Being supportive
August 26, 2010 3:19 PM Subscribe
How can I talk honestly with my sister and still be supportive?
I want to help and support my sister, but it's very difficult to talk with her. Due to the fact that she actively avoids and dislikes thinking about her own personal problems, she's got a list of trigger words and ideas that is as long as my arm. For example, talking about managing this month's budget inevitably derails into her stressing out about how little she makes.
Anything that even remotely implies that her situation (which is not that bad but she's unhappy about it) is her own responsibility or fault somehow makes her very upset. And practically anything that goes wrong in her life she can insist is her fault somehow, so it's hard to avoid.
Similarly, the concept of taking care of yourself or putting yourself first is somehow being "selfish", another loaded word my parents used to use to make us feel guilty about not "sacrificing ourselves enough for the sake of the family." And her boyfriend continues to be a no-man's land, and I just change the topic when he comes up. (but he did move out, thankfully)
Frequently she brings these kind of topics up or segues into them from related conversations, and then doesn't want to talk about them. I feel like I have to walk through a minefield just to say how I feel about it, and to carefully respond to things with regards to her triggers and give my own opinion even as I try hard to be non-judgmental or lecturing. Often it feels like she just wants me to say what she wants to hear instead of coming to her own conclusions.
Additionally- is it a good idea to encourage her to think about her own problems instead of other people's or is that something she has to do on her own? And is there anything else I could be doing to help? Therapy seems to be out of the question, but I'm open to suggestions.
I want to help and support my sister, but it's very difficult to talk with her. Due to the fact that she actively avoids and dislikes thinking about her own personal problems, she's got a list of trigger words and ideas that is as long as my arm. For example, talking about managing this month's budget inevitably derails into her stressing out about how little she makes.
Anything that even remotely implies that her situation (which is not that bad but she's unhappy about it) is her own responsibility or fault somehow makes her very upset. And practically anything that goes wrong in her life she can insist is her fault somehow, so it's hard to avoid.
Similarly, the concept of taking care of yourself or putting yourself first is somehow being "selfish", another loaded word my parents used to use to make us feel guilty about not "sacrificing ourselves enough for the sake of the family." And her boyfriend continues to be a no-man's land, and I just change the topic when he comes up. (but he did move out, thankfully)
Frequently she brings these kind of topics up or segues into them from related conversations, and then doesn't want to talk about them. I feel like I have to walk through a minefield just to say how I feel about it, and to carefully respond to things with regards to her triggers and give my own opinion even as I try hard to be non-judgmental or lecturing. Often it feels like she just wants me to say what she wants to hear instead of coming to her own conclusions.
Additionally- is it a good idea to encourage her to think about her own problems instead of other people's or is that something she has to do on her own? And is there anything else I could be doing to help? Therapy seems to be out of the question, but I'm open to suggestions.
> Often it feels like she just wants me to say what she wants to hear instead of coming to her own conclusions.
It can very well be she does want that.
> is it a good idea to encourage her to think about her own problems instead of other people's or is that something she has to do on her own?
That's something she has to do on her own.
> And is there anything else I could be doing to help?
Things being the way you put them here, probably not. Then you choose if you want to give your honest opinion when asked, knowing she's going to give you some sort of shit about it (which you seem rather uncomfortable about), or rather if you wanna just tell her what she wants to hear so she can get off your back. The way you phrase this question seems to indicate there's no other way.
> Therapy seems to be out of the question
I didn't get it... For you or for her? I can't see how you could (or should) suggest therapy to your sister about something that, to me, sounds rather trivial, quite frankly. But then, I wouldn't have a problem with telling my sister what I think and then have her whine about it. For some reason, that really upsets you. That's what you should be looking into, because that's the only portion of this equation you can actually do something about.
posted by neblina_matinal at 3:57 PM on August 26, 2010
It can very well be she does want that.
> is it a good idea to encourage her to think about her own problems instead of other people's or is that something she has to do on her own?
That's something she has to do on her own.
> And is there anything else I could be doing to help?
Things being the way you put them here, probably not. Then you choose if you want to give your honest opinion when asked, knowing she's going to give you some sort of shit about it (which you seem rather uncomfortable about), or rather if you wanna just tell her what she wants to hear so she can get off your back. The way you phrase this question seems to indicate there's no other way.
> Therapy seems to be out of the question
I didn't get it... For you or for her? I can't see how you could (or should) suggest therapy to your sister about something that, to me, sounds rather trivial, quite frankly. But then, I wouldn't have a problem with telling my sister what I think and then have her whine about it. For some reason, that really upsets you. That's what you should be looking into, because that's the only portion of this equation you can actually do something about.
posted by neblina_matinal at 3:57 PM on August 26, 2010
Question: "What is the Definition for Empathy?"
Rosenberg: "Empathy, I would say is presence. Pure presence to what is alive in a person at this moment, bringing nothing in from the past. The more you know a person, the harder empathy is. The more you have studied psychology, the harder empathy really is. Because you can bring no thinking in from the past. If you surf, you'd be better at empathy because you will have built into your body what it is about. Being present and getting in with the energy that is coming through you in the present. It is not a mental understanding."
Question: "Is it speaking from the heart?"
Rosenberg: "What? Empathy? In empathy, you don't speak at all. You speak with the eyes. You speak with the body. If you say any words at all, it's because you are not sure you are with the person. So you may say some words. But the words are not empathy. Empathy is when the other person feels the connection to with what's alive in you."
posted by andreinla at 4:07 PM on August 26, 2010 [12 favorites]
Rosenberg: "Empathy, I would say is presence. Pure presence to what is alive in a person at this moment, bringing nothing in from the past. The more you know a person, the harder empathy is. The more you have studied psychology, the harder empathy really is. Because you can bring no thinking in from the past. If you surf, you'd be better at empathy because you will have built into your body what it is about. Being present and getting in with the energy that is coming through you in the present. It is not a mental understanding."
Question: "Is it speaking from the heart?"
Rosenberg: "What? Empathy? In empathy, you don't speak at all. You speak with the eyes. You speak with the body. If you say any words at all, it's because you are not sure you are with the person. So you may say some words. But the words are not empathy. Empathy is when the other person feels the connection to with what's alive in you."
posted by andreinla at 4:07 PM on August 26, 2010 [12 favorites]
So your sister is obsessed with the idea that other people are falsely accusing her of something? That sounds like she has a lot of unconscious, repressed guilt. This is like Lady Macbeth, who covered up a murder and then sees blood stains everywhere that she can't get rid of no matter how hard she tries. But, the traumatic truth that she wants to avoid is not the fact of her mistakes. What she wants most of all is for someone to punish her for her mistakes, so that she can be absolved. She cannot forgive herself because that would entail taking on the unbearable burden or responsibility of making a moral judgment all on her own, so she needs someone else to do it for her. She is unconsciously playing the role of immature child to force you into the position of the parent, to judge her and holding her responsible so that she doesn't have to do it. You can subvert this game by refusing to play the role of the master, and turn the tables by demanding that she tell you right from wrong.
posted by AlsoMike at 4:25 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by AlsoMike at 4:25 PM on August 26, 2010
As a little sister (I'm guessing your sister is younger), I can say that I appreciate my brother much more when we're just hanging out doing stuff, as opposed to having him tell me whatever ways he doesn't approve of the way I live my life. It sounds like you feel like you need to have some control over her, whereas all she wants to do is vent to you about stuff and have you listen. If you can't respond without criticizing or offering suggestions she's not open to, just listen and say, "Yeah. Sorry." or something.
I just read the question you posted earlier this month, about you and your sister sharing a small studio apartment. Yikes, dude. Another thing I can say as a little sister: I enjoy being around my brother a heck of a lot more now that we no longer live together.
posted by wondermouse at 4:30 PM on August 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
I just read the question you posted earlier this month, about you and your sister sharing a small studio apartment. Yikes, dude. Another thing I can say as a little sister: I enjoy being around my brother a heck of a lot more now that we no longer live together.
posted by wondermouse at 4:30 PM on August 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Your post doesn't really tell us whether your sister is open to advice or not.
If the conversation is about her problems, then if she's not asking for help, then the best solution is to listen, make all the right noises, but don't offer advice (tough to do at the best of times, even tougher as you clearly care about her and want her to be happy). Let her talk herself out. At most, say things like "what do you think would make this situation better?" or "would you like my advice?" or "can I help to make this better?" before making any suggestions. Sometimes people just need to vent, and as her sister and flatmate, you're going to get this more than anyone else! (And sometimes it's okay to say "I've had a really bad day at work, I need some time alone, I'm just going to go for a walk. Can we talk about this later?")
If it's things that you need to talk about, such as the household budget, then the approach needs to be different. Listen to her with respect and empathy when she goes off on tangents, but when she's finished, bring her back to the original question - "I understand that you're worried about the fact that you don't earn that much at the moment, but we still need to figure out how we're going to pay the bills this month". And repeat.
Continue building your own support networks, so you have someone to vent at when you've had a particularly difficult conversation with your sister!
posted by finding.perdita at 5:03 PM on August 26, 2010
If the conversation is about her problems, then if she's not asking for help, then the best solution is to listen, make all the right noises, but don't offer advice (tough to do at the best of times, even tougher as you clearly care about her and want her to be happy). Let her talk herself out. At most, say things like "what do you think would make this situation better?" or "would you like my advice?" or "can I help to make this better?" before making any suggestions. Sometimes people just need to vent, and as her sister and flatmate, you're going to get this more than anyone else! (And sometimes it's okay to say "I've had a really bad day at work, I need some time alone, I'm just going to go for a walk. Can we talk about this later?")
If it's things that you need to talk about, such as the household budget, then the approach needs to be different. Listen to her with respect and empathy when she goes off on tangents, but when she's finished, bring her back to the original question - "I understand that you're worried about the fact that you don't earn that much at the moment, but we still need to figure out how we're going to pay the bills this month". And repeat.
Continue building your own support networks, so you have someone to vent at when you've had a particularly difficult conversation with your sister!
posted by finding.perdita at 5:03 PM on August 26, 2010
Best answer: I have an in-law who is similarly prickly to talk with and my strategy is to just listen. Sometimes people just want to unload -- you don't have to offer suggestions or advice (no matter how well-meaning) about every topic of conversation. Let her talk, hold her hand, give her a hug, tell her you love her and believe in her -- that's about all you can do.
From what I recall of your previous question, you both are pretty young and are still learning how to live on your own; your relationship seems, from my perspective, to be a bit too co-dependent. Even if counseling is out of the question for her, why is it for you? It could make a world of difference in helping you navigate this confusing period of your life.
Best of luck to you.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 5:19 PM on August 26, 2010
From what I recall of your previous question, you both are pretty young and are still learning how to live on your own; your relationship seems, from my perspective, to be a bit too co-dependent. Even if counseling is out of the question for her, why is it for you? It could make a world of difference in helping you navigate this confusing period of your life.
Best of luck to you.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 5:19 PM on August 26, 2010
Best answer: Here's one of those things that I've learned way too late in life, so I'll pass it along to you in hopes it will do some good: when a guy complains about something in his life, he probably wants a solution for it. When a woman complains about something in her life, she more likely just wants you to make supportive noises (usual caveats about overgeneralizing apply).
That said, if someone steers a conversation onto a topic where what they want to hear is X and what I want to tell them is the exact opposite of X, I beg off. I say "look, I can't talk to you about that. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you X, and I know you don't want to hear opposite of X, so let's just leave it alone."
Now, all that said, if you are rooming with your sister, you need to talk about monthly budgets and whatnot. If she starts going off on a tangent when you bring up a topic of immediate concern, you need to steer her back and tell her "look, I know money is a problem for you, but this budget isn't going to take care of itself." She's an adult, and you can give her some tough love.
posted by adamrice at 5:23 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
That said, if someone steers a conversation onto a topic where what they want to hear is X and what I want to tell them is the exact opposite of X, I beg off. I say "look, I can't talk to you about that. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you X, and I know you don't want to hear opposite of X, so let's just leave it alone."
Now, all that said, if you are rooming with your sister, you need to talk about monthly budgets and whatnot. If she starts going off on a tangent when you bring up a topic of immediate concern, you need to steer her back and tell her "look, I know money is a problem for you, but this budget isn't going to take care of itself." She's an adult, and you can give her some tough love.
posted by adamrice at 5:23 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think you can be honest with her, because she doesn't want to hear it and goes berserk. It sounds more like, if anything, she wants a "Poor Baby" reaction out of you, tea and sympathy and "Poor baby! It's not YOUR fault!"
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:40 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:40 PM on August 26, 2010
Best answer: Empathy is awesome when it's useful. If you've done it and she keeps coming back for more. Stop. Ignore her. As you say her situation isn't that bad, there's nothing to fix. As long as she gets any reaction out of you, she will. It's about attention first. Then getting you to say specific things.
It's not your fault and it's not your problem either. When you are always there, you teach that you will always be there. Eventually you won't be. Even if that happens because you get frustrated about being there. She'll have to learn, no one can teach her. Guidance through your own actions is may work. If you don't worry about it, what will she do?
posted by conciergehenry at 6:21 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not your fault and it's not your problem either. When you are always there, you teach that you will always be there. Eventually you won't be. Even if that happens because you get frustrated about being there. She'll have to learn, no one can teach her. Guidance through your own actions is may work. If you don't worry about it, what will she do?
posted by conciergehenry at 6:21 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh man, your poor sister. She's a perfectionist who believes she should be selfless and who is very hard on herself about it, and meanwhile really defensive and reassurance-seeking towards you. No wonder you are posting this question; you are probably exhausted.
One tactic you might try is to limit the terms of any conversation that might provoke defensiveness and buffer it with positive statements. "I wanted to bring up something about our budget. This is just about how we are deciding what to use our money for. I'm not saying you are spending too much or anything. You are actually great at being frugal. I'm just asking, can we figure out a system for how we communicate before making a purchase?" She derails; you say "oh no, you did a great job with finding a job so quickly; I'm not saying that you're not earning enough. No matter how much you earned, we'd still have to figure out how to communicate our expenditures to each other, which is what I wanted to talk about." Even phrases like "this does not make you a bad person" can be useful in getting through to someone going "oh god I suck." As in, "I'm not saying you're a bad person for saying XYZ to the landlord. You're perfectly entitled to say what you want. All I'm saying is that because of the way my brain works, I'm now worried he's going to think ABC about us. So if you wouldn't mind being less open with him, it would make ME feel a lot better."
Another tactic: reflecting back all her worries. "Oh you are worrying about money again, huh? It seems like this often comes up for you." You can modify that strategy and add information about yourself too. You could tell her, "it's hard for me to listen because I care about you and wish you would be less hard on yourself" or "because I really want to help but know I cannot." Or "Could you try to set that aside for a minute? I really want to talk about X and you keep turning the conversation over to Y." Or "I really don't know what to say when this conversation topic comes up. I wish I could help, but I feel like whatever I say is probably the wrong thing." The idea is to raise her awareness of her worries and avoid taking onto yourself the responsibility of talking in a way that avoids them.
posted by salvia at 7:26 PM on August 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
One tactic you might try is to limit the terms of any conversation that might provoke defensiveness and buffer it with positive statements. "I wanted to bring up something about our budget. This is just about how we are deciding what to use our money for. I'm not saying you are spending too much or anything. You are actually great at being frugal. I'm just asking, can we figure out a system for how we communicate before making a purchase?" She derails; you say "oh no, you did a great job with finding a job so quickly; I'm not saying that you're not earning enough. No matter how much you earned, we'd still have to figure out how to communicate our expenditures to each other, which is what I wanted to talk about." Even phrases like "this does not make you a bad person" can be useful in getting through to someone going "oh god I suck." As in, "I'm not saying you're a bad person for saying XYZ to the landlord. You're perfectly entitled to say what you want. All I'm saying is that because of the way my brain works, I'm now worried he's going to think ABC about us. So if you wouldn't mind being less open with him, it would make ME feel a lot better."
Another tactic: reflecting back all her worries. "Oh you are worrying about money again, huh? It seems like this often comes up for you." You can modify that strategy and add information about yourself too. You could tell her, "it's hard for me to listen because I care about you and wish you would be less hard on yourself" or "because I really want to help but know I cannot." Or "Could you try to set that aside for a minute? I really want to talk about X and you keep turning the conversation over to Y." Or "I really don't know what to say when this conversation topic comes up. I wish I could help, but I feel like whatever I say is probably the wrong thing." The idea is to raise her awareness of her worries and avoid taking onto yourself the responsibility of talking in a way that avoids them.
posted by salvia at 7:26 PM on August 26, 2010 [5 favorites]
That's excellent advice, salvia.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 8:49 PM on August 26, 2010
posted by LuckySeven~ at 8:49 PM on August 26, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm not sure I completely understand all of it but I'll consider it carefully and see if I can figure it out.
And _thank you_ so much salvia, I wish I could favorite that a hundred times. You're right, it's exhausting, she's a perfectionist who's very hard on herself, and it doesn't help that our parents agree with her that she's somehow screwed up her life permanently by taking so long to graduate from college. Thank you.
posted by tachikoma_robot at 12:43 AM on August 27, 2010
And _thank you_ so much salvia, I wish I could favorite that a hundred times. You're right, it's exhausting, she's a perfectionist who's very hard on herself, and it doesn't help that our parents agree with her that she's somehow screwed up her life permanently by taking so long to graduate from college. Thank you.
posted by tachikoma_robot at 12:43 AM on August 27, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
From your description I am sensing that *you* want to see her change her situation, to see her have a better life. Your opinions unfortunately *are* judgments so speaking them is being judgmental.
Seems that all she wants is being heard. So hear her out and acknowledge what you sense she's feeling. Your judgmental thought process prevents you from supportive her... choosing to believe them makes you see support as changing her.
What you *can* do is use the format of nonviolent communication and communicate your feelings, while taking full responsibility for them.
Sounds like: I feel __X__ because I need _Y__ .
Example: I feel sad because I need to feel useful and supportive for you. I see what's going on in your life and I have a lot of judging thoughts for you, my own sister. I long to feel connected to you and I have a hard time with my own thoughts demanding me to change your life and somehow save you.
OR
I am feeling frustrated because I hear your pain and I keep thinking I have to somehow improve your life situation and every time I try, I feel you don't like it. I feel a deep need to contribute to your life and happiness.
Something along these lines, with whatever's truly present to you, would be honest.
Good luck!
posted by andreinla at 3:52 PM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]