To fling or not to fling?
August 27, 2010 10:32 AM Subscribe
How do I embrace the idea of a fling? Should I?
I met a cute, funny, smart guy last week. We had a great first date that ended with our making out massively. It felt fabulous be that turned on physically and intellectually. We both want another date to happen soon. So what's the problem? I'm 41 and I suspect that he could be 5 to 10 years younger than me. While I'd totally enjoy having what will no doubt be great sex with him, I don't know if I'm able to engage in a fling without having my feelings hurt when things inevitably end. Why do I think that? Wrongly or rightly, I assume he'll want to end up with someone he can marry and have children with, and my child-bearing years are waning.
How can I embrace the idea of a fling when I've always strived to be in monogamous relationships with long-term potential? Should I?
I'd like to have these thoughts somewhat sorted out before we meet again, so that we can proceed with abandon or that we can say adios without having lost too much emotionally (at least for me). But I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels.
Thank you all in advance for your feedback.
I met a cute, funny, smart guy last week. We had a great first date that ended with our making out massively. It felt fabulous be that turned on physically and intellectually. We both want another date to happen soon. So what's the problem? I'm 41 and I suspect that he could be 5 to 10 years younger than me. While I'd totally enjoy having what will no doubt be great sex with him, I don't know if I'm able to engage in a fling without having my feelings hurt when things inevitably end. Why do I think that? Wrongly or rightly, I assume he'll want to end up with someone he can marry and have children with, and my child-bearing years are waning.
How can I embrace the idea of a fling when I've always strived to be in monogamous relationships with long-term potential? Should I?
I'd like to have these thoughts somewhat sorted out before we meet again, so that we can proceed with abandon or that we can say adios without having lost too much emotionally (at least for me). But I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels.
Thank you all in advance for your feedback.
OMG you've just been handed a huge bar of the best chocolate ever and you're wondering if you should eat it right now because you know that you're going to want some dinner later?
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:38 AM on August 27, 2010 [33 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:38 AM on August 27, 2010 [33 favorites]
You've already decided to dump this guy? Pity. Sounds like he might have been cool.
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on August 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 10:39 AM on August 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
You're making a lot of assumptions before you even talk to the guy. You need to find out if you're on the same page. Maybe he doesn't want kids. Maybe he's open to egg donors, in vitro, or adoption. Maybe he's just really young-looking, but closer in age to you than you think. One thing I can say fairly confidently: don't just settle for a fling because you feel that's all you can get at your age. You'll be giving yourself a really shitty message if you do that. It's not true! And I say this as a 43-year-old childless-by-choice woman married to a 28-year-old childless-by-choice man.
posted by xenophile at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2010 [12 favorites]
posted by xenophile at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2010 [12 favorites]
Should I?
Not everyone can. This does not mean you are not in control of your emotions, or that you are weak or prudish or whatever crap is floating in the zeigeist about people who do not do friends-with-benefits, or one-night-stands or whatever. Don't do it if you don't genuinely want to have a ephemeral affair. Don't do it, or if you don't want to risk a blow to your emotions; even the people who can have flings at will risk them every single time. My friends who do this? Well, from what I can tell, they don't do it with people they find really really interesting and hot. There's a lot of risk there if you know it won't work, due to circumstance or whatever.
But I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels.
If you want it to be a fling, this isn't the best idea. Anecdata (and this surprisingly insightful Onion article) suggest you don't tend to have discussions of the depths of your emotions with someone you just want to screw. Little more needs to be said than "this is going to be a brief fling."
posted by griphus at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2010
Not everyone can. This does not mean you are not in control of your emotions, or that you are weak or prudish or whatever crap is floating in the zeigeist about people who do not do friends-with-benefits, or one-night-stands or whatever. Don't do it if you don't genuinely want to have a ephemeral affair. Don't do it, or if you don't want to risk a blow to your emotions; even the people who can have flings at will risk them every single time. My friends who do this? Well, from what I can tell, they don't do it with people they find really really interesting and hot. There's a lot of risk there if you know it won't work, due to circumstance or whatever.
But I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels.
If you want it to be a fling, this isn't the best idea. Anecdata (and this surprisingly insightful Onion article) suggest you don't tend to have discussions of the depths of your emotions with someone you just want to screw. Little more needs to be said than "this is going to be a brief fling."
posted by griphus at 10:40 AM on August 27, 2010
And on preview, seconding what everyone else before me said.
posted by xenophile at 10:41 AM on August 27, 2010
posted by xenophile at 10:41 AM on August 27, 2010
Don't assume, for one. He might not want kids, he might want kids, who knows? Only way to find out is to ask.
But also: Be up front about what you want. If you just want to have loads of fantastic sex, there's nothing wrong with that - in fact it's entirely wonderful - but you need to lay it out ahead of time. And then, after that?
Well, after that, you'll have a fling, it will be a lot of fun. If and when it ends, yeah, your feelings may be a little hurt, because partings are often like that. But if you've never had a fling before, then take it from me: It's worth it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:43 AM on August 27, 2010
But also: Be up front about what you want. If you just want to have loads of fantastic sex, there's nothing wrong with that - in fact it's entirely wonderful - but you need to lay it out ahead of time. And then, after that?
Well, after that, you'll have a fling, it will be a lot of fun. If and when it ends, yeah, your feelings may be a little hurt, because partings are often like that. But if you've never had a fling before, then take it from me: It's worth it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 10:43 AM on August 27, 2010
Uh, now that I've read others' comments, my advice assumes you have absolutely decided it will be a fling. Otherwise, don't let the numbers scare you. A 5-10 year difference at 41 still falls in the range of the half-plus-seven rule, at least.
posted by griphus at 10:46 AM on August 27, 2010
posted by griphus at 10:46 AM on August 27, 2010
I agree with griphus: (1) you may or may not be able to do this (though my primitive instinct is to say that you should go for it and determine whether you were able to later), and (2) your "open and honest discussion" sounds great in theory, but has a high freakout potential. The less said the better, unless you feel that it's essential to correct a misunderstanding that you believe the other party harbors.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 10:46 AM on August 27, 2010
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 10:46 AM on August 27, 2010
Whoa. Whoa whoa.
We're all afraid of getting hurt. Guess what? Even if he meets all your criteria (not concerned about you possibly bearing children biologically, likes the same things as you, isn't allergic to your cats or whatever, however long one's list is, and we all have this list), you might still get hurt!
That's the thing about dating and mating. There's no protecting yourself except with rejection--usually a preemptive rejection.
I submit--with kindness--that you are doing it wrong. You are making assumptions, for one thing, about what you think he wants. That is not a good play.
And I also think you are over-protecting yourself. Live a little. Rejection can hurt. But wouldn't you really rather have had a chance to explore, and find out, and let things develop naturally?
And maybe to have a good time?
I say that particularly because you two don't know each other. And if you both presented your demands at a two-person convention, I'm sure you won't meet each other's criteria! And then it's farewell. And it's rather dull, too! Meeting people is supposed to be fun!
I think you might find that these important conversations, if you see each other again, will occur in their proper time and place, quite naturally.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 10:49 AM on August 27, 2010 [13 favorites]
We're all afraid of getting hurt. Guess what? Even if he meets all your criteria (not concerned about you possibly bearing children biologically, likes the same things as you, isn't allergic to your cats or whatever, however long one's list is, and we all have this list), you might still get hurt!
That's the thing about dating and mating. There's no protecting yourself except with rejection--usually a preemptive rejection.
I submit--with kindness--that you are doing it wrong. You are making assumptions, for one thing, about what you think he wants. That is not a good play.
And I also think you are over-protecting yourself. Live a little. Rejection can hurt. But wouldn't you really rather have had a chance to explore, and find out, and let things develop naturally?
And maybe to have a good time?
I say that particularly because you two don't know each other. And if you both presented your demands at a two-person convention, I'm sure you won't meet each other's criteria! And then it's farewell. And it's rather dull, too! Meeting people is supposed to be fun!
I think you might find that these important conversations, if you see each other again, will occur in their proper time and place, quite naturally.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 10:49 AM on August 27, 2010 [13 favorites]
Some would argue that casual sex isn't for anyone, but I think everyone would agree that casual sex isn't for everyone.
Leaving ideology aside, it seems that you need to figure out what you want and whether having a "fling" with this guy is compatible with that. If what you're really looking for is a long-term relationship and you don't think this has the potential to be that, then you should break things off.
posted by valkyryn at 11:00 AM on August 27, 2010
Leaving ideology aside, it seems that you need to figure out what you want and whether having a "fling" with this guy is compatible with that. If what you're really looking for is a long-term relationship and you don't think this has the potential to be that, then you should break things off.
posted by valkyryn at 11:00 AM on August 27, 2010
I don't think it's a good idea to define a relationship before you're already in it. When you put someone in a certain box, you're limiting how you interact with that person, and it's totally possible that you'd be screwing yourself out of a potentially good thing (no pun intended) because you already decided what kind of relationship you're having with this person, without their input or without getting to know them. You're making a lot of assumptions about a guy you don't really know, but if that's the way you want to conduct your love life, don't be surprised when things don't work out the way you thought they would.
posted by Fuego at 11:05 AM on August 27, 2010
posted by Fuego at 11:05 AM on August 27, 2010
You're selling yourself short.
You don't know that he only wants a fling. Did he say this?
The age difference means nothing in this day and age. he might want to have a family. He might think older women are awesome. He might just think that YOU are awesome, all of you, older you.
Go on another date. Go on another. FIND OUT if he's really that young, if he has terrible taste in music, if his political ideology doesn't mesh with yours, if he's boring, if he snores, find out what he wants from YOU, find out what he wants in a relationship, if he wants kids and a family, or if - IF - he just wants a fling.
You might just be surprised.
posted by micawber at 11:06 AM on August 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
You don't know that he only wants a fling. Did he say this?
The age difference means nothing in this day and age. he might want to have a family. He might think older women are awesome. He might just think that YOU are awesome, all of you, older you.
Go on another date. Go on another. FIND OUT if he's really that young, if he has terrible taste in music, if his political ideology doesn't mesh with yours, if he's boring, if he snores, find out what he wants from YOU, find out what he wants in a relationship, if he wants kids and a family, or if - IF - he just wants a fling.
You might just be surprised.
posted by micawber at 11:06 AM on August 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
RJ Reynolds gave some great advice and I second it.
Also, this:
"I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels."
Yes, but be careful. You've already done a bit of overthinking and assuming here, and I agree with a prior comment that there's high freakout potential. You don't want to scare him off or worse, miss out on a potentially awesome, sexy time. Feel him out (literally and figuratively.) Let him know you haven't had many flings, but perhaps you'd like to try it. Let him know you haven't been with someone younger, but you're into the idea. (It probably wouldn't hurt to preface this with something along the lines of "I'm incredibly attracted to you and would love to jump your bones.") See how he responds. You'll know where he stands soon enough.
And, not every relationship needs to have long-term potential. Some relationships are fiery hot and burn out quickly, others have lasting potential. Give it a chance to develop naturally and see where it goes. You've only had one date.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 11:10 AM on August 27, 2010
Also, this:
"I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels."
Yes, but be careful. You've already done a bit of overthinking and assuming here, and I agree with a prior comment that there's high freakout potential. You don't want to scare him off or worse, miss out on a potentially awesome, sexy time. Feel him out (literally and figuratively.) Let him know you haven't had many flings, but perhaps you'd like to try it. Let him know you haven't been with someone younger, but you're into the idea. (It probably wouldn't hurt to preface this with something along the lines of "I'm incredibly attracted to you and would love to jump your bones.") See how he responds. You'll know where he stands soon enough.
And, not every relationship needs to have long-term potential. Some relationships are fiery hot and burn out quickly, others have lasting potential. Give it a chance to develop naturally and see where it goes. You've only had one date.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 11:10 AM on August 27, 2010
To rephrase your question:
"Hey, I had a great date. I should assume that this means any future relationship is doomed to fail based on my fears, right?"
You have your things that you feel are important, while he might have a completely different set of wants or needs. Why not just go out a few times and see if it goes anywhere, and if it does, ask what kind of relationship he's looking for?
Cart, horse, etc.
posted by mikeh at 11:13 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Hey, I had a great date. I should assume that this means any future relationship is doomed to fail based on my fears, right?"
You have your things that you feel are important, while he might have a completely different set of wants or needs. Why not just go out a few times and see if it goes anywhere, and if it does, ask what kind of relationship he's looking for?
Cart, horse, etc.
posted by mikeh at 11:13 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
My lovely girlfriend is 13 years younger than I and lives in another state. We'd been friends for a while prior to us becoming girlfriends. She'd invited me out to visit/go to an event a couple months after her last relationship ended. I assumed I was going out as a friend because she'd offered me her sofa. I was beanplating the hell outta what was going on when she finally stopped me and said "would you just kiss me?" Turns out she offered me the sofa because she didn't want me to think she was a hussy.
Much conversation followed and as it turns out we really do want much of the same in life and from a partner, etc.
Sometimes you just have to jump in.
posted by FlamingBore at 11:19 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Much conversation followed and as it turns out we really do want much of the same in life and from a partner, etc.
Sometimes you just have to jump in.
posted by FlamingBore at 11:19 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm 41 and I suspect that he could be 5 to 10 years younger than me. While I'd totally enjoy having what will no doubt be great sex with him, I don't know if I'm able to engage in a fling without having my feelings hurt when things inevitably end. Why do I think that? Wrongly or rightly, I assume he'll want to end up with someone he can marry and have children with, and my child-bearing years are waning.
One of the lessons that was drilled into my head as a child was that when you assume, you make and ASS out of U and ME...
You need to talk to him. You don't even know his age or what he's really looking for. He may be looking for monogamy and a long term relationship and be ok with potentially being childfree, or adopting, or whatever. Don't assume, ask and find out.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:22 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of the lessons that was drilled into my head as a child was that when you assume, you make and ASS out of U and ME...
You need to talk to him. You don't even know his age or what he's really looking for. He may be looking for monogamy and a long term relationship and be ok with potentially being childfree, or adopting, or whatever. Don't assume, ask and find out.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:22 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
You met him last week, and you've made out with him once. You should make out with him a few more times before getting into more serious discussions of where this is all going.
posted by lizbunny at 11:24 AM on August 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by lizbunny at 11:24 AM on August 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm your age, read your question and SOL'ed sighed out loud in regret of how sexist double standards about aging have undermined womens confidence and sexual worth, and in exhaustion at encountering yet another submissive and overly self-critical woman perpetuating this system.
posted by applemeat at 11:39 AM on August 27, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by applemeat at 11:39 AM on August 27, 2010 [6 favorites]
I think you're thinking too much too soon. Just move ahead and have good time for as long as it's a good time.
Remember that cliche': Don't regret the things you did but the things you didn't do?
posted by fivesavagepalms at 12:28 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Remember that cliche': Don't regret the things you did but the things you didn't do?
posted by fivesavagepalms at 12:28 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why are you focusing on forever. You lack data and barely know the guy. Your strong emotions are not a judge of the future.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:48 PM on August 27, 2010
posted by Ironmouth at 12:48 PM on August 27, 2010
I don't know if I'm able to engage in a fling without having my feelings hurt when things inevitably end. Why do I think that? Wrongly or rightly, I assume he'll want to end up with someone he can marry and have children with, and my child-bearing years are waning.
Embrace equality, let him think up his own reasons not to be with you?
posted by phearlez at 1:38 PM on August 27, 2010
Embrace equality, let him think up his own reasons not to be with you?
posted by phearlez at 1:38 PM on August 27, 2010
You're probably not interested in what I would tell my daughters, so I'll say this as objectively as possible.
(I'll also go with your assumption that it will end, for the purpose of answering your question, but I agree with the posters above that it's a premature assumption at best. )
If you are going to pursue this fling you have a neurochemical balancing act to manage. Think of it like going out for a fabulous, fun night of drinking with some really swell friends. You need to manage your intake of alcohol so that you're just intoxicated enough to have fun but not get embarrasingly sloppy and sick. The more you drink, the more alcohol you ingest, and the closer to "the line" you get.
So instead of a night of drinking it's a no-commitment fling with a fabulous guy. And instead of alcohol, it's oxytocin, pheylethylalanine, and other neurochemicals. You want to have the maximum fun with the minimum withdrawal when it's over.
But with ten years on this guy, you have maturity enough to set the pace. You decide whether you two smolder and fade or blaze and flame out. Be aware of your limits. Be gentle with your neurons.
If you find yourself in oxytocin withdrawal after all, the cure is the same for every hungover person -- time, rest, and TLC, fluids, etc. Don't let the withdrawal invade your self-esteem. No, you are loveable and you will not die alone. Yes you can live without this guy.
Of course the only surefire way to avoid a hangover is... you know. Be careful out there.
posted by cross_impact at 1:45 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
(I'll also go with your assumption that it will end, for the purpose of answering your question, but I agree with the posters above that it's a premature assumption at best. )
If you are going to pursue this fling you have a neurochemical balancing act to manage. Think of it like going out for a fabulous, fun night of drinking with some really swell friends. You need to manage your intake of alcohol so that you're just intoxicated enough to have fun but not get embarrasingly sloppy and sick. The more you drink, the more alcohol you ingest, and the closer to "the line" you get.
So instead of a night of drinking it's a no-commitment fling with a fabulous guy. And instead of alcohol, it's oxytocin, pheylethylalanine, and other neurochemicals. You want to have the maximum fun with the minimum withdrawal when it's over.
But with ten years on this guy, you have maturity enough to set the pace. You decide whether you two smolder and fade or blaze and flame out. Be aware of your limits. Be gentle with your neurons.
If you find yourself in oxytocin withdrawal after all, the cure is the same for every hungover person -- time, rest, and TLC, fluids, etc. Don't let the withdrawal invade your self-esteem. No, you are loveable and you will not die alone. Yes you can live without this guy.
Of course the only surefire way to avoid a hangover is... you know. Be careful out there.
posted by cross_impact at 1:45 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
You should keep seeing this guy but make sure you see other guys on the side that have real relationship potential. That way you can avoid getting serious with the young guy unless he wants to get serious with you.
posted by anniecat at 1:49 PM on August 27, 2010
posted by anniecat at 1:49 PM on August 27, 2010
phenylethylamine, dang it
posted by cross_impact at 1:49 PM on August 27, 2010
posted by cross_impact at 1:49 PM on August 27, 2010
Honestly, if you gut is telling you that he's not looking for a relationship, or he's not looking to settle down, I wouldn't second guess yourself. Go have all the awesome sex but go ahead and see other guys with potential on the side. Just because you're sleeping with him doesn't mean that you have to be in a deep relationship with him.
posted by anniecat at 1:54 PM on August 27, 2010
posted by anniecat at 1:54 PM on August 27, 2010
The most important part of your question is unanswerable by any of us because only you know how your heart works. Can you have sex without becoming emotionally involved? If you can, and so long as you're honest with him about the situation, go for it. If you can't, don't do it.
Best of luck figuring that out :)
posted by 2oh1 at 2:47 PM on August 27, 2010
Best of luck figuring that out :)
posted by 2oh1 at 2:47 PM on August 27, 2010
I personally had this revelation the other day when I started thinking about how much misery I've caused myself trying to avoid rejection. I'm pretty sure the actual rejection probably would not have been as bad. I also think sometimes I just felt all of that rejection pain without actually even being rejected. I was just so afraid of it. Still am, to be honest, but I am more in touch with that fear and more able to see how giving in to it is sometimes smart, and sometimes limits me from getting what I want. This is kind of an answer with no answer but I figured I'd share my little epiphany in case it helps.
posted by pazazygeek at 3:20 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by pazazygeek at 3:20 PM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I dumped a chick in this situation, because I didn't want to waste her time. I was worried that she was looking to settle down / have kids, and I knew I wasn't, and I didn't want to string her along. (Turns out, she wasn't.)
So I'd make clear that you're looking for a fling and nothing more, if that is what you want, because it'll take the pressure off him.
posted by orthogonality at 4:47 PM on August 27, 2010
So I'd make clear that you're looking for a fling and nothing more, if that is what you want, because it'll take the pressure off him.
posted by orthogonality at 4:47 PM on August 27, 2010
This notion that it's just a fling is predicated purelly on your suspicions and your assumptions about what he might want. Don't do that. You' find out on the third, fourth or fifth date. Go from there.
No jumping to conclusions! I was 40 and he was 33 when we got together. Five year later we are married. I (was then but definitely) am pushing the end of my fertility line. He wasn't absolutely positive he wanted children but he was absolutely positive he wanted me.
(Even so, there are plenty of ways to create a family these days. Start, first, with a good partner. Someone "cute, funny, smart" and who stimulates you physically and intellectually sounds like a great beginning.)
See where it goes, sweetie.
posted by Jezebella at 8:39 PM on August 27, 2010
No jumping to conclusions! I was 40 and he was 33 when we got together. Five year later we are married. I (was then but definitely) am pushing the end of my fertility line. He wasn't absolutely positive he wanted children but he was absolutely positive he wanted me.
(Even so, there are plenty of ways to create a family these days. Start, first, with a good partner. Someone "cute, funny, smart" and who stimulates you physically and intellectually sounds like a great beginning.)
See where it goes, sweetie.
posted by Jezebella at 8:39 PM on August 27, 2010
I agree with the others that you should not assume what he does and does not want. Since you are looking for a partner to have a child with, however, I would steer clear of the fling if that is only what he wants. Yes, it would be loads of fun....until it isn't.
From your post, you probably aren't the type that can do the fling without strings. I don't know how many women can, but I know I could never do it without feelings developing for the guy. If you start a fling and then start having feeling for the guy, that is when it stops being fun and starts really painful instead.
This is a problem since you are looking to find someone with whom to share a life and have a child. If you spend your time with your fling, you are not meeting potential life mates. If you develop unrequited feelings for your fling, you will spend your time beanplating over that and not trying to find a life mate.
If you were younger, I would say go for it--have fun and deal with any potential aftermath. But you are right that your fertility window is shutting and you know what you truly want. Live your life with that intention and don't waste your time on a fling right now.
My hope is that you find out this guy wants more than a fling...that way you can have your yummy cake and eat it too!!
posted by murrey at 5:33 AM on August 28, 2010
From your post, you probably aren't the type that can do the fling without strings. I don't know how many women can, but I know I could never do it without feelings developing for the guy. If you start a fling and then start having feeling for the guy, that is when it stops being fun and starts really painful instead.
This is a problem since you are looking to find someone with whom to share a life and have a child. If you spend your time with your fling, you are not meeting potential life mates. If you develop unrequited feelings for your fling, you will spend your time beanplating over that and not trying to find a life mate.
If you were younger, I would say go for it--have fun and deal with any potential aftermath. But you are right that your fertility window is shutting and you know what you truly want. Live your life with that intention and don't waste your time on a fling right now.
My hope is that you find out this guy wants more than a fling...that way you can have your yummy cake and eat it too!!
posted by murrey at 5:33 AM on August 28, 2010
I'm six years older than my beloved husband, and if I had only thought of him as a fling because of our age difference, I would have missed out on the last 14 years of bliss.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:30 PM on August 28, 2010
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:30 PM on August 28, 2010
I do plan to have an honest and open discussion with him about all this, and see how he feels.
dont do this. clam up and enjoy yourself.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:57 PM on August 28, 2010
dont do this. clam up and enjoy yourself.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:57 PM on August 28, 2010
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posted by grizzled at 10:37 AM on August 27, 2010 [1 favorite]