Neighbpr's utility lines over my yard
August 22, 2010 4:33 PM Subscribe
We recently moved into an old house. It's on a small (0.2 acre) lot that is nicely wooded.
What is not so nice is that our backyard is bisected by our neighbor's utility lines which run from a pole in the back of our lots. Both our house and out neighbor's house feed off of the same utility pole.
In the diagram below, my house is "H" and my neighbor's house is "N". Our property line runs front to back, exactly in between our two houses.
The "|" and "\ "are the utility lines. I hope that this conveys the great extent to which our neighbor's lines cut across our property.
.................front...................
..........................................
..........................................
.....NNNNNNN........HHHHHHH...
.....NNNNNNN........HHHHHHH...
.....NNNNNNN........HHHHHHH...
..................\..................|.....
.....................\...............|.....
........................\............|.....
...........................\.........|.....
..............................\......|.....
.................................\...|.....
....................................\|.....
...................back...........@...
Of course this is unsightly but more importantly (because our lot is wooded) I feel like it is my responsibility to keep our neighbor's lines clear of limbs across the full breadth of our back yard. Needless to say I don't think that I should be saddled with this added responsibility and I'm wondering what I can do?
Do I have any leverage w/ the electric company to simply request (demand?) that they move these lines? What are some key words (ie, relevant legal terms) that I should know to better search local ordinances.?
And I guess, most importantly, should moving the lines cost me (or my neighbor) anything?
I really feel that the utility is ultimately at fault, since running the utility lines like this simply saved them the expense of erecting another utility pole.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
In the diagram below, my house is "H" and my neighbor's house is "N". Our property line runs front to back, exactly in between our two houses.
The "|" and "\ "are the utility lines. I hope that this conveys the great extent to which our neighbor's lines cut across our property.
.................front...................
..........................................
..........................................
.....NNNNNNN........HHHHHHH...
.....NNNNNNN........HHHHHHH...
.....NNNNNNN........HHHHHHH...
..................\..................|.....
.....................\...............|.....
........................\............|.....
...........................\.........|.....
..............................\......|.....
.................................\...|.....
....................................\|.....
...................back...........@...
Of course this is unsightly but more importantly (because our lot is wooded) I feel like it is my responsibility to keep our neighbor's lines clear of limbs across the full breadth of our back yard. Needless to say I don't think that I should be saddled with this added responsibility and I'm wondering what I can do?
Do I have any leverage w/ the electric company to simply request (demand?) that they move these lines? What are some key words (ie, relevant legal terms) that I should know to better search local ordinances.?
And I guess, most importantly, should moving the lines cost me (or my neighbor) anything?
I really feel that the utility is ultimately at fault, since running the utility lines like this simply saved them the expense of erecting another utility pole.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Were I live the utility company is responsible for keeping limbs off the lines. You could request having the lines moved, but this would require way more work than the company probably wants to do, since the lines were like that when you bought the property. They will either be nice and possibly move the lines, or more likely say that's how it was when you bought it so you have to deal with it. But they should to all the trimming for you once a year. Details on the right of was for the lines in your property should have been provided when you made the purchase.
posted by token-ring at 4:41 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by token-ring at 4:41 PM on August 22, 2010
Have you discussed this with your neighbor? That is what I would do as a first step. My utility website states the following:
Your service drop
It is your responsibility to keep the service drop, the secondary wires that run from the pole to your house or small business facility, clear of trees. Although the voltage running through your service drop is significantly lower than that of the pole-to-pole wires, we recommend you hire a professional tree service to do this trimming.
Don't go over there insisting that your neighbor pony up some cash to get this done. Just bring it up and you can possibly come to some amicable agreement (like splitting the cost of a tree service to come out and maintain both your lines.)
posted by Roger Dodger at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2010
Your service drop
It is your responsibility to keep the service drop, the secondary wires that run from the pole to your house or small business facility, clear of trees. Although the voltage running through your service drop is significantly lower than that of the pole-to-pole wires, we recommend you hire a professional tree service to do this trimming.
Don't go over there insisting that your neighbor pony up some cash to get this done. Just bring it up and you can possibly come to some amicable agreement (like splitting the cost of a tree service to come out and maintain both your lines.)
posted by Roger Dodger at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2010
On my property in WV, lines of that scale have no requirement for being clear of tree limbs in the same manner as lines which feed multiple properties.
posted by Dick Paris at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by Dick Paris at 4:46 PM on August 22, 2010
NES Power (heh) has a tree trimming hotline for questions: 615-695-7400.
From here. Others are right that you should contact the local authority (at that number above) before getting all neighborly. It might wind up being better to BBQ together while the power company does the trimming for you.
posted by carsonb at 4:54 PM on August 22, 2010
From here. Others are right that you should contact the local authority (at that number above) before getting all neighborly. It might wind up being better to BBQ together while the power company does the trimming for you.
posted by carsonb at 4:54 PM on August 22, 2010
Check to see if your local utility will allow underground conversion. Are these just power lines, or is there phone and cable on the pole as well?
posted by sageleaf at 4:57 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by sageleaf at 4:57 PM on August 22, 2010
Is there an utility easement for the power line?
Did you know the lines were there when you bought it?
Did you have a problem buying it with the line there?
Check with the electric company about an easement they may have. You can check your property settlement and survey of the property to confirm the easement.
Walk softly when talking to the neighbor. Know your facts and be nice.
posted by JayRwv at 4:59 PM on August 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Did you know the lines were there when you bought it?
Did you have a problem buying it with the line there?
Check with the electric company about an easement they may have. You can check your property settlement and survey of the property to confirm the easement.
Walk softly when talking to the neighbor. Know your facts and be nice.
posted by JayRwv at 4:59 PM on August 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: "And I guess, most importantly, should moving the lines cost me (or my neighbor) anything? "
Around here it would cost your neighbour to move the line. If the pole to pole service lines don't terminate at the illustrated post it's only about $600 to get Hydro to come out and move the lines to a mid wire drop (assuming your neighbour doesn't have a post on their property). If the lines do terminate at the illustrated post then it'll be a lot more because they'd have to put a new post in. Converting to underground service would be ideal but it is a lot more money.
Around here you aren't required to keep trees back from the power lines running from the pole to the house but most people do because being without power is inconvenient and it's expensive to fix. So you do have some negotiating power.
If it was me I'd offer to split the cost of getting the line moved. You get rid of the easement and you don't have to cut those trees allowing them to grow naturally. If that doesn't fly I'd offer to split the cost of having someone come out and do both lines; trimming tree limbs around live power is one of those jobs I'd prefer to hire someone to do.
posted by Mitheral at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Around here it would cost your neighbour to move the line. If the pole to pole service lines don't terminate at the illustrated post it's only about $600 to get Hydro to come out and move the lines to a mid wire drop (assuming your neighbour doesn't have a post on their property). If the lines do terminate at the illustrated post then it'll be a lot more because they'd have to put a new post in. Converting to underground service would be ideal but it is a lot more money.
Around here you aren't required to keep trees back from the power lines running from the pole to the house but most people do because being without power is inconvenient and it's expensive to fix. So you do have some negotiating power.
If it was me I'd offer to split the cost of getting the line moved. You get rid of the easement and you don't have to cut those trees allowing them to grow naturally. If that doesn't fly I'd offer to split the cost of having someone come out and do both lines; trimming tree limbs around live power is one of those jobs I'd prefer to hire someone to do.
posted by Mitheral at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Good info and great thoughts.
Looks like the utility co is off the hook and I'm certainly not going to bother my neighbor about this.
Not sure what we're going to do if we decide to build off the back but that's down the road a bit.
Thanks all!
posted by DavidandConquer at 5:18 PM on August 22, 2010
Looks like the utility co is off the hook and I'm certainly not going to bother my neighbor about this.
Not sure what we're going to do if we decide to build off the back but that's down the road a bit.
Thanks all!
posted by DavidandConquer at 5:18 PM on August 22, 2010
The company would charge the neighbor to move the lines. A friend in Oregon who was building a home was told that the power company would charge $X for the pole and $Y for every zzzz feet of run. I cannot remember the total, but Mitheral's costs sound lower than his estimate. It is possible that the person who saved money was the neighbor rather than the electric company. These sorts of neighborly arrangements often have a long history, so I would start by having a conversation with the neighbor about what they know.
posted by slidell at 5:22 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by slidell at 5:22 PM on August 22, 2010
This is a question with an answer that could depend on your specific location. Here is how it works in mine: assuming that there is an easement for the line through your property, then the cost of moving the line so that it doesn't cross your property should be paid by you. Why would the neighbour pay for it, when he is presumably happy with the current situation? If you bought a property with an existing easement, you don't have a leg to stand on. However, I don't think that you would be responsible for tree trimming around your neighbour's line. It is likely that the easement allows your neighbour access to your property to trim around the line. This should not be difficult to confirm if you have the relevant documents available.
posted by ssg at 5:29 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ssg at 5:29 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: No, I have no idea about the existance of an easement.
How are easements communicated to buyers? We have no record of any such easement in our closing documents.
posted by DavidandConquer at 5:46 PM on August 22, 2010
How are easements communicated to buyers? We have no record of any such easement in our closing documents.
posted by DavidandConquer at 5:46 PM on August 22, 2010
in NYS, at least, easements are referenced in the Abstract of Title, which is a big sheaf-esque stack of papers that list the entire back history of a property. It's also referenced in any title insurance policy you may buy.
posted by Lucinda at 6:02 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by Lucinda at 6:02 PM on August 22, 2010
Best answer: The term you are looking for is aerial trespass.
Previously
I believe my brother told me that he had an aerial trespass on his property, and he called the utility, advised them, and they moved it at their expense. This was in Ontario.
posted by dripped at 6:09 PM on August 22, 2010
Previously
I believe my brother told me that he had an aerial trespass on his property, and he called the utility, advised them, and they moved it at their expense. This was in Ontario.
posted by dripped at 6:09 PM on August 22, 2010
>How are easements communicated to buyers?
The following is legal information, not legal advice.
Express easements are granted by a written document which would be on file with a local governmental agency. A title company could tell you very quickly, and for a modest cost, whether there is one on the record.
If the lines have been in place for more than a specified period of years, there may be an "easement by prescription". The laws, and the length of time required, vary from state to state, so local legal advice is needed.
posted by yclipse at 6:18 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
The following is legal information, not legal advice.
Express easements are granted by a written document which would be on file with a local governmental agency. A title company could tell you very quickly, and for a modest cost, whether there is one on the record.
If the lines have been in place for more than a specified period of years, there may be an "easement by prescription". The laws, and the length of time required, vary from state to state, so local legal advice is needed.
posted by yclipse at 6:18 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
IANAL, but in a similar situation I once got a utility company to agree to put the wires underground because they crossed our property without benefit of an easement; in exchange, we didn't sue them for aerial trespass. In contrast, I am willing to pay for my current wires to be buried and the utility company has refused.
posted by carmicha at 9:36 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by carmicha at 9:36 PM on August 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by carsonb at 4:38 PM on August 22, 2010 [9 favorites]