Computer autopsy
September 11, 2010 3:14 PM Subscribe
What is the most likely cause of death for my buddies PC . . . and is a resurrection possible?
My friend has a Shuttle K45 cube, E5200 processor, DDR2 800 RAM. When it is plugged in, a little red light comes on the mobo, and some capacitors and resistors get warm, but that's it. Lots of PCs have a little start-up whir on the fan when you give them AC, but not this one. Hard drives do not spin up; obviously no video of any kind. It could be one of many things. Which of the following do you think is most likely and what kind of remedy would you prescribe. (1) Bad power switch or short. (2) Toasted power supply. ($40 on eBay). (3) Toased mobo, although I don't see anything like electrolyte leaking from capacitors. (4) Bad processor or RAM. (5) Something else I haven't thought of.
According to my friend the computer was working fine, and then one morning it gave a half-hearted attempt to start up, and then after that it gave up the ghost. No beeps, no boops. There was no electrical storm. It was not moved from where it was when it was working fine.
Unfortunately I can't test the processor, RAM, or mobo because I don't have any socket 775 PCs nor do I have machines that use DDR2. I know very little about hardware, but I know that you know a lot! Thanks in advance for any advice.
My friend has a Shuttle K45 cube, E5200 processor, DDR2 800 RAM. When it is plugged in, a little red light comes on the mobo, and some capacitors and resistors get warm, but that's it. Lots of PCs have a little start-up whir on the fan when you give them AC, but not this one. Hard drives do not spin up; obviously no video of any kind. It could be one of many things. Which of the following do you think is most likely and what kind of remedy would you prescribe. (1) Bad power switch or short. (2) Toasted power supply. ($40 on eBay). (3) Toased mobo, although I don't see anything like electrolyte leaking from capacitors. (4) Bad processor or RAM. (5) Something else I haven't thought of.
According to my friend the computer was working fine, and then one morning it gave a half-hearted attempt to start up, and then after that it gave up the ghost. No beeps, no boops. There was no electrical storm. It was not moved from where it was when it was working fine.
Unfortunately I can't test the processor, RAM, or mobo because I don't have any socket 775 PCs nor do I have machines that use DDR2. I know very little about hardware, but I know that you know a lot! Thanks in advance for any advice.
Response by poster: Yeah, I kind of agree with you. So I guess what I'm asking is would a rational person drop $40-50 on a power supply for this box when something like this is only $80.
posted by Crotalus at 3:29 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by Crotalus at 3:29 PM on September 11, 2010
I agree it's extremely likely to be power supply related - you could confirm this by borrowing a PS from another computer.
In 20 yrs I have had exactly ONE mobo fry out with similar symptoms to what you're describing when (as I recall) some plastic fused into a circuit/solder point but every other time it was PS.
posted by victors at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2010
In 20 yrs I have had exactly ONE mobo fry out with similar symptoms to what you're describing when (as I recall) some plastic fused into a circuit/solder point but every other time it was PS.
posted by victors at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2010
Do you hear any beeps at all when you turn it on?
posted by jeffamaphone at 3:56 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by jeffamaphone at 3:56 PM on September 11, 2010
Oh no beeps. N\m. Try a new power supply. Anything else probably isn't worth replacing.
posted by jeffamaphone at 3:57 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by jeffamaphone at 3:57 PM on September 11, 2010
I've given this advice in other threads and sometimes it works for situations like these. Have your friend unplug the computer from the wall and hold in the power button for 1 minute. Try starting it up again.
posted by talkingmuffin at 4:39 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by talkingmuffin at 4:39 PM on September 11, 2010
Response by poster: It is a dinky 100w power supply.
posted by Crotalus at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by Crotalus at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2010
The "startup whir" you mention when plugging in the power is the power supply doing a self-test. If there's no whir, then the power supply is toast.
posted by cathoo at 5:01 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by cathoo at 5:01 PM on September 11, 2010
Have you checked the bios battery?
posted by figment of my conation at 10:35 PM on September 11, 2010
posted by figment of my conation at 10:35 PM on September 11, 2010
FWIW, my experience is that 90% of problems are connector related.
My first approach would be to thoroughly re-seat ANYTHING that looks like a connector.
Next disconnect the hard drive. If anything wants to fail, it's a hard drive. Disconnect any non-essential thing in the box (like a CD drive, etc.) Retest and see if the symptoms change. You should be able to get into the BIOS even with the HDD out, thus verifying the MB.
If the minimalist configuration doesn't work, then you are left with MB failure, PS failure or RAM problems. If there are two RAM sticks, try removing one, then the other, re-testing each time.
I think your power switch is fine. The symptom doesn't sound like a power switch, particularly if there is ANY sign of response to pressing it.
Last, borrow a volt meter. Check the power supply voltages with the MB connectors disconnected. You should see some 5V and 12V supplies. There's a pinout online somewhere for the MB power connectors that should take you 10 seconds to locate.
posted by FauxScot at 8:08 AM on September 12, 2010
My first approach would be to thoroughly re-seat ANYTHING that looks like a connector.
Next disconnect the hard drive. If anything wants to fail, it's a hard drive. Disconnect any non-essential thing in the box (like a CD drive, etc.) Retest and see if the symptoms change. You should be able to get into the BIOS even with the HDD out, thus verifying the MB.
If the minimalist configuration doesn't work, then you are left with MB failure, PS failure or RAM problems. If there are two RAM sticks, try removing one, then the other, re-testing each time.
I think your power switch is fine. The symptom doesn't sound like a power switch, particularly if there is ANY sign of response to pressing it.
Last, borrow a volt meter. Check the power supply voltages with the MB connectors disconnected. You should see some 5V and 12V supplies. There's a pinout online somewhere for the MB power connectors that should take you 10 seconds to locate.
posted by FauxScot at 8:08 AM on September 12, 2010
100W? You can definitely get away with some super-cheap units then, if you're willing to take a risk. Newegg has 250W supply for $17 shipped, although at that price there's a slim chance of it being dead on arrival. You can get an RMA and exchange it if that happens, but then it begins to eat into your time.
Hell, keep an eye on Craigslist and you can probably find some low-wattage power supplies for free. Maybe even hit up some local computer repair shops?
posted by truex at 8:55 AM on September 12, 2010
Hell, keep an eye on Craigslist and you can probably find some low-wattage power supplies for free. Maybe even hit up some local computer repair shops?
posted by truex at 8:55 AM on September 12, 2010
If it's a 100w PSU I would assume that it was running most of time at near capacity, so I would think it's most likely the PSU. I would go with a larger wattage if possible, 250-300w, to hopefully prolong the life of the PSU.
posted by dozo at 9:44 AM on September 12, 2010
posted by dozo at 9:44 AM on September 12, 2010
OP can probably confirm, but my guess is that as it's a Shuttle, the PSU is a specific form factor to fit the case and so a generic and/or larger one will probably not physically fit.
Although if you're looking for a diagnosis, borrow a regular PSU if you can and see if the mobo powers up with it -- that would at least give some idea if it's worth shelling out for an official replacement.
(When my Shuttle died it was indeed the PSU; I blagged one from work to try out and it booted fine. But as it was (a) several years old, and (b) always ran a little noisier and hotter than I liked, I took it as a time-to-build-a-new-PC sign.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:05 PM on September 12, 2010
Although if you're looking for a diagnosis, borrow a regular PSU if you can and see if the mobo powers up with it -- that would at least give some idea if it's worth shelling out for an official replacement.
(When my Shuttle died it was indeed the PSU; I blagged one from work to try out and it booted fine. But as it was (a) several years old, and (b) always ran a little noisier and hotter than I liked, I took it as a time-to-build-a-new-PC sign.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:05 PM on September 12, 2010
I have a K45 I use as my home media server. I had to RMA it for a similar problem (I'm guessing your friend made sure it was out of warranty?). My fans, however, DID spin up, but no POST (or anything at all, really) after that. I tested my PSU with a cheap tester, and it checked out ok (but, for $4.99 for the tester, I'm never SURE about a positive result). My problem was most likely the Mobo, BUT when I received it back from Shuttle they had replaced both the Mobo and PSU (and off course didn't tell me what exactly had tested bad).
Since the PSU fans are not spinning, up, my first guess would be a dead PSU. Can you snag a PSU out of another computer temporarily, and hook it up to the board (outside of the case, obviously, since a standard ATX PSU is about half the size of the entire damned thing!). You should be able to power it up and see if the board is toast. From what I've read, the PSUs in the KPCs are not the best quality, and are prone to failure.
If you determine that it IS the PSU, one recommendation one be to switch to a DC-DC ATX converter and a notebook-style power brick. Should last a lot longer, and no fan noise as a bonus! If my power supply ever conks out (out of warranty, of course), that's the route I'm going. You can get the converter and a 102W power adapter for about $70 from Mini-Box.
posted by XcentricOrbit at 12:21 PM on September 13, 2010
Since the PSU fans are not spinning, up, my first guess would be a dead PSU. Can you snag a PSU out of another computer temporarily, and hook it up to the board (outside of the case, obviously, since a standard ATX PSU is about half the size of the entire damned thing!). You should be able to power it up and see if the board is toast. From what I've read, the PSUs in the KPCs are not the best quality, and are prone to failure.
If you determine that it IS the PSU, one recommendation one be to switch to a DC-DC ATX converter and a notebook-style power brick. Should last a lot longer, and no fan noise as a bonus! If my power supply ever conks out (out of warranty, of course), that's the route I'm going. You can get the converter and a 102W power adapter for about $70 from Mini-Box.
posted by XcentricOrbit at 12:21 PM on September 13, 2010
Oh, and as for why a rational person (I'm not POSITIVE I qualify, but close enough, right?) might want to keep it and drop $60-70 on fixing it...
I personally like the design; it's got just enough expandability for me, it has very low power usage for my setup (35W Celeron CPU and WD green series harddrives FTW!), and it's whisper quiet (even without the DC-DC PSU upgrade; mine DOES have the Ice Genie CPU cooler upgrade, though).
Shuttle's customer service has also been very good to me (for this purchase and previous ones; I didn't even have to pay shipping to RMA it and fight for reimbursement later, and they got it back to me in less than 2 weeks from the day I shipped it out; not great, but not horrible for a standard warranty).
Most cheap small form factor cases are going to run into the same problems (mostly because of heat build-up). So a year from now, he might be looking to replace the PSU in that $80 Foxconn case. I'm guessing that one isn't a standard size either!
posted by XcentricOrbit at 12:35 PM on September 13, 2010
I personally like the design; it's got just enough expandability for me, it has very low power usage for my setup (35W Celeron CPU and WD green series harddrives FTW!), and it's whisper quiet (even without the DC-DC PSU upgrade; mine DOES have the Ice Genie CPU cooler upgrade, though).
Shuttle's customer service has also been very good to me (for this purchase and previous ones; I didn't even have to pay shipping to RMA it and fight for reimbursement later, and they got it back to me in less than 2 weeks from the day I shipped it out; not great, but not horrible for a standard warranty).
Most cheap small form factor cases are going to run into the same problems (mostly because of heat build-up). So a year from now, he might be looking to replace the PSU in that $80 Foxconn case. I'm guessing that one isn't a standard size either!
posted by XcentricOrbit at 12:35 PM on September 13, 2010
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posted by benzo8 at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2010