Anyone tried bacteriotherapy?
August 22, 2010 7:35 AM Subscribe
This article in the NYT about bacteriotherapy would seem like a wonderful option to consider for someone like me, lifetime IBS sufferer, even with the obvious gross-out factor.
Microbes Defend Us.
Does anyone have any experience this procedure, for good or ill?
Response by poster: I have done the probiotics, with some success, and also limited my diet to things that don't set me off, and I'm fine when I'm on antibiotics, but the thought of a permanent cure...wow.
posted by PJSibling at 8:31 AM on August 22, 2010
posted by PJSibling at 8:31 AM on August 22, 2010
Best answer: First of all, I second what idle said: This is a specific solution to a specific, very narrow problem. The bigger picture problem is that we don't understand the composition of the gut well enough to start trying to theraputically change the composition of your microflora. It's an enormously complex ecosystem, and we're just now dipping our toes into the water with initiatives like the Human Microbiome Project
The other big problem is that IBS/IBD/Crohns/UC are really a spectrum of diseases that probably have many different underlying causes. It's pretty clear, though that there are both genetic and environmental factors that contribute to the aetiology. I'm most familiar with Crohn's Disease, which is clearly caused by failure to downregulate inflammatory responses. This is likely to be a problem triggered by lots of different microbes, so it's unclear that any kind of bacterial replacement therapy would be effective.
So yeah, As someone who has Crohn's I'm enormously excited about the research being done on the microbiome, and I totally understand why you'd be pumped about a possible cure. As a researcher, I've gotta tell you though - cracking this nut is going to take a while.
posted by chrisamiller at 1:46 PM on August 22, 2010
The other big problem is that IBS/IBD/Crohns/UC are really a spectrum of diseases that probably have many different underlying causes. It's pretty clear, though that there are both genetic and environmental factors that contribute to the aetiology. I'm most familiar with Crohn's Disease, which is clearly caused by failure to downregulate inflammatory responses. This is likely to be a problem triggered by lots of different microbes, so it's unclear that any kind of bacterial replacement therapy would be effective.
So yeah, As someone who has Crohn's I'm enormously excited about the research being done on the microbiome, and I totally understand why you'd be pumped about a possible cure. As a researcher, I've gotta tell you though - cracking this nut is going to take a while.
posted by chrisamiller at 1:46 PM on August 22, 2010
Response by poster: As a researcher, I've gotta tell you though - cracking this nut is going to take a while."
Groan...
Maybe I'll talk to my doc about both the probiotics and this procedure. I've never been tested but maybe I do have the "right" bad bacteria.
Thanks for your answers, everyone. I guess the pool of people who have actually had the procedure is pretty small.
posted by PJSibling at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2010
Groan...
Maybe I'll talk to my doc about both the probiotics and this procedure. I've never been tested but maybe I do have the "right" bad bacteria.
Thanks for your answers, everyone. I guess the pool of people who have actually had the procedure is pretty small.
posted by PJSibling at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2010
Response by poster: Idle, which probiotics work for you?
posted by PJSibling at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by PJSibling at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2010
You might want to look into this study too. Apparently behavioral therapy is effective for some IBS sufferers.
posted by jdfan at 6:50 PM on August 22, 2010
posted by jdfan at 6:50 PM on August 22, 2010
I recommend kefir. I read that kefir establishes self-propagating colonies in your gut, while yogurt & other bacilli need to be replenished. Check the website of the "Father of Kefir". He cured IBS with "retained rectal insertions" of kefir grains.
posted by ohshenandoah at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2010
posted by ohshenandoah at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2010
Just popping back in to say that there's nothing wrong with trying out probiotics and such, but be wary. For every potential treatment, there are just as many snake-oil salesmen who would love to make a quick buck off of your pain. As far as we know right now, there is no way to cure IBS. Probiotics have shown promise in some studies, but have been shown to be useless in others.
What does this mean for you? It means that you should be selective with the kinds of things you try - look for those that have at least shown some efficacy in trials. (Pubmed and your doctors are your friends here)
Also be wary of your own biases. Humans are really good at convincing ourselves that things work when we want them to work. Give it a good month or so, track your symptoms, and make an evidence-based determination of whether the treatment has helped you. Best of luck!
posted by chrisamiller at 2:57 PM on August 24, 2010
What does this mean for you? It means that you should be selective with the kinds of things you try - look for those that have at least shown some efficacy in trials. (Pubmed and your doctors are your friends here)
Also be wary of your own biases. Humans are really good at convincing ourselves that things work when we want them to work. Give it a good month or so, track your symptoms, and make an evidence-based determination of whether the treatment has helped you. Best of luck!
posted by chrisamiller at 2:57 PM on August 24, 2010
Related posts from Jonathan Eisen on "overselling the microbiome"
posted by chrisamiller at 3:59 AM on August 25, 2010
posted by chrisamiller at 3:59 AM on August 25, 2010
Last post, I swear, but I stumbled across this new paper today while catching up on journals: Reshaping the gut microbiome with bacterial transplantation and antibiotic intake.
Basically, they show that by treating rats with antibiotics, then doing fecal transplant, they can create long-term alterations in the microbiota. Think of this as jumping over the first hoop of many in proving the feasibility of this method. The next steps will be to figure out which microbes you want in there and which you don't, and how you can create a stable environment for those beneficial species.
posted by chrisamiller at 3:41 PM on August 25, 2010
Basically, they show that by treating rats with antibiotics, then doing fecal transplant, they can create long-term alterations in the microbiota. Think of this as jumping over the first hoop of many in proving the feasibility of this method. The next steps will be to figure out which microbes you want in there and which you don't, and how you can create a stable environment for those beneficial species.
posted by chrisamiller at 3:41 PM on August 25, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Unfortunately I've never heard of anyone with IBS getting the procedure. IBS is kind of an unfortunate thing because it doesn't have a standardized cause like Clostridium difficile. IBS sufferers seem to have a wide range of triggers and gut flora balances. No one is sure what causes IBS, or even whether gut bacteria always plays a role.
Unless you can get diagnosed with something like Clostridium difficile, it's unlikely you'll be able to get into a study or get a doctor to do a fecal transplant. It's possible that people will go to other countries like Thailand to get this done, but it's not happening just yet.
Even recently it was impossible to get in the US even for people with serious infections and people were flying to Australia. Here are some stories from people who did that.
In the meantime, I would suggest looking into a good probiotic supplement. The best are refrigerated and while they are fairly expensive, they were worth it for me. I also have had success with a Specific Carbohydrate Diet and zinc.
posted by idle at 8:17 AM on August 22, 2010