How do I navigate racial politics with my family before our transracial adoption?
August 31, 2010 11:11 AM Subscribe
When I was childless, my parents' right-wing politics were pretty easy to ignore. Whatever, we're different, they are entitled to their opinions. But now that I have a small child, and we are about to adopt transracially, things are beginning to get tense for me.
Mind you, I didn't say "conservative" politics. I used the term "right-wing politics", specifically pundits who like to incite anger and be divisive. Glenn Beck is the latest hero in their house, Fox News plays continuously in the background, and they were trying to make it to the rally in D.C. last week.
One of my parents and I have had a falling out over the last 24 hours over this, which seems somewhat silly and sad. They can't understand my distrust and dislike of Glenn Beck, truly believe that he is an honorable and trustworthy media figure, and "isn't at all racist! He held his rally to honor MLK and to restore honor to this country!"
I received a note from this parent who was expressing their disappointment that I just can't see her point of view. And I sent back a note explaining my concern about what I see as the racism embedded in his message and how he talks about politics. And that my emotional reaction is most likely attributable to my feeling protective of our soon-to-be son.
In thinking about it later, I am realizing that I also have a history of frustration that this ignorance of racial politics exists in our family and that I am the "black sheep" when it comes to my beliefs (and have really never felt that I've fit in to my family, and that they often join forces to shut me out in any conversation around politics.) It also doesn't help that I am very active in political and social justice issues and events, it is a very big part of my life, and not something I can easily "shelve" when I am around family (unless we resolve only to discuss the weather, which is hard when you are spending time with them for more than a few hours.) It can be an intensely lonely feeling to be seen as the family scapegoat standing in for "all that is wrong with the Left".
My mother is adamant that she is not racist, nor is she supporting racism by being enthusiastic about Beck. She cites as evidence that: 1) she is colorblind when it comes to loving children, 2) her friend has a bi-racial child, 3) she helped get a black woman in her community a job and was thanked for it, 4) she always treats everyone the same. If I point to specific quotes from Beck that have racial implications, she explains that the media takes his quotes out of context.
I can't tell whether I am stressed and angry about being so different and feeling isolated within my own family. Or whether I am worried about how interacting with my extended family will affect my children (obviously they didn't censor themselves around me growing up, and it greatly affected me). Whether I need to fight the battle to educate my family about racial issues prior to this adoption being finalized. Or whether I just need to figure out and lay down boundaries for engagement.
Yes, I know this is mostly my problem. And that a therapist might provide some helpful insight. But today I am just sad and frustrated, and wondering if anyone else on the Green has dealt successfully with working through a similar situation.
Mind you, I didn't say "conservative" politics. I used the term "right-wing politics", specifically pundits who like to incite anger and be divisive. Glenn Beck is the latest hero in their house, Fox News plays continuously in the background, and they were trying to make it to the rally in D.C. last week.
One of my parents and I have had a falling out over the last 24 hours over this, which seems somewhat silly and sad. They can't understand my distrust and dislike of Glenn Beck, truly believe that he is an honorable and trustworthy media figure, and "isn't at all racist! He held his rally to honor MLK and to restore honor to this country!"
I received a note from this parent who was expressing their disappointment that I just can't see her point of view. And I sent back a note explaining my concern about what I see as the racism embedded in his message and how he talks about politics. And that my emotional reaction is most likely attributable to my feeling protective of our soon-to-be son.
In thinking about it later, I am realizing that I also have a history of frustration that this ignorance of racial politics exists in our family and that I am the "black sheep" when it comes to my beliefs (and have really never felt that I've fit in to my family, and that they often join forces to shut me out in any conversation around politics.) It also doesn't help that I am very active in political and social justice issues and events, it is a very big part of my life, and not something I can easily "shelve" when I am around family (unless we resolve only to discuss the weather, which is hard when you are spending time with them for more than a few hours.) It can be an intensely lonely feeling to be seen as the family scapegoat standing in for "all that is wrong with the Left".
My mother is adamant that she is not racist, nor is she supporting racism by being enthusiastic about Beck. She cites as evidence that: 1) she is colorblind when it comes to loving children, 2) her friend has a bi-racial child, 3) she helped get a black woman in her community a job and was thanked for it, 4) she always treats everyone the same. If I point to specific quotes from Beck that have racial implications, she explains that the media takes his quotes out of context.
I can't tell whether I am stressed and angry about being so different and feeling isolated within my own family. Or whether I am worried about how interacting with my extended family will affect my children (obviously they didn't censor themselves around me growing up, and it greatly affected me). Whether I need to fight the battle to educate my family about racial issues prior to this adoption being finalized. Or whether I just need to figure out and lay down boundaries for engagement.
Yes, I know this is mostly my problem. And that a therapist might provide some helpful insight. But today I am just sad and frustrated, and wondering if anyone else on the Green has dealt successfully with working through a similar situation.
So, basically, I would just talk to the parent and say, "i think it's a good idea if we didn't talk about politics - we have different views and it tends to upset me."
posted by KogeLiz at 11:25 AM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by KogeLiz at 11:25 AM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
Is she willing to go to bat against other relatives to prevent your child from hearing/overhearing harmful comments? That is what I'd be the most concerned about ironing out in advance. I have lots of relatives who would never DREAM of saying anything racist, especially at a family gathering, but they will sit there and laugh apologetically, letting my uncle's boorish jokes pass without comment even when there are children within earshot.
posted by hermitosis at 11:26 AM on August 31, 2010
posted by hermitosis at 11:26 AM on August 31, 2010
I sympathize. Oh, how do I! We're expecting our first and Mom will come out to help out with baby. She doesn't know this yet but I will be declaring my house a Fox-free zone. If she can sneak it in when I'm not around, I don't care, but listening to any of that crap makes my blood boil. It's divisive politics at its worst. It's endless bloviating which in my opinion is not news nor is it interesting. It's factually incorrect. It is not news. It's lowest common denominator political theater.
The thing that's tricky about your stance is that racism encompasses a broad spectrum of issues. Your mom is not a racist because she doesn't feel like a racist. It's easy to not be a racist when you are in your own little bubble of ethnicity, class and political sentiment. However, you could ask her to point out the diversity in the Beck crowd -- I'm guessing there's not much. That in itself is a sign. However, it doesn't make them all racists necessarily, it just makes them blissfully sheltered.
Beck is your middle of the road, white, American, privileged racist. He's not overt. He's just like his fans -- blissfully out of touch and happier for it. So, I think you might want to take another tact and maybe step away from the race issue. Though, of course, I think his recent rally was completely outrageous, stupid, back-asswards, disrespectful and brilliant in the way it really plucked a chord with his followers. Maybe try having a more broad conversation with your parents. What message was he trying to send by having his event at this time? Why is he sending this message? What are people expected to do?
There are lots of reasons to despise Glen Beck besides his views on race. And, I think you guys might be jumping the gun on trying to get this all sorted out before your adopted child gets here. You might find that the child actually helps you frame this issue in a way your parents understand.
I don't have any concrete advice. I've been struggling with this over the last few years and haven't found the right answer. I've found myself increasingly alienated from my family due for the most part to the political views expressed by my mother. Good luck.
posted by amanda at 11:27 AM on August 31, 2010
The thing that's tricky about your stance is that racism encompasses a broad spectrum of issues. Your mom is not a racist because she doesn't feel like a racist. It's easy to not be a racist when you are in your own little bubble of ethnicity, class and political sentiment. However, you could ask her to point out the diversity in the Beck crowd -- I'm guessing there's not much. That in itself is a sign. However, it doesn't make them all racists necessarily, it just makes them blissfully sheltered.
Beck is your middle of the road, white, American, privileged racist. He's not overt. He's just like his fans -- blissfully out of touch and happier for it. So, I think you might want to take another tact and maybe step away from the race issue. Though, of course, I think his recent rally was completely outrageous, stupid, back-asswards, disrespectful and brilliant in the way it really plucked a chord with his followers. Maybe try having a more broad conversation with your parents. What message was he trying to send by having his event at this time? Why is he sending this message? What are people expected to do?
There are lots of reasons to despise Glen Beck besides his views on race. And, I think you guys might be jumping the gun on trying to get this all sorted out before your adopted child gets here. You might find that the child actually helps you frame this issue in a way your parents understand.
I don't have any concrete advice. I've been struggling with this over the last few years and haven't found the right answer. I've found myself increasingly alienated from my family due for the most part to the political views expressed by my mother. Good luck.
posted by amanda at 11:27 AM on August 31, 2010
Best answer: I say set some boundaries and here's why - my mom (passed away in 2006) was as right-wing as they come mostly because she felt that "others" (minorities and other groups) got things she felt she was entitled to.
Mind you, she felt this way even as she was on Medicaid and Medicare and took full advantage of every. single. government program she could. (It boggled my head.) Yet, she had friends of all races and creeds. It was like she was a racist in the abstract and not a racist in the concrete. (You know what I mean?) Weird.
We had to set boundaries because I couldn't take the needling. We had to put my cat to sleep on election night 2004 and my mother could NOT wait to gloat about bush being (s)elected again. My husband had to tell her it was not a good time since I was upset about my cat. Yeesh. RIP mom - I love ya.
I feel your concern. I really do. You are entitled to your opinions and they, theirs. It's possible to get along - just kind of have to set those limits and stick to them and don't be afraid to call out those who won't do that.
posted by Mysticalchick at 11:28 AM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
Mind you, she felt this way even as she was on Medicaid and Medicare and took full advantage of every. single. government program she could. (It boggled my head.) Yet, she had friends of all races and creeds. It was like she was a racist in the abstract and not a racist in the concrete. (You know what I mean?) Weird.
We had to set boundaries because I couldn't take the needling. We had to put my cat to sleep on election night 2004 and my mother could NOT wait to gloat about bush being (s)elected again. My husband had to tell her it was not a good time since I was upset about my cat. Yeesh. RIP mom - I love ya.
I feel your concern. I really do. You are entitled to your opinions and they, theirs. It's possible to get along - just kind of have to set those limits and stick to them and don't be afraid to call out those who won't do that.
posted by Mysticalchick at 11:28 AM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've got right-wing FOX-drone family members (both parents and a brother). Personally, I'm just to the left of Mao. The way that I avoid arguments is as follows:
1. We try to agree that we disagree.
2. We try to avoid discussions of politics/policy because we've learned that they just incite arguments. See #1.
3. I don't try to change them because it's no use. They don't try to change me because it's no use.
4. If one or the other crosses the DMZ (#1-3 above; typically my family making a snide comment), I simply say, "We've been down this road before ... it leads nowhere. If you're looking to pick a fight, that's fine. I'll just leave now and come back when you're less ornery."
The only way that you personally are going to get through this is to rise above it and accept them for who they are. Whether or not they accept you for who you are is immaterial, unless you're interested in being estranged. Don't pity them. Don't condescend. Don't belittle them. Just accept that this is their belief system, that it's not yours, and then move it. Treat it like MetaFilter.
As for kids, I've found in my experience that most grandparents love their grandchildren, regardless of country of origin, color of skin, ethnicity, religion, etc. If you do undertake a transracial adoption, you'll certainly know whether or not your family is sincere about their feelings on race. If anything, I'd expect that having a grandchild who looks different from them will make them more, not less, colorblind.
posted by scblackman at 11:29 AM on August 31, 2010 [6 favorites]
1. We try to agree that we disagree.
2. We try to avoid discussions of politics/policy because we've learned that they just incite arguments. See #1.
3. I don't try to change them because it's no use. They don't try to change me because it's no use.
4. If one or the other crosses the DMZ (#1-3 above; typically my family making a snide comment), I simply say, "We've been down this road before ... it leads nowhere. If you're looking to pick a fight, that's fine. I'll just leave now and come back when you're less ornery."
The only way that you personally are going to get through this is to rise above it and accept them for who they are. Whether or not they accept you for who you are is immaterial, unless you're interested in being estranged. Don't pity them. Don't condescend. Don't belittle them. Just accept that this is their belief system, that it's not yours, and then move it. Treat it like MetaFilter.
As for kids, I've found in my experience that most grandparents love their grandchildren, regardless of country of origin, color of skin, ethnicity, religion, etc. If you do undertake a transracial adoption, you'll certainly know whether or not your family is sincere about their feelings on race. If anything, I'd expect that having a grandchild who looks different from them will make them more, not less, colorblind.
posted by scblackman at 11:29 AM on August 31, 2010 [6 favorites]
Um, that's "move on", not "move it".
posted by scblackman at 11:31 AM on August 31, 2010
posted by scblackman at 11:31 AM on August 31, 2010
Liberals tend to throw the word "racist" around pretty liberally. Don't want the ground zero mosque, "racists"; OJ was guilty, "racist"; don't believe in Keynesian economics, "racist." When your parents hear it from you it is automatically dismissed as the rantings of someone that cant make a cogent defense of their ideals and instead resort to name calling.
posted by otto42 at 11:32 AM on August 31, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by otto42 at 11:32 AM on August 31, 2010 [10 favorites]
Glenn Beck sucks, but being a fan of his doesn't mean that your mother is a racist and/or will be unloving to your adopted child.
posted by k8t at 11:32 AM on August 31, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by k8t at 11:32 AM on August 31, 2010 [5 favorites]
"Mom and Dad, if we have to discuss politics, please leave Glenn Beck out of it. I'm interested in your personal views, not what some celebrity who is paid to get people riled up is saying."
posted by bonsai forest at 11:35 AM on August 31, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by bonsai forest at 11:35 AM on August 31, 2010 [6 favorites]
Perhaps point out that you tolerate their extremist views and they're free to do whatever they want behind closed doors but that you'd prefer it if they kept their agenda away from your family.
posted by rocco at 11:36 AM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by rocco at 11:36 AM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
...wondering if anyone else on the Green has dealt successfully with working through a similar situation.
Nope! My grandmother has hardly spoken to me in over a year (we used to talk on the phone at least once a week) because my boyfriend is (a non-religious, born-in-America) Iranian.
Thankfully, the rest of my family isn't that horrible, but I'm not getting a whole lot of sympathy from them on the Grandmother-hates-me-now front (there's a lot of "she's just old and grew up in a different time!" bullshit).
It sucks a lot, yes, but your family is not going to change. My advice would be to not engage them in conversation about this issue. When your child is around, the first comment they make that is not OK with you, say, "please, that needs to stop now." The second time, pack up and go home. Let them know that their visits with you and their grandchild will be over each and every time they refuse to play by the rules.
Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 11:41 AM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Nope! My grandmother has hardly spoken to me in over a year (we used to talk on the phone at least once a week) because my boyfriend is (a non-religious, born-in-America) Iranian.
Thankfully, the rest of my family isn't that horrible, but I'm not getting a whole lot of sympathy from them on the Grandmother-hates-me-now front (there's a lot of "she's just old and grew up in a different time!" bullshit).
It sucks a lot, yes, but your family is not going to change. My advice would be to not engage them in conversation about this issue. When your child is around, the first comment they make that is not OK with you, say, "please, that needs to stop now." The second time, pack up and go home. Let them know that their visits with you and their grandchild will be over each and every time they refuse to play by the rules.
Good luck.
posted by phunniemee at 11:41 AM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think the TV being on all the time is a distinct problem, adding static to the right-wing-specific problem. I'd like to see a separate question about what to do about people you need to visit when they keep the TV on all the time. Maybe a simple: "Would you mind if I turned off the TV so we can talk?"
Anyway, with that aside, here's my answer. The easiest thing is to say "Let's not talk about politics." Plan to say it in a completely friendly way without putting any of your irritation into it. But I also have 2 less easy ideas:
1. Debate about politics in a friendly way. Don't worry about changing their mind. Don't bother getting emotional about it. Abandon concerns about whether they are somehow bad people for thinking the way they do. Just say what you think when they say what they think. Say it with a smile and remember the importance of your relationship with them. Interview them: Why do you think that? Ask in the spirit of actually caring what they think as opposed to a challenge about why they are so bad/dumb/whatever.
2. Put aside all your preconceptions and listen to Glenn Beck (or Rush Limbaugh) on your own for a week or a month. Listen as if you didn't already have an opinion or as if you genuinely liked them. Try to understand how people who listen all the time feel. You're a liberal: Empathize! These are real human beings. Be interested in them as human beings. You may come to respect Beck/Limbaugh for the way they assemble and explain ideas to people. Then bring that with you into the family.
posted by Alizaria at 11:41 AM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
Anyway, with that aside, here's my answer. The easiest thing is to say "Let's not talk about politics." Plan to say it in a completely friendly way without putting any of your irritation into it. But I also have 2 less easy ideas:
1. Debate about politics in a friendly way. Don't worry about changing their mind. Don't bother getting emotional about it. Abandon concerns about whether they are somehow bad people for thinking the way they do. Just say what you think when they say what they think. Say it with a smile and remember the importance of your relationship with them. Interview them: Why do you think that? Ask in the spirit of actually caring what they think as opposed to a challenge about why they are so bad/dumb/whatever.
2. Put aside all your preconceptions and listen to Glenn Beck (or Rush Limbaugh) on your own for a week or a month. Listen as if you didn't already have an opinion or as if you genuinely liked them. Try to understand how people who listen all the time feel. You're a liberal: Empathize! These are real human beings. Be interested in them as human beings. You may come to respect Beck/Limbaugh for the way they assemble and explain ideas to people. Then bring that with you into the family.
posted by Alizaria at 11:41 AM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
It seems important to point out that in the OP she doesn't state that she called her mother a racist; she called Glenn Beck a racist and her mother responded by asserting that she wasn't a racist herself and that she wasn't supporting racism by supporting Glenn Beck.
posted by XMLicious at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2010
posted by XMLicious at 11:43 AM on August 31, 2010
I can't address the trans-racial adoption part of your question, but otherwise I am very familiar with your situation. It makes me sad. My younger brother posts things on Facebook like, "Glenn Beck is the only intellectually honest commentator on TV." and it makes my heart race and my hands shake every time. The really sad thing is that most people in my family are fairly intelligent, but they are fearful and angry people in general, not just politically, and guys like Beck and Limbaugh feed on those emotions.
I deal with it by avoiding as much talk of politics with them as possible. I used to harbor the hope that I could change their mind but I gave up on that a long time ago. I try to cultivate an impartial observer mindset when I'm around them, I ask questions, and if possible find something in what they're saying that I can agree with or relate to. They still think I'm a Godless communist, but at least it wards off a big fight.
One thing I will say about possible racist attitudes toward your child: a lot of times people have certain attitudes about groups of people, but when it comes to individuals it's a different story. Especially a grandchild. I would wait and see how they are, and lay down boundaries accordingly. It's possible that having a grandchild of a different race may be the thing to really change their minds and make them think about the things they say and do.
posted by cottonswab at 11:45 AM on August 31, 2010
I deal with it by avoiding as much talk of politics with them as possible. I used to harbor the hope that I could change their mind but I gave up on that a long time ago. I try to cultivate an impartial observer mindset when I'm around them, I ask questions, and if possible find something in what they're saying that I can agree with or relate to. They still think I'm a Godless communist, but at least it wards off a big fight.
One thing I will say about possible racist attitudes toward your child: a lot of times people have certain attitudes about groups of people, but when it comes to individuals it's a different story. Especially a grandchild. I would wait and see how they are, and lay down boundaries accordingly. It's possible that having a grandchild of a different race may be the thing to really change their minds and make them think about the things they say and do.
posted by cottonswab at 11:45 AM on August 31, 2010
We're in the process of getting licensed to adopt from foster care, so there's a decent chance our kid will be a different race. Some of my family have similar political views to your family (his family is blessedly a bunch of saints). We don't expect to change their views, but we will have a zero tolerance policy around our child (no matter what his race).
As we prepare for our eventual child, we talk a lot about how great it is that they'll have another grandchild, and let's go to the zoo! and the museum! and all the fun stuff that grandparents can do with their grandkid. The point is so they see him as a kid, as a part of the family like the other kids, and not as a member of $race. Hopefully that will open up their eyes to see that not all members of $race are $characteristic, but it may not. In any case, they will STFU around our kid or they won't be seeing said kid.
Currently we just act like we don't know wtf they're talking about because they must be mistaken. Surely no informed person would say such a thing, so we give them the correct information ("actually, there's already a mosque a few blocks away.."). It's easy to do since you already know what the right-wing talking points are going to be. We don't get into protracted arguments and we don't try to humiliate them with their ignorance. We don't let ourselves get baited.
Just change the subject when Beck et al come up. There's no reason at all to discuss it now, and surely you have other things to talk about.
posted by desjardins at 11:47 AM on August 31, 2010
As we prepare for our eventual child, we talk a lot about how great it is that they'll have another grandchild, and let's go to the zoo! and the museum! and all the fun stuff that grandparents can do with their grandkid. The point is so they see him as a kid, as a part of the family like the other kids, and not as a member of $race. Hopefully that will open up their eyes to see that not all members of $race are $characteristic, but it may not. In any case, they will STFU around our kid or they won't be seeing said kid.
Currently we just act like we don't know wtf they're talking about because they must be mistaken. Surely no informed person would say such a thing, so we give them the correct information ("actually, there's already a mosque a few blocks away.."). It's easy to do since you already know what the right-wing talking points are going to be. We don't get into protracted arguments and we don't try to humiliate them with their ignorance. We don't let ourselves get baited.
Just change the subject when Beck et al come up. There's no reason at all to discuss it now, and surely you have other things to talk about.
posted by desjardins at 11:47 AM on August 31, 2010
Response by poster: Okay, just to clarify, I am not attaching issues re: racism to my parents just because they watch Fox News or Glenn Beck. This is about 40 years of comments, stories, stereotyping, and history that I have with them. Sorry that I didn't make that more clear.
Yes, I have friends who are Republicans and who I do not consider to be racist.
The Glenn Beck rally was the spark that ignited the tension I was feeling about dealing with my family months away from a transracial adoption.
posted by jeanmari at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2010
Yes, I have friends who are Republicans and who I do not consider to be racist.
The Glenn Beck rally was the spark that ignited the tension I was feeling about dealing with my family months away from a transracial adoption.
posted by jeanmari at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2010
I'm a libertarian Mormon in a family with extreme liberals (*), people who think Glenn Beck is both too soft and too restrained, and, just to make it wacky, people who get incensed at the mere mention of politics or religion. Oh, and some people think I'm more or less in a cult (to the point of having sent me to psychiatrists when I wanted to join the church.) Plus at least one person believes in astrology and conspiracies and Tesla's source of unlimited energy (or whatever it is that makes him so worth talking about. Constantly.) Whee.
Talk about the stuff you have in common. If the conversation goes places you're not happy with, stop participating - that doesn't mean shut up, that means changing the subject, walking away, asking to agree to disagree, whatever. Stop spending time judging the other people on the things you won't agree on. Teach your children to do the same. Ask that you be treated in the same way. Be a part of the solution. Be the only part, if you have to.
I think half the policies my closest family members advocate would be the worst things ever to befall the body politic. They think half of my beliefs are revolting. I'll probably be baptized by proxy for them when they die. They'll probably be ready to throw a fit when they find out. ^_^ We still hug each other and go to the Grand Canyon together and exchange Christmas cards and even manage to buy one another non-offensive birthday gifts. It can be done. Most people love their family members despite politics, not because of politics. That applies double extra twice-over to grandchildren and grandparents.
(*) As in, yeah, they hated Stalin, and no one actually joined the Party as far as I can determine, but, well, I had a copy of the Little Red Book as a child for a reason.
posted by SMPA at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
Talk about the stuff you have in common. If the conversation goes places you're not happy with, stop participating - that doesn't mean shut up, that means changing the subject, walking away, asking to agree to disagree, whatever. Stop spending time judging the other people on the things you won't agree on. Teach your children to do the same. Ask that you be treated in the same way. Be a part of the solution. Be the only part, if you have to.
I think half the policies my closest family members advocate would be the worst things ever to befall the body politic. They think half of my beliefs are revolting. I'll probably be baptized by proxy for them when they die. They'll probably be ready to throw a fit when they find out. ^_^ We still hug each other and go to the Grand Canyon together and exchange Christmas cards and even manage to buy one another non-offensive birthday gifts. It can be done. Most people love their family members despite politics, not because of politics. That applies double extra twice-over to grandchildren and grandparents.
(*) As in, yeah, they hated Stalin, and no one actually joined the Party as far as I can determine, but, well, I had a copy of the Little Red Book as a child for a reason.
posted by SMPA at 11:56 AM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think that the only way you can protect your adoptive child from your parents is to firewall them from him. It's not the answer that you wanted, and it sucks, but that's the answer.
What this boils down to is that we all have only a very limited power to change people. And, if you feel that your parents can't keep their politics from poisoning the air, there's not much that you can do to change that. But, then they shouldn't get time with their grandson.
Once you become a parent, your first, second, and third responsibilities are all to protect and provide for your child. It's a big change, and it always requires sacrifices of some sort.
posted by Citrus at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2010
What this boils down to is that we all have only a very limited power to change people. And, if you feel that your parents can't keep their politics from poisoning the air, there's not much that you can do to change that. But, then they shouldn't get time with their grandson.
Once you become a parent, your first, second, and third responsibilities are all to protect and provide for your child. It's a big change, and it always requires sacrifices of some sort.
posted by Citrus at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2010
Best answer: I work in a building where Beck and Palin are quite popular. Drives me batty.
You are not going to be able to convince your parents that your beliefs about Beck are correct. It's just not going to happen. Tilting at that windmill isn't going to get you anything but an ulcer.
I think that you'd probably make things a lot less tense for you and your family if you focused on clear examples of particular racist behaviors in them rather than getting upset about them liking of a media figure who you consider to be racist. Unless you can point to more than what seem to be rather vague worries about veiled racism, i.e. "What you said, right there, is racially charged," you're going to come off as oversensitive, especially if, on the face of it, the comment is racially neutral.
A lot of Beck fans really don't see the racial overtones of what he's doing. I'm no fan, but the vast majority of the time race is not actually mentioned as a specific topic, so if it isn't something you're looking for--or if you're actively not looking for it--it's pretty easy to miss. On the other hand, there's enough ideological squishiness that if you are looking for it, you can find racism a lot of places in Beck et al where it may not actually be.
Ultimately though, do you have any reason to believe that your parents are going to have any issues with your adoption? If they don't, then really, what's the problem? Getting worked up about things which have racial implications two or three steps down the logical chain seems to me to be borrowing trouble.
That being said, I think it's fair to set a "no politics" boundary for your family's interactions with your parents. Something along the lines of "Mom and Dad, you know we disagree about politics, and I don't want that conflict to affect our relationship as a family, particularly with the adoption coming up. So from now on, we're just not going to talk about politics while the kids are around." That would seem to be a reasonable compromise between allowing your parents to have their political persuasions while preserving your ability to raise your kid as you see fit.
If that isn't something you can do, your whole family may need to get out more. There are, believe it or not, more and even better things to talk about than politics.
posted by valkyryn at 12:02 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
You are not going to be able to convince your parents that your beliefs about Beck are correct. It's just not going to happen. Tilting at that windmill isn't going to get you anything but an ulcer.
I think that you'd probably make things a lot less tense for you and your family if you focused on clear examples of particular racist behaviors in them rather than getting upset about them liking of a media figure who you consider to be racist. Unless you can point to more than what seem to be rather vague worries about veiled racism, i.e. "What you said, right there, is racially charged," you're going to come off as oversensitive, especially if, on the face of it, the comment is racially neutral.
A lot of Beck fans really don't see the racial overtones of what he's doing. I'm no fan, but the vast majority of the time race is not actually mentioned as a specific topic, so if it isn't something you're looking for--or if you're actively not looking for it--it's pretty easy to miss. On the other hand, there's enough ideological squishiness that if you are looking for it, you can find racism a lot of places in Beck et al where it may not actually be.
Ultimately though, do you have any reason to believe that your parents are going to have any issues with your adoption? If they don't, then really, what's the problem? Getting worked up about things which have racial implications two or three steps down the logical chain seems to me to be borrowing trouble.
That being said, I think it's fair to set a "no politics" boundary for your family's interactions with your parents. Something along the lines of "Mom and Dad, you know we disagree about politics, and I don't want that conflict to affect our relationship as a family, particularly with the adoption coming up. So from now on, we're just not going to talk about politics while the kids are around." That would seem to be a reasonable compromise between allowing your parents to have their political persuasions while preserving your ability to raise your kid as you see fit.
If that isn't something you can do, your whole family may need to get out more. There are, believe it or not, more and even better things to talk about than politics.
posted by valkyryn at 12:02 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
(On preview, I know you say there are "40 years" of this kind of thing ... but the fact remains that you chose to spend several paragraphs on the Glenn Beck stuff as if it were the archetype that sums up that 40-year history. To the extent that my comment is off-point or missing the big picture, feel free to take it with a grain of salt as you see fit.)
Who cares if one of your your family members, or even all of your family members, think the Glenn Beck rally isn't racist? What does that have to do with your lives?
You're doing something that's very common among liberals (or, mirroring your terminology, I should say "left-wingers"): you're going out searching for "racism" because you apparently feel that if you can identify an extraordinary number of instances of it, this will signify that you're a better person than certain other people. Thus, aha! Glenn Beck is racist because he co-opted symbols from Martin Luther King. And by the way, anyone who denies this observation is racist as well.
Haven't you ever noticed that Obama is always co-opting historic symbols and events that are loosely (if at all) related to the topic at hand? He seems able to connect any item on his political agenda to the abolition of slavery, the civil rights movement, or going to the moon. I'm not saying this to put down Obama (for whom I enthusiastically voted and caucused); my point is that this is an extremely mundane, hackneyed political tactic. Let's face it: these trumped-up historical parallels in the speeches of politicians and talk-show hosts don't mean much of anything. I don't think it's racist when Obama or Beck or anyone does it. Does that make me racist? I don't think so.
You seem to have defined yourself as racially enlightened and others in your family (and the country) as racially ignorant. It's far from clear to me that your family members are racist or ignorant of racial issues, and it's far from clear to me that you're more racially enlightened than they are. Have you ever read what John McWhorter or Richard Thompson Ford or Bill Cosby has to say about race in present-day America? Maybe expanding your mind by reading perspectives that are outside your ideological comfort zone on race would help to see that it's possible to be out of step with predictable leftist orthodoxy on race, without being racist.
You might think your mom's points about her open-mindedness amount to nothing more than the cliche "Some of my best friends are ____." Well, you know what? While it is cliche and trite to use "Some of my best friends..." (or variations thereon) in a debate about race, there is some truth to it. If she seems generally non-racist in her life, the fact that she disagrees with you when the two of you step into the roles of amateur political pundits just doesn't matter much. If she starts acting in a way that's actually racist with respect your child or anyone you care about, then start making it an issue. Right now, it seems like you're looking for racism -- and desperate to find it anywhere you possible can. And why? Probably more as an exercise in your own self-righteousness than as a vehicle for actually helping anyone. That may win you points in certain liberal circles, but it's not the best way to relate to your family.
posted by John Cohen at 12:03 PM on August 31, 2010 [6 favorites]
Who cares if one of your your family members, or even all of your family members, think the Glenn Beck rally isn't racist? What does that have to do with your lives?
You're doing something that's very common among liberals (or, mirroring your terminology, I should say "left-wingers"): you're going out searching for "racism" because you apparently feel that if you can identify an extraordinary number of instances of it, this will signify that you're a better person than certain other people. Thus, aha! Glenn Beck is racist because he co-opted symbols from Martin Luther King. And by the way, anyone who denies this observation is racist as well.
Haven't you ever noticed that Obama is always co-opting historic symbols and events that are loosely (if at all) related to the topic at hand? He seems able to connect any item on his political agenda to the abolition of slavery, the civil rights movement, or going to the moon. I'm not saying this to put down Obama (for whom I enthusiastically voted and caucused); my point is that this is an extremely mundane, hackneyed political tactic. Let's face it: these trumped-up historical parallels in the speeches of politicians and talk-show hosts don't mean much of anything. I don't think it's racist when Obama or Beck or anyone does it. Does that make me racist? I don't think so.
You seem to have defined yourself as racially enlightened and others in your family (and the country) as racially ignorant. It's far from clear to me that your family members are racist or ignorant of racial issues, and it's far from clear to me that you're more racially enlightened than they are. Have you ever read what John McWhorter or Richard Thompson Ford or Bill Cosby has to say about race in present-day America? Maybe expanding your mind by reading perspectives that are outside your ideological comfort zone on race would help to see that it's possible to be out of step with predictable leftist orthodoxy on race, without being racist.
You might think your mom's points about her open-mindedness amount to nothing more than the cliche "Some of my best friends are ____." Well, you know what? While it is cliche and trite to use "Some of my best friends..." (or variations thereon) in a debate about race, there is some truth to it. If she seems generally non-racist in her life, the fact that she disagrees with you when the two of you step into the roles of amateur political pundits just doesn't matter much. If she starts acting in a way that's actually racist with respect your child or anyone you care about, then start making it an issue. Right now, it seems like you're looking for racism -- and desperate to find it anywhere you possible can. And why? Probably more as an exercise in your own self-righteousness than as a vehicle for actually helping anyone. That may win you points in certain liberal circles, but it's not the best way to relate to your family.
posted by John Cohen at 12:03 PM on August 31, 2010 [6 favorites]
It seems important to point out that in the OP she doesn't state that she called her mother a racist; she called Glenn Beck a racist and her mother responded by asserting that she wasn't a racist herself and that she wasn't supporting racism by supporting Glenn Beck.
Yes, but the OP must be somewhat concerned, as the issue is: How do I navigate racial politics with my family before our transracial adoption/Whether I need to fight the battle to educate my family about racial issues prior to this adoption being finalized
To me, that sounds like the OP is worried about his/her parents racial views despite the mother explaining that she isn't racist. The fact she had to explain it to OP, sounds like the OP accused the mother of this already just because she has a different political view and likes Glenn Beck.
posted by KogeLiz at 12:05 PM on August 31, 2010
Yes, but the OP must be somewhat concerned, as the issue is: How do I navigate racial politics with my family before our transracial adoption/Whether I need to fight the battle to educate my family about racial issues prior to this adoption being finalized
To me, that sounds like the OP is worried about his/her parents racial views despite the mother explaining that she isn't racist. The fact she had to explain it to OP, sounds like the OP accused the mother of this already just because she has a different political view and likes Glenn Beck.
posted by KogeLiz at 12:05 PM on August 31, 2010
Best answer: I'm white. My husband is black. We are liberal atheists. My mother is a devoted Beck fan and she is, in fact, extremely racist. My mother thinks that I represent everything wrong with the US and I feel the exact same way about her. There's no bridging that divide.
The only way we maintain even the fragilest of relationships is by not discussing anything related to politics, weather (because global warming is a liberal hoax), popular culture (the secret gay agenda is ruining Hollywood), religion (ZOMG MUSLIMS), etc. Essentially, we talk about family history, family members, and our pets. That's it. If she starts breaching the conversational boundaries, I leave or hang up the phone. In the beginning, I left a lot. Now she realizes that I will not hesitate to bail and so she controls herself.
My husband and I don't have children right now, but we hope to eventually and I have to say that I don't think I'll feel comfortable leaving my kids alone with her. Maybe when they're teenagers.
posted by crankylex at 12:12 PM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
The only way we maintain even the fragilest of relationships is by not discussing anything related to politics, weather (because global warming is a liberal hoax), popular culture (the secret gay agenda is ruining Hollywood), religion (ZOMG MUSLIMS), etc. Essentially, we talk about family history, family members, and our pets. That's it. If she starts breaching the conversational boundaries, I leave or hang up the phone. In the beginning, I left a lot. Now she realizes that I will not hesitate to bail and so she controls herself.
My husband and I don't have children right now, but we hope to eventually and I have to say that I don't think I'll feel comfortable leaving my kids alone with her. Maybe when they're teenagers.
posted by crankylex at 12:12 PM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
Despite Fox News constantly droning in the background is it completely impossible to avoid political discussions with your parents? If not explain that you both already understand each other's ideas but some of their perspectives make you uncomfortable, so you'd rather not debate. Besides any political affiliations (which doesn't make her racist) has your mother done/ said anything sketchy you noticed that raised a red flag (shady comments about your adoption?) If not then most likely you don't have a problem. If your mother doesn't actually demonstrate racist behaviors then you could feel secure enough that she'll adore her new grandchild as much as she says.
posted by xbeautychicx at 12:12 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by xbeautychicx at 12:12 PM on August 31, 2010
There are lots of reasons to despise Glen Beck besides his views on race.
This. If someone asked me why Glen Beck and his followers are fools, racism wouldn't even occur to me. I occasionally get into conversation with people like your parents, but I'm careful to focus the discussion on policies (and the fact that Beck rarely actually espouses any) and ask them to explain the specifics behind their bumper sticker slogans ("Restore honor!", "Small government!").
The subject usually changes pretty quickly.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:13 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
This. If someone asked me why Glen Beck and his followers are fools, racism wouldn't even occur to me. I occasionally get into conversation with people like your parents, but I'm careful to focus the discussion on policies (and the fact that Beck rarely actually espouses any) and ask them to explain the specifics behind their bumper sticker slogans ("Restore honor!", "Small government!").
The subject usually changes pretty quickly.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:13 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
My partner and I are white, and we adopted transracially three years ago. I honestly did not know whether this might lead to a breach with my family, if they were unable to accept her either because she was black or she was adopted. I was prepared to walk out and never go back the first time somebody said something racist.
To my astonishment, they have embraced her whole-heartedly, find her charming, have her picture up with the other grandkids', treat her just like the other grandkids. I'm not making any crazy predictions about your parents. I'm just saying that, wow, I was pleasantly surprised. And glad I didn't spend a lot of energy trying to figure out what I was going to do before we brought the baby home, because it would have been wasted.
In the last few years, my relationship with my parents has improved a lot. Part of this is that they've been nicer to me, for some reason, than they used to be. But part of it is that I have, as people up-thread have said, tried to focus on what is admirable about my parents and what we have in common. We have a similar sense of humor, they're very hard-working and committed to their children and grandchildren, and so on. It can't be denied that they are also judgmental and controlling, and that I'm something of a sport and have felt unaccepted by them since childhood. But that's all old news, it's not likely to change at this point (I'm almost 34, and they're in their late 70s), and I've gotten to a point where I can accept that more and really enjoy being with them and appreciate what's good about them.
But we don't talk about politics anymore.
posted by not that girl at 12:15 PM on August 31, 2010
To my astonishment, they have embraced her whole-heartedly, find her charming, have her picture up with the other grandkids', treat her just like the other grandkids. I'm not making any crazy predictions about your parents. I'm just saying that, wow, I was pleasantly surprised. And glad I didn't spend a lot of energy trying to figure out what I was going to do before we brought the baby home, because it would have been wasted.
In the last few years, my relationship with my parents has improved a lot. Part of this is that they've been nicer to me, for some reason, than they used to be. But part of it is that I have, as people up-thread have said, tried to focus on what is admirable about my parents and what we have in common. We have a similar sense of humor, they're very hard-working and committed to their children and grandchildren, and so on. It can't be denied that they are also judgmental and controlling, and that I'm something of a sport and have felt unaccepted by them since childhood. But that's all old news, it's not likely to change at this point (I'm almost 34, and they're in their late 70s), and I've gotten to a point where I can accept that more and really enjoy being with them and appreciate what's good about them.
But we don't talk about politics anymore.
posted by not that girl at 12:15 PM on August 31, 2010
Response by poster: I did not call Glenn Beck a racist. Though I did tell her that I believe that some of what he says could be construed as racist. I don't care whether Glenn Beck is racist. I care whether my family members say things around my children, or fail to defend them if things are said around them.
I have been party to conversations where racist comments have been made in my family since I was a small child. From my grandfather, my uncles, my cousins, my own parents. When I protested to a parent, I was told to "don't rock the boat, don't confront". Some of what I heard was overt, some of it was implied. But it was pretty pervasive and common in the family culture. I moved far away from everyone else to escape a lot of other dysfunction, wish things were different, and that I didn't feel like an outsider from everyone else. That I had at least one family member who I could sit with at reunions, who didn't think that I was looney for having the values that I do. But, there you go. I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't depress me. But it is what it is and for many years I didn't really have to deal with it.
However, I think valkyryn has nailed it. Perhaps I'm using (or mis-using) the recent Glenn Beck kerfluffle to breach a subject that I feel it is difficult to talk about with my family...my fears about how they will act or what they will say around my children. Perhaps it's easier for me to have talked about someone out there versus someone in here. After all, it's been easier to talk about my perception of a third-party's behavior that alarms me than confront my parents.
I think that you'd probably make things a lot less tense for you and your family if you focused on clear examples of particular racist behaviors in them rather than getting upset about them liking of a media figure who you consider to be racist. Unless you can point to more than what seem to be rather vague worries about veiled racism, i.e. "What you said, right there, is racially charged," you're going to come off as oversensitive, especially if, on the face of it, the comment is racially neutral.
posted by jeanmari at 12:30 PM on August 31, 2010
I have been party to conversations where racist comments have been made in my family since I was a small child. From my grandfather, my uncles, my cousins, my own parents. When I protested to a parent, I was told to "don't rock the boat, don't confront". Some of what I heard was overt, some of it was implied. But it was pretty pervasive and common in the family culture. I moved far away from everyone else to escape a lot of other dysfunction, wish things were different, and that I didn't feel like an outsider from everyone else. That I had at least one family member who I could sit with at reunions, who didn't think that I was looney for having the values that I do. But, there you go. I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't depress me. But it is what it is and for many years I didn't really have to deal with it.
However, I think valkyryn has nailed it. Perhaps I'm using (or mis-using) the recent Glenn Beck kerfluffle to breach a subject that I feel it is difficult to talk about with my family...my fears about how they will act or what they will say around my children. Perhaps it's easier for me to have talked about someone out there versus someone in here. After all, it's been easier to talk about my perception of a third-party's behavior that alarms me than confront my parents.
I think that you'd probably make things a lot less tense for you and your family if you focused on clear examples of particular racist behaviors in them rather than getting upset about them liking of a media figure who you consider to be racist. Unless you can point to more than what seem to be rather vague worries about veiled racism, i.e. "What you said, right there, is racially charged," you're going to come off as oversensitive, especially if, on the face of it, the comment is racially neutral.
posted by jeanmari at 12:30 PM on August 31, 2010
Best answer: I think you need to decide what your concern is. My parents, and much of my family, are pretty right wing. I'm not. We engage in lively debate that often turns into shouting or results in tears. But we keep doing it, mostly because at least when it starts, its under the guise of being reasonable with each other. Now that there's a kid involved, I often wonder if my attitude will change. I don't want my kid to see us fighting, but I do think it's good for kids to see and hear grownups disagreeing with each other. I think it is important that our children, someday, draw their own conclusions, and if she turns into a right-wing republican, well, I'll love her anyway. I'll debate the issues passionately with her, I hope, as well.
What I don't want is for my daughter to get the impression that hatred and bigotry are okay. (I don't think she'd get this from my parents or family, really). I also don't want to protect her from the fact that there are people out there who are haters and bigots. So, I have thought a lot about how I would deal with things. For instance, if my grandma was still alive (who was born in 1896!), and she was using the N word or something, I would have a discussion with my daughter about the word, and why it wasn't okay to use it, etc etc. So, if my parents say something I just completely disagree with, I will tell her: nana and papa feel that way, but your parents don't, and here's why. Obviously you can't do that when they're tiny, but I think you can do it younger than most people think.
To the extent this is about race specifically, you might find the chapter of the book "nurtureshock" on race interesting. It basically says that by trying not to talk about race, with the best of intentions (because everyone is the same, so there's no need to talk about it right?), parents aren't getting the results they want. So, I think that there's some lessons your kids can learn from your relationship with your parents (if it works this way): people can disagree and still love each other, even if the disagreements are big; you'll still love your kids even if they disagree with you; race is something that people have feelings about and is worth discussing.
In other words, I think, give your parents a chance to be better than you think they are; be willing to discuss things with your kids when they aren't; and be very careful about deciding to cut them out of your kids lives (not that you say you will). The love I got from my grandma was more than an offset to whatever crazy things she said (and there were some - I mean, she was born in the 1800s!! But most of her crazy stuff had to do with being Catholic, not being white).
(boy, that was rambly)
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:39 PM on August 31, 2010
What I don't want is for my daughter to get the impression that hatred and bigotry are okay. (I don't think she'd get this from my parents or family, really). I also don't want to protect her from the fact that there are people out there who are haters and bigots. So, I have thought a lot about how I would deal with things. For instance, if my grandma was still alive (who was born in 1896!), and she was using the N word or something, I would have a discussion with my daughter about the word, and why it wasn't okay to use it, etc etc. So, if my parents say something I just completely disagree with, I will tell her: nana and papa feel that way, but your parents don't, and here's why. Obviously you can't do that when they're tiny, but I think you can do it younger than most people think.
To the extent this is about race specifically, you might find the chapter of the book "nurtureshock" on race interesting. It basically says that by trying not to talk about race, with the best of intentions (because everyone is the same, so there's no need to talk about it right?), parents aren't getting the results they want. So, I think that there's some lessons your kids can learn from your relationship with your parents (if it works this way): people can disagree and still love each other, even if the disagreements are big; you'll still love your kids even if they disagree with you; race is something that people have feelings about and is worth discussing.
In other words, I think, give your parents a chance to be better than you think they are; be willing to discuss things with your kids when they aren't; and be very careful about deciding to cut them out of your kids lives (not that you say you will). The love I got from my grandma was more than an offset to whatever crazy things she said (and there were some - I mean, she was born in the 1800s!! But most of her crazy stuff had to do with being Catholic, not being white).
(boy, that was rambly)
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:39 PM on August 31, 2010
Best answer: The transracial adoption thing is a red herring. This is your child. You don't want people spouting off hate speech in front of your kid. In the same way you wouldn't want someone teaching your child to lie or to steal.
If you don't want your child exposed to something, you pick up your kid and leave. If your Mom is at your house, then show her to the door. It's not a big fight, it's just "It's time for you to head home Mom. We'll try another visit in a few weeks."
Top priority is raising your child. Trying to get Mom to agree with you doesn't really matter. You aren't going to win that argument anyway. It's strictly about having your family support your parenting choices.
posted by 26.2 at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2010
If you don't want your child exposed to something, you pick up your kid and leave. If your Mom is at your house, then show her to the door. It's not a big fight, it's just "It's time for you to head home Mom. We'll try another visit in a few weeks."
Top priority is raising your child. Trying to get Mom to agree with you doesn't really matter. You aren't going to win that argument anyway. It's strictly about having your family support your parenting choices.
posted by 26.2 at 12:53 PM on August 31, 2010
Also, there is always the option to not be around your family with or without your child.
posted by k8t at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by k8t at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2010
Are you adopting a baby or an older child? If you're adopting a baby, you can introduce your child to your parents and if they make racist comments, the baby won't know and won't be harmed. Your parents might surprise you. I think it will be difficult for them to resist loving their new grandchild.
If they do end up saying nasty things about people of your child's race, then you really might have to completely distance yourself from them. I say to at least give them a chance though.
You will never agree with their political leanings. You might want to try to be tolerant of their political beliefs (although not the racism). You see the world one way, they see it another. As long as they aren't doing hurtful things to others (including making hurtful comments about race), their political opinions are just as valid as yours.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:36 PM on August 31, 2010
If they do end up saying nasty things about people of your child's race, then you really might have to completely distance yourself from them. I say to at least give them a chance though.
You will never agree with their political leanings. You might want to try to be tolerant of their political beliefs (although not the racism). You see the world one way, they see it another. As long as they aren't doing hurtful things to others (including making hurtful comments about race), their political opinions are just as valid as yours.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:36 PM on August 31, 2010
What does 'right-wing' politics have to do with anything? If your parents are racist they are racist. Being racist and being 'right-wing' are two completely different things. You could have asked your question easily without ever deciding to label 'right-wing' people as racist.
It's come as a massive shock to me that I am prejudice against other races as a result of my opinions on taxation, the size of government etc.
posted by daveirl at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
It's come as a massive shock to me that I am prejudice against other races as a result of my opinions on taxation, the size of government etc.
posted by daveirl at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I've struggled for about an hour to come up with something to say that isn't all anecdote filled, or just rehashes what's been said above. What I can add is that although our grand-parental problems were not the same as yours, we had to fairly consistently confront racist attitudes, language, comments--and what we did was to always just as consistently ask that they not use that language around our kids. We made that a ground rule, no exceptions. Political discussions, sure they can raise hackles, but we have always relished a good argument and if you can't have a good argument around Beck & Palin, then you aren't really trying.
I know that some of my relatives are racist--some small "r" some big "R"--and I can tell you that racism does not have political boundaries. At one time, I subscribed to the school of thought put into song by The Specials: If you have a racist friend, now is the time for that friendship to end. I'm much older now, and while that would hold true with casual friends or acquaintances, I have relatives & friends that I can't just end relationships with, but I still do call them on every time they try to assume that I think like they do because I am white.
I wish you much luck. Your mom, with whom it seems you have your most pressing challenge, should be given ample opportunity to prove her assertions that she is not a racist. She will have plenty of time to do so.
posted by beelzbubba at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know that some of my relatives are racist--some small "r" some big "R"--and I can tell you that racism does not have political boundaries. At one time, I subscribed to the school of thought put into song by The Specials: If you have a racist friend, now is the time for that friendship to end. I'm much older now, and while that would hold true with casual friends or acquaintances, I have relatives & friends that I can't just end relationships with, but I still do call them on every time they try to assume that I think like they do because I am white.
I wish you much luck. Your mom, with whom it seems you have your most pressing challenge, should be given ample opportunity to prove her assertions that she is not a racist. She will have plenty of time to do so.
posted by beelzbubba at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a Fox News-watching, Glenn Beck-loving, racist aunt and uncle. Politely and non-confrontationally suggesting that we avoid political subjects because neither side will ever convince the other has worked surprisingly well. Of course, aunt and uncle is a very different kind of relationship than parent. But the important thing for me to accept is that I cannot ever argue with them about the actual substance of a belief, no matter how tempting or infuriating. Politely nipping things in the bud and refusing to engage further is the only way to go for my family.
posted by Mavri at 2:24 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by Mavri at 2:24 PM on August 31, 2010
N'thing that conservative does not equal racist, "right-wing" does not equal racist, and "having at some point said something you construed as racially-charged" does not equal "likely to spew bigotry and hate in front of your innocent child."
With that said, of course if you hear your parents saying hateful things in front of your baby, then you'll be right to leave the situation, and possibly the relationship.
But having recently been there myself, I'd just caution you that it's awfully tempting, as a new or expecting parent, to become overzealous about asserting your own identity, opinions and parenting style, particularly in the face of disagreement from others. Your question and comments seem partly about your child, but partly also about you, and the way you feel your views aren't respected by your family.
I think that some insecurity on this score is natural for someone who's about to be a somebody's mom-- you're about to become the primary decision-maker in somebody's life, after all, and you feel tremendously protective and possessive of the little person that's about to be placed in your charge. But it's also easy to get territorial and defensive about your kid, and to polarize irrelevant differences into big, dangerous disagreements.
I'd encourage you to separate, as far as possible, your feelings about yourself-- your hurt feelings, your sadness that your parents don't respect your political views, your global sense that your opinions are Right-Thinking and deserving of promotion-- from your concrete fears about what's going to happen to your baby. Definitely protect the kid where necessary, but if your parents do turn out to be adoring and supportive grandparents in other respects, then it may be in the child's best interest, as well as your own, to let the politics go.
posted by Bardolph at 2:57 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
With that said, of course if you hear your parents saying hateful things in front of your baby, then you'll be right to leave the situation, and possibly the relationship.
But having recently been there myself, I'd just caution you that it's awfully tempting, as a new or expecting parent, to become overzealous about asserting your own identity, opinions and parenting style, particularly in the face of disagreement from others. Your question and comments seem partly about your child, but partly also about you, and the way you feel your views aren't respected by your family.
I think that some insecurity on this score is natural for someone who's about to be a somebody's mom-- you're about to become the primary decision-maker in somebody's life, after all, and you feel tremendously protective and possessive of the little person that's about to be placed in your charge. But it's also easy to get territorial and defensive about your kid, and to polarize irrelevant differences into big, dangerous disagreements.
I'd encourage you to separate, as far as possible, your feelings about yourself-- your hurt feelings, your sadness that your parents don't respect your political views, your global sense that your opinions are Right-Thinking and deserving of promotion-- from your concrete fears about what's going to happen to your baby. Definitely protect the kid where necessary, but if your parents do turn out to be adoring and supportive grandparents in other respects, then it may be in the child's best interest, as well as your own, to let the politics go.
posted by Bardolph at 2:57 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
Check it out. The key, which you've already run afoul of a little, is to be sure you're only ever having discussions about an individual thing that someone said. You avoid at all costs any discussion about what people are.
posted by Ragged Richard at 5:03 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ragged Richard at 5:03 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My comments are not about Glenn Beck or FOX news, but rather about raising a child of a different race. I'm white and my ex-partner is black. She has been the guardian of her (black) grandson, Andre, since he was around a year old. I've been a part of his life since he was born, and the three of us lived together from the time he was two-and-a-half until last summer. [I still see him for 2-3 weeks each year on vacations and a weekend a month or so when he's in school.]
When Andre was around 3 1/2, he started saying that he was white. He knew Grandma and Mommy were black, but he thought he was white. I'm not sure all the reasons for this, but one thing my partner pointed out was that all the picture books I'd been reading him (that I loved as a child), had white characters. I went on a book buying binge at Amazon to find some picture books with black characters. I didn't make a big deal about it -- I let him choose one or two books every night -- but we had picture books with different races in the house. One of our favorites was The Colors of Us.
I also started reading about transracial parenting (I'm Chocolate, You're Vanilla) and the experience of black and Asian kids brought up in white homes. IMHO, "color-blind" parenting is fine if you live in a "color-blind" world. We don't. If you're white, I would encourage you to check out books/blogs/etc... about trans-racial parenting.
I didn't realize how different things were for Black folks in small ways (what music we listened to) and large (how it felt to be called the N-word) until I heard my partner's experience of growing up Black in the same geography (SF Bay Area) and same time period (60s and 70s). Things are still different. My experience with the Portland Oregon and Santa Rosa Police department are much different than my 23 y/o (black) step-son.
posted by elmay at 5:56 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
When Andre was around 3 1/2, he started saying that he was white. He knew Grandma and Mommy were black, but he thought he was white. I'm not sure all the reasons for this, but one thing my partner pointed out was that all the picture books I'd been reading him (that I loved as a child), had white characters. I went on a book buying binge at Amazon to find some picture books with black characters. I didn't make a big deal about it -- I let him choose one or two books every night -- but we had picture books with different races in the house. One of our favorites was The Colors of Us.
I also started reading about transracial parenting (I'm Chocolate, You're Vanilla) and the experience of black and Asian kids brought up in white homes. IMHO, "color-blind" parenting is fine if you live in a "color-blind" world. We don't. If you're white, I would encourage you to check out books/blogs/etc... about trans-racial parenting.
I didn't realize how different things were for Black folks in small ways (what music we listened to) and large (how it felt to be called the N-word) until I heard my partner's experience of growing up Black in the same geography (SF Bay Area) and same time period (60s and 70s). Things are still different. My experience with the Portland Oregon and Santa Rosa Police department are much different than my 23 y/o (black) step-son.
posted by elmay at 5:56 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't worry too much about the child.
My parents in the past have been pretty racist to the point that they pretty much cut off my youngest child because she married outside her race. Fast forward to now...she and my lovely biracial grandchildren are staying at their house and everyone is having a grand time. Babies and children do tend to melt hearts and change them for the better.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:18 PM on August 31, 2010
My parents in the past have been pretty racist to the point that they pretty much cut off my youngest child because she married outside her race. Fast forward to now...she and my lovely biracial grandchildren are staying at their house and everyone is having a grand time. Babies and children do tend to melt hearts and change them for the better.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:18 PM on August 31, 2010
I think you're working yourself into a frenzy over things that haven't yet happened and might never happen. What your mother listens to on TV, and even what she says don't really matter. What matters are her actions. How does she act?
Forty years of comments and stories are all in the past--they're your baggage, and really have nothing to do with your child. How your parents acted towards you in the past don't always foretell how they'll act with your child.
If you can manage to have a calm conversation with them or one on one, you might try to calmly discuss your concerns. Bringing up Glenn Beck or Fox news is a canard, I think. Talk to them about what you remember and how you felt, and ask calmly, if they think they'd act in the same way with your child.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:48 PM on August 31, 2010
Forty years of comments and stories are all in the past--they're your baggage, and really have nothing to do with your child. How your parents acted towards you in the past don't always foretell how they'll act with your child.
If you can manage to have a calm conversation with them or one on one, you might try to calmly discuss your concerns. Bringing up Glenn Beck or Fox news is a canard, I think. Talk to them about what you remember and how you felt, and ask calmly, if they think they'd act in the same way with your child.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:48 PM on August 31, 2010
Response by poster: Although I didn't present my situation very well (obviously, I have quite a bit of emotion around the issue with my mother and it took a few unhappy hours of trying to figure out why I was so angry), finally just committing to writing this Ask Mefi question--as messy as it was--was very useful to my being able to think through just exactly what was bothering me. So, for those of you who were willing to give me benefit of the doubt and give me feedback, thank you. The outcome is that I've been having an honest, sometimes uncomfortable, but healing correspondence with my mother over the past few days. Where I've been able to clarify for her which specific actions in our shared past have me worried about the future. And where she has been able to reflect, attempt to see my point of view, apologize for some past events (a pleasant and gratefully accepted surprise), talk through how things would need to change in the future, and so on. So, thank you.
posted by jeanmari at 11:44 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jeanmari at 11:44 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
And when they start quoting people like Beck, I either leave the room or say, "i don't want to discuss politics".
It's ridiculous to think that just because someone likes Fox News/right-wing politics that they're racist.
My best friend is a minority, gay, likes (I should say, 'doesn't mind') Glenn Beck and is a republican.
You're narrow view about this is right on par with the narrow viewing Fox News fans.
posted by KogeLiz at 11:24 AM on August 31, 2010 [5 favorites]