Comments on: Automotive woes. In need of guru.

Question: Automotive woes. In need of guru.

gummo — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:32:59 -0800

I need an automotive guru. I'm losing my mind. See if these symptoms add up to anything to you. I've got a wobble in the front end. Here's what I know so far...(it's a bit of a saga) If you figure it out, I'll buy you a beer.

1. My 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee was in need of brakes. Got a brake job done at a cheap brakes only type place. About 1000 miles later, I had what felt like a warped rotor. There was a pulsation only when braking, and it varied with speed. I took it back to the brake place, and I did have warped front rotors. They also said there was a Tech Service Bulletin stating that I might have bad calipers, which could cause pulsation. They wanted $500. I don't believe in coincedences. These same calipers have been fine for 70000 miles. Only after my brake job do I now have brake problems. No dice. I had them turn the rotors and I left. The same prob returned. The brake place blamed my calipers again, but I only let them turn my rotors again. (I also had new shocks put on since I needed them anyway and bad shocks were a potential culprit, I was told.) The prob returned and I took the car to Jeep Service. They said the prob was bad aftermarket pads causing excessive heat which was warping my rotors, and that my calipers were fine. They put factory spec pads on, turned the rotors again, and the problem has not returned for over 2000 miles.

2. I got new tires about 2 weeks later just cuz it was time. Discount Tire, who have always been GREAT to me and my family. Everything was fine for a couple days. Then I had what felt like an unbalanced tire. This wobble was always at 45-50 mph. Braking had no effect, and the problem disappeared above or below that speed. (The warped rotor was definitely noticable all the way down to 0 mph). I took the tires in for balance. They said they were out 2 ounces, balanced them, and I left. The prob seemed to go away. Then a couple days later it returned. I took it back, the tires were out of balance again, 2 ounces. After a rebalance, they were fine again. Couple days later, the wobble returned, but it seemed to be intermittent, and to return almost right away. At that point, I started to think my judgement was less than perfect. Every little bump in the road felt like my crazy tires out of balance. I took the car back, they offered new tires, same brand, and I accepted. They also 'ride-balanced' the tires (a lot better I guess). The problem returned. The tire place said they would do anything I wanted, but they didn't believe it was my tires anymore. They recommended I have the front end and allignment checked out. Each time, however, they told me my tires are out of balance, and I found it hard to believe that alignment could screw up my tires in a day or two, by making them out of balance. I didn't know what to do, so I had them replace the tires with brand new tires of a different brand (Yokohama). The problem returned.

3. I took the jeep into an auto shop recommended by the tire place. They checked out the alignment and the front end parts (steering stabilizer, etc... whatever). They said there was nothing wrong with anything in the front of my jeep as far as they can tell.

So that's where I'm at. I have an intermittent wobble. Mostly at 45-50 mph. Sometimes I think I can feel it faster than that. A faster vibration. That could be my imagination at this point. Sometimes everything is perfect, sometimes the wobble is so pronounced that it shakes the steering wheel side to side an inch or more. (Side to side, as in the wheel rotates like when turning. Not as in the steering column moves side to side)

Any ideas? I'm at a loss.

By: weapons-grade pandemonium

weapons-grade pandemonium — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:50:22 -0800

Worn sway bars maybe. Or the brake shop messed something up, maybe lifting the car. They can also strip wheel bolts using the gun instead of starting by hand. Get a recommendation for a good, trustworthy mechanic in your area. Google Groups can be helpful.

By: veedubya

veedubya — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:50:56 -0800

I had something similar with an old (very old) mini. Turned out to be the engine misfiring because of a cracked distributor cap.

I'd guess that your Jeep has electronic ignition, making it very reliable in that regard, but you might want to check that you haven't got a split in an HT lead.

By: headspace

headspace — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:50:59 -0800

Have someone check the tie rod ends. We had exactly the same 45-50mph wobble of varying intensities, and it was a broken tie rod end.

By: saladin

saladin — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:55:05 -0800

I had a similar problem on my '76 BMW 2002, and the culprit ended up being a variety of bad bearings, which all failed nearly simultaneously. Replace your wheel bearings if they're never been repleaced, and if the front suspension uses McPherson struts, replace the upper strut bearings, too.

Good luck!

By: Lactoso

Lactoso — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:02:31 -0800

You've probably checked this already, but how about the wheel bearings or the ball joints? Both are integral to the steering and 'feel'. Tie rod ends could also be the culprit. Fortunately you can easily check all of these things out right in your driveway (if you're so inclined). To check the wheel bearings, jack one side of the front up until the wheel isn't touching the ground (take all necessary safety precautions, e-brake on, chock the rear tires, notify next of kin, etc., etc..). Then firmly grab the tire at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions and shake it. Any play in the wheel bearings will be readily apparent (although a *tiny* amount is normal. To check the ball joints, grab the tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and shake. There should be no play whatsoever.
To check the TREs (Tie Rod Ends), lower the front end until the tire is solidly on the ground and then have someone turn the steering wheel slowly back and forth while you observe the tie rod (the bar that goes between the two knuckles over the axle) and pitman arm (the bar/arm/thingie that goes from your steering box to one of the knuckles). Any play will be apparent.

Hope this helps.

By: Kellydamnit

Kellydamnit — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:05:23 -0800

I had a similar problem in my 93 Corolla. It turned out to be the wheel bearings .

By: Lactoso

Lactoso — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:07:11 -0800

Oops, forgot to mention that in 2000, ChryCo changed from steel to composite rotors on the Chero and the Grand Chero. They look similar and I have gotten the wrong part from the dealer in the past. Aside from the physical properties of the steel vs. composite, they have slightly different dimensions as well.

Oh, and I'm not sure if the '99 GC had a steering stabilizer (looks like a little shock absorber connected between the tie rod and the axle or frame, but that could be worn as well. I'd check the TREs, ball joints and bearings first though, as the steering stabilizer will only mask those issues if they're bad.

By: Instrumental

Instrumental — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:29:58 -0800

I would think all of the front end parts (tie rods, ball joints, etc.) were easily checked out by the last shop you went to. If they found nothing, you might need to move on to more subtle issues.

Is it possible the problem is in the driveline? There are a lot of joints and shafts in 4WD. Does getting slightly on and off the accelerator change the problem (while its ocurring)?

A friend had an older Cherokee that vibrated at EVERY speed until he replaced numerous driveline parts.

By: weapons-grade pandemonium

weapons-grade pandemonium — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:59:52 -0800

Here's just the first hit on Google Groups

By: gummo

gummo — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:05:18 -0800

It sounds as if I need to take this thing into Jeep again. I kinda thought that the last shop I went to would have checked the above mentioned stuff (TREs, bearings, ball joints, etc...) but maybe they didn't. They seemed like more of an alignment place. Thanks very much for the info though.

I never thought I'd say it, but I think I miss the old days when I had a beat up old truck that was simple enough for me to work on.

By: 445supermag

445supermag — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:51:11 -0800

You might check for a mildly bent rim, tires are usually balanced under a cover where the mechanic can't see the wheel spin. If its full time 4x4 you might check the universal joints (or cv joints). If its part time, you check to make sure the hubs are unlocking (I assume that it has automatic hubs) I have accidentally driven at highway speeds with the hubs locked in, but the transfer case in 2wd and gotten a wobble.