How do I talk sense into an ex of a friend?
August 31, 2010 12:38 PM Subscribe
My ladyfriend's ex is inviting himself to her birthday visit, how do I untangle this soap opera?
Pursuant to a previous question of mine, a new wrinkle has appeared.
Her ex and I have been friends forever and have been reconnecting very well the past 6mos or so. That's been fine. She moved to an opposite coast a couple of years ago, and Ex apparently is in sporadic touch with Her. (short version) She is visiting town this weekend for her birthday, and we made plans to spend time together, when all of a sudden Ex starts telling me that he's gonna fly up (from the other end of California) and stay at my place while she's here. I dragged on the idea, didn't really respond much, "oh yeah?" but he kept on with his plans.
She is telling me this is kind of weird and doesn't know why he's so anxious to be here. I think it's a bit presumptuous given they haven't seen each other in years and the facts of their history together (he left her for her best friend). I don't think he knows the history that Her and I have, but he may suspect, given his insistence on staying here. Every other time he's visited he has first offered to stay in a hotel and I've had to convince him to stay here.
I don't want to be accusatory against him and I'm trying to be as adult as I know how (which isn't much), but I think it would be best (and I'm pretty sure she does, too) if he didn't pick her birthday to show up out of the blue. I know birthdays can be a big renewal and all, but really. I just don't know how to approach it.
I've thought of asking if he really thinks it's a good idea, if it's something she wants (rather than it only being something he wants). He has been awfully insistent about coming up and it's really just plain creepy. Plus, the triangle thing (me and her have chemistry, suffice it to say). I know there's a way to navigate this, but I just really didn't do very well in Psychology 1A and didn't even take Child Development.
Pursuant to a previous question of mine, a new wrinkle has appeared.
Her ex and I have been friends forever and have been reconnecting very well the past 6mos or so. That's been fine. She moved to an opposite coast a couple of years ago, and Ex apparently is in sporadic touch with Her. (short version) She is visiting town this weekend for her birthday, and we made plans to spend time together, when all of a sudden Ex starts telling me that he's gonna fly up (from the other end of California) and stay at my place while she's here. I dragged on the idea, didn't really respond much, "oh yeah?" but he kept on with his plans.
She is telling me this is kind of weird and doesn't know why he's so anxious to be here. I think it's a bit presumptuous given they haven't seen each other in years and the facts of their history together (he left her for her best friend). I don't think he knows the history that Her and I have, but he may suspect, given his insistence on staying here. Every other time he's visited he has first offered to stay in a hotel and I've had to convince him to stay here.
I don't want to be accusatory against him and I'm trying to be as adult as I know how (which isn't much), but I think it would be best (and I'm pretty sure she does, too) if he didn't pick her birthday to show up out of the blue. I know birthdays can be a big renewal and all, but really. I just don't know how to approach it.
I've thought of asking if he really thinks it's a good idea, if it's something she wants (rather than it only being something he wants). He has been awfully insistent about coming up and it's really just plain creepy. Plus, the triangle thing (me and her have chemistry, suffice it to say). I know there's a way to navigate this, but I just really didn't do very well in Psychology 1A and didn't even take Child Development.
If she doesn't want to see him, why doesn't she just tell him that? I don't really see this having much to do with you at all.
posted by greta simone at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by greta simone at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's really okay to tell him that you don't want him staying at your place this time. If he keeps insisting, it's also okay to let him know he's being rude by inviting himself to stay with you for the weekend. You don't even owe him an explanation as to why it'll be a weird love/lust triangle.
posted by scarykarrey at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by scarykarrey at 12:47 PM on August 31, 2010 [7 favorites]
I've thought of asking if he really thinks it's a good idea, if it's something she wants
You're not friends with him. She's friends with him. She needs to tell him that you're spending the weekend together and she'll see him at some indeterminate time in the future. Don't be passive aggressive about this. If someone asked me if visiting my friend was something my friend wanted, I'd say yes, otherwise they wouldn't be my friend.
Taking it all on face value she could be just wimping out and not telling him no.
"Hey I'm coming up to see you on your birthday, can I stay at rhizome's place?"
"Oh, I guess."
"Great!"
If gets to the point where she won't confront him and just wants to take the easiest route, that's something you guys need to work out. There's no reason not to be clear about this. He's visited before, there's precedence and "This is suppose to be a romantic weekend," should not be a big deal.
posted by geoff. at 12:48 PM on August 31, 2010
You're not friends with him. She's friends with him. She needs to tell him that you're spending the weekend together and she'll see him at some indeterminate time in the future. Don't be passive aggressive about this. If someone asked me if visiting my friend was something my friend wanted, I'd say yes, otherwise they wouldn't be my friend.
Taking it all on face value she could be just wimping out and not telling him no.
"Hey I'm coming up to see you on your birthday, can I stay at rhizome's place?"
"Oh, I guess."
"Great!"
If gets to the point where she won't confront him and just wants to take the easiest route, that's something you guys need to work out. There's no reason not to be clear about this. He's visited before, there's precedence and "This is suppose to be a romantic weekend," should not be a big deal.
posted by geoff. at 12:48 PM on August 31, 2010
You untangle it by putting the responsibility where it belongs: With the two of them. Direct her to him: "Honey, if you don't wish him there, please tell him. I will back you up." And likewise hime to her: "I know you're my friend, but you're putting me in an uncomfortable place. It's her birthday, if you want an invitation, please check in with her as to whether you are invited." Then step back & out. It's not the wuss way. It's the way two adults deal with each other. Right now they're both winning Immature Adult of the Week by trying to play tug-of-war with "their" trophy friend.
posted by Ys at 12:49 PM on August 31, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Ys at 12:49 PM on August 31, 2010 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: No, we just enjoy each other's company. It's similar to the related plot element in the movie "Up In The Air," if more sporadic.
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on August 31, 2010
All friendships have their limits. You are not obligated to let this friend stay with you if you don't want him to. He may or may not choose to take offense if you turn down his request, but if he takes offense, he is being unreasonable.
As for the possible relationship between your friend and his ex-girlfriend who is now your ladyfriend, if you would rather that she not involve herself with him, you can request that she not see him. She may not agree, and again, that is her choice. You may or may not choose to take offense. But she gets to decide whether she is in an exclusive relationship with you or not. If she isn't, maybe you should have a different ladyfriend. But that too is up to you.
posted by grizzled at 12:50 PM on August 31, 2010
As for the possible relationship between your friend and his ex-girlfriend who is now your ladyfriend, if you would rather that she not involve herself with him, you can request that she not see him. She may not agree, and again, that is her choice. You may or may not choose to take offense. But she gets to decide whether she is in an exclusive relationship with you or not. If she isn't, maybe you should have a different ladyfriend. But that too is up to you.
posted by grizzled at 12:50 PM on August 31, 2010
Next time you talk to him, tell him in no uncertain terms that he cannot stay with you that weekend.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:51 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:51 PM on August 31, 2010
Ex apparently is in sporadic touch with Her
Why can't she tell him herself?
Every other time he's visited he has first offered to stay in a hotel and I've had to convince him to stay here.
Maybe he finally gave up and got used to crashing at your place.
So are you in a relationship with her?
Is this more of an issue where YOU feel uncomfortable because her ex (your friend) plans on being there?
posted by KogeLiz at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2010
Why can't she tell him herself?
Every other time he's visited he has first offered to stay in a hotel and I've had to convince him to stay here.
Maybe he finally gave up and got used to crashing at your place.
So are you in a relationship with her?
Is this more of an issue where YOU feel uncomfortable because her ex (your friend) plans on being there?
posted by KogeLiz at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2010
He invited himself to stay at your place? Tell him "no." You know how other times he's offered to stay at a hotel? Just tell him something like, "Remember other times that you offered to stay in a hotel? I think that it would actually be better for us if you did that this time." (That's if you decide not to just bluntly tell him, "Look, don't come.")
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2010
You did not invite him. He invited himself. She did not invite him. He invited himself. Simply tell him NO...we have made plans and do not want to change them.
posted by Postroad at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by Postroad at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2010
Response by poster: As for the possible relationship between your friend and his ex-girlfriend who is now your ladyfriend, if you would rather that she not involve herself with him, you can request that she not see him
This is really more of a third-wheel situation, which is probably a term I should have used in the original question. Maybe five years ago I stopped even mentioning Ex to her because she said "I don't even want to hear his name." Of course, time heals all wounds, but like I said, even she said the idea of his presence this weekend is weird. I don't doubt she could stand to put her foot down about it, but there is no chance of her touching "involvement" with a 10-foot pole. It wouldn't be a rekindling.
posted by rhizome at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2010
This is really more of a third-wheel situation, which is probably a term I should have used in the original question. Maybe five years ago I stopped even mentioning Ex to her because she said "I don't even want to hear his name." Of course, time heals all wounds, but like I said, even she said the idea of his presence this weekend is weird. I don't doubt she could stand to put her foot down about it, but there is no chance of her touching "involvement" with a 10-foot pole. It wouldn't be a rekindling.
posted by rhizome at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2010
Ex starts telling me that he's gonna fly up (from the other end of California) and stay at my place while she's here. I dragged on the idea, didn't really respond much, "oh yeah?" but he kept on with his plans.
He kept on because you didn't say no. You need to Nancy Reagan that shit. Laugh, lie, make alternate suggestions, do whatever you need to do to give yourself permission to say NO.
posted by hermitosis at 1:00 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
He kept on because you didn't say no. You need to Nancy Reagan that shit. Laugh, lie, make alternate suggestions, do whatever you need to do to give yourself permission to say NO.
posted by hermitosis at 1:00 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
If he wants to get back together with her, why doesn't he just give her a call and talk to her instead of putting you in the middle all the time? If he doesn't have her number, then there is probably a reason for that. The ONLY thing I'd do for him is to ask Ann if she wants you to give him her contact information, and if she says no, leave it at that.
I don't think you need to get embroiled in explanations and drama with this guy. Just tell him "Sorry, we won't have time to get together with you birthday weekend, we have other plans. No, it's not possible for you to stay with me. Sorry, it's just not possible. Well, of course you can come up and stay in a hotel if you want, but we won't have time to visit with you."
You don't have to tie yourself into knots trying to figure out what his motivations are or to keep him happy. Frankly he sounds like a pain in the ass drama queen.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 1:05 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think you need to get embroiled in explanations and drama with this guy. Just tell him "Sorry, we won't have time to get together with you birthday weekend, we have other plans. No, it's not possible for you to stay with me. Sorry, it's just not possible. Well, of course you can come up and stay in a hotel if you want, but we won't have time to visit with you."
You don't have to tie yourself into knots trying to figure out what his motivations are or to keep him happy. Frankly he sounds like a pain in the ass drama queen.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 1:05 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Possibly useful clarification: It's not really a "we" weekend. We like spending time together and we have acknowledged this to each other and everything, that we would indeed have time together, as well as how Ex's presence over the weekend is gonna kinda stink up the place for her.
He may want to get back together with her, or think he has a chance (based on the email that was the subject of the previous question), but I don't think it's realistic. He can be given to fever dreams.
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2010
He may want to get back together with her, or think he has a chance (based on the email that was the subject of the previous question), but I don't think it's realistic. He can be given to fever dreams.
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on August 31, 2010
Ex's presence over the weekend is gonna kinda stink up the place for her.
"I'm not sure if I was clear with my non-committal answers from before, but I can't have you staying at my place over that weekend. My apologies if this was unclear earlier." and if he's a weirdo about it you can follow up with "It's just not possible" [a la Miss Manners] It's not at all your responsibility to manage this, but you are more than able to not make the situation worse. No one needs to have a house guest that they do not want. Period.
posted by jessamyn at 1:26 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I'm not sure if I was clear with my non-committal answers from before, but I can't have you staying at my place over that weekend. My apologies if this was unclear earlier." and if he's a weirdo about it you can follow up with "It's just not possible" [a la Miss Manners] It's not at all your responsibility to manage this, but you are more than able to not make the situation worse. No one needs to have a house guest that they do not want. Period.
posted by jessamyn at 1:26 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
I agree with the above answers along the lines that you should get them to have a conversation. You mention that they have had some contact. Tell him that you and the lady are working out details of her birthday weekend, and that he should call her to make sure everyone is on the same page, in terms of when and how he is going to participate.
If the ladyfriend is not interested in having the conversation with the ex, well then that just clarifies the situation even more - in that case it would appear that she just wants to put the burden of interacting with the ex on you so she doesn't have to deal with it / think about it at all.
even she said the idea of his presence this weekend is weird.
I want to give all parties the benefit of the doubt, but it sounds very much like her side of this is "I don't want to deal with the ex situation, make it go away please." Now it's up to you whether you want to do that on her behalf. It sounds like you are both pretty non-confrontational so I understand the awkwardness, but this is one of those times where you or her either have to have a small, potentially unpleasant confrontation with Ex guy up front, or resign yourself to a weekend of potentially much more unpleasant awkardness and general birthday-ruination. You make the call.
posted by chaff at 1:30 PM on August 31, 2010
If the ladyfriend is not interested in having the conversation with the ex, well then that just clarifies the situation even more - in that case it would appear that she just wants to put the burden of interacting with the ex on you so she doesn't have to deal with it / think about it at all.
even she said the idea of his presence this weekend is weird.
I want to give all parties the benefit of the doubt, but it sounds very much like her side of this is "I don't want to deal with the ex situation, make it go away please." Now it's up to you whether you want to do that on her behalf. It sounds like you are both pretty non-confrontational so I understand the awkwardness, but this is one of those times where you or her either have to have a small, potentially unpleasant confrontation with Ex guy up front, or resign yourself to a weekend of potentially much more unpleasant awkardness and general birthday-ruination. You make the call.
posted by chaff at 1:30 PM on August 31, 2010
I dunno, this sounds like somehting you are perhaps overly-involved in. As the person being asked to provide this guy a place to stay, all you have to to is tell him that you won't be able to put him up. This should be the end of your involvement in the matter.
If he still insists on coming down and spending time with this girl, then she needs to be the one to tell him she doesn't want him to.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 3:01 PM on August 31, 2010
If he still insists on coming down and spending time with this girl, then she needs to be the one to tell him she doesn't want him to.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 3:01 PM on August 31, 2010
I disagree with answers saying you should put this on her. Your friend is asking to come stay at your place. You need to tell him no.
posted by missmagenta at 3:05 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by missmagenta at 3:05 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
OK, I think there may be a few issues here.
You are not dating her, so there is no third-wheel. It sounds like you want to, why aren't you? You are dancing around the issue of what is going on with you two. I think you need to figure out what you want and go from there. more details would help.
But if the guy wants to stay with you, just say, sorry dude but I think this is a weekend for the two of us. Come out some other time.. . .
posted by Ironmouth at 3:15 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
You are not dating her, so there is no third-wheel. It sounds like you want to, why aren't you? You are dancing around the issue of what is going on with you two. I think you need to figure out what you want and go from there. more details would help.
But if the guy wants to stay with you, just say, sorry dude but I think this is a weekend for the two of us. Come out some other time.. . .
posted by Ironmouth at 3:15 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ask/Guess is the new therapy/DTMFA
But really, is that what's going on here? Are you a guess person, or is there some other reason why you think you don't have a right to tell someone he can't spend the weekend in your home? Because you emphatically do.
posted by Ragged Richard at 4:45 PM on August 31, 2010
But really, is that what's going on here? Are you a guess person, or is there some other reason why you think you don't have a right to tell someone he can't spend the weekend in your home? Because you emphatically do.
posted by Ragged Richard at 4:45 PM on August 31, 2010
"You are dancing around the issue of what is going on with you two."This.
From your description of you twos relationship
"...we just enjoy each other's company. It's similar to the related plot element in the movie "Up In The Air," if more sporadic."I'm lead to believe it's a long-distance friends-with-benefits situation that you keep hidden from all others.
While this puts your "friend" into the third wheel position, he doesn't really know it. If they're in sporadic touch with each other, he may be thinking "she'll enjoy seeing all us friends for her birthday".
It sounds like neither of you want him there for obvious reasons, but without being honest with him, what's to keep him from flying up anyway and just staying at a motel—still being that unintentional third wheel, still ruining your time together, and on top of it flying home feeling like an asshat after the penny drops?
Can you not be honest with him, saying something like "Dude, Jane is actually flying up to spend time with ME, sooooo..." adding more strings of words if he doesn't catch on yet?
posted by blueberry at 4:54 PM on August 31, 2010
Best answer: If I understand correctly... You and Ann are in a quasi-romantic relationship, but it's sort of a secret? In other words, to all the people you both know, you are still only old friends?
You've mutually made plans to spend time together while she is in town for her birthday. Your friend (who is her now-married ex who left her for her best friend) has invited himself to stay with you, while he presumably(?) attempts to either cheat on his wife with Ann, or re-establish a connection with her so he can leave his wife for Ann? He has been in some degree of contact with Ann, but as far as you can tell, she has no interest in reuniting with him, and you don't know whether or not he's learned that you and Ann are more than just good friends.
If this is accurate, then my advice is a) do not let him stay with you; tell him it's not going to work out because of earlier plans you've made (true), and b) unless Ann explicitly requests that you ask him not to come at all, the ball's in her court on that question, and if she doesn't want him there, she needs to email him and tell him so.
If she seems unwilling to do that, and also doesn't seem to want you to do that, she may have her own reasons. Perhaps she'd like the satisfaction of turning him down, or wants some end-of-the-story closure. Or it could be worse than that. The symmetry of him leaving her for her best friend, and now she being involved with his best friend may not be purely coincidental. Maybe he does know something of the situation with you and Ann, and he knows it from her; perhaps she has subtly encouraged him or tried to make him jealous. That's all wacky evil-soap-opera conjecture, but my impression is that you may not know enough to be sure about how things stand.
Part of the reason that the situation appears a bit impenetrable to me is that your earlier question is from so long ago... It seems that if you and Ann have not progressed beyond what is apparently a fairly nebulous relationship, there may be reasons for that that are less than transparent.
But it's not necessary for you to untangle all that; you can see what happens now. If she seems like she doesn't want him to come, say that you'd rather he didn't as well, and that she should email him to tell him not to come. If she says she is uncomfortable with that, ask if she'd rather you do it. If she doesn't want you to, assume that she may in fact want him to come, for whatever reasons. You'll just have to wait and observe and let that story unfold on its own... but don't let him stay with you.
posted by taz at 12:46 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
You've mutually made plans to spend time together while she is in town for her birthday. Your friend (who is her now-married ex who left her for her best friend) has invited himself to stay with you, while he presumably(?) attempts to either cheat on his wife with Ann, or re-establish a connection with her so he can leave his wife for Ann? He has been in some degree of contact with Ann, but as far as you can tell, she has no interest in reuniting with him, and you don't know whether or not he's learned that you and Ann are more than just good friends.
If this is accurate, then my advice is a) do not let him stay with you; tell him it's not going to work out because of earlier plans you've made (true), and b) unless Ann explicitly requests that you ask him not to come at all, the ball's in her court on that question, and if she doesn't want him there, she needs to email him and tell him so.
If she seems unwilling to do that, and also doesn't seem to want you to do that, she may have her own reasons. Perhaps she'd like the satisfaction of turning him down, or wants some end-of-the-story closure. Or it could be worse than that. The symmetry of him leaving her for her best friend, and now she being involved with his best friend may not be purely coincidental. Maybe he does know something of the situation with you and Ann, and he knows it from her; perhaps she has subtly encouraged him or tried to make him jealous. That's all wacky evil-soap-opera conjecture, but my impression is that you may not know enough to be sure about how things stand.
Part of the reason that the situation appears a bit impenetrable to me is that your earlier question is from so long ago... It seems that if you and Ann have not progressed beyond what is apparently a fairly nebulous relationship, there may be reasons for that that are less than transparent.
But it's not necessary for you to untangle all that; you can see what happens now. If she seems like she doesn't want him to come, say that you'd rather he didn't as well, and that she should email him to tell him not to come. If she says she is uncomfortable with that, ask if she'd rather you do it. If she doesn't want you to, assume that she may in fact want him to come, for whatever reasons. You'll just have to wait and observe and let that story unfold on its own... but don't let him stay with you.
posted by taz at 12:46 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
You need to get on the same page as her as to what happens next.
Tell her you feel uncomfortable about him being there and ask her how she feels.
- if it seems like she doesn't mind, ask her if it would be ok for the guy to stay at the hotel, because you just don't want him in your home.
- if she seems uncomfortable about it, too, discuss how to break it to him that you won't be seeing him. It's okay for you to do the talking, if both she and you want you to do it.
If she says she doesn't want to talk about it, I'm sorry, but that won't fly. It's your home.
posted by Omnomnom at 3:07 AM on September 1, 2010
Tell her you feel uncomfortable about him being there and ask her how she feels.
- if it seems like she doesn't mind, ask her if it would be ok for the guy to stay at the hotel, because you just don't want him in your home.
- if she seems uncomfortable about it, too, discuss how to break it to him that you won't be seeing him. It's okay for you to do the talking, if both she and you want you to do it.
If she says she doesn't want to talk about it, I'm sorry, but that won't fly. It's your home.
posted by Omnomnom at 3:07 AM on September 1, 2010
Response by poster: taz fairly nailed it. There is actually something to the wacky soap-opera conjecture scenario, but it would be a tremendous derail.
I talked to him yesterday; he's not coming up. I had talked to some other people and the general consensus was "WTF? Ex at a birthday party? You don't even have to be nice about it." I didn't know until talking to him that he actually hadn't seen her in, like, ever since he left her. 16 years.
I now know that I should have just bowed out of him staying here and been done with it. I need to recognize that withdrawing from a decision sometimes means that I don't want to effect the decision that I already know needs to be made. It's also hard to say "no" to friends.
posted by rhizome at 12:06 PM on September 1, 2010
I talked to him yesterday; he's not coming up. I had talked to some other people and the general consensus was "WTF? Ex at a birthday party? You don't even have to be nice about it." I didn't know until talking to him that he actually hadn't seen her in, like, ever since he left her. 16 years.
I now know that I should have just bowed out of him staying here and been done with it. I need to recognize that withdrawing from a decision sometimes means that I don't want to effect the decision that I already know needs to be made. It's also hard to say "no" to friends.
posted by rhizome at 12:06 PM on September 1, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:44 PM on August 31, 2010 [4 favorites]