2 WiFi networks in the same house?
August 23, 2010 4:37 PM Subscribe
Two separate wireless networks - possible, I think. But how?
Right now, I'm runnning my iMac off a wired connection (100 ft of Cat5e cable run through the basement from a LAN port of a NetGear router at the other end of my house).
With 1 floor and 6 walls between iMac in the bedroom and the NetGear, wireless was crappy, at best and non-existent, at worst.
So, I'm thinking I've got this old working Linksys WRT54G. How to put it to use? Mostly so I can get a wireless signal to my Series 2 Tivo and occasionally use my laptop wirelessly in the bedroom. It would also come in handy to have one of its wired LAN ports for my new Internet-ready Blu-Ray player.
I'm mostly interested in setting up a second wireless network, not extending or bridging the existing WiFi. And most of the stuff I've Googled talks about bridging or extending.
How to best proceed?
Right now, I'm runnning my iMac off a wired connection (100 ft of Cat5e cable run through the basement from a LAN port of a NetGear router at the other end of my house).
With 1 floor and 6 walls between iMac in the bedroom and the NetGear, wireless was crappy, at best and non-existent, at worst.
So, I'm thinking I've got this old working Linksys WRT54G. How to put it to use? Mostly so I can get a wireless signal to my Series 2 Tivo and occasionally use my laptop wirelessly in the bedroom. It would also come in handy to have one of its wired LAN ports for my new Internet-ready Blu-Ray player.
I'm mostly interested in setting up a second wireless network, not extending or bridging the existing WiFi. And most of the stuff I've Googled talks about bridging or extending.
How to best proceed?
So, here's the issue: you only want one network. Really. I promise.
A network, in the home LAN sense, consists of an internet connection fed through a router. The router creates an entirely new network inside your home. The router treats everything in the network 192.168.x.x (usually) as internal, and everything outside of that range as external ("The Internet", if you will).
If you throw another router onto that network as a client, and don't change its internal network address (and some subnet masks), you're going to have conflicts. After all, the first router will assign the second router a network address inside the range that the second router believes it's responsible for managing. Just writing that sentence was confusing.
Furthermore, the gateway machine (your main NetGear router in this case) usually provides services such as DHCP and sometimes DNS passthrough. The world gets pretty confusing if you have two competing DHCP and DNS servers running on the network.
So, what you want to do is set up your router as a pure access point. These are what a college or a big store buys, so that they can have one network, with centralized and authoritative services, but with lots of radios to cover a big area.
Figure out how to turn your router into an access point (often by twiddling a setting or by disabling all local services), and then just attach it to the wire. All the rest is taken care of.
posted by Netzapper at 4:55 PM on August 23, 2010
A network, in the home LAN sense, consists of an internet connection fed through a router. The router creates an entirely new network inside your home. The router treats everything in the network 192.168.x.x (usually) as internal, and everything outside of that range as external ("The Internet", if you will).
If you throw another router onto that network as a client, and don't change its internal network address (and some subnet masks), you're going to have conflicts. After all, the first router will assign the second router a network address inside the range that the second router believes it's responsible for managing. Just writing that sentence was confusing.
Furthermore, the gateway machine (your main NetGear router in this case) usually provides services such as DHCP and sometimes DNS passthrough. The world gets pretty confusing if you have two competing DHCP and DNS servers running on the network.
So, what you want to do is set up your router as a pure access point. These are what a college or a big store buys, so that they can have one network, with centralized and authoritative services, but with lots of radios to cover a big area.
Figure out how to turn your router into an access point (often by twiddling a setting or by disabling all local services), and then just attach it to the wire. All the rest is taken care of.
posted by Netzapper at 4:55 PM on August 23, 2010
Oh, hell. Argyle has a totally legitimate use-case for having another network. I stand corrected.
posted by Netzapper at 4:56 PM on August 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Netzapper at 4:56 PM on August 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Turn off the routing on the second router and have it act just as an access point/bridge. It would do nothing but authenticate the computers onto its wireless, but DHCP and routing and all that would be handled by the other router.
posted by gjc at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2010
posted by gjc at 6:20 PM on August 23, 2010
If all you want is two separate wireless networks, you'll need each to have a unique and valid IP address on the WAN side (maybe your ISP provides 'em, maybe you have a wired router that you can plug both wireless routers into.) Once that's done, it's easy-peasy -- give each a unique SSID, set each one to a different channel (ideally as far apart from each other, and your neighbor's access points, as possible) and that's that.
However, they'll be well and truly separate, unable to communicate across the two networks without going out and back in, and based on your description it sounds like what you're looking to do. The reason you're not finding instructions online for how to do this is simple: you're not doing anything complicated. Once you have two separate, valid WAN IPs to use for the routers, you're just setting up a single wireless network, twice.
posted by davejay at 9:58 PM on August 23, 2010
However, they'll be well and truly separate, unable to communicate across the two networks without going out and back in, and based on your description it sounds like what you're looking to do. The reason you're not finding instructions online for how to do this is simple: you're not doing anything complicated. Once you have two separate, valid WAN IPs to use for the routers, you're just setting up a single wireless network, twice.
posted by davejay at 9:58 PM on August 23, 2010
can't you just change the wireless channel on the other wireless router?
ie its like my neighbours have their own network that i can see but can't access.
posted by mary8nne at 6:24 AM on August 24, 2010
ie its like my neighbours have their own network that i can see but can't access.
posted by mary8nne at 6:24 AM on August 24, 2010
Just daisy chain your routers (double NAT) like Argyle posted, you don't need to turn off the routing/DHCP or need a second IP. Some services on your 2nd network might not work properly like VPN, but basic browsing should be fine.
posted by wongcorgi at 7:56 AM on August 24, 2010
posted by wongcorgi at 7:56 AM on August 24, 2010
Best answer: Unless you really have a good reason to set up a second network that is not connected in any way to your main network, it may not be worth the trouble with your current hardware. I wuld just throw Tomato or DDWRT or whatever on the WRT54G, plug it into the cable you ran from your current router to your iMac, and then set it to use a different wireless channel than your original router. Give the WRT54G a name that is different from the other router (I use "[networkname]0" and "[networkname]1") but use the same SSID on both. Jack the signal on the WRT54G - boost the transmit power, which the alternate firmware can do just fine - to increase your signal strength if needed.
Turn off DHCP on the WRT54G, let your other router handle it. Assign the WRT54G a fixed IP address using the admin interface on your other router. Tell the WRT54G to use this address, the same subnet mask as the DHCP LAN settings on the other router, and set the WRT54G to use the other router's internal IP address as the default gateway.
You should end up with one network, one DHCP server handling everything, but multiple access points for the network. Devices on the network should be handed off automatically between routers as you move around in the house. Pick up more routers and repeat as necessary to fill in dead spots in your coverage. My pair of WRT54G routers cost me a grand total of $1 - one from a junk bin at a yard sale, one free from a friend. If I had more I'd throw one in my garage.
In my house I have one WRT54G in the basement, with a Mac Mini and a networked printer connected via ethernet. A long cable runs to the living room upstairs, where I have the second WRT54G (DHCP turned off) that has the BluRay player and TiVo plugged in. Everything else in the house runs off of wireless, or is plugged in via cable for short periods of time. Moving around the house is easy, as the wireless devices will grab onto whichever of the two routers currently has the strongest signal. If I fire up iStumbler both routers appear, identified by name, with the same SSID.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:57 AM on August 24, 2010
Turn off DHCP on the WRT54G, let your other router handle it. Assign the WRT54G a fixed IP address using the admin interface on your other router. Tell the WRT54G to use this address, the same subnet mask as the DHCP LAN settings on the other router, and set the WRT54G to use the other router's internal IP address as the default gateway.
You should end up with one network, one DHCP server handling everything, but multiple access points for the network. Devices on the network should be handed off automatically between routers as you move around in the house. Pick up more routers and repeat as necessary to fill in dead spots in your coverage. My pair of WRT54G routers cost me a grand total of $1 - one from a junk bin at a yard sale, one free from a friend. If I had more I'd throw one in my garage.
In my house I have one WRT54G in the basement, with a Mac Mini and a networked printer connected via ethernet. A long cable runs to the living room upstairs, where I have the second WRT54G (DHCP turned off) that has the BluRay player and TiVo plugged in. Everything else in the house runs off of wireless, or is plugged in via cable for short periods of time. Moving around the house is easy, as the wireless devices will grab onto whichever of the two routers currently has the strongest signal. If I fire up iStumbler both routers appear, identified by name, with the same SSID.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:57 AM on August 24, 2010
Oh, forgot - both wireless routers will also need to use the same authentication method and same passphrase/passkey. So you can't do WPA on one and WEP on the other, etc. or the auto-handoff won't work.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:02 PM on August 24, 2010
posted by caution live frogs at 12:02 PM on August 24, 2010
Response by poster: Hey caution ...
If I do as you describe, will I still be able to use the empty LAN ports for wired connections (for instance, to the Net-ready Blu-Ray player I just bought)?
Thanks, all for your answers. Sounds less complicated than when I was trying to think it through in my head.
posted by jrchaplin at 3:47 PM on August 24, 2010
If I do as you describe, will I still be able to use the empty LAN ports for wired connections (for instance, to the Net-ready Blu-Ray player I just bought)?
Thanks, all for your answers. Sounds less complicated than when I was trying to think it through in my head.
posted by jrchaplin at 3:47 PM on August 24, 2010
Response by poster: By "the empty LAN ports", I mean the empty LAN ports on the WRT54G, of course ...
posted by jrchaplin at 3:48 PM on August 24, 2010
posted by jrchaplin at 3:48 PM on August 24, 2010
Best answer: Oh, yeah. No problem. The cable from router 1 to the WRT54G goes into the WAN port, leaving the 4 LAN ports on the WRT54G free for wired connections. I have devices plugged into the LAN ports on both of my routers (computer + networked printer on Router 1, BluRay and HD TiVo on Router 2); Router 1 handles the DHCP for both wired and wireless connections, and anything attached via WiFi or plugged directly into Router 1 or 2 can see everything else on the network.
For convenience sake you might wish to assign a fixed IP for anything plugged in via ethernet. I have fixed IP set up for the TiVo, BluRay, computer and printer; the iPhones and laptops are handled by DHCP. Using fixed addresses just makes it easier to troubleshoot network issues with the other hardware.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:02 AM on August 26, 2010
For convenience sake you might wish to assign a fixed IP for anything plugged in via ethernet. I have fixed IP set up for the TiVo, BluRay, computer and printer; the iPhones and laptops are handled by DHCP. Using fixed addresses just makes it easier to troubleshoot network issues with the other hardware.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:02 AM on August 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
I do that to make my primary router the 'Closed' wifi that is secure and the secondary router is 'Open' with no security, so guests can use it without a password, but don't have access to my home network. I also used the 'Open' network for older wifi gear (net radio) that doesn't do my current wifi security protocol.
Have fun.
posted by Argyle at 4:46 PM on August 23, 2010 [3 favorites]