Random questions about Hapkido
September 6, 2010 1:38 PM   Subscribe

I am taking lessons, primarily for fun, in a relatively obscure Korean martial art called Hapkido. I have some questions.

I started taking Hapkido lessons about a month ago and I have some questions that I would feel embarrassed asking the instructor. I'm very new to all of this, with no prior martial arts/etc. experience except for when I took Karate lessons as a young child.

1. I notice that Hapkido likes to slap, e.g. like a backhanded bitch slap. Is this actually effective? I've never actually been bitch slapped nor have I bitch slapped someone but I can't imagine that this would be as effective as punching someone. What's the rationale here?

2. What's with the silly breathing exercises where you crouch and lift your hands and such?

3. There is a ton of emphasis in my school on learning to counter wrist grabs, etc., and what I infer is that by focusing on this I am gradually learning the situational awareness necessary to be able to apply the concepts from the techniques in scenarios in which you are not actually being grabbed. (How often does that happen to a man?) Is this method of instruction justified or impractical, in your opinion?

4. I really went into this just because I was looking to have fun, and I think it is fun, but I still would like some day to be at a level where I am proficient. How practicable is what I am learning? After a year? Two years? Etc.?

5. Do any out of classroom resources exist that would help my development in the classroom?

6. We have the following belt system: white, yellow, blue, red, maroon, black. How quickly should I expect to advance?

7. What else should I know that I might not be asking?
posted by prunes to Health & Fitness (14 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
1. Is this actually effective? Not really. Except as a targeted strike to a vulnerable point or a distraction. It's kind of the Asian martial art equivalent of the boxing jab.

2. The woo answer is that it develops your chi (or Ki, not sure what the Koreans call it). The no nonsense answer is that it develops breathing skills and discipline which are helpful.

3. The emphasis on wrist grabs comes from the tradition of judo style throws, many of which involve wrist grabs as an opening move. It's worth learning but probably not something you'll ever encounter "on the street" as they say.

4. Depends. When I got a black belt in Shotokan I thought I was hot stuff but I now realize that the techniques I was using then would have gotten me killed. Now I feel more competent but I know I'll never be invincible. The most practical self defense technique is avoidance.

5. I can't point to anything specific for Hapkido but there are a ton of books and videos out there on all martial arts. The more you read about all styles the more you'll learn about their commonality.

6. Don't worry about it.

7. Ask yourself: what is your goal? Self defense? To get in shape? To have fun? To develop discipline or something intangible? Then you can figure out what the right questions are that you should be asking.

I think a great book on the philosophy of Asian martial arts for beginners is Living the Martial Way by Forrest Morgan.

I also have a lot of respect for Hapkido as an art. Your success will depend on your teacher and on your own efforts outside of the dojang. Good luck.
posted by natteringnabob at 2:28 PM on September 6, 2010 [2 favorites]


IIRC Hapkido & Aikido are related. My experience is (mostly) aikido, so I'll answer based on that. As is traditional in Ask.me I shall respond to most of your questions with further questions :)

1) The slaps are probably a distraction attack. The point is to distract & direct your opponent's focus. I doubt they're meant to be effective in and of themselves, but I've never taken a Hapkido class. Aikido classes often start with open hand attacks for beginners -- higher grades are expected to be able to cope with being punched (I have had my nose broken, but only once...)

2) Most "traditional" martial arts have some form of "movement" which is practised solo. Karate has its Kata, Aikido & Hapkido have their breathing exercises. The latter do at least teach you to relax & focus, although you could get that from a good yoga session just as effectively.

3) If an aikidoka says "grab my wrist", just say no thanks :)

4) How much time are you willing to put in? What do you think proficient means in this context?

Two hours twice a week is more than twice as effective as 2 hours once a week, but mastery will take years either way.

5) There are almost certainly DVDs etc, but given that you're a compete novice, stick to the classes.

6) Depends entirely on the school & possibly the teacher. It's hard to do, but try not to get particularly hung up on the belts: they don't really mean anything.

7) Don't expect Aikido/Hapkido to necessarily teach you effective martial arts techniques (nor most of the other traditional martial arts for that matter). Especially if the class contains little to no free sparring, in which case it's more of a lesson in a particularly obscure form of morris dancing :)

Schools vary enormously on this front & I've seen woo woo Karate groups & hard as nails Aikido clubs. If you're looking for 'on the street' effectiveness as quickly as possible you're probably in the wrong place, but don't let that stop you enjoying yourself!
posted by pharm at 2:31 PM on September 6, 2010


Oh - and a question about your instructor - is it a Westerner or Asian? And is it a traditional school or more laid back? If Western and not very traditional, go ahead and ask these questions of your instructor. They will probably be happy to see that you are interested and digging deeper.

If it is more traditional, then you might be better off just watching and learning, and asking the senior students. You'll have to gauge that for yourself.
posted by natteringnabob at 2:33 PM on September 6, 2010


Response by poster: The instructor is a westerner. He is a fifth dan black belt and is affiliated with Jungki Kwan. In his spare time he provides security services for large events.
posted by prunes at 2:41 PM on September 6, 2010


On the question of the belt advancement, I encourage you to not consider the colors as "levels" in a videogame or classroom, but to investigate Hapkido's actual skill level advancement.

My wife takes Kul Sool Won, a very practical and also very complicated and beautiful Korean martial art. I love how brilliant she is with a variety of punches and kicks - much more than Karate, but most very effective. Long story short, belt advancement is rather staggered, IMHO. To roll up through the first few "under" belts only takes a year and a half. But to advance through the last few "upper" belts; well, each one takes a year.

My story is completely anecdotal - I only mean to show you that advancing through belts only matters as a question related to "what do I learn at what belt level".
posted by carlh at 2:45 PM on September 6, 2010


Response by poster: The belt question wasn't intended to ask "how quickly can I advance through the system?" but more so how quickly can I expect to become proficient.

Also, regarding the slaps--I don't see them being used as a distraction. I see a backhand even being used when you have someone bent over in an armbar.
posted by prunes at 2:53 PM on September 6, 2010


Response by poster: Actually I don't think that armbar is the right word, but basically where you have the person bent over with total control over the person's arm.
posted by prunes at 2:54 PM on September 6, 2010


1. It isn't as effective as punching someone. I've never done Hapkido, so I can't really speak to their purpose with it. But punching people is better unless the slap is just setting people up.

2. This sort of thing is typical of traditional martial arts systems. People have widely divergent opinions on this. Personally, I think the exercises are good for meditation, but not so applicable to combat.

3.Personally, I don't buy all the wrist grabs. Most people don't grab your wrist in a fight. And many of these attacks are much less effective against opponents who are resisting. And many of these attacks depend a lot on fine motor coordination, and small joint manipulations that are much more difficult when adrenalized than when not.

4. Someone who is practicing frequently (3-4X per week) will get some proficiency 2-3 years in. But to be totally honest, I don't think you've picked the most effective martial art. I think if learning to fight is your top priority, you should look into other systems. If, on the other hand, meeting some people, having fun, or getting fit is your main goal, you might be in the right place. :)

5. I can't speak to Hapkido, but for jiu-jitsu and Judo there are actually some excellent resources on Youtube.

6. No idea. With consistent, hard training, advancement in brazilian jiu-jitsu tends to go 12-24 months per belt, and there are 4 belts.

7. I agree with the poster about who said that clarifying your goals is going to be important.

Good luck!
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 3:00 PM on September 6, 2010


Also, regarding the slaps--I don't see them being used as a distraction. I see a backhand even being used when you have someone bent over in an armbar.

My experience is also with aikido, but assuming I can picture the situation you're describing, we often used jabs, slaps, pinches, and even just heel of the hand to redirect the person who attacked us. In other words, they're coming one way, but you want them to go another, or to get them off-balance. You could force them that way, but simpler and safer is to make it in their best interest to move, i.e., rely on their instinct to move away from your hand. So we never have an intention of connecting.
posted by artifarce at 4:36 PM on September 6, 2010


3. As evidenced by my past tense above, I'm no longer practicing, but the biggest thing I got out of my years is learning how to move, regardless of how I'm being attacked. When I wrestle with my husband, he's always trying to grab my wrists or generally try to use his arms to force me one way or another. Also, as you refine your practice and get better, you don't actually wait until someone grabs you. You just move out of the way. So you can say that you're not learning what to do when someone grabs your wrist on the same side, or comes at you with a dagger overhand, but creating muscle memories of movements which can be applied in more general situations.
posted by artifarce at 4:40 PM on September 6, 2010


I did Hapkido for 11 years. I've got the belt before black. (There are different color systems. Also, I'm a slow learner.) I honestly don't know what I think about the whole experience. One perk is that no one who grabs me, anywhere, can maintain their grip on me. I can always get free. So that's kind of nice. And I can always stay on my feet.

As an uber-quality martial art? I'm not so sure. I've always thought of it as a bastard mix between aikido and taikwondo. Aikido is kinda a rarified and impractical, in my opinion. And Taikwondo is pretty crude and plebian. Interpret as you will. Have fun. I liked the light-to-medium-contact sparring. Good times.

There is a such a vast range of quality between different styles of martial arts, teachers, etc. And it depends on what your goals are, too. (Brutal street self-defense, might get arrested self-defense, formal sparring, don't get sexually assaulted, learn some discipline, get more comfortable in my body, etc., etc., etc....). Some martial arts focus more on throws and have really simple kicks. Some martial arts focus on kicks with some really simple throws, and this give and take is along any dimension you can imagine. It's a lot to consider, unless the stakes aren't too high. Then just do what feels good.

My sense is that if someone about my size and weight attacked me and they didn't have any training, I could put them on the ground without hurting myself or them. If they were a bit bigger or they had even a little bit of training, one of us would get hurt. But, like I said, I had zero natural talent.
posted by zeek321 at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2010


But then there was this time that a drunk guy in a deserted parking lot somehow managed to get me up against a car with his hands around my neck, and I just couldn't bear to slug this guy in the face. Yuck. It was sure useful in junior high, though.
posted by zeek321 at 5:12 PM on September 6, 2010


4. "After a year? Two years? Etc.?"
Depends on your level of fitness. A good sportsman can learn a lot in a year with daily training. Everything else needs time. It does not matter with what you start in martial arts, it will only give you a ground to build up from. Fastest results you could expect from boxing. The is a reason why boxing is highly respected in MMA.

6. "We have the following belt system: white, yellow, blue, red, maroon, black. How quickly should I expect to advance?"
Nothing. The belt system is mostly a money making system. I can give you some incentive to train nevertheless. No belts in boxing, only champions chip belts ;-)

7. What else should I know that I might not be asking?
Enjoy it as what it is. A _sport_. Try to cross-train with some other people from different backgrounds. Make sure they are reliable and safe. Don't try to proof anything when sparring with someone else with a different background.

Listen to natteringnabob

"The most practical self defense technique is avoidance."

Listen to me: Your best weapon is your brain!
posted by yoyo_nyc at 2:21 AM on September 7, 2010


I've been thinking more about your question re: the backhand strike. I remember speaking to some Korean guys who studied Hapkido a long time ago and their opinion was that a knuckle strike to certain points could be deadly. Your instructor is a better resource on this than me, but it seems like you might want to start learning the targets and practice striking them precisely (much easier to do when you have your opponent bent over in an armbar, as you have described).

Also, since it's a common strike in your style, you might consider practicing it. Maybe it seems weak and ineffective, but there's always room for improvement with any technique. So practice delivering it with power, speed, and precision, hitting with the specific knuckles that you are supposed to be using.

Also - a slap can deliver a big bunch of woo... it might be an energy strike. Various kung fu styles deliver all kinds of crazy strikes that don't look at all powerful but are meant for specific targets and situations.

Or the instructor might be teaching you a slap instead of a knuckle strike so that you don't hurt anyone. Or his instructor might have taught him the slap so he wouldn't hurt anyone and he doesn't know any better (no disrespect intended to your instructor but watered down techniques are depressingly common in a lot of Asian martial arts taught by Westerners).

Best of luck to you.
posted by natteringnabob at 2:34 PM on September 14, 2010


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