Cleanliness is next to Rentedness

September 14, 2010 1:18 PM

Advice on how to gently encourage my soon-to-be former tenant to clean her very messy apartment, so that it will be attractive to prospective renters?

My tenant is leaving at the end of the month, but she has not yet begun to pack - which is not a big deal, I just want to make clear that the mess is not a result of moving madness. She has always been a very messy tenant, with lots and lots of clutter everywhere - clothing, beauty and grooming supplies, papers, empty containers, etc.

These are NOT photos of the actual rooms, but the last several photos here (of dorm rooms) illustrate the level of messiness that we're talking about.

I have not cared in the past as there don't seem to be any pest or vermin problems as a result of the untidiness, but now I've advertised the apartment and have shown it several times to prospective renters. None have showed any interest after seeing the place, which is a marked difference from my past experience renting it - the first two tenants (including current tenant) loved it and signed a lease immediately. But it was empty in the first instance, and very clean in the second.

I always give her at least 24 hours notice. The first time she straightened up a little (a very little) but since then she's not made any effort. She's in grad school and is busy, which I totally understand. I don't want to embarrass or stress her out, but is there any way to encourage her to tidy up?

There is nothing in the lease that discusses this. I have pretty much resigned myself to waiting until she's gone to clean and show the place, but I'm hoping that there's some approach to this that I'm overlooking. Thanks.

posted by CheeseLouise to human relations (25 answers total)

Offer to split the cost of someone to come in and clean up. Suggest that this will help her as much as you, when inspection time comes along and there will be less for her to do.

Or you might eat the cleanup cost as a business expense, if you need to rent the apartment as quickly as possible.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:21 PM on September 14, 2010

You could offer to hire a service to clean it at no cost to her. As long as she's obeying the terms of the lease, I don't think there's anything to do except explain to potential renters beforehand that the current tenant is extremely messy. Do you have photographs of the apartment from before the current tenant? Maybe include those as part of the tour to give prospects a sense of what the place can look like without the piles of stuff everywhere.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 1:23 PM on September 14, 2010

I have just read a book on hoarding behavior (_Stuff_, which was really interesting), so my lens is currently pathology colored.

Regardless of her obligations under the lease, if I were you, I would not expect an apartment on par with the posted photos to get cleaned up until the last minute, and probably after the last minute.

This is a shot in the dark, but you might offer to split the cost of a professional organizer (look for the National Association of Professional Organizers) with her (or, if you're desperate, offer to pay a full fee.) She might jump at it, and you'd get the apartment in shape to show.
posted by endless_forms at 1:30 PM on September 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'll say this as a tenant whose landlord was showing her apartment to prospective buyers -- do not ask her to "declutter" or help you stage the place without offering to pay for storage or cleaning.* While she lives there, it is her home. If you want it staged for showings, then offer to pay for someone to come in and clean/stage it. The cost of a cleaning person is probably much less than the cost of having it empty for some period of time after she's gone and before you can rent it again.

I think you can just approach it as, "Hey, I've had some showings but not much interest. As I'm really trying to minimize the time the apartment is vacant, I wonder if you would allow me to have a professional come in and help clean and stage it for showings?" Accept that she may say no.

[Also, I've never had a lease spell out the condition the apartment needed to be in for showings -- only the terms and conditions under which the landlord can enter the premises for purposes of showings.]

*Our place was never that messy and we kept it tidy for showings, but our landlord wanted us to actually remove some furniture for staging -- but wasn't going to pay to store those things. Um, no.
posted by devinemissk at 1:31 PM on September 14, 2010 [6 favorites]

I think you are being way too nice and accommodating here. Those dorm pictures are disgusting...not wonder you cannot rent it. I'm with desjardins...tell her directly to clean it or at least throw all of her crap in boxes that are neatly stacked.
posted by murrey at 1:33 PM on September 14, 2010

- Stop showing the apartment while someone else lives there. The type of tenant you want (respectful, employed) will NOT find an occupied unit desirable. Flakes will love it though, if it is priced right.

Years of experience tell me this is true. I don't know why. Just is.

- Use her deposit money to hire a professional cleaning service. This is what deposit money is for.

- You can notify her in writing that the unit must be move-in clean upon termination of her tenancy or she will be charged a cleaning fee, which will be performed by a professional service. State that in the event she chooses not to clean the unit herself, you will return her deposit monies minus the cleaning fees with receipt included.

- TAKE PICTURES OF UNIT FOR YOUR RECORDS AFTER SHE VACATES AND BEFORE CLEANING CREW ARRIVES.

- Schedule the cleaning crew for the day after she vacates. Cancel if she leaves the place spotless.

- Post adverts for the vacancy starting ONE WEEK prior to move out. Schedule showings beginning after the cleaning crew finishes. Maybe even plan an Open House?



In other words, your tenant probably won't clean before her lease terminates. It's her space for now, this is her right. Plan accordingly and don't beat your head against the wall in the meantime:)
posted by jbenben at 1:34 PM on September 14, 2010 [26 favorites]

"Hi, I have to take some pics to advertise the place. Is there any chance you can make it look as generic/unlived-in as possible?" or words to that effect. Sort of "It's not your crap, I'd ask the same of anyone."
posted by Biru at 1:36 PM on September 14, 2010

If it really is as messy as the pics, maybe bring it to her as a safety issue, like, "Hey, I'm trying to show the apartment and it's kind of dangerous stepping all over your stuff, it's hard to to show closets when we can't even get to them. Can you maybe clear some pathways?" It might be enough of a hint to help a little.

But aside from that, you may have to wait until she's gone (and suffer losing a month's rent) to get the place clean enough to attract renters. But, if she's anything like I think she is, you'll get that month's rent back in the security deposit she'll have to forfeit because she'll probably leave a lot of crap behind anyway.
posted by NoraCharles at 1:37 PM on September 14, 2010

@NoraCharles: "But, if she's anything like I think she is, you'll get that month's rent back in the security deposit she'll have to forfeit because she'll probably leave a lot of crap behind anyway."

Not if you handle the security deposit appropriately, and use it only for your actual costs in cleaning the apartment after she leaves. You can't take security deposit money as a penalty, you instead have to document the costs associated with the clean up, replacement, painting, etc.

A landlord should never get any money back from a security deposit. The landlord should document their actual costs in cleaning/replacing/etc., and provide that as an accounting for any deductions taken.

(IANAL, etc.)
posted by JakeWalker at 1:43 PM on September 14, 2010 [6 favorites]

jbenben is right on target.

She does have a security deposit right?
posted by Max Power at 1:45 PM on September 14, 2010

My apartment was crazy messy up till 10 days before I had to leave (well, it got progressively less messy, but at 10 days it was a real "hey, this is no worse than anyone else would have, 10 days out!) I was checking those dorm pics to make sure none were of my stuff (I'm not as bad as I was in college... those could have been my dorm rooms, not my last apartment.) Anyway, I kind of speak from her side of the issue.

Offer to put her in touch with a professional organizer, but also come to grips with the fact that you probably can't show the place till a few days after she leaves. It may well take heroic efforts for her to clean, and I bet she's procrastinating like she sincerely hopes there will never be a tomorrow.

I would never sign a lease on an occupied space, incidentally. Other people's stuff is distracting at the best of times.
posted by SMPA at 1:49 PM on September 14, 2010

Also, don't get ahead of yourself here!

Along with cleaning, there are probably a bunch of repairs waiting underneath that clutter... touch-up paint, stopped up drains, faucet leaks, etc. etc.

- Keep a handyman at the ready if you need someone to make repairs. I usually schedule repairs before cleaning, but in a case like this, cleaning first!

- Leave a pad and pen for the cleaning crew. Ask them to write down any obvious repairs they come across, especially plumbing.

- Do your own inspection (testing windows, blinds, lights, faucets and toilets) after cleaning is complete. Put blue painter's tape on any wall needing patch and paint, etc.


Super messy tenants come with lots of corollary issues. Do yearly inspections in the future and put a clause about tidiness on the rider of the next lease. The tidiness clause isn't really enforceable, but it is a good idea to state you expect the property be respected.

Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 1:51 PM on September 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

I can't tell if this is a roommate or someone you're renting a separate place to, but...

I should say that I'm really not uptight about this sort of thing, but I had an EXTREME version of a messy roommate in the past year. So. This worked with him (he was right up there with those dorm room photos, if not worse because it included vermin-attracting garbage): "I can't show your room in the condition that it's in, it's just not realistic to expect anyone to take that room...I'd hate to not be able to give you back your security deposit back because I had to use it to cover the time after you left while the room was in showable condition."

Passive aggressive, maybe. But it worked after having several serious discussions about how since, the door could barely be opened, it was a fire hazard. Also the smell. (I feel bad because he obviously had hoarding/ocd issues, but I do not miss that roommate.)

I did have a line in our roommate agreement (I was the leasholder, roommate was renting from me) about having the room in "showable" condition when they decided to leave and I would give them 24 hours notice before the room was shown.

Do you have a security deposit? Just the threat of "it will be a PITA to get your deposit back from me" may enough to get someone to get their shit in order.
posted by AlisonM at 1:53 PM on September 14, 2010

Seriously, don't show the apartment while someone lives there, no matter how good it looks. It's annoying as Hell to not be able to do something because the landlord wants to show it. Even if you plan a big outing,you can't go home early if it gets canceled or sucks.

I also think the cleanliness clause is a good idea. If I'm remembering right my current lease says that the place has to be clean enough for them to change the filters and do any repairs you ask for.
posted by theichibun at 1:53 PM on September 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

- Use her deposit money to hire a professional cleaning service. This is what deposit money is for.

The security deposit is for actual damages, not for paying for incidental expenses not called for in the lease, which would be a pretty antagonistic action to take (and perhaps even illegal, depending on local laws). If she leaves the apartment as clean and well-kept as she found it, there's no reason to dock her deposit.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:59 PM on September 14, 2010 [11 favorites]

She knows it's a mess. You can either (unemotionally) require her to clean it, or don't and wait until she's gone.

Whether she's just a messy person or whether there's pathology behind her mess, you're not doing anyone favors by hinting, suggesting, leaving her coupons for cleaning services, whatever. Ask for what you want in plain language, but understand that if you required a certain type of cooperation, you should have stipulated it in the lease agreement.

I understand the urge to turn the place over as fast as humanly possible, but I don't really think it's a tenant's obligation to help you do so. Let her move and show it empty and clean, and raise the rent for the next person to include the month or whatever it'll sit empty after they move out.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:02 PM on September 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

Don't bother showing it now. And don't waste money on cleaning it now, or a professional organizer for her. People who live like that generally can't/won't change, at least not without a major intervention and/or crisis. Don't get involved in that nuttiness. Just let her move out, then do the usual landlord thing: assess the space with regards to her security deposit, then get it back to your standards and start over with a clean slate to get it rented.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:03 PM on September 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Thanks everyone. I think I knew the answer already, which is that I'm not going to be able to get it rented and ready for occupancy by the 1st of the month anyway. I do have several photos of the empty apartment in the ads, but it just looks so bad now and it's certainly not going to get better before she moves.

She has showed me some problems already, such as some hair dye splattered on the bathroom ceiling that will need to be painted, etc. So I'm going to wait for her to leave and take the cleaning (if it ends up being necessary) and repairs out of her deposit. And I'll add a tidiness clause in the lease this time.

Thank you!
posted by CheeseLouise at 2:04 PM on September 14, 2010

I moved out of a place at the end of August. My roommate was, among other things, a filthy, stinky hoarder, so I spent as little time as possible there, basically living somewhere else. I had no idea how bad it had gotten without me there to keep the common areas tidy. From previous experience I knew that this guy had a really tough time doing things like packing and moving on his own, even when he was living with people who cleaned up after him, so with a month left to go on my lease I approached my (wonderful, wonderful) landlady with my concerns.

She was trying to show the apartment to new tenants, and (understandably) was having a lot of trouble because the place was such a wreck. She first asked him to put all of his stuff in his own room, which helped some (at least for showing the square footage of the common areas) and she showed only my bedroom, but the stink of dirty dishes in the sink and unwashed clothing was making it unsaleable.

Together we hashed out a plan to get him to start packing and cleaning ASAP to make both of our jobs easier at the end of the month. She called him and point-blank told him that the smell of the apartment was keeping her from showing it, and she was going to send in a cleaning person to do his laundry and clean the kitchen and bathroom. And that she would have to charge him for it. He said he would clean it himself. My job was to make sure he followed through with it, and to call her when I saw him doing laundry.

She supplied him with boxes for him to start packing his things, offered him space in her garage for storing the boxes as he packed them, and even offered to drive his stuff to his new apartment (thankfully it didn't come to that, but it was pretty amazing that she offered). Over the course of about two weeks, the place got to a point where she could start showing it again, and she was able to find new tenants.

When we moved out he ended up leaving a TON of stuff (including a large amount of furniture, books, food, and garbage) behind in the apartment with no explanation. My landlady (again, a wonderful, wonderful woman) told me not to worry about it, and that she knew she would have to hire a cleaning service anyway to get it into a liveable state. I just got the security deposit (it was in my name) back for the entire amount, so I don't know if she took the cleaning stuff up with him directly or just called it a wash.

It was a horrible, disgusting, frustrating, and stressful experience for me, and I'm so glad it's over. I'm sure it was no picnic for my landlady either. What ended up working for us was helping the stinky roommate to gradually transition to a tidier lifestyle and out of the apartment through constant monitoring. I think the key with the hoarder types is to do it slowly. For our situation, the main thing was getting rid of the smell (oh god, the smell). If that's not an issue for you, you might want to approach it from an ability-to-see-the-square-footage angle.

For what it's worth, she was able to move people in just a few days after we moved out, so it is doable.

Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 2:34 PM on September 14, 2010

Just to chime in with what a few other people have said - my lease (or maybe the rider) has a specific section on showings. I can't remember the exact language, but it says that if showings are being impacted by the cleanliness of the apartment, we'll have either a few days to clean or will be liable for a reasonable cleaning fee.
posted by heyforfour at 2:47 PM on September 14, 2010

Every apartment I've ever rented had a clause in it that stated that the apartment had to be kept clean, tidy and free of garbage at all times. Of course I was messy as hell but any time I knew someone would be coming by (as the landlord has to give notice), I'd tidy it on up. Maybe for future tenants you should add a clause like this.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 3:09 PM on September 14, 2010

Nobody reasonable (i.e. someone to whom you want to rent the apartment) is going to want this apartment even if she manages to dig out pathways as someone suggested earlier. You may know there are no vermin issues, but as a potential renter, I would not be inclined to believe you if you said that to me, seeing that level of mess. Furthermore, I certainly would not be inclined to wait around for someone to move out, the apartment to be cleaned, and the necessary repairs be made. I would simply move on to the next listing, unless you were offering the deal of a lifetime.

You can offer to clean and "stage" it for her, but don't be surprised if she says no. If she was not soon to be vacating, I would suggest scheduling an inspection*, but it's probably not worth the hassle at this point. I think you may just need to prepare for a week or two of vacancy after she's gone so you can restore the place.

* Apartment inspections and other scheduled apartment entries always induced panicked cleaning sessions for me and a former boyfriend. We are not horrifically messy on our own, but together we were messy enough that we'd have been embarrassed letting our landlady see the place as was. Neither of us are hoarders/at this level, though.
posted by asciident at 3:59 PM on September 14, 2010

I certainly would not be inclined to wait around for someone to move out, the apartment to be cleaned, and the necessary repairs be made.

This is how I feel about renting, too, for what it's worth. If I'm shown a place that isn't already ready-to-move-in, I move on. The vibe that I get from these kinds of showings is that the landlord is more interested in getting the lease signed ASAP and getting those rent checks flowing than in being a good landlord and taking care of things like repairs, making sure the place is in good move-in condition, etc. Over the years, I've been shown apartments, condos, and houses with water stains in the ceiling ("We already fixed the leaks, don't worry about it"), holes in the walls ("I figure you can just hang a picture over that") and pet odor ("You might want to leave the windows open for the first few months"), and I thanked them politely and moved on to the next listing. I'm a responsible tenant and I don't make things difficult for my landlords, but I want to be assured that if problems do come up, the landlord will be on top of it, even if it's going to cost them a little money.
posted by Gator at 4:21 PM on September 14, 2010 [4 favorites]

I'm currently a landlord to one tenant; formerly a serial tenant.

Your tenant would have to do a huge amount of organizing in order to make the apartment presentable -- and her idea of "orderly" will definitely not match yours. Also, I agree that it's her home, and she has no obligation to change the way she lives so you can find her replacement quickly.

I truly believe it's best to wait for a tenant to move out before showing the place. No matter how much notice you give, showing an occupied unit is almost always an imposition on whoever is living there. And it's very difficult for many apartment-lookers to see beyond even little things like socks on the floor or a messy bathroom counter. I used to feel uncomfortable just walking into an occupied for-rent unit when I was looking for a place to live.

Also, the prospective tenant uses the condition of the empty apartment to judge your standards for maintaining the place -- and to make guesses about your expectations for your tenants. If you show a messy place, you'll turn off people who like order and cleanliness.

I know you want to waste no time in finding a new person to take the place. That makes perfect sense. But youll be much better of if you just wait till the woman is gone. You'll get more interest in the place, and you'll be able to select on the basis of references, credit ratings, and employment. Take a tax write-off on the time the unit is unoccupied. Clean the carpets and walls, touch up the paint where it's needed, get the place as attractive as you can, and then place your ad.
posted by wryly at 7:10 PM on September 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

Sounds like you have already figured out how to handle this situation. I just wanted to offer some thoughts for you on the next time around. I just moved out of a place - for the most part we were not nearly as messy as those rooms you showed (except the basement, that was a disaster), but it really hadn't gotten a deep cleaning in the two years that we'd been there. Here's how our landlord handled it:

We let him know that we were leaving about two months before our lease was up. (Weren't legally required to but since we knew by then we thought it was the right thing to do.) He let us know that he'd like to start showing the place in the month before the lease was up, and we could either clean it ourselves, or he could hire cleaners and take it out of our deposit. We opted to clean it ourselves and let him know that. A few days later, he showed up with a big bucket of cleaning supplies and random boxes for packing.

As a bunch of broke grad students, we appreciated the supplies, and we appreciated that he outlined his (quite reasonable) expectations in a polite way. We also appreciated that he set up a single two-hour-long open house, and pretty much said, yeah, I need you guys to make the house look as nice as you can, but just for that day. That helped a lot. There was no way we were going to put that much effort into tidying the place up over and over again, but once wasn't really a problem.
posted by mandanza at 12:22 AM on September 15, 2010