. I know you're young and you just moved out of your parents' house, but the fact that you spent 10 hours painting while your boyfriend played video games is so not okay. Take a step back and pretend that your best friend just told you the same story you told us. What would you tell her to do? Personally, I would move the hell out of that house and get a cute two bedroom apartment with a friend.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:24 PM on September 26, 2010 [4 favorites]
This, 100%. If you are putting that much work into fixing up a house that his mom is going to profit from, then she needs to be cutting you some slack on the rent. I know you're young and you just moved out of your parents' house, but the fact that you spent 10 hours painting while your boyfriend played video games is so not okay. Take a step back and pretend that your best friend just told you the same story you told us. What would you tell her to do? Personally, I would move the hell out of that house and get a cute two bedroom apartment with a friend.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:24 PM on September 26, 2010 [4 favorites]
You asked for the hive mind to re-frame this.
One way to re-frame it is that you're getting bamboozled and a really crappy deal, there is absolutely no reason to put up with it and there is much to be said for looking out for your best interests rather than suffering substantially so the best interests of other people are served.
posted by ambient2 at 11:27 PM on September 26, 2010 [8 favorites]
One way to re-frame it is that you're getting bamboozled and a really crappy deal, there is absolutely no reason to put up with it and there is much to be said for looking out for your best interests rather than suffering substantially so the best interests of other people are served.
posted by ambient2 at 11:27 PM on September 26, 2010 [8 favorites]
If you get all worked up about the chipping paint and all of the other little (or glaring) imperfections in this house and your boyfriend doesn't, you almost certainly aren't going to be happy. Since he doesn't really think they're problems, he won't want to spend the money/time to fix them, which means that you will. And you will continue to be bitter about it. This is one of those situations which can be intractable but don't really make either of you bad people.
posted by that girl at 11:27 PM on September 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by that girl at 11:27 PM on September 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
You realise that you have all the leverage here, right?
Boyfriend and Mother need your money and your labour to make this work out financially. They're fucked without you - with a ramshackle house nobody in his right mind would buy off them, and with nobody willing to repair it.
This gives you excellent bargaining power if you want to rediscuss the terms (like, who does what work on the house, who pays how much).
The only thing they have that gives them power over you is their ability to make you feel bad. However, even this ability is something they borrowed from you! You can stop letting the guilt tripping influence you as soon as you decide to.
In short, everything you do in this house, every decision is one that you make of your own free will. Nobody can force you to do anything against your will. Take a deep breath and decide freely what you want to do (move out? stay there? demand more help?) and what consequences you are willing to take on to achieve it (angry people? burn out?).
posted by Omnomnom at 11:36 PM on September 26, 2010 [7 favorites]
Boyfriend and Mother need your money and your labour to make this work out financially. They're fucked without you - with a ramshackle house nobody in his right mind would buy off them, and with nobody willing to repair it.
This gives you excellent bargaining power if you want to rediscuss the terms (like, who does what work on the house, who pays how much).
The only thing they have that gives them power over you is their ability to make you feel bad. However, even this ability is something they borrowed from you! You can stop letting the guilt tripping influence you as soon as you decide to.
In short, everything you do in this house, every decision is one that you make of your own free will. Nobody can force you to do anything against your will. Take a deep breath and decide freely what you want to do (move out? stay there? demand more help?) and what consequences you are willing to take on to achieve it (angry people? burn out?).
posted by Omnomnom at 11:36 PM on September 26, 2010 [7 favorites]
Thanks for all of the advice so far.
To answer your question, halogen, my question was, how can I reframe this so that I don't feel crappy? For instance, are there perks that I'm not thinking about, is there a way/should I take more responsibility for things, despite how it is, and take the high road? Sorry for not including that initially. It seems, however, that I am getting my answer anyway.
It's tough because my boyfriend really is a great, caring, loving guy. He shows it in a lot of ways. So that does have to be taken into consideration.
posted by DeltaForce at 11:37 PM on September 26, 2010
To answer your question, halogen, my question was, how can I reframe this so that I don't feel crappy? For instance, are there perks that I'm not thinking about, is there a way/should I take more responsibility for things, despite how it is, and take the high road? Sorry for not including that initially. It seems, however, that I am getting my answer anyway.
It's tough because my boyfriend really is a great, caring, loving guy. He shows it in a lot of ways. So that does have to be taken into consideration.
posted by DeltaForce at 11:37 PM on September 26, 2010
Could he rent out the house and then use the money to live in a place closer to school? good subject to broach...
posted by parmanparman at 11:40 PM on September 26, 2010
posted by parmanparman at 11:40 PM on September 26, 2010
I am actually not going to add to the clamour to DTMFA. I am instead going to ask you to reframe what is reasonable in this situation, viewing it as generously as I can because I totally get that not everyone sees situations the same way.
OK so your boyfriend's mother sees you guys as a unit and want to help the pair of you out, and buys a house. She plans to let you live there at a reduced rate and then when you are done with your schooling and settled into self-supporting jobs, to sell the house. Sure it's a fixer-upper but there will be hot water and appliances soon and it will be fine.
Let's assume that prior to closing on this house, you went to look at it and even against your better judgement or under pressure, said yes to this plan.
That's arguably reasonable on a planet I can at least visit. What isn't reasonable is your boyfriend not doing everything in his power to make a situation that is quantifiably not good for you in terms of cost, time and transportation as good as it can possibly be. That includes painting, cheerfully. That includes being respectful of the fact you don't feel safe in this neighbourhood, making sure you have the closest possible parking space, and walking you to and from it whenever he's home. That includes thinking the problem through and adding some inexpensive motion lights and spending $120 at Home Depot on a basic alarm system. That includes making sure you have time to eat, even if that means he's packing you a lunch for the car.
Your boyfriend's mother has no obligation to be good to you or look out for anyone's welfare but her own. She's doing a fine job of that and one can only hope her karma reward will be rich indeed. Your boyfriend, however, has every obligation to treat you with care and regard.
If you have those things, you can put up with the crappy house and the manipulative mother in law but it doesn't sound like he has the maturity to bring that to the table and make this situation work for you. I would encourage you to look out for your own well-being because nobody else here is. Do not move into this house. Get a room close to campus. Let the boyfriend get a room mate or the mother find a tenant. Yes it will cause probably a huge drama fest fight but... honey... you can't live like this for two years to avoid a fight or even to avoid a breakup. Nobody you did not give birth to is worth what's being demanded of you here.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:41 PM on September 26, 2010 [28 favorites]
OK so your boyfriend's mother sees you guys as a unit and want to help the pair of you out, and buys a house. She plans to let you live there at a reduced rate and then when you are done with your schooling and settled into self-supporting jobs, to sell the house. Sure it's a fixer-upper but there will be hot water and appliances soon and it will be fine.
Let's assume that prior to closing on this house, you went to look at it and even against your better judgement or under pressure, said yes to this plan.
That's arguably reasonable on a planet I can at least visit. What isn't reasonable is your boyfriend not doing everything in his power to make a situation that is quantifiably not good for you in terms of cost, time and transportation as good as it can possibly be. That includes painting, cheerfully. That includes being respectful of the fact you don't feel safe in this neighbourhood, making sure you have the closest possible parking space, and walking you to and from it whenever he's home. That includes thinking the problem through and adding some inexpensive motion lights and spending $120 at Home Depot on a basic alarm system. That includes making sure you have time to eat, even if that means he's packing you a lunch for the car.
Your boyfriend's mother has no obligation to be good to you or look out for anyone's welfare but her own. She's doing a fine job of that and one can only hope her karma reward will be rich indeed. Your boyfriend, however, has every obligation to treat you with care and regard.
If you have those things, you can put up with the crappy house and the manipulative mother in law but it doesn't sound like he has the maturity to bring that to the table and make this situation work for you. I would encourage you to look out for your own well-being because nobody else here is. Do not move into this house. Get a room close to campus. Let the boyfriend get a room mate or the mother find a tenant. Yes it will cause probably a huge drama fest fight but... honey... you can't live like this for two years to avoid a fight or even to avoid a breakup. Nobody you did not give birth to is worth what's being demanded of you here.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:41 PM on September 26, 2010 [28 favorites]
To answer your question, halogen, my question was, how can I reframe this so that I don't feel crappy? For instance, are there perks that I'm not thinking about, is there a way/should I take more responsibility for things, despite how it is, and take the high road?
Nope. This is a shitty situation and you're being taken advantage of. From your description, you were going to move in to a nice, affordable apartment close to school/work. Now your boyfriend's mother has bought a crappy foreclosed house for you and your boyfriend to live in as a favour to you. This was not done for you. This was done so his mother could have you and her son pay the mortgage and fix the place up to make it habitable so she can then turn around and sell it for a tidy profit. I don't see any way how this benefits you.
The house is in poor condition, in a neighbourhood you hate, far from your school and job - how could that possibly benefit you? How does the 'rent' compare to the apartments you were looking at? Are you paying for all this paint, in addition to applying it?
posted by missmagenta at 11:51 PM on September 26, 2010 [7 favorites]
Nope. This is a shitty situation and you're being taken advantage of. From your description, you were going to move in to a nice, affordable apartment close to school/work. Now your boyfriend's mother has bought a crappy foreclosed house for you and your boyfriend to live in as a favour to you. This was not done for you. This was done so his mother could have you and her son pay the mortgage and fix the place up to make it habitable so she can then turn around and sell it for a tidy profit. I don't see any way how this benefits you.
The house is in poor condition, in a neighbourhood you hate, far from your school and job - how could that possibly benefit you? How does the 'rent' compare to the apartments you were looking at? Are you paying for all this paint, in addition to applying it?
posted by missmagenta at 11:51 PM on September 26, 2010 [7 favorites]
It depends, DeltaForce. If you're like me, then living in a nice place is a priority. It's important to me to look forward to going home and spending time at home and even to inviting people over. I've lived in places that I didn't love, and I was seriously miserable. It sucks to be stuck in that kind of situation for an extended period of time.
Two years is a long time, especially if you're in the prime of your life, and feel bad for even thinking about what those years are going to be like for you. After the two years, will it be your decision where you move to? Will you be buying or renting? You could make a project out of it, and start planning what kind of place you'd like to move to, start saving for it, and make notes of all your favorite interior decor styles and designers to use once you have your own place.
posted by halogen at 11:55 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Two years is a long time, especially if you're in the prime of your life, and feel bad for even thinking about what those years are going to be like for you. After the two years, will it be your decision where you move to? Will you be buying or renting? You could make a project out of it, and start planning what kind of place you'd like to move to, start saving for it, and make notes of all your favorite interior decor styles and designers to use once you have your own place.
posted by halogen at 11:55 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I once bought a crappy house and lived with no hot water and no fridge (6 months!) and painted and toiled and sanded and put blood, sweat and tears into making it a nice place. The thought of doing that for someone else? hahahahahahahaha. Seriously, I feel a little giddy just considering it and not in a good way. In a stabby way.
It's tough because my boyfriend really is a great, caring, loving guy. He shows it in a lot of ways. So that does have to be taken into consideration.
When you are staring at the chipped paint and listening to the drunks fight outside your window and he does something affectionate that is not painting or packing to leave? I bet you don't find it as cute. I would reframe this situation to him as "for the sake of our relationship I am not going to move into that house until a) I am done with school, b) I find a job that is closer and c) you and your mother fix it up to the point that you would be able to rent it on the open market for what I will be paying". It sounds like all of these things could happen within months, which is not a long time frame. I think that's eminently reasonable and, if you really love the guy, could even save your relationship.
posted by fshgrl at 11:55 PM on September 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
It's tough because my boyfriend really is a great, caring, loving guy. He shows it in a lot of ways. So that does have to be taken into consideration.
When you are staring at the chipped paint and listening to the drunks fight outside your window and he does something affectionate that is not painting or packing to leave? I bet you don't find it as cute. I would reframe this situation to him as "for the sake of our relationship I am not going to move into that house until a) I am done with school, b) I find a job that is closer and c) you and your mother fix it up to the point that you would be able to rent it on the open market for what I will be paying". It sounds like all of these things could happen within months, which is not a long time frame. I think that's eminently reasonable and, if you really love the guy, could even save your relationship.
posted by fshgrl at 11:55 PM on September 26, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm a big believer in framing things positively, but I'm also a big believer in framing things truthfully. You are living in an environment that is unsafe, inconvenient, and unpleasant, and the only upside that seems to exist is for someone else. It seems to me that feeling frustrated, angry, etc. about it are important signals that should be acknowledged and heeded, rather than ignored or "reframed."
posted by scody at 12:02 AM on September 27, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by scody at 12:02 AM on September 27, 2010 [10 favorites]
Oh and another thing, what is she charging you guys for rent? Is it comparable to other places in the area that are in the same shape? If it's a penny more, you really need to put your foot down and stop being taken advantage of.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:04 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:04 AM on September 27, 2010
In terms of how much, with utilities, it will be about 400-450 a month. The places we were looking at were about 400-450 before utilities. A one bedroom is definitely smaller than this three bedroom house, so after utilities, I was estimating between 500-550. So it is saving us about 100 a month, collectively.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:13 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 12:13 AM on September 27, 2010
And how much are you spending on tolls to get to and from school/work (not to mention what the time you spend is worth)? It's not worth it.
posted by bluloo at 12:17 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by bluloo at 12:17 AM on September 27, 2010
Those places were also very nice and taken care of. So perhaps with loss of quality, the 100 we are saving is reasonable.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:17 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 12:17 AM on September 27, 2010
But the places you were looking at were an hour closer, in a different neighborhood and were in habitable condition with appliances and painted walls. I'm talking about the places in the area you are living right now, what are they going for?
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:20 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:20 AM on September 27, 2010
*an hour closer to school I mean
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:21 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:21 AM on September 27, 2010
So it is saving us about 100 a month, collectively.
Do the math again with your labour and your commuting expenses factored in.
I agree with the pile-on: you are being taken advantage of, this isn't something you can 're-frame.' It just sucks. Very sorry...
posted by kmennie at 12:22 AM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
Do the math again with your labour and your commuting expenses factored in.
I agree with the pile-on: you are being taken advantage of, this isn't something you can 're-frame.' It just sucks. Very sorry...
posted by kmennie at 12:22 AM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
this post makes me angry because it is so beyond ridiculous. you have choices, so please stop acting as though you don't. either move out or shut up and put up. no one is forcing you to stay except you.
posted by violetk at 12:24 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by violetk at 12:24 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Believe me, I'm all about reframing thigs but this is not fair to you and in the long run, will cost you a lot of you stay there.
I'm going to put this in different words If you spend 2 hours/day communiting ~ 5 days/week and paying for gas and tolls, I estimate that this = $400/month. This does not include you painting or working on the house. You can afford it, get out.
Also, believe me when I say that I've lived in really awful places/small places, etc. But no water, no refrigerator, not safe? If you changed 1/10th of that, you QoL would improve significantly. You could work during those commute hours and get a small place that has all those things.
If you live like this for a long time, too I'm sure this would = stress if not worse (eating?). There will be a cost to your health. Is it worth it?
My jaw also dropped at the "he was playing WOW while you painted." Please don't judge me for making these statements but doesn't that WoW system cost $ along with the time to play? He doesn't need to work during that time? Where is that xtra $ coming for for him and why is he spending it on that? If he has the extra time or money, he can hire someone to paint the wall. I know you say that "he shows that he loves you" but that action really stands out. As another poster noted above, is he aware that you are not eating and offerning to pack you a lunch? He isn't mature enough to think this way.
I'm actually not goingn to say DTMF, believe it or not. But for your sake, please get out and move near campus (go to a dorm/you get running water and hot food). You can see the boyfriend on the side. But the cost of flipping a place and making a profit should not be you or your health.
posted by Wolfster at 12:25 AM on September 27, 2010
I'm going to put this in different words If you spend 2 hours/day communiting ~ 5 days/week and paying for gas and tolls, I estimate that this = $400/month. This does not include you painting or working on the house. You can afford it, get out.
Also, believe me when I say that I've lived in really awful places/small places, etc. But no water, no refrigerator, not safe? If you changed 1/10th of that, you QoL would improve significantly. You could work during those commute hours and get a small place that has all those things.
If you live like this for a long time, too I'm sure this would = stress if not worse (eating?). There will be a cost to your health. Is it worth it?
My jaw also dropped at the "he was playing WOW while you painted." Please don't judge me for making these statements but doesn't that WoW system cost $ along with the time to play? He doesn't need to work during that time? Where is that xtra $ coming for for him and why is he spending it on that? If he has the extra time or money, he can hire someone to paint the wall. I know you say that "he shows that he loves you" but that action really stands out. As another poster noted above, is he aware that you are not eating and offerning to pack you a lunch? He isn't mature enough to think this way.
I'm actually not goingn to say DTMF, believe it or not. But for your sake, please get out and move near campus (go to a dorm/you get running water and hot food). You can see the boyfriend on the side. But the cost of flipping a place and making a profit should not be you or your health.
posted by Wolfster at 12:25 AM on September 27, 2010
Oh, I see, I think there has been some confusion. Where I am living now is an hour away. I have not yet moved to the house because it has not been ready. We were planning to move before school/work started a month ago, but that was not possible because of bank/realtor issues his mother had (getting the house was pretty last minute).
The houses in the area I live are going for about the same. There are a lot of foreclosures, and a lot of pretty rundown apartments. Luckily our house is in the best of the worst. I think I would have refused any less.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:25 AM on September 27, 2010
The houses in the area I live are going for about the same. There are a lot of foreclosures, and a lot of pretty rundown apartments. Luckily our house is in the best of the worst. I think I would have refused any less.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:25 AM on September 27, 2010
Again, thanks for everyone's responses. I don't think that I have conveyed that I don't have choices. I know I do, I am not trying to simply complain, I am just responding to various people's questions and points.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:28 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 12:28 AM on September 27, 2010
Looking at it from purely a financial point of view, then 2 hours a day worth of gas and wear and tear on your car for the commute will probably make this a more expensive living arrangement for you. (100 miles = around $15 / day in gas. That's $75 a week in gas alone, or $300 a month. Wear and tear at even 16 cents a mile, which is low, would be another $80 a week and $320 a month. These aren't pretend costs, they are real dollars out of your pocket both now (gas fill-ups) and in the future (new car cost, maintenance, etc).
Your real costs of living there will be more than $1000 a month.
I'd get out of this with a purely financial argument. "I can't afford spending another $640 a month on transportation costs so I can live here. It just doesn't work. It's a luxury I cannot afford." That should be a guilt-proof argument and if you're boyfriend can't use with his mother, and if she can't understand it, then that is a major red flag and you shouldn't entangle yourself further with them.
posted by visual mechanic at 12:32 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Your real costs of living there will be more than $1000 a month.
I'd get out of this with a purely financial argument. "I can't afford spending another $640 a month on transportation costs so I can live here. It just doesn't work. It's a luxury I cannot afford." That should be a guilt-proof argument and if you're boyfriend can't use with his mother, and if she can't understand it, then that is a major red flag and you shouldn't entangle yourself further with them.
posted by visual mechanic at 12:32 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
OK so just to clarify - you are currently living an hour away from work and school while you wait to move into this house, yes? (That's the month you referenced.) So how far is this house from work and school?
posted by DarlingBri at 12:32 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by DarlingBri at 12:32 AM on September 27, 2010
OP, the one benefit you get is to - at least in the short term - avoid conflict with your boyfriend whom you love, and his mother. The question is, will that hold you for two years? Some people can do it - I know a guy who commuted two hours each way to school for four years, so he could spend every night with his wife and child. What held it together for him was 1) he really, really wanted to go to this particular school and 2) his wife and child needed to stay in the house they were in because they were near family. But it was a decision they made together, and they supported each other. They were working towards a common goal, so when he thought if it during his crappy commute, he didn't get angry because it was part of their joint plan.
But here it sounds like you all didn't make the plan together. It sounds like everyone sort of had their own plan, and it's come together for you badly. It doesn't sound like anyone was being malicious, but it is possible for people with good intentions to inadvertently hurt people they care about. Maybe you thought in theory that it wouldn't be that bad, and that this would work, but it's clear that in practice, it really isn't working for you. So the reason why it feels crappy, is because it is a crappy situation. Since you aren't invested in the house, and there are so many negatives for you, it isn't really possible to 'see some bright side you're missing". Even if you remind yourself that many people don't have a roof over their heads, it's a stretch that this will be comforting when you need to make the dreaded long commute to school - or want to run home from school to pick something up, but you really can't.
I think you should consider sharing that with your boyfriend, and just discuss it. Sometimes avoiding conflict only encourages a later, bigger blow up, and facing conflict can be transformational. Talk to him - it's not that you're blaming anyone. You're just saying what's true for you. The question is: will he listen to you? Let you have your feelings? Ask you what you want to do? Just that might relieve the pressure and resentment you're feeling. Maybe you'll come up with a solution together. But if he dismisses you, or says you're overreacting - well, that's a bad sign. Hitting the DTMFA territory.
posted by anitanita at 12:34 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
But here it sounds like you all didn't make the plan together. It sounds like everyone sort of had their own plan, and it's come together for you badly. It doesn't sound like anyone was being malicious, but it is possible for people with good intentions to inadvertently hurt people they care about. Maybe you thought in theory that it wouldn't be that bad, and that this would work, but it's clear that in practice, it really isn't working for you. So the reason why it feels crappy, is because it is a crappy situation. Since you aren't invested in the house, and there are so many negatives for you, it isn't really possible to 'see some bright side you're missing". Even if you remind yourself that many people don't have a roof over their heads, it's a stretch that this will be comforting when you need to make the dreaded long commute to school - or want to run home from school to pick something up, but you really can't.
I think you should consider sharing that with your boyfriend, and just discuss it. Sometimes avoiding conflict only encourages a later, bigger blow up, and facing conflict can be transformational. Talk to him - it's not that you're blaming anyone. You're just saying what's true for you. The question is: will he listen to you? Let you have your feelings? Ask you what you want to do? Just that might relieve the pressure and resentment you're feeling. Maybe you'll come up with a solution together. But if he dismisses you, or says you're overreacting - well, that's a bad sign. Hitting the DTMFA territory.
posted by anitanita at 12:34 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh okay, disregard my answer, I was confused about the commuting part. I guess the shabby house is near work and school?
But still, you're being taken advantage of. You aren't getting reduced rates. She's getting instant tenants in what I'm guessing is an area that has many vacancies.
posted by visual mechanic at 12:37 AM on September 27, 2010
But still, you're being taken advantage of. You aren't getting reduced rates. She's getting instant tenants in what I'm guessing is an area that has many vacancies.
posted by visual mechanic at 12:37 AM on September 27, 2010
DarlingBri, it's only about 30 minutes from my school, and ten minutes away from his, so it does work out in terms of distance.
Thanks again everyone.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:38 AM on September 27, 2010
Thanks again everyone.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:38 AM on September 27, 2010
Ah, misunderstood about the distance as well. Well - that's another thing you're getting- proximity to school. In the end though, the way you're okay with it is if you make the decision to be there - regardless of the 'strong-arming', you're making a choice. When my husband and I were dating, I moved into his house and watched it while he was in school. I also fixed it up the way I liked it, but the way it worked was that I pretty much paid no rent, and I loved the garden. Hopefully you can find something that would make it worth it to you.
posted by anitanita at 12:51 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by anitanita at 12:51 AM on September 27, 2010
apparently this was "done for us," and if I don't stay and help pay half, my boyfriend will have to work even more (he already works and goes to school full time) to cover all of it.
This really really isn't your problem. If he can't stand up to his mother that's his issue. He could also move somewhere else with you, he could get a different flat mate, he could do all kinds of things. If he chooses to stay without you and work harder then so be it. You're being totally manipulated here.
For instance, are there perks that I'm not thinking about,
Well you're teaching your boyfriend that you'll arrange your whole life around his mother and that your comfort and well being aren't important. So that's something.
is there a way/should I take more responsibility for things, despite how it is,
You're already taking full responsibility, changing your whole life and doing all the work fixing the place up. You're planning to totally subjugate your needs based on their say so, there isn't any more you can do here.
and take the high road?
You've had a lot of advice already about why this isn't a fair or reasonable situation and you already knew you weren't happy. You have other options, so I'd say that if you do decide to go ahead and move in then you need to suck it up and not complain, not be unhappy. This is your decision to make, so if you make it, then decide to live with it. Otherwise you'll just drive yourself crazy being sad and angry. If you don't think you can do this (and I sure wouldn't be able to) then don't move in.
I realise you're in a relationship with this guy and relationships involve sacrifices and compromises. But they don't involve being told what to do by a third party and they do involve both people working really hard to ensure their partner is happy. The compromises should go both ways. This situation, based on what you've told us, has you giving everything and getting nothing in return. Actually looking back anitanita has it:
But it was a decision they made together, and they supported each other.
That is how relationships work. I don't see any of this in your question. Maybe that's because of how you've written it, but to me it really sounds like your boyfriend needs to grow up and stop letting his Mum run his life.
posted by shelleycat at 12:54 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
This really really isn't your problem. If he can't stand up to his mother that's his issue. He could also move somewhere else with you, he could get a different flat mate, he could do all kinds of things. If he chooses to stay without you and work harder then so be it. You're being totally manipulated here.
For instance, are there perks that I'm not thinking about,
Well you're teaching your boyfriend that you'll arrange your whole life around his mother and that your comfort and well being aren't important. So that's something.
is there a way/should I take more responsibility for things, despite how it is,
You're already taking full responsibility, changing your whole life and doing all the work fixing the place up. You're planning to totally subjugate your needs based on their say so, there isn't any more you can do here.
and take the high road?
You've had a lot of advice already about why this isn't a fair or reasonable situation and you already knew you weren't happy. You have other options, so I'd say that if you do decide to go ahead and move in then you need to suck it up and not complain, not be unhappy. This is your decision to make, so if you make it, then decide to live with it. Otherwise you'll just drive yourself crazy being sad and angry. If you don't think you can do this (and I sure wouldn't be able to) then don't move in.
I realise you're in a relationship with this guy and relationships involve sacrifices and compromises. But they don't involve being told what to do by a third party and they do involve both people working really hard to ensure their partner is happy. The compromises should go both ways. This situation, based on what you've told us, has you giving everything and getting nothing in return. Actually looking back anitanita has it:
But it was a decision they made together, and they supported each other.
That is how relationships work. I don't see any of this in your question. Maybe that's because of how you've written it, but to me it really sounds like your boyfriend needs to grow up and stop letting his Mum run his life.
posted by shelleycat at 12:54 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ok now it makes more sense. I still don't understand why you are stuck fixing the place up. I think that's the responsibility of the landlord, or in this case, your boyfriend's mother. I think you should stop putting your time and sweat into this place and only agree to move in once it's in a habitable condition with painted walls, running hot water and a refridgerator. Or, if you continue to put time and effort into this place, you need to be monetarily compensated or have the first few months for free. You're still being taken advantage of.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:58 AM on September 27, 2010
posted by MaryDellamorte at 12:58 AM on September 27, 2010
You need to make sure that next time you find yourself in a situation like this you are able to assert your own needs and not agree to a situation that doesn't work for you. You sound like you got convinced to do something that wasn't really in your best interest and you're going to be mad about it for awhile at least. But if you can try to make this experience a lesson and say to yourself "wow, this was messed up, next time I won't let things get this far without putting a stop to it", that might help you feel better about the current situation.
posted by bluejayk at 1:01 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bluejayk at 1:01 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, also. It is entirely possible that your boyfriend's mother did buy the place entirely to do you a favour and help you out. she may not be profiting from this and it is all for love.
However. You are not her child and you are not *a* child. Just because she thinks it's a good idea doesn't mean you have to roll over and take it. You and the boyfriend should have talked about this right at the start and figured out a situation that works for both of you (which probably meant nipping this whole thing in the bud). Instead you've given in and now you're painting and getting ready to move in and it's going to cause a big stink if you don't. Which sucks, but I can see how it would get to that point. You still don't have to arrange your life around her expectations and it is not too late to put your foot down.
People treat you the way you teach them you can be treated. This whole thing is teaching his Mum that she can run your life and your boyfriend that you'll run around making yourself crazy to please him and his Mother (while he plays computer games no less). Is this the life you want?
posted by shelleycat at 1:09 AM on September 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
However. You are not her child and you are not *a* child. Just because she thinks it's a good idea doesn't mean you have to roll over and take it. You and the boyfriend should have talked about this right at the start and figured out a situation that works for both of you (which probably meant nipping this whole thing in the bud). Instead you've given in and now you're painting and getting ready to move in and it's going to cause a big stink if you don't. Which sucks, but I can see how it would get to that point. You still don't have to arrange your life around her expectations and it is not too late to put your foot down.
People treat you the way you teach them you can be treated. This whole thing is teaching his Mum that she can run your life and your boyfriend that you'll run around making yourself crazy to please him and his Mother (while he plays computer games no less). Is this the life you want?
posted by shelleycat at 1:09 AM on September 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
If you go ahead with the decision to move into this place, you need to be very clear that you must be compensated for the work you are doing. I suspect a lot of your anger could be alleviated, if you were going to actually enjoy some benefit, and not just your bf and his mother. Without compensation, you are just being taken advantage of.
Reduced rent or direct compensation are the best choices, I am sure. If the place cannot be rented out in the conditions in which you will be living, then that should also be taken into monetary consideration. If you are paying less in rent than her mortgage payment, it's still more than she would be getting without tenants. She would have to pay a lot of money to get a professional to do this work.
The other thing you should consider is hashing out the work with your bf. It's not OK for him not to help you with the work. I would resent that, too. Any reasonable person would. He has to step up to the plate and do his share of making the place habitable for you, especially since the decision to live there was made for you. Successful relationships involve compromise on both sides, and effort from both parties.
posted by annsunny at 1:43 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Reduced rent or direct compensation are the best choices, I am sure. If the place cannot be rented out in the conditions in which you will be living, then that should also be taken into monetary consideration. If you are paying less in rent than her mortgage payment, it's still more than she would be getting without tenants. She would have to pay a lot of money to get a professional to do this work.
The other thing you should consider is hashing out the work with your bf. It's not OK for him not to help you with the work. I would resent that, too. Any reasonable person would. He has to step up to the plate and do his share of making the place habitable for you, especially since the decision to live there was made for you. Successful relationships involve compromise on both sides, and effort from both parties.
posted by annsunny at 1:43 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm really glad your commute is getting shorter. So on balance, your commute will at least be better than it is, you get to live with your boyfriend, and you're saving $100 a month.
With all of that cleared up, I stand by my earlier post. People can make things work in really, really difficult circumstances but they both have to be there with two hands on the wheel. One really hard thing to learn is that you can really love someone and not be able to be with them because as great as they are, they are a cruddy partner. My college boyfriend was like that - so sweet, really loved me, great in bed. Also totally aimless, completely ineffectual, and dominated by his mother. Ultimately as much as I loved him, that just was not a good enough package for me and dear God am I glad I made that choice.
It's almost 20 years later. We very occasionally have a drink. I still think he's a really great guy. And I am still so glad I didn't stay with him, because he's basically stuck exactly where he was in college, just with a better income bracket and a wife who's full time job is to nag him. Not great.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:24 AM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
With all of that cleared up, I stand by my earlier post. People can make things work in really, really difficult circumstances but they both have to be there with two hands on the wheel. One really hard thing to learn is that you can really love someone and not be able to be with them because as great as they are, they are a cruddy partner. My college boyfriend was like that - so sweet, really loved me, great in bed. Also totally aimless, completely ineffectual, and dominated by his mother. Ultimately as much as I loved him, that just was not a good enough package for me and dear God am I glad I made that choice.
It's almost 20 years later. We very occasionally have a drink. I still think he's a really great guy. And I am still so glad I didn't stay with him, because he's basically stuck exactly where he was in college, just with a better income bracket and a wife who's full time job is to nag him. Not great.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:24 AM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
This is completely and utterly fucked up and you need to get away from both these people as fast as you possibly can, regardless of whatever consequences it may have for them, or that they have guilt-tripped you into believing it will have for them.
Run. Run. Run!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:27 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Run. Run. Run!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:27 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Not piling on but I'm in a good financial state and am presently moving from a two bedroom apartment to a three bedroom house. There is an order of magnitude difference in the running costs between the two (eg heating costs, water) and I'm looking at places in a good standard of repair. Don't do this. It will end up costing you a fortune.
posted by dmt at 3:35 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by dmt at 3:35 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
If there is a long-term plan that your boyfriend's mom would sell the house for profit after the initial tenants (you and boyfriend) did the work of fixing it up and paying the mortgage, then it was not done "for us." Why is your boyfriend framing it dishonestly?
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:16 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:16 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
In terms of how much, with utilities, it will be about 400-450 a month.
Quite a long while ago, I lived in a ramshackle house in a rough neighborhood and helped the homeowner fix the place up. But I paid only for my own utility use -- no rent was charged at all, because my labor had considerable value. Yours does too.
You are trying to feel good about a situation that you know isn't actually good for you. This is a terrible habit to get into; it will weaken you emotionally and financially, and put you into a downward spiral that will be very difficult to pull out of. If you smell chopped garlic and find yourself in a pot of water with the temperature rising, GET OUT. Don't try to convince yourself you're in a hot tub.
posted by jon1270 at 4:34 AM on September 27, 2010 [7 favorites]
Quite a long while ago, I lived in a ramshackle house in a rough neighborhood and helped the homeowner fix the place up. But I paid only for my own utility use -- no rent was charged at all, because my labor had considerable value. Yours does too.
You are trying to feel good about a situation that you know isn't actually good for you. This is a terrible habit to get into; it will weaken you emotionally and financially, and put you into a downward spiral that will be very difficult to pull out of. If you smell chopped garlic and find yourself in a pot of water with the temperature rising, GET OUT. Don't try to convince yourself you're in a hot tub.
posted by jon1270 at 4:34 AM on September 27, 2010 [7 favorites]
Ay yi yi. Looking at your previous questions, particularly the ones with I have never moved before without a parent being in charge of my stuff and I am getting scammed on craigslist and now I'm getting a bit worried... I am now sort of grieving the extent to which you seem to need an advocate, a "Look asshole, you can't do this to DeltaForce" stand-up pal. (I am assuming you do not because any 'IRL' DeltaForce 'advocate' would've hauled you away from this mess.) Let MetaFilter be your 'advocate' on this one. Listen to the hive, politely extricate yourself right now.
There isn't a free ride on the $100 given the size of the place and the labour. Have you even looked into what utility bills for a house run? (And thirty minutes is still not a great commute.) You are being used. I don't think you know how much it costs to hire people to paint a house or how ridiculously advantageous you happen to be to somebody in the market for an investment property like this.
If this was being done as a favour to you it would've come with the cards out on the table and a much different deal. Like a "I'm interested in investing in this place, but it needs work. I was wondering if you might have any interest in an arrangement where you would live there rent-free in exchange for fixing it up." And then there would've been "You're there for ten hours in a row! Oh goodness, I am off to the store today to get that fridge delivered." If she can afford to make it habitable there is no reason for there to've been any sort of delay on a fridge; "eventually" is a red flag.
You say your boyfriend "really is a great, caring, loving guy" but (particularly with an eye to previous Qs) there isn't anything here to back that up. Great caring loving people are great caring loving people period; being nice most of the time does not excuse tremendous screw-ups here and there. (That's an abuser's con -- 'but he's usually so sweet! It's just not like him at all...') Also: "The neighborhood feels unsafe." And this is where he wants you to live? Mmm.
You feel crappy because this is crappy. You shouldn't try to sugarcoat that.
posted by kmennie at 4:48 AM on September 27, 2010 [19 favorites]
There isn't a free ride on the $100 given the size of the place and the labour. Have you even looked into what utility bills for a house run? (And thirty minutes is still not a great commute.) You are being used. I don't think you know how much it costs to hire people to paint a house or how ridiculously advantageous you happen to be to somebody in the market for an investment property like this.
If this was being done as a favour to you it would've come with the cards out on the table and a much different deal. Like a "I'm interested in investing in this place, but it needs work. I was wondering if you might have any interest in an arrangement where you would live there rent-free in exchange for fixing it up." And then there would've been "You're there for ten hours in a row! Oh goodness, I am off to the store today to get that fridge delivered." If she can afford to make it habitable there is no reason for there to've been any sort of delay on a fridge; "eventually" is a red flag.
You say your boyfriend "really is a great, caring, loving guy" but (particularly with an eye to previous Qs) there isn't anything here to back that up. Great caring loving people are great caring loving people period; being nice most of the time does not excuse tremendous screw-ups here and there. (That's an abuser's con -- 'but he's usually so sweet! It's just not like him at all...') Also: "The neighborhood feels unsafe." And this is where he wants you to live? Mmm.
You feel crappy because this is crappy. You shouldn't try to sugarcoat that.
posted by kmennie at 4:48 AM on September 27, 2010 [19 favorites]
If I were in your situation I'd start setting limits on how long I'd work on the house each day. Maybe you could ask SO to set up a joint schedule for the painting & improvements. Be silly & add trophies & a list of achievements he can unlock since he's a gamer & offer prizes like snacks or special dates with a picnic basket.
I've lived in a remuddling situation. Heating water in a rice cooker sucks! Maybe they can turn the hot water on early & rent a minifridge for now.
posted by dragonplayer at 4:50 AM on September 27, 2010
I've lived in a remuddling situation. Heating water in a rice cooker sucks! Maybe they can turn the hot water on early & rent a minifridge for now.
posted by dragonplayer at 4:50 AM on September 27, 2010
I know for a fact that Real Estate 'flippers' pay at least $20 an hour for moderately skilled, part-time labor. You should be getting at least half that for your work on making the place habitable. If you can't or won't get it in cash, get it in discounted rent. Don't forget to add in your expenses. Keep receipts for every thing from paint to outlets. If it is part of the structure the landlord should pay for it.
Don't let yourself be a doormat. Above posters have given really good advice. Boyfriend can put on his big boy pants and get a roommate if he wants to make Mommy happy. He should be more concerned with making you happy. Do you really see a future with a guy who will put his mom's wishes so far above your comfort? She gets to decide where you live? What comes next? Deciding which jobs her son will take because she has your best interests at heart? Deciding when you'll have kids because you two don't understand how hard it is to raise a family, so she'll let you know when you're ready? Can you see how this mess is a stepping stone to worse things? Trust me, I have some experience with this kind of thing. Lucky for us we were able to extract ourselves.
If Boyfriend will go with you, great. If not, you need to take care of yourself.
posted by TooFewShoes at 5:12 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't let yourself be a doormat. Above posters have given really good advice. Boyfriend can put on his big boy pants and get a roommate if he wants to make Mommy happy. He should be more concerned with making you happy. Do you really see a future with a guy who will put his mom's wishes so far above your comfort? She gets to decide where you live? What comes next? Deciding which jobs her son will take because she has your best interests at heart? Deciding when you'll have kids because you two don't understand how hard it is to raise a family, so she'll let you know when you're ready? Can you see how this mess is a stepping stone to worse things? Trust me, I have some experience with this kind of thing. Lucky for us we were able to extract ourselves.
If Boyfriend will go with you, great. If not, you need to take care of yourself.
posted by TooFewShoes at 5:12 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm joining the pile-on to say that no amount of re-framing will make this into a positive, equitable situation for you.
posted by fuq at 5:27 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fuq at 5:27 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you get all worked up about the chipping paint and all of the other little (or glaring) imperfections in this house and your boyfriend doesn't, you almost certainly aren't going to be happy. Since he doesn't really think they're problems, he won't want to spend the money/time to fix them, which means that you will.
Since he doesn't think these things are problems, what makes you think he isn't going to make things worse, tracking in dirt and carelessly banging things into the walls and leaving broken things broken because "they aren't problems"? And what does it say about him that he refuses to consider that if you think something's a problem, it's, well, a problem? He's the one recasting this—and you're letting him—as a problem of "your preferences."
I'll tell you what, I wouldn't want to live in a house like you're describing, and I would be mad as hell if I spent hours painting without eating anything and my significant other had spent that entire time—or even part of that time—playing WoW. I mean, really—he couldn't come bring you a sandwich? Or help paint? Maybe he needs time to compress after work and school—well, guess what, so do you!
posted by limeonaire at 5:39 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Since he doesn't think these things are problems, what makes you think he isn't going to make things worse, tracking in dirt and carelessly banging things into the walls and leaving broken things broken because "they aren't problems"? And what does it say about him that he refuses to consider that if you think something's a problem, it's, well, a problem? He's the one recasting this—and you're letting him—as a problem of "your preferences."
I'll tell you what, I wouldn't want to live in a house like you're describing, and I would be mad as hell if I spent hours painting without eating anything and my significant other had spent that entire time—or even part of that time—playing WoW. I mean, really—he couldn't come bring you a sandwich? Or help paint? Maybe he needs time to compress after work and school—well, guess what, so do you!
posted by limeonaire at 5:39 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've been thinking about this--Like it or not, unless I break up with my boyfriend, I will be living here for the next two years.--all morning.
Why would continuing the relationship be contingient on your living in, paying for, and working on a house you find unpleasant? Why doesn't your boyfriend care about your feeling safe, happy, and comfortable in your own home? Why is his mother's foolish house-flipping venture more important that your feelings? (And it is foolish: if she can't afford the mortgage and labor costs on her own, she shouldn't be buying this house.) Imagine you were apartment hunting together, setting aside the issue of his mother, say he picks an apartment you hate and says, "If you don't sign the lease on this apartment with me, we're breaking up"--do you see how crazy that would be? Don't let his mother's involvement cloud the issue. His mother is looking to take advantage of you for free labor; your boyfriend is doing something worse. Whatever the reason, and it may be that he just wants to avoid conflict with his mom, he's engaging in extortion: do what I say or I'll break up with you.
"I don't want us to be long-distance" or "I'd like to move in together"--those are reasonable preferences to discuss and find mututally agreeable solutions to, but, "We must live in, clean, pay for, and fix up the old run down house my mother is flipping" is bizarre and controlling.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:17 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
Why would continuing the relationship be contingient on your living in, paying for, and working on a house you find unpleasant? Why doesn't your boyfriend care about your feeling safe, happy, and comfortable in your own home? Why is his mother's foolish house-flipping venture more important that your feelings? (And it is foolish: if she can't afford the mortgage and labor costs on her own, she shouldn't be buying this house.) Imagine you were apartment hunting together, setting aside the issue of his mother, say he picks an apartment you hate and says, "If you don't sign the lease on this apartment with me, we're breaking up"--do you see how crazy that would be? Don't let his mother's involvement cloud the issue. His mother is looking to take advantage of you for free labor; your boyfriend is doing something worse. Whatever the reason, and it may be that he just wants to avoid conflict with his mom, he's engaging in extortion: do what I say or I'll break up with you.
"I don't want us to be long-distance" or "I'd like to move in together"--those are reasonable preferences to discuss and find mututally agreeable solutions to, but, "We must live in, clean, pay for, and fix up the old run down house my mother is flipping" is bizarre and controlling.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:17 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think the mother is a bigger problem than the house. It's a classic toxic in-law situation. You are in a position where if this doesn't work out the way your boyfriend's mother wants it, you are supposedly to blame. This is not going to improve from here unless a lot of feet are put down.
posted by BibiRose at 7:10 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 7:10 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
A. Move out and hope your relationship with your boyfriend survives
B. Get your boyfriend to move out with you, and the two of you (or just him, ideally) can help his mom find a tenant
C. Talk to your boyfriend, and if possible his mom, and give them some ground rules about what you need. I need the house painted, and I cannot/will not pay for all of the supplies and do all of the labor myself. Boyfriend, I need you to help me do x,y,z because I need those things to be happy living somewhere, and even if you don't need them this is a partnership of sorts and I need you to help me or else I cannot live here.
If you are bitter and resentful, you probably should take into account that at some point you agreed to this arrangement - I think you were strong armed and/or guilted into it, but you made the decision, and maybe this helps you at some future point to stop yourself from making a bad decision at the point where you can stop it without as much trouble.
I would probably go with option C - do all that you can to get your boyfriend and his mom to help you out. Do they know how you feel?
BUT - in looking back over your past questions, it strikes me that you're 20 years old, you're going to school, you're trying to settle on a future career, and working, and you're moving. That is a lot, whether you're 20 or 40, but harder in my mind at 20. And it sounds like you have some other things going on as well.
So I'm going to suggest that this house is just one more thing on top of everything else. Not to say that it isn't important or doesn't need to be fixed, because it does, but I would look at it in context.
I know the standard answer is get counseling, and see if your school has it cheap and/or free. I know you don't have a lot of time for that right now, so what other things help you to reduce stress? I would get the stress level a little bit under control, and then I would take a look at the things that aren't working.
I know you've got a lot of stuff going on right now, so hang in there, keep communicating your way through it, and be firm on the things that you need to be happy.
posted by mrs. taters at 7:22 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
B. Get your boyfriend to move out with you, and the two of you (or just him, ideally) can help his mom find a tenant
C. Talk to your boyfriend, and if possible his mom, and give them some ground rules about what you need. I need the house painted, and I cannot/will not pay for all of the supplies and do all of the labor myself. Boyfriend, I need you to help me do x,y,z because I need those things to be happy living somewhere, and even if you don't need them this is a partnership of sorts and I need you to help me or else I cannot live here.
If you are bitter and resentful, you probably should take into account that at some point you agreed to this arrangement - I think you were strong armed and/or guilted into it, but you made the decision, and maybe this helps you at some future point to stop yourself from making a bad decision at the point where you can stop it without as much trouble.
I would probably go with option C - do all that you can to get your boyfriend and his mom to help you out. Do they know how you feel?
BUT - in looking back over your past questions, it strikes me that you're 20 years old, you're going to school, you're trying to settle on a future career, and working, and you're moving. That is a lot, whether you're 20 or 40, but harder in my mind at 20. And it sounds like you have some other things going on as well.
So I'm going to suggest that this house is just one more thing on top of everything else. Not to say that it isn't important or doesn't need to be fixed, because it does, but I would look at it in context.
I know the standard answer is get counseling, and see if your school has it cheap and/or free. I know you don't have a lot of time for that right now, so what other things help you to reduce stress? I would get the stress level a little bit under control, and then I would take a look at the things that aren't working.
I know you've got a lot of stuff going on right now, so hang in there, keep communicating your way through it, and be firm on the things that you need to be happy.
posted by mrs. taters at 7:22 AM on September 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
One piece of practical advice: if the neighborhood "feels" unsafe to you, then you can call the local police and get hard crime statistics.
From my experience "flipping" a house: if your boyfriend and his mother have never done this before, then they almost certainly have underestimated the labor involved. (We certainly did! It's a painful memory.) And this is a terrible, terrible time to be speculating in real estate. You live in an area with "lots of foreclosures and lots of rundown apartments". (I realize you're moving neighborhoods, but it sounds like the general economy's been hit.)
Meanwhile, your boyfriend is refusing to *do* the labor involved.
Your boyfriend's mother has made a financial mistake. A big, big financial mistake. But here's the thing: if she can rent to you, she can rent to real tenants. And if she's renting to you below market, then she can rent to real tenants at market. If she can't afford to make the place a place someone would want to live in, it's massively unreasonable for her to expect *you* to live there.
It's not your job to correct her financial mistake. I've just reread your updates, and the only indication that you were consulted in the choice of house is when you said, "I think I would have refused any less." That hardly sounds like the enthusiastic consent necessary to bring ones son's partner in on your real estate investment. In a region with an apparently sinking real estate market.
Please clear your head of the nonsense that this was done "for you". It's not what you wanted, and it's not where you wanted, and you are ALREADY BITTER and feeling guilted about it. This is not how favors are done.
yeloson's example is spot. On.
posted by endless_forms at 7:22 AM on September 27, 2010 [6 favorites]
From my experience "flipping" a house: if your boyfriend and his mother have never done this before, then they almost certainly have underestimated the labor involved. (We certainly did! It's a painful memory.) And this is a terrible, terrible time to be speculating in real estate. You live in an area with "lots of foreclosures and lots of rundown apartments". (I realize you're moving neighborhoods, but it sounds like the general economy's been hit.)
Meanwhile, your boyfriend is refusing to *do* the labor involved.
Your boyfriend's mother has made a financial mistake. A big, big financial mistake. But here's the thing: if she can rent to you, she can rent to real tenants. And if she's renting to you below market, then she can rent to real tenants at market. If she can't afford to make the place a place someone would want to live in, it's massively unreasonable for her to expect *you* to live there.
It's not your job to correct her financial mistake. I've just reread your updates, and the only indication that you were consulted in the choice of house is when you said, "I think I would have refused any less." That hardly sounds like the enthusiastic consent necessary to bring ones son's partner in on your real estate investment. In a region with an apparently sinking real estate market.
Please clear your head of the nonsense that this was done "for you". It's not what you wanted, and it's not where you wanted, and you are ALREADY BITTER and feeling guilted about it. This is not how favors are done.
yeloson's example is spot. On.
posted by endless_forms at 7:22 AM on September 27, 2010 [6 favorites]
It's tough because my boyfriend really is a great, caring, loving guy.
Then he will understand when you explain your valid reasons for not wanting any part of this deal and moving elsewhere. He is free to get another roomate - or two, since it is a 3-bedroom house. In fact, he'll save even more money that way!
It doesn't make sense to say you are getting a good deal because of the extra bedrooms (unless you rent them out). Presumably, you need one bedroom and are not planning on kids in the next two years.
I also wanted to say that the mom "doing stuff for you so you better respond they way she expects, nevermind that you weren't consulted" problem only gets worse if you don't stop it now.
posted by mikepop at 7:30 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Then he will understand when you explain your valid reasons for not wanting any part of this deal and moving elsewhere. He is free to get another roomate - or two, since it is a 3-bedroom house. In fact, he'll save even more money that way!
It doesn't make sense to say you are getting a good deal because of the extra bedrooms (unless you rent them out). Presumably, you need one bedroom and are not planning on kids in the next two years.
I also wanted to say that the mom "doing stuff for you so you better respond they way she expects, nevermind that you weren't consulted" problem only gets worse if you don't stop it now.
posted by mikepop at 7:30 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
> my question was, how can I reframe this so that I don't feel crappy?
You should feel crappy. It is a crappy situation that is being imposed on you. You don't have to break up with your boyfriend if you don't want to, but you really should, for your own self-respect, make it clear that you're not going to do this, and then follow up. If your boyfriend then breaks up with you because his mother is unhappy, that will cause you brief pain but make the rest of your life a hell of a lot better.
posted by languagehat at 7:42 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
You should feel crappy. It is a crappy situation that is being imposed on you. You don't have to break up with your boyfriend if you don't want to, but you really should, for your own self-respect, make it clear that you're not going to do this, and then follow up. If your boyfriend then breaks up with you because his mother is unhappy, that will cause you brief pain but make the rest of your life a hell of a lot better.
posted by languagehat at 7:42 AM on September 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
You know what? My mom-in-law invested in a fixer-upper house for us to live in when my husband went back to school, to help us afford him going back to school. Let me tell you about how that went.
She made the offer and didn't pressure us to agree to it.
She told us what her price range was and went house shopping with us there. She didn't force any particular house on us; in fact, she stayed out of most of it (except that when she saw one house with fire damage, she insisted we couldn't get any houses like that one because she was worried about us). She said that we were going to be living in the house, so we should find one we were comfortable with. In short, we picked the house and she bought it.
We put a lot of work into that house, and increased its value substantially. In return, we lived there *rent-free*. Paid the utilities, of course, and paid for most of the supplies for the repairs/upgrades/etc.
We've been so grateful...and she has never, never, never used that help she gave us to pressure us, to guilt-trip us, to try to pull invisible strings.
Now that? THAT was done "for us." What you're talking about? That was not done "for you." There is no reason to let guilt-trips have any meaning, because this WAS NOT DONE FOR YOU.
posted by galadriel at 8:08 AM on September 27, 2010 [15 favorites]
She made the offer and didn't pressure us to agree to it.
She told us what her price range was and went house shopping with us there. She didn't force any particular house on us; in fact, she stayed out of most of it (except that when she saw one house with fire damage, she insisted we couldn't get any houses like that one because she was worried about us). She said that we were going to be living in the house, so we should find one we were comfortable with. In short, we picked the house and she bought it.
We put a lot of work into that house, and increased its value substantially. In return, we lived there *rent-free*. Paid the utilities, of course, and paid for most of the supplies for the repairs/upgrades/etc.
We've been so grateful...and she has never, never, never used that help she gave us to pressure us, to guilt-trip us, to try to pull invisible strings.
Now that? THAT was done "for us." What you're talking about? That was not done "for you." There is no reason to let guilt-trips have any meaning, because this WAS NOT DONE FOR YOU.
posted by galadriel at 8:08 AM on September 27, 2010 [15 favorites]
apparently this was "done for us," and if I don't stay and help pay half, my boyfriend will have to work even more
This is a terrible kind of emotional extortion. You have to go along with this scheme or else your boyfriend suffers?
Your boyfriend and his mother have made a pretty big choice on your behalf. You feel crappy not only because the house is in disrepair, in a bad neighborhood, etc., but because you feel backed into the situation. The way to feel better about it is to think about your own costs and benefits, think about what trade-offs you want to make, and then start making your own decisions. I think yeloson has a good proposal, but if you just do something because it's what Metafilter tells you to do, you still won't be owning the decision. Decide what you want—I suggest that you make an itemized list of conditions that you need in order to be comfortable with your living situation and able to focus on your school work—and then, independently of your boyfriend's mother's agenda, decide what you're willing to trade off in order to get those conditions met. Then put a plan into action.
posted by Orinda at 9:27 AM on September 27, 2010
This is a terrible kind of emotional extortion. You have to go along with this scheme or else your boyfriend suffers?
Your boyfriend and his mother have made a pretty big choice on your behalf. You feel crappy not only because the house is in disrepair, in a bad neighborhood, etc., but because you feel backed into the situation. The way to feel better about it is to think about your own costs and benefits, think about what trade-offs you want to make, and then start making your own decisions. I think yeloson has a good proposal, but if you just do something because it's what Metafilter tells you to do, you still won't be owning the decision. Decide what you want—I suggest that you make an itemized list of conditions that you need in order to be comfortable with your living situation and able to focus on your school work—and then, independently of your boyfriend's mother's agenda, decide what you're willing to trade off in order to get those conditions met. Then put a plan into action.
posted by Orinda at 9:27 AM on September 27, 2010
WEll, it's crappy that your boyfriend's mom is making you feel obligated to do this when you are not in any way obligated to live in the house or pay her rent / mortgage if you don't want to. But the house is closer to your school / work and the issues of hot water and refridgeration should be taken care of before you move in or give 1/8th of a cent to boyfriend's mom. As long as the house is stable, having something that is a cosmetic fixer upper for the next 2 years can be a good experience for you and you can learn alot about what kinds of repairs and renovations you can do yourself to save money when you have your own house in the future. you may actually find that you like it a little.
As for the working an 8 hour shift and then having other life shit to do until you go to bed.....welcome to the real world, toots. It's not all fun, games, and study breaks. Theres plenty of people with 1 hour each way commutes, working 12 hour shifts, then attending night school, before they go home and cook for their family.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:38 AM on September 27, 2010
As for the working an 8 hour shift and then having other life shit to do until you go to bed.....welcome to the real world, toots. It's not all fun, games, and study breaks. Theres plenty of people with 1 hour each way commutes, working 12 hour shifts, then attending night school, before they go home and cook for their family.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:38 AM on September 27, 2010
I favorited just about every other comment above mine.
Here is one point I didn't specifically see made, tho...
YOUR BF'S MOM IS NOW YOUR LANDLORD.
- DOES SHE HAVE THE $$ TO MAKE REPAIRS ON THIS FORECLOSED HOUSE, LIKE WHEN THE ROOF LEAKS THIS WINTER, OR WHEN THE PIPES BURST?
Seriously. You will discover after move-in (and these things always come to light when you are on the premises full-time) that this house is more than just cosmetically challenged. It likely has rental code violations and isn't fit to be rented in it's current state. Well... isn't fit to rent, except to you and her son, who won't complain because this deal was presented as a "favor" to you both. It will be a shitty shitty winter for you when serious damage/repairs are discovered. You will have none of the normal legal incentives available to make your landlord responsible for timely repairs. You will wait weeks/months for things to get taken care of.
Bottom line: IF SHE NEEDS YOU THERE TO PAY THE MORTGAGE, SHE CAN NOT AFFORD TO MAKE THIS PROPERTY LIVABLE. PLEASE DON'T MOVE IN.
I think roommates for your BF in this house are a viable option. Go find a nicer living situation w/out all the drama closer to school and work. See your BF whenever you want. Be glad when you can leave his run-down house and go home to your nice/clean/warm apartment.
Problem solved.
posted by jbenben at 9:55 AM on September 27, 2010 [9 favorites]
Here is one point I didn't specifically see made, tho...
YOUR BF'S MOM IS NOW YOUR LANDLORD.
- DOES SHE HAVE THE $$ TO MAKE REPAIRS ON THIS FORECLOSED HOUSE, LIKE WHEN THE ROOF LEAKS THIS WINTER, OR WHEN THE PIPES BURST?
Seriously. You will discover after move-in (and these things always come to light when you are on the premises full-time) that this house is more than just cosmetically challenged. It likely has rental code violations and isn't fit to be rented in it's current state. Well... isn't fit to rent, except to you and her son, who won't complain because this deal was presented as a "favor" to you both. It will be a shitty shitty winter for you when serious damage/repairs are discovered. You will have none of the normal legal incentives available to make your landlord responsible for timely repairs. You will wait weeks/months for things to get taken care of.
Bottom line: IF SHE NEEDS YOU THERE TO PAY THE MORTGAGE, SHE CAN NOT AFFORD TO MAKE THIS PROPERTY LIVABLE. PLEASE DON'T MOVE IN.
I think roommates for your BF in this house are a viable option. Go find a nicer living situation w/out all the drama closer to school and work. See your BF whenever you want. Be glad when you can leave his run-down house and go home to your nice/clean/warm apartment.
Problem solved.
posted by jbenben at 9:55 AM on September 27, 2010 [9 favorites]
While my post was a bit "shouty", I also wanted to convey my empathy and understanding for you in this situation.
It's happened many many many times to me that folks I've trusted have "offered" me "favors" that in reality were situations which greatly benefitted them and inconvenienced me. It feels so awful in your gut. Hence, your bitterness. Deep down, you know.
These favor providers are usually very clever in framing the "favor" such that you would be considered unreasonable and ungrateful to accept. I know. I know.
If you need a script for extricating yourself, I think there are quite a few tips in the many answers above. For the record, a simple "No thank you" without too much explanation is always appropriate.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 10:31 AM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
It's happened many many many times to me that folks I've trusted have "offered" me "favors" that in reality were situations which greatly benefitted them and inconvenienced me. It feels so awful in your gut. Hence, your bitterness. Deep down, you know.
These favor providers are usually very clever in framing the "favor" such that you would be considered unreasonable and ungrateful to accept. I know. I know.
If you need a script for extricating yourself, I think there are quite a few tips in the many answers above. For the record, a simple "No thank you" without too much explanation is always appropriate.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 10:31 AM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
Oh boy. I'm on the tail end of this exact situation, and trust me: It really sucks, and you cannot fix the broken family dynamic.
The pretty much only option is to find somewhere else to live. Having family as your landlords.. really sucks. The house has been a construction site for at least 5 years. With all exultant bills and concerns. For example, my boyfriend and I were expected to call and pay for any repairs, because the house belonged to his family. Even relatively simple things like their calling before putting their key to the house in the lock? Not done, because he's a family member. I got walked in on in various states of undress at least once that I can clearly remember.
Now that it's coming time to get out of this house.. we've stated that the landlord/tenant relationship, and the parental/son relationship, and the relationship between his parents and I have ALL experienced some major breakdowns or lack of communications. This has not gone over well, despite not playing he said/she said, or laying blame on one side.
Part of it is a pretty major difference in family style, communications and relating to each other. (Example: If it gets to the point where I have to yell at any member of my family, as soon as the yelling stops? We're done. The issue is resolved by actual effort put in on the "problem", as it were. In my experiences in dealing with his family? Saying you're hurt and saying it angrily is another log on the fire of why you're an asshole and need to be hated, as opposed to a signal that you are at the end of your rope.) My parents, despite not having seen each other in 20+ years, would NOT enter into a business relationship with me, either separately or together- because mixing business and family can be really bad if you let emotions get in the way.
As it stands, right now? We've just signed the lease on an apartment that nobody in his family knows where is, and we're divorcing them for a while. Figuring out what WE want, as a two-person family, and figuring out if we can do this by and for ourselves. We're buying ourselves the time and space to heal from the series of awful experiences life has handed us lately.
posted by SOCK_RDM at 10:31 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
The pretty much only option is to find somewhere else to live. Having family as your landlords.. really sucks. The house has been a construction site for at least 5 years. With all exultant bills and concerns. For example, my boyfriend and I were expected to call and pay for any repairs, because the house belonged to his family. Even relatively simple things like their calling before putting their key to the house in the lock? Not done, because he's a family member. I got walked in on in various states of undress at least once that I can clearly remember.
Now that it's coming time to get out of this house.. we've stated that the landlord/tenant relationship, and the parental/son relationship, and the relationship between his parents and I have ALL experienced some major breakdowns or lack of communications. This has not gone over well, despite not playing he said/she said, or laying blame on one side.
Part of it is a pretty major difference in family style, communications and relating to each other. (Example: If it gets to the point where I have to yell at any member of my family, as soon as the yelling stops? We're done. The issue is resolved by actual effort put in on the "problem", as it were. In my experiences in dealing with his family? Saying you're hurt and saying it angrily is another log on the fire of why you're an asshole and need to be hated, as opposed to a signal that you are at the end of your rope.) My parents, despite not having seen each other in 20+ years, would NOT enter into a business relationship with me, either separately or together- because mixing business and family can be really bad if you let emotions get in the way.
As it stands, right now? We've just signed the lease on an apartment that nobody in his family knows where is, and we're divorcing them for a while. Figuring out what WE want, as a two-person family, and figuring out if we can do this by and for ourselves. We're buying ourselves the time and space to heal from the series of awful experiences life has handed us lately.
posted by SOCK_RDM at 10:31 AM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
it is saving us about 100 a month, collectively.
You're doing this for $50?
posted by k8t at 12:40 PM on September 27, 2010 [8 favorites]
You're doing this for $50?
posted by k8t at 12:40 PM on September 27, 2010 [8 favorites]
As others have said, it seems like you need some guidance from an adult. I promise that Metafilter is full of nice adults. Listen to them.
Here's some more adult advice:
So you're in your late teens, starting a new college with a part-time job. You're independent from your mother and don't have a dad in your life.
If I were you, with your stuff still in boxes or at least organized, I'd look into moving into the dorms or look on CraigsList in your college town (or the student newspaper website) to find some total strangers who are college students to move in with.
Your number 1 goal is to do well in school. Your number 2 goal is to be financially responsible.
Some thoughts:
- Living 'by yourself' is something that everyone should do. You have the rest of your life to live with a significant other.
- Reducing your commute will save you money.
- Even though the commute seems doable right now, what about factoring in studying time?
- Fixing up this house, painting, etc. is valuable ($20/hr minimum) and you're not getting anything out of doing it. Your rent isn't that much less than other places.
- Utilities for a bigger house are more expensive.
- Why do you need 3 bedrooms? Are you going to rent out the other 2 and eliminate the need for you to pay for rent?
I'd say to boyfriend: "This commute is too much. I cannot work and fix up this house. I am sorry for you and your mother, but you're going to need to find another roommate. I'm moving to another city."
posted by k8t at 12:52 PM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
Here's some more adult advice:
So you're in your late teens, starting a new college with a part-time job. You're independent from your mother and don't have a dad in your life.
If I were you, with your stuff still in boxes or at least organized, I'd look into moving into the dorms or look on CraigsList in your college town (or the student newspaper website) to find some total strangers who are college students to move in with.
Your number 1 goal is to do well in school. Your number 2 goal is to be financially responsible.
Some thoughts:
- Living 'by yourself' is something that everyone should do. You have the rest of your life to live with a significant other.
- Reducing your commute will save you money.
- Even though the commute seems doable right now, what about factoring in studying time?
- Fixing up this house, painting, etc. is valuable ($20/hr minimum) and you're not getting anything out of doing it. Your rent isn't that much less than other places.
- Utilities for a bigger house are more expensive.
- Why do you need 3 bedrooms? Are you going to rent out the other 2 and eliminate the need for you to pay for rent?
I'd say to boyfriend: "This commute is too much. I cannot work and fix up this house. I am sorry for you and your mother, but you're going to need to find another roommate. I'm moving to another city."
posted by k8t at 12:52 PM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
PS, if boyfriend's mother is that dependent upon your $250/month in order to keep this house that she wants to flip, this is not someone that you want to be in a financial agreement with.
posted by k8t at 12:53 PM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by k8t at 12:53 PM on September 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
There is no possible upside for you in this scenario. There isn't much of one for your boyfriend, but there is potentially one in the form of him inheriting the house. Best case scenario: you get nothing.
I'm not even clear on whether you had to pay for the paint yourself, it sounds like you probably did. In which case you are almost certainly out money for the privilege of living in a place you hate.
Tell them that you've looked at the market, you are saving virtually nothing on rent, especially since you could get a nicer place for almost the same price that wouldn't require you to inject your labor as part of the deal. Say it very clearly: "We agreed to this because it was supposed to save us money and it hasn't. Either we change the terms so that it saves us a SIGNIFICANT amount of money or I'm out."
You are never going to feel good about this arrangement because you are getting screwed pure and simple. You aren't making a temporary sacrifice for some payoff down the road. There is no payoff. You have to stand up for yourself. Your boyfriend's mother isn't going to like you standing up for yourself and is going to try and guilt you into acquiescing. Don't fall for it. Stand your ground.
posted by whoaali at 2:47 PM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm not even clear on whether you had to pay for the paint yourself, it sounds like you probably did. In which case you are almost certainly out money for the privilege of living in a place you hate.
Tell them that you've looked at the market, you are saving virtually nothing on rent, especially since you could get a nicer place for almost the same price that wouldn't require you to inject your labor as part of the deal. Say it very clearly: "We agreed to this because it was supposed to save us money and it hasn't. Either we change the terms so that it saves us a SIGNIFICANT amount of money or I'm out."
You are never going to feel good about this arrangement because you are getting screwed pure and simple. You aren't making a temporary sacrifice for some payoff down the road. There is no payoff. You have to stand up for yourself. Your boyfriend's mother isn't going to like you standing up for yourself and is going to try and guilt you into acquiescing. Don't fall for it. Stand your ground.
posted by whoaali at 2:47 PM on September 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
Joining the pile-on of "move out of the house," with one added bit of encouragement. I remember the last time I needed to extricate myself from a bad situation and was anxious about doing it. I delayed and delayed and rationalized staying in it, and, like you, tried to reframe the situation and put a positive spin on it. Somewhere in one of my drawers is a piece of paper on which I've written all the positive things I could think of about what was going on. But the very second I took steps toward getting out of it, I felt more relieved than I have ever been. Everybody I know commented on how different I seemed. Seriously, once you announce your intention to get out of the house, it will be like somebody said, "hey DeltaForce, why don't you put down that bag of bowling balls?" when you didn't even know you were carrying one. Do it right this second.
posted by Ragged Richard at 6:39 AM on September 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Ragged Richard at 6:39 AM on September 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Piling on the "you MUST move" bandwagon. And yes, it sucks, but you may have to break up with your BF if he doesn't have a spine/balls. The longer you are with this guy and the more you invest in him, the harder it will be to break up. And a momma's boy/manipulative MIL combination is guaran-goddamn-teed (tm David Sedaris' mom) to make a relationship a pit of misery and suck.
Looking back at your other questions as well - has anyone or anything in your past given you the feeling that you must always acquiesce, that you have no right to make even reasonable demands on others, that if you speak up Bad Things will happen? I'm not saying you have, but it might be the case where setting boundaries has gotten you punished in the past. Or if you were overprotected to the point of never being allowed to do anything for yourself, it could have left you so naive/unprepared/defenseless in the wide world that users and advantage-takers see a sitting duck. In addition to therapy and more traditional self-help works, I've found the Buddhist-based works of Byron Katie and Pema Chodron an immense help. Here is Pema Chodron on idiot compassion - the feeling you can't hold anyone accountable for their behavior because "I have to have compassion for them" or "I have to see it from their side." (The woman who wrote that post I linked to is a worker at a homeless shelter, so she has experience with this.)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:12 AM on September 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Looking back at your other questions as well - has anyone or anything in your past given you the feeling that you must always acquiesce, that you have no right to make even reasonable demands on others, that if you speak up Bad Things will happen? I'm not saying you have, but it might be the case where setting boundaries has gotten you punished in the past. Or if you were overprotected to the point of never being allowed to do anything for yourself, it could have left you so naive/unprepared/defenseless in the wide world that users and advantage-takers see a sitting duck. In addition to therapy and more traditional self-help works, I've found the Buddhist-based works of Byron Katie and Pema Chodron an immense help. Here is Pema Chodron on idiot compassion - the feeling you can't hold anyone accountable for their behavior because "I have to have compassion for them" or "I have to see it from their side." (The woman who wrote that post I linked to is a worker at a homeless shelter, so she has experience with this.)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:12 AM on September 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by decathecting at 10:25 PM on September 26, 2010 [6 favorites]