How does one go about moving to Paris?
September 20, 2010 8:26 AM Subscribe
I'm thinking about moving to Paris, France in a year.
I'm a software engineer living in Canada. I will have a degree within the next few months. I have an EU citizenship (Portugal). I speak almost no French. What should I look into? Is this a terrible idea?
Background: I'm bored and kind of aimless.
I feel like I'm at the last/right time of my life where I should take big risks and experience things. Currently I have a great circle of friends but other than my lease I have no commitments; in lieu of a girlfriend, I figure I should do *something*. I figure moving to France for a year would be an experience I would not regret.
I'm fluent (up to Grade 9 education) in Portuguese. I'm pretty sure I could become conversational in French in a few months.
Why Paris? I've spent two weeks there and I loved it.
I can only live in large cities. Immigrating to the US is a non starter pain in the ass, plus I love healthcare. I'm not going to Lisbon. I have no love for the Spanish. I found London to be immensely depressing.
My "plan" is to save up money and possibly score an offsite contract that will feed me for a few months, despite the income tax complications (I currently work as a Ruby on Rails contractor).
At this stage it's just a flight of fancy, something I'm vaguely considering - my lease ends September 2011.
I realize that:
- It will be depressing as fuck as I will not have any friends and will have to start from scratch
- Paris is considerably more expensive than Toronto
- The French do not look kindly upon those who do not speak French
I do understand that despite the EU citizenship, there is still a ton of crap to undergo - not to mention difficulties getting a job there once my current network dries up from distance and inactivity.
Have any mefits had any similar experiences?
Background: I'm bored and kind of aimless.
I feel like I'm at the last/right time of my life where I should take big risks and experience things. Currently I have a great circle of friends but other than my lease I have no commitments; in lieu of a girlfriend, I figure I should do *something*. I figure moving to France for a year would be an experience I would not regret.
I'm fluent (up to Grade 9 education) in Portuguese. I'm pretty sure I could become conversational in French in a few months.
Why Paris? I've spent two weeks there and I loved it.
I can only live in large cities. Immigrating to the US is a non starter pain in the ass, plus I love healthcare. I'm not going to Lisbon. I have no love for the Spanish. I found London to be immensely depressing.
My "plan" is to save up money and possibly score an offsite contract that will feed me for a few months, despite the income tax complications (I currently work as a Ruby on Rails contractor).
At this stage it's just a flight of fancy, something I'm vaguely considering - my lease ends September 2011.
I realize that:
- It will be depressing as fuck as I will not have any friends and will have to start from scratch
- Paris is considerably more expensive than Toronto
- The French do not look kindly upon those who do not speak French
I do understand that despite the EU citizenship, there is still a ton of crap to undergo - not to mention difficulties getting a job there once my current network dries up from distance and inactivity.
Have any mefits had any similar experiences?
dripdripdrop: pmv has EU citizenship. They can work in France for the rest of their life if they want.
posted by caek at 8:33 AM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by caek at 8:33 AM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is a terrible idea at all. Go for it! It's a cliche, but you only really regret the things you didn't do...
You should look into Couchsurfing. Not necessarily as a travel thing, but rather as a way to meet people. Every major city has regular Couchsurfing meetings, where hosts get together over drinks or fun activities. These are the kinds of people that are all about making new foreign friends. You'll definitely meet locals this way. Once you get your own place, you could even consider hosting other travelers, but you don't have to.
And find French classes now. Even if it's just an intro course. It'll get things flowing sooner when you get there, and it's something concrete you can do to commit to this plan, even though the actually move may be months away.
My best advice is to try to make this concrete as soon as you can. Do things now that will lead to this becoming a reality. Set up a specific savings account, for instance, and commit all you can to it.
Good luck!
posted by hamandcheese at 8:44 AM on September 20, 2010
You should look into Couchsurfing. Not necessarily as a travel thing, but rather as a way to meet people. Every major city has regular Couchsurfing meetings, where hosts get together over drinks or fun activities. These are the kinds of people that are all about making new foreign friends. You'll definitely meet locals this way. Once you get your own place, you could even consider hosting other travelers, but you don't have to.
And find French classes now. Even if it's just an intro course. It'll get things flowing sooner when you get there, and it's something concrete you can do to commit to this plan, even though the actually move may be months away.
My best advice is to try to make this concrete as soon as you can. Do things now that will lead to this becoming a reality. Set up a specific savings account, for instance, and commit all you can to it.
Good luck!
posted by hamandcheese at 8:44 AM on September 20, 2010
caek: The France work visa may put him ahead of EU citizens for employers as I believe there is less paperwork for them. You also get the assistance of an office in France.
posted by dripdripdrop at 9:03 AM on September 20, 2010
posted by dripdripdrop at 9:03 AM on September 20, 2010
There are tons of resources online, and _through_ the web (podcasts, conversation/pen pals), to help augment a French class. Have fun.
posted by amtho at 9:17 AM on September 20, 2010
posted by amtho at 9:17 AM on September 20, 2010
Genuinely curious to know what kind of paperwork France requires for employers of EU citizens who, by treaty, have the right to Freedom of Movement within the EU, that it does not require of Canadian citizens on one year working visitor visas. Do you have a reference for this?
It's my understanding that to require any immigration/visa related paperwork from an EU citizen would contravene the treaties to which France and all other member states are a signatories. The whole point of Freedom of Movement for EU citizens is that no additional burdens can be placed on the employer or employee. As far as I know, France (like Germany) requires a new arrival with the right to work to register for the tax system/social security, etc., but this is equally true wherever the person comes from.
posted by caek at 9:24 AM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's my understanding that to require any immigration/visa related paperwork from an EU citizen would contravene the treaties to which France and all other member states are a signatories. The whole point of Freedom of Movement for EU citizens is that no additional burdens can be placed on the employer or employee. As far as I know, France (like Germany) requires a new arrival with the right to work to register for the tax system/social security, etc., but this is equally true wherever the person comes from.
posted by caek at 9:24 AM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
My best friend is doing this now. He is an American, and had considerably more hoops to jump through than you will to get a year long visa, but he is having a *wonderful* time there. I think you should go for it.
posted by kimdog at 9:51 AM on September 20, 2010
posted by kimdog at 9:51 AM on September 20, 2010
You have an advantage in speaking Portuguese, though you do need to get your French up to snuff pretty quickly. The French (IMHO) don't look unkindly on people who do not speak French at all - they themselves don't take up languages as readily as e.g. the Dutch - but they don't suffer fools and that is why (again IMHO) loud people have problems there. By far the majority of French people I have met will do their level best to understand you; and they will help you as a matter of course. Grammatical help is intended as a "who wouldn't like to know this better?" instead of a "stupid foreigner, THIS is how you say it".
Some French companies - Alcatel was one when I worked there - have English as their 'official' language which seemed strange to me.
Just as an example of where you might have an advantage with spoken Portuguese: Embraer Europe.
posted by jet_silver at 10:17 AM on September 20, 2010
Some French companies - Alcatel was one when I worked there - have English as their 'official' language which seemed strange to me.
Just as an example of where you might have an advantage with spoken Portuguese: Embraer Europe.
posted by jet_silver at 10:17 AM on September 20, 2010
With regards to learning French, are you still registered in school? If so, and if you are also a Canadian citizen, sign up for the spring or summer language bursary program next year. Tuition, room and board are covered by the Canadian government. You just need to get yourself to wherever you are going. I did it twice after I moved to Montreal about 12 years ago and I learned more in 5 weeks than I ever would have thought possible.
If you do sign up for it the spring program will have older students (university students), the summer younger (mostly high school students in their last year). Also, try and get placed somewhere that is very francophone. Montreal is no good - most people can communicate in English. I did the program in Chicoutimi the first time around and boarded with a francophone family. When I arrived I couldn't do much more than ask where the bathroom was. By the time I left I could hold a conversation reasonably well.
posted by Cuke at 10:47 AM on September 20, 2010
If you do sign up for it the spring program will have older students (university students), the summer younger (mostly high school students in their last year). Also, try and get placed somewhere that is very francophone. Montreal is no good - most people can communicate in English. I did the program in Chicoutimi the first time around and boarded with a francophone family. When I arrived I couldn't do much more than ask where the bathroom was. By the time I left I could hold a conversation reasonably well.
posted by Cuke at 10:47 AM on September 20, 2010
Some French companies - Alcatel was one when I worked there - have English as their 'official' language which seemed strange to me.
I've worked for quite a few of them. Big ones. In the 10 years I've been doing that, I've never once spoken a word of English, except when giving English courses. And I'm American and was hired in large part because of my bilingual skills.
Aside from that though, Paris is a different beast; it's easier to get by on English than elsewhere in France. Not that the French look down on non-French speakers, but they have a hard time with foreign languages, and outside of Paris, they have fewer opportunities to speak them.
Listen to caek, s/he knows what s/he's talking about. It's EU citizens who are ahead of anyone who needs a visa of any kind. Again, I speak as a non-EU citizen (American) who's lived in Europe for 13 years now (11 in France, of which 1 was as a student).
It sounds like you have a good plan — do take some French courses as soon as you can, it will really help. Oh and, also keep in mind... housing in Paris has never been more expensive than it is now. An unholy combination of changing tax and rental laws has caused housing costs to spike this year (rentals included).
posted by fraula at 12:24 PM on September 20, 2010
I've worked for quite a few of them. Big ones. In the 10 years I've been doing that, I've never once spoken a word of English, except when giving English courses. And I'm American and was hired in large part because of my bilingual skills.
Aside from that though, Paris is a different beast; it's easier to get by on English than elsewhere in France. Not that the French look down on non-French speakers, but they have a hard time with foreign languages, and outside of Paris, they have fewer opportunities to speak them.
Listen to caek, s/he knows what s/he's talking about. It's EU citizens who are ahead of anyone who needs a visa of any kind. Again, I speak as a non-EU citizen (American) who's lived in Europe for 13 years now (11 in France, of which 1 was as a student).
It sounds like you have a good plan — do take some French courses as soon as you can, it will really help. Oh and, also keep in mind... housing in Paris has never been more expensive than it is now. An unholy combination of changing tax and rental laws has caused housing costs to spike this year (rentals included).
posted by fraula at 12:24 PM on September 20, 2010
What everyone else said about learning French. I work in another big company that supposedly has English as an official language, and it just doesn't work that way. Besides which, official work language or not, you really need to know French to not pull your hair out in frustration here. It also demonstrates - when doing interviews - your level of commitment.
Also really start building your contacts now through LinkedIn, your university, meetup, whatever. It seems everyone I know is out of work or looking for work or perpetually looking for work (CDD).
posted by whatzit at 9:30 AM on September 22, 2010
Also really start building your contacts now through LinkedIn, your university, meetup, whatever. It seems everyone I know is out of work or looking for work or perpetually looking for work (CDD).
posted by whatzit at 9:30 AM on September 22, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dripdripdrop at 8:30 AM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]