Anyone know of University of the Arts in Philadelphia?
September 12, 2010 1:40 PM Subscribe
Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of The University of the Arts in Philadelphia, PA? Specifically, the music department? Are the academics really awful?
My son plays the guitar and is a senior in high school, looking at colleges now. We're looking at liberal arts schools (e.g. Clark U. in
Worcester, Goucher in Maryland), but he also wants to see if there are any appealing music programs in specialty arts schools. Berklee would be an obvious choice, but there are virtually no girls there. And we LIKE girls.
Any info much appreciated.
My son plays the guitar and is a senior in high school, looking at colleges now. We're looking at liberal arts schools (e.g. Clark U. in
Worcester, Goucher in Maryland), but he also wants to see if there are any appealing music programs in specialty arts schools. Berklee would be an obvious choice, but there are virtually no girls there. And we LIKE girls.
Any info much appreciated.
My old drummer and bassist both went to UArts for the combined BFA/MEd program. They're both eminently capable musicians who improved a lot during their time there. They're both enjoying a fair amount of success now, in addition to having MEd degrees to fall back on in the event that they want more stable income.
posted by The White Hat at 2:02 PM on September 12, 2010
posted by The White Hat at 2:02 PM on September 12, 2010
Best answer: You don't go to Berklee for girls; you go because it's in a very college-kid-heavy end of Boston, and the girls are all over the area, going to other schools where the men are not going to rock star school.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:19 PM on September 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 2:19 PM on September 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
I would not let "no girls at Berklee" be a deterrent. That's what Emerson is for. Just as Berklee is for boys when you are a girl studying film/screenwriting/performance/whatever at Emerson.
posted by Sara C. at 2:33 PM on September 12, 2010
posted by Sara C. at 2:33 PM on September 12, 2010
Response by poster: Fascinating, about Berklee. And U of the Arts. thank you!
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:54 PM on September 12, 2010
posted by DMelanogaster at 3:54 PM on September 12, 2010
My SO got his BFA there twenty years ago. He found the general academics adequate, and had some really terrific art instructors. One advantage of a school like UArts over some of the more prestigious art schools is that the concentrations are less rigid (and not generally arranged around the ego of the prof.) For instance, my SO majored in painting but was working in mixed-media by his senior year, though certainly from a painterly background perspective. Some programs would have rejected much of his thesis work, despite his ability to elucidate its relevance.
Of course, if he hates UArts, Philly does have a whole of universities.
But rejecting Berklee for the lack of girls seems ludicrous. Does he want to study music or not? Surely he doesn't think that Boston lacks college-age women?
posted by desuetude at 4:31 PM on September 12, 2010
Of course, if he hates UArts, Philly does have a whole of universities.
But rejecting Berklee for the lack of girls seems ludicrous. Does he want to study music or not? Surely he doesn't think that Boston lacks college-age women?
posted by desuetude at 4:31 PM on September 12, 2010
You didn't say what kind of guitar your son plays. If he's a pop/rock/commercial guitar player, Berklee has a great program for those kinds of things, and you should ignore the rest of my post. If he's a jazz or a classical guitar player, I strongly recommend looking at my alma mater: Lawrence University.
Lawrence has a strong liberal arts program as well as a full-fledged Conservatory of Music (they offer BA and BM degrees). Also, they are the second-oldest coeducational institution in the country, so: women. A friend of mine works in the admissions department, and I'd be happy to put you in touch with him if you're interested.
posted by sleepinglion at 4:45 PM on September 12, 2010
Lawrence has a strong liberal arts program as well as a full-fledged Conservatory of Music (they offer BA and BM degrees). Also, they are the second-oldest coeducational institution in the country, so: women. A friend of mine works in the admissions department, and I'd be happy to put you in touch with him if you're interested.
posted by sleepinglion at 4:45 PM on September 12, 2010
I transferred out of the screenwriting program at UArts (to the compsci program at Temple) in my sophomore year...
Because the academics were fucking atrocious. We're talking at-or-below community college level. Even the things taught by full professors (as opposed to the revolving cast of adjuncts), like English lit, were embarrassingly sloppy. And gods help you if you want to study any science or mathematics. My calculus prof actually had us fill out our grades at the end, because he was too lazy to grade a two-month backlog of homework. This isn't to say that the profs themselves were necessarily fools, but that 98% of the students in the liberal arts classes had no interest in them whatsoever, and so the expectations for the classes were extremely, painfully lax.
But, the music department was excellent. And I know a number of really wonderful composition and performance students who learned a great deal from their studies at UArts.
If the kid's really, genuinely interested in spending four years of his life eating and breathing music, then UArts is probably a very good fit. But, if he wants training in guitar, but to receive an otherwise well-rounded education, he should look elsewhere.
posted by Netzapper at 5:58 PM on September 12, 2010
Because the academics were fucking atrocious. We're talking at-or-below community college level. Even the things taught by full professors (as opposed to the revolving cast of adjuncts), like English lit, were embarrassingly sloppy. And gods help you if you want to study any science or mathematics. My calculus prof actually had us fill out our grades at the end, because he was too lazy to grade a two-month backlog of homework. This isn't to say that the profs themselves were necessarily fools, but that 98% of the students in the liberal arts classes had no interest in them whatsoever, and so the expectations for the classes were extremely, painfully lax.
But, the music department was excellent. And I know a number of really wonderful composition and performance students who learned a great deal from their studies at UArts.
If the kid's really, genuinely interested in spending four years of his life eating and breathing music, then UArts is probably a very good fit. But, if he wants training in guitar, but to receive an otherwise well-rounded education, he should look elsewhere.
posted by Netzapper at 5:58 PM on September 12, 2010
I was in a circle of friends that was very involved in UArts in the mid to late 90s - Many of them attended there. Of the 8 or so people that attended, 2 actually graduated, and neither went on to a career based on their degree. That I know of, the only one that did go on to the career they pursued at UArts did so *despite* the poor performance of the school - other people would have quit out of despair.
Common issues reported by attendees were a lack of caring among the professors and staff; the view from some professors that they were teaching potential rivals in their own fields, and thus not giving a complete education; inadequate facilities and lessons in areas outside the arts (i.e. - Math, any Sciences, and a complete lack of physical education in any form, including even a gym to exercise in). In the above mentioned case, the billing department screwed up horribly and made repeated and gross mistakes in mailing out notices to a student, and then refused to admit they were at fault when presented with hard evidence that they had mailed said notices to the wrong address.
This was a good 15 years ago, but it was common during the 5 years I hung out with people who attended UArts.
In my own experience, I wanted to go to an Engineering school, and ALMOST went to Virginia Tech. At the last moment, my mom convinced me to attend another school with a broader scope of study, in the event I decided I didn't like Engineering. I am glad she did - 2 years into the program, I nearly failed out, and wound up transferring to Theater Arts instead. Had I attended a more focused school, I may not have had that opportunity. The wider diversity of a college can be a major benefit over a school that excels in a narrow area, if you should suddenly find you don't want to pursue your original goal after a few years of study.
posted by GJSchaller at 6:43 PM on September 12, 2010
Common issues reported by attendees were a lack of caring among the professors and staff; the view from some professors that they were teaching potential rivals in their own fields, and thus not giving a complete education; inadequate facilities and lessons in areas outside the arts (i.e. - Math, any Sciences, and a complete lack of physical education in any form, including even a gym to exercise in). In the above mentioned case, the billing department screwed up horribly and made repeated and gross mistakes in mailing out notices to a student, and then refused to admit they were at fault when presented with hard evidence that they had mailed said notices to the wrong address.
This was a good 15 years ago, but it was common during the 5 years I hung out with people who attended UArts.
In my own experience, I wanted to go to an Engineering school, and ALMOST went to Virginia Tech. At the last moment, my mom convinced me to attend another school with a broader scope of study, in the event I decided I didn't like Engineering. I am glad she did - 2 years into the program, I nearly failed out, and wound up transferring to Theater Arts instead. Had I attended a more focused school, I may not have had that opportunity. The wider diversity of a college can be a major benefit over a school that excels in a narrow area, if you should suddenly find you don't want to pursue your original goal after a few years of study.
posted by GJSchaller at 6:43 PM on September 12, 2010
Response by poster: I personally don't think it's a great idea for him to go to a music program that's specifically for people who want to be professional musicians (i.e., to go to trade school). He plays rock and a little jazz. He might want to be a psychologist or go to law school. He doesn't really know yet (perfectly reasonable position for a 17-year-old, in my opinion).
He's very intellectually capable and the kind of person who loves to engage in philosophical discussions, discussions about literature, etc. I think he's a liberal arts college person by nature.
But he thought he might want to explore music programs, just to see. So I was asking to see if the one in Phila. was just *too* atrocious academically for us to consider, and it sounds as if it is. Don't know about Berklee, but what I"m reading suggests that the academics there are basically filler.
posted by DMelanogaster at 8:01 PM on September 12, 2010
He's very intellectually capable and the kind of person who loves to engage in philosophical discussions, discussions about literature, etc. I think he's a liberal arts college person by nature.
But he thought he might want to explore music programs, just to see. So I was asking to see if the one in Phila. was just *too* atrocious academically for us to consider, and it sounds as if it is. Don't know about Berklee, but what I"m reading suggests that the academics there are basically filler.
posted by DMelanogaster at 8:01 PM on September 12, 2010
He plays rock and a little jazz. He might want to be a psychologist or go to law school. He doesn't really know yet (perfectly reasonable position for a 17-year-old, in my opinion).
UArts is not the place for him, then. It just isn't. It's for kids who know, deep in their bones, that they want to dance, or paint, or sing. If he thinks a BFA might be a step along the way to a professional degree, UArts is going to terribly handicap him.
Has he looked at Oberlin? Top-notch academics, and a fine music program.
posted by Netzapper at 8:10 PM on September 12, 2010
UArts is not the place for him, then. It just isn't. It's for kids who know, deep in their bones, that they want to dance, or paint, or sing. If he thinks a BFA might be a step along the way to a professional degree, UArts is going to terribly handicap him.
Has he looked at Oberlin? Top-notch academics, and a fine music program.
posted by Netzapper at 8:10 PM on September 12, 2010
I think your instinct that he should focus on a more balanced liberal arts school is a very good one. As an undergrad in a top conservatory composition department, I was fulfilled musically but miserably unfulfilled intellectually. There are always workarounds (I hung with smart grad students and did a lot of independent studies outside my department), but a globally fulfilling environment is clearly better except for students who genuinely have a laser focus on their development as musicians.
When I'm asked now, I tend to strongly steer students away from specializing that narrowly, at least for their undergrad work.
posted by kalapierson at 12:44 AM on September 13, 2010
When I'm asked now, I tend to strongly steer students away from specializing that narrowly, at least for their undergrad work.
posted by kalapierson at 12:44 AM on September 13, 2010
I graduated from UArts in 2005 with a BFA. I had some really amazing professors and took several really great classes, both in the liberal arts and fine arts departments. What's great about UArts is the flexibility within each discipline. Students are given the opportunity to explore as many different mediums and methods of art-making as they want while they are there-- your son could take pottery classes, if he wants to. Having access to all of the facilities and equipment, as well as the professors and students from other disciplines, is exciting and inspiring.
However, this way of learning does tend to work out better for people who are a little more independent and self-guided. I saw a lot of people flounder.
It is definitely true that UArts puts a much greater emphasis on artistic talent than academic excellence from admissions all the way through graduation. I think Netzapper is correct in saying that even when you get a good liberal arts professor, the quality of the class is diminished by the lack of interest/enthusiasm of the students.
My take is that UArts gives you a well-rounded arts education, not a well-rounded liberal arts education.
posted by reBaker at 5:54 AM on September 13, 2010
However, this way of learning does tend to work out better for people who are a little more independent and self-guided. I saw a lot of people flounder.
It is definitely true that UArts puts a much greater emphasis on artistic talent than academic excellence from admissions all the way through graduation. I think Netzapper is correct in saying that even when you get a good liberal arts professor, the quality of the class is diminished by the lack of interest/enthusiasm of the students.
My take is that UArts gives you a well-rounded arts education, not a well-rounded liberal arts education.
posted by reBaker at 5:54 AM on September 13, 2010
Based on your follow-up, I would advise against most conservatory programs as well, then, for the reasons kalapeirson mentions. The universities that are "famous" for their conservatory music programs expect you to be quite narrowly devoted to the program. If he were to switch majors, he'd be locked out of the more intensive music classes.
Look for good liberal-arts schools with a well-respected music program.
posted by desuetude at 6:56 AM on September 13, 2010
Look for good liberal-arts schools with a well-respected music program.
posted by desuetude at 6:56 AM on September 13, 2010
More secondhand information: My brother very recently completed his MFA at UArts and, though he did meet some great professors and fellow students, he regularly complains that the school doesn't seem to do much for their alumni.
posted by smirkyfodder at 7:03 AM on September 13, 2010
posted by smirkyfodder at 7:03 AM on September 13, 2010
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posted by Ideal Impulse at 1:58 PM on September 12, 2010