Is/was there a term in Dungeons & Dragons besides "rolling a natural 20" for a hit that kills an opponent?
August 25, 2010 9:06 PM Subscribe
Is/was there a term in Dungeons & Dragons besides "rolling a natural 20" for a hit that kills an opponent?
I seem to remember there being one, but I do not have easy access to a Player's Handbook/DM guide, and can't seem to find any reference to it online. Yes, there's a "critical hit", but that doesn't (necessarily) automagically kill something.
I seem to remember there being one, but I do not have easy access to a Player's Handbook/DM guide, and can't seem to find any reference to it online. Yes, there's a "critical hit", but that doesn't (necessarily) automagically kill something.
There is an action in D&D (3rd edition) that is called "coup de grace":
As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.posted by demiurge at 9:13 PM on August 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.
What demiurge said.
Of course, your group can have whatever house rule everyone agrees on.
posted by Heretical at 9:15 PM on August 25, 2010
Of course, your group can have whatever house rule everyone agrees on.
posted by Heretical at 9:15 PM on August 25, 2010
"critical hit" isn't quite the same as a one-hit kill, but some variants use the term. Also, the (in)famous "vorpal sword" which decapitates an opponent on a natural 20.
posted by GuyZero at 9:18 PM on August 25, 2010
posted by GuyZero at 9:18 PM on August 25, 2010
Yeah the classical "natural 20" was just to get an automatic crit. I don't remember a coup de grace or equivalent in 2nd edition which is what I mostly played.
posted by wildcrdj at 9:18 PM on August 25, 2010
posted by wildcrdj at 9:18 PM on August 25, 2010
"To-Hit Numbers
Sometimes the attacker's to-hit number seems impossible to roll. An attack might be so
difficult it requires a roll greater than 20 (on a 20-sided die), or so ridiculously easy it can be made on a roll less than 1. In both cases, an attack roll is still required.
The reason is simple: With positive die roll modifiers (for magic, Strength, situation, or
whatever), a number greater than 20 can be rolled. Likewise, die roll penalties can push
the attack roll below 0.
No matter what number a character needs to hit, a roll of 20 is always considered a hit
and a roll of 1 is always a miss--unless the DM rules otherwise. Under most
circumstances, a natural 20 hits and a natural 1 misses, regardless of any modifiers
applied to the die roll."
-DM guide 2nd edition
basically the same for 1st edition and found nothing as yet for basic edition.
perhaps BlackRazor or something along that lines....mom called, gotta get the station wagon home before 11:00 (comment attributed by mathowie)
posted by clavdivs at 9:24 PM on August 25, 2010
Sometimes the attacker's to-hit number seems impossible to roll. An attack might be so
difficult it requires a roll greater than 20 (on a 20-sided die), or so ridiculously easy it can be made on a roll less than 1. In both cases, an attack roll is still required.
The reason is simple: With positive die roll modifiers (for magic, Strength, situation, or
whatever), a number greater than 20 can be rolled. Likewise, die roll penalties can push
the attack roll below 0.
No matter what number a character needs to hit, a roll of 20 is always considered a hit
and a roll of 1 is always a miss--unless the DM rules otherwise. Under most
circumstances, a natural 20 hits and a natural 1 misses, regardless of any modifiers
applied to the die roll."
-DM guide 2nd edition
basically the same for 1st edition and found nothing as yet for basic edition.
perhaps BlackRazor or something along that lines....mom called, gotta get the station wagon home before 11:00 (comment attributed by mathowie)
posted by clavdivs at 9:24 PM on August 25, 2010
In old-school AD&D, there was no concept of critical hits at all. A natural 20 always hit, no matter the modifiers affecting the roll. A natural 1 always missed, again regardless of modifiers. You could have a +21 sword and still have a 5% chance of missing.
But yeah, the vorpal sword killed on a 20. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of -- "vorpal."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:27 PM on August 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
But yeah, the vorpal sword killed on a 20. Perhaps that's what you're thinking of -- "vorpal."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:27 PM on August 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
I recall an optional rule in 3.5 in one of those later splat books that if you rolled a 20, you could roll again to confirm the critical, and if you rolled 20 on that, you could roll again, and if you rolled 20, two more times in a row (aka rolling 4 20's in a row), it was an auto-kill.
This was naturally one of those rules made to placate people who absolutely couldn't play a game where it wasn't possible to kill something in one hit, yet also wanted to keep the "hitpoint buffer" rules intact.
posted by yeloson at 9:46 PM on August 25, 2010
This was naturally one of those rules made to placate people who absolutely couldn't play a game where it wasn't possible to kill something in one hit, yet also wanted to keep the "hitpoint buffer" rules intact.
posted by yeloson at 9:46 PM on August 25, 2010
There's "massive damage", if you can deal 50 dmg to something in one hit, there's a solid chance they'll die from it.
posted by KirTakat at 10:03 PM on August 25, 2010
posted by KirTakat at 10:03 PM on August 25, 2010
A quick glance at the progression of numbers on the COMBAT TABLES will
reveal that 20 is repeated. This reflects the fact that a 20 indicates a
"perfect" hit. It also incidentally helps to assure that opponents with high
armor class value are not "hit proof" in most cases. Should any DM find
that this system offends his or her sensibilities, the following modification
is suggested: Consider the repeated 20 as a perfectly-aimed attack which
does not gain any benefit from strength or magical properties of any sort
- spell, missile, or weapon. That is, the 20 must be attained by a roll of
natural 20. All bonuses accrue only up to and including a total of 20, so
that even if a character attacked with a bonus for strength of +3 and a +3
magic sword he or she would have to roll a natural 20 in order to score a
hit on any creature normally hit by the second or successive repetitions of
20, i.e. the bonus (+3 in the example) could not exceed a total score of 20
unless an actual 20 is rolled. Thus, the COMBAT TABLES could be amended
to read like this:
21 (natural 20 plus at least + 1 bonus)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (die result + bonuses to total)
19 (die result + bonuses to total)
This then gives the advantage of allowing creatures to hit and be hit, yet it
denies any undue advantages, as the second and all successive 20s, as
well as all "to hit" scores above 20 require a natural die roll of 20
from 1st editon dm's guide
posted by clavdivs at 11:42 PM on August 25, 2010
reveal that 20 is repeated. This reflects the fact that a 20 indicates a
"perfect" hit. It also incidentally helps to assure that opponents with high
armor class value are not "hit proof" in most cases. Should any DM find
that this system offends his or her sensibilities, the following modification
is suggested: Consider the repeated 20 as a perfectly-aimed attack which
does not gain any benefit from strength or magical properties of any sort
- spell, missile, or weapon. That is, the 20 must be attained by a roll of
natural 20. All bonuses accrue only up to and including a total of 20, so
that even if a character attacked with a bonus for strength of +3 and a +3
magic sword he or she would have to roll a natural 20 in order to score a
hit on any creature normally hit by the second or successive repetitions of
20, i.e. the bonus (+3 in the example) could not exceed a total score of 20
unless an actual 20 is rolled. Thus, the COMBAT TABLES could be amended
to read like this:
21 (natural 20 plus at least + 1 bonus)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (natural)
20 (die result + bonuses to total)
19 (die result + bonuses to total)
This then gives the advantage of allowing creatures to hit and be hit, yet it
denies any undue advantages, as the second and all successive 20s, as
well as all "to hit" scores above 20 require a natural die roll of 20
from 1st editon dm's guide
posted by clavdivs at 11:42 PM on August 25, 2010
But yeah, the vorpal sword killed on a 20.
Only against monsters with a head, like humanoids. A natural 20 with a vorpal sword did diddly squat against a gelatinous cube or whatever.
posted by Justinian at 12:09 AM on August 26, 2010
Only against monsters with a head, like humanoids. A natural 20 with a vorpal sword did diddly squat against a gelatinous cube or whatever.
posted by Justinian at 12:09 AM on August 26, 2010
perhaps it was just house rules, but we played that a critical with a vorpal weapon removed appendages, not necessarily the head.
posted by jrishel at 8:25 AM on August 26, 2010
posted by jrishel at 8:25 AM on August 26, 2010
If I remember correctly, in one of the AD&D versions (I believe 2nd Edition?) there was a vorpal sword subchart, so there was a chance of taking off limbs or head depending on the subchart roll.
posted by haveanicesummer at 8:31 AM on August 26, 2010
posted by haveanicesummer at 8:31 AM on August 26, 2010
If I remember correctly, in one of the AD&D versions (I believe 2nd Edition?) there was a vorpal sword subchart, so there was a chance of taking off limbs or head depending on the subchart roll.
In original AD&D that was the "Sword of Sharpness" which took off things that were not heads.
posted by GuyZero at 9:16 AM on August 26, 2010
In original AD&D that was the "Sword of Sharpness" which took off things that were not heads.
posted by GuyZero at 9:16 AM on August 26, 2010
An incredibly common houserule says that three 20's in a row is an instant kill.
The most abusive methods to get an opponent to die are spells, as usual, because they require saves of an opponent. This only applies to the 1st through the 3.5th edition, and it got worse by 3.5. I'll tell you the specifics about 3.5. As a DM and a twink, I think these are boring and don't use them.
There are save-or-die spells, two-saves-or-die spells, and save-or-disable spells.
Save-or-die are self-explanatory, you roll a save(usually Fortitude) and succeed or you die.
Two-save-or-die, you roll two saves, if you fail each one you die. Usually illusion spells that scare you enough to kill you, so it's will and fortitude in that order.
Save-or-disable are nastiest because you can get them and get hit by them quite early. You succeed at a save or you get hit by some nasty condition that will probably become fatal quite soon. Stuns are actually quite nasty in this regard, and not fun at all in the table. A holdover from previous editions, I believe.
Massive damage is a rule which gets very much forgotten all the time, especially in high-level play. It needs to, because saves work by the same 1-is-fail and 20-is-success rule that attacks do: fighters would end up killing those 500-hp monsters not by reducing hp to -10 but by stacking on massive damage until the monster rolls a 1.
There are many feats which have to do with blows that kill things: you can have Death Blow, in Complete Adventurer, the vile Harvester of Souls in Elder Evils, along with Gruesome Finish, which I believe is in Exemplars of Evil(different books). There are some feats which let you make instant kill attacks in the Epic Level Handbook: this is notable because many ELH things are in the d20 SRD.
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicFeats.htm
I can't even count the number of class features which have the killing feature. Many times, the class will give you some kind of instadeath as a spell-like ability, once/day or once/week.
However, I believe Coup de Grace is your answer, unless you're looking for a more general term. Surprisingly, the actual phrase "killing blow" is not taken up by any feat or class feature that I know of.
posted by curuinor at 9:44 AM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
The most abusive methods to get an opponent to die are spells, as usual, because they require saves of an opponent. This only applies to the 1st through the 3.5th edition, and it got worse by 3.5. I'll tell you the specifics about 3.5. As a DM and a twink, I think these are boring and don't use them.
There are save-or-die spells, two-saves-or-die spells, and save-or-disable spells.
Save-or-die are self-explanatory, you roll a save(usually Fortitude) and succeed or you die.
Two-save-or-die, you roll two saves, if you fail each one you die. Usually illusion spells that scare you enough to kill you, so it's will and fortitude in that order.
Save-or-disable are nastiest because you can get them and get hit by them quite early. You succeed at a save or you get hit by some nasty condition that will probably become fatal quite soon. Stuns are actually quite nasty in this regard, and not fun at all in the table. A holdover from previous editions, I believe.
Massive damage is a rule which gets very much forgotten all the time, especially in high-level play. It needs to, because saves work by the same 1-is-fail and 20-is-success rule that attacks do: fighters would end up killing those 500-hp monsters not by reducing hp to -10 but by stacking on massive damage until the monster rolls a 1.
There are many feats which have to do with blows that kill things: you can have Death Blow, in Complete Adventurer, the vile Harvester of Souls in Elder Evils, along with Gruesome Finish, which I believe is in Exemplars of Evil(different books). There are some feats which let you make instant kill attacks in the Epic Level Handbook: this is notable because many ELH things are in the d20 SRD.
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicFeats.htm
I can't even count the number of class features which have the killing feature. Many times, the class will give you some kind of instadeath as a spell-like ability, once/day or once/week.
However, I believe Coup de Grace is your answer, unless you're looking for a more general term. Surprisingly, the actual phrase "killing blow" is not taken up by any feat or class feature that I know of.
posted by curuinor at 9:44 AM on August 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
An incredibly common houserule says that three 20's in a row is an instant kill.
Three natural 20s in a row?
The odds of doing that are 8000 to 1.
It had better be an instant kill, or I see a Dungeon Master getting a black eye. ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:03 PM on August 26, 2010
Three natural 20s in a row?
The odds of doing that are 8000 to 1.
It had better be an instant kill, or I see a Dungeon Master getting a black eye. ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:03 PM on August 26, 2010
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posted by drjimmy11 at 9:11 PM on August 25, 2010