Homeless or incarcerated?

March 17, 2005 10:27 PM

I live in a city with a fairly high homeless population, and sometimes I wonder why the *really* destitute people (those seemingly beyond any help) don't just commit a crime bad enough that they would get put in jail for several years, where they would at least receive 3 meals a day, regular lodging, medical attention and the chance to learn some sort of skill or get a GED or something. I imagine a great majority of the homeless have a drug and/or alcohol addiction that they realize couldn't continue in prison, but is that the driving factor? If you were beyond hope and had to choose to either be homeless or incarcerated for the better part of your life, which would you choose?
posted by robbie01 to society & culture (26 comments total)

Add psychiatric problems in a substantial portion to the drugs/alcohol theme.
So I don't think between those 3 influences there's too much room for a lot of rational thinking. That's why some of us favour strong social safety nets - which of course don't catch everyone.

I don't think I'd choose prison in America.
I might here in Oz.
posted by peacay at 10:40 PM on March 17, 2005

You may find this, enlightening reading.
posted by DelusionsofGrandeur at 10:46 PM on March 17, 2005

These are people who are too afraid to stay in, or so struggling with their demons, that they can't stand to be in, homeless shelters.
posted by orthogonality at 10:49 PM on March 17, 2005

I would image a lot of homeless people place a high value on freedom and independence. Getting by on their own probably gives them some degree of satisfaction.

The portion of homeless people who would be attracted to your plan have probably already committed their crimes and are living in prison, or bounce back and forth.
posted by agropyron at 10:50 PM on March 17, 2005

Perhaps because despite the fact that the situation seems hopeless, that the homeless person themself refuses to give up hope that things might change for the better. Also, I imagine that homeless people probably have their own friends and social networks that would be difficult to leave, much as most of us wouldn't choose to abandon our social networks.
posted by Kololo at 10:54 PM on March 17, 2005

If you're poor and homeless it's pretty easy for a minor incident to get bumped up to a felony. 3 felonies in California and you're in jail for life. You can't control the process of getting caught and convicted. Chances are pretty good that you're going to have to commit a lot of crimes before getting caught. Once you're caught you can't predict what type of sentence you're going to get. Once you're sentenced you've lost all control for the length of the sentence. You can recover from being homeless. You can reconstruct a life as an ex-con but it's harder than recovering from homelessness.

Also if you're jailed you're jammed into a prison with a lot of violent predators. Your chances are better on the outside.
posted by rdr at 11:19 PM on March 17, 2005

The poorest American's often refuse to acknowledge they are poor.
posted by xammerboy at 11:26 PM on March 17, 2005

One reason is because being poor != bad, and even nut-case, drug/alcohol-addicted homeless people are often essentially good people.

Another reason is conditions in jail tend to be quite abusive. If not from the jailers, than from the prisoners.

DelusionsofGrandeur: fascinating link. Especially about the guy who couldn't handle corners.

I can add too, after some time being homeless, it can be quite strange to stay indoors. And it certainly is difficult to go from the freedom of having nothing to an environment (facility) where your actions are dictated. I speak as a person who spent some homeless time as a youth. If your interest is deep enough, feel free to write.
posted by Goofyy at 11:27 PM on March 17, 2005

"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons." — F. Dostoyevski
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:33 PM on March 17, 2005

D.O.G.....good link. Thanx.
It's a very complex emotional psychological conundrum. Policies don't a/c for individuals. The frontline work must be quite soul destroying - as it is for the homeless.
I'm unemployed but with hope and family help and pretty good prospects. Take away one of those elements and I don't know how I could keep up much in the way of hope. It reminds me not to take things for granted.
posted by peacay at 11:40 PM on March 17, 2005

I have an acquaintance who was recently released from prison in Connecticut. While he said that some of the rumors weren't true in his jail (no forced sodomy or what not), there were other things that sucked a lot.

A common attack mode was for somebody to walk up to you while you were taking a dump, put their foot on your pants to keep you from moving, then punch you in the face, mid-dump. The most common weapon was not the shiv, but the lock in a sock, which he noted was able to bring down even the scariest of dudes when wielded well.

I learned how they deal with overcrowding too. There aren't jail cells with a cellmate. There are large rooms with 30 bunk beds and 60 men. So it's not like in the movies, where you just need to find a cellmate that you get along with.

Personally, I think living on the street sounds better.
posted by mosch at 11:54 PM on March 17, 2005

Despite popular wisdom, and what we see on television, prisons are awful places to be. I've never lived on the street, or been in prison, but from what I know of both situations I would imagine that any rational person would choose to be homeless.

On the other hand, many prisoners were homeless or in a state of extreme poverty before they entered prison. I don't think, however, that many of them intended to end up incarcerated.
posted by Doug at 11:58 PM on March 17, 2005

On top of the excellent points already made here, I think you're overestimating the quality of life in prison. I corresponded with an inmate in a maximum security prison for about six years and drugs and alcohol are pretty common in prisons, for one thing. Educational and vocational programs in prisons are being cut as much or more as other social services. Inmates are treated with violence and disrespect by everyone in the system, especially the guards. The food is lousy, punishment is meted out arbitrarily and there is an inescapable class hierarchy among the prisoners enforced by violence, which the guards can choose to ignore or punish. In general, there is little to no chance for self-improvement or self-respect as a prisoner, and there's basically no opportunity to change that until you get out. Here are some stories: from Mother Jones, notes from an inmate on prison conditions, or any number of stories about life on the inside. (On preview, yeah....)

Also, DelusionsofGrandeur: I worked in a homeless services for a couple years and that article is fascinating and a good summary of the kinds of clients I saw.
posted by bendy at 12:16 AM on March 18, 2005

I would image a lot of homeless people place a high value on freedom and independence. Getting by on their own probably gives them some degree of satisfaction.

I would agree. I got chatting to quite a few homeless people while I was in the US (mainly as a form of protection, as they seemed to live outside my motel) and got to know what made them tick. You'd be surprised but these people had quite a lot of pride. I couldn't see most of them committing crimes to get a room, they'd just see that as plain wrong. Besides, if they were the sort of people to do this, they'd have previously committed crimes to make sure they didn't end up on the street.
posted by wackybrit at 12:31 AM on March 18, 2005

The presumption that dependancy can't continue in prison (from original post) is ridiculous, as far as I know. I've heard it said it can be easier to find drugs in prison than outside. I think agropyron has it dead on, the #1 difference between prison and the streets is freedom. 3 meals or not, for someone who refuses or is unable to function within our society, confinement is to be dreaded.

An interesting read, similar to the Guardian article, but more in depth - "Stranger to the System". Stories (transcribed from taped interviews) from a number of homeless people in New York's East Village. While discussing why certain people are resigned to/prefer the streets to "indoor life" or prison, it shows the various paths they've taken to the streets, and why they're still there. There are 25+ pages of stories online.
posted by Jack Karaoke at 12:39 AM on March 18, 2005

I imagine a great majority of the homeless have a drug and/or alcohol addiction that they realize couldn't continue in prison, but is that the driving factor?

The great majority of homeless don't stay out of prison simply because they can't get a fix on the inside.

I have been homeless, and I wrote up a Q&A thread on another community site, if you're interested in reading it. A few other formerly homeless people contributed as well, so there's a few different point of views present.

I addressed the "why not just go to prison" issue in that thread, I'm pretty certain. If I'm mistaken, I'll address it here, if you'd like.
posted by Jairus at 5:04 AM on March 18, 2005 [1 favorite]

A great deal of it comes down to morals. To some people morals aren't disposable things, they'll suffer before letting go of them. Why not target the question a little closer to home?

You're all hip, young and attractive. Why do you suffer through the daily grind, incompetent managers and back stabbing co-workers instead of swallowing your pride (and maybe something else) and becoming an escort? Expensive meals, 6 digit gifts and nights at the Plaza can be yours instead of Chicken McNuggets, 10 buck crap from a Secret Santa and business travel at the Motel 6.
posted by substrate at 6:01 AM on March 18, 2005

I would like to point out that in areas where it gets cold in the winter, some homeless folks commit minor offenses that will land them in the county jail for a few months (long enough to ride out the cold spell), but not land them in state prison for several years. Depending on where you're at, the county jail could be a lot better than a state prison. I spoke with a law enforcement officer about this once, and he said they often had people commit misdemeanor offenses, spend a few nights in jail, and then when the judge released them, they went right back out and did it again within hours.
posted by MrZero at 6:41 AM on March 18, 2005

Despite popular wisdom, and what we see on television, prisons are awful places to be.

If this is the case, then why are there so many repeat offenders?
posted by eas98 at 7:20 AM on March 18, 2005

Still, too, even on cold nights there can be homeless people who are reluctant to go to shelters, much less jail. NPR had an interview with such a person just a couple days ago. (Which is NOT an argument against such safety nets and indeed better ones--all this talk about America's culture of life in the midst of the Schiavo debate bypasses such national disgraces as our homeless and prison issues both.)
posted by Pattie at 7:38 AM on March 18, 2005

You may find this, enlightening reading.
posted by DelusionsofGrandeur at 10:46 PM PST on March 17 [!]


I certainly did. Great link. Thanks DoG.
posted by jikel_morten at 7:44 AM on March 18, 2005

Shelters are lousy places (go volunteer and see, especially overnight), and prisons are much worse. I'd definitely choose the street over either.

It's a pity we don't have more transitional housing programs and rehab in general tho.
posted by amberglow at 8:09 AM on March 18, 2005

sometimes I wonder why the *really* destitute people (those seemingly beyond any help) don't just commit a crime bad enough that they would get put in jail for several years

I second Mr. Zero. Your question assumes thatsome people don't alrady do this. In fact, they do to some extent, although I think the preferred crimes are not ones that would require them to be sent away for several years, but ones that wil give them "three hots and a cot" in the municipal or county lockup.

As the first link illustrated, that's one reason why "three strikes and you're out" legislation is unproductive and is overcrowding prisons.
posted by Miko at 8:18 AM on March 18, 2005

If this is the case, then why are there so many repeat offenders?

Because when you've been resocialized to exist in a prison environment, and you're suddenly released from that environment, you act in ways that may not be appropriate.

They don't teach you how to pay bills and keep a job in prison. If you're on the outside now, and you're in a position where the only reliable means of making money is an illegal one (as you lack the skills to reliably make money legally), you'll do it. And you'll probably get caught, as you clearly weren't good at keeping your activities under the radar in the first place.

You might want to look at social theory and criminology for much more research and information on this. It's very well-understood in those fields, and I fear my explanation is doing a disservice.
posted by Jairus at 8:34 AM on March 18, 2005

Jairus - thanks for the link to your SA thread. I hope you write that book someday, you sound like you've got some really extraordinary stories to tell.
posted by jasper411 at 9:52 AM on March 18, 2005

Something to ponder as why your plan may fail.

Jails have served time systems that may put a homeless person back on the street before your idea fully works out. With jail space becoming less, some jails have systems that certain days served are multiplied reducing the actual time to be served. Example; jailed Sat. & Sun may = 4 days served towards their jail sentence. Plus factoring in probation a homeless person would be stuck in the system losing their freedom. Because you must maintain a residence plus the other court ordered crap.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:59 AM on March 18, 2005