Comments on: Where did stereotypical Asian music come from?

Question: Where did stereotypical Asian music come from?

jjg — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:08:38 -0800

The New Wave classic "Turning Japanese" by the Vapors opens with a short musical phrase signifying "stereotypical Asian music". You've heard it in many other places, usually (these days) for comedic effect. Did this phrase originate in any actual Asian composition? Or is it purely a Western invention?

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:54:23 -0800

I remember a thread here a'way back in the day with a similar question, but I can't seem to find it. If I remember correctly, the consensus was that it's a Western construction - it just "sounds like" Asian music.

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:21:46 -0800

It sounds a little bit like sukiyaki.

By: donth

donth — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:35:24 -0800

There was a recent discussion on the Straight Dope message board about this. Their tentative conclusion: it's a Western invention which sounds kind of like the pentatonic scale of Asian music. Similar riffs have been around since the early 20th century, but the exact one used in "Turning Japanese" was the one that has become the most famous, and its fame is probably due to that song.

By: Miko

Miko — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:10:14 -0800

When you play only the five notes in an asian pentatonic scale, almost anything you play will 'sound Asian'. Interestingly, American blues scales are also pentatonic.

By: Miko

Miko — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:13:32 -0800

When you play only the five notes in an asian pentatonic scale, almost anything you play will 'sound Asian'. Interestingly, American blues scales are also pentatonic.

On preview, that's what's being said on the Straight Dope.

By: Miko

Miko — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:13:48 -0800

doh

By: wanderingmind

wanderingmind — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:04:59 -0800

Tangentially, an easy way to play an Asian pentatonic scale is to just use the black keys on a piano keyboard. I've noodled around with plenty of quasi-Asian-sounding melodies that way.

By: jjg

jjg — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:11:20 -0800

This message from the Straight Dope board seems to be the key "we definitely have no idea" answer.

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:27:41 -0800

Previously asked on Ask Metafilter. No real answer in that one, either.

By: nobody

nobody — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:53:35 -0800

When you play only the five notes in an asian pentatonic scale, almost anything you play will 'sound Asian'. Interestingly, American blues scales are also pentatonic.

If this hadn't been written already, I would have said something similar. However, seeing it written down (by someone else), I now want to point out the obvious contradiction: If almost anything you play on a pentatonic scale 'sounds Asian,' then the blues (and guitar rock solos) would also 'sound Asian.' (I don't think there's a difference between an 'Asian pentatonic scale' and an American blues pentatonic scale. Both are, for instance, the black keys on a piano, no?)

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:42:43 -0800

The misconception here is that the blues scale is The Pentatonic scale, or even A Pentatonic scale. It's not, for a start, it has six notes, so it can't be a "pentatonic scale". The blues scale is has the pentatonic scale in it, but then, so does the major scale...

The riff at the beginning of turning Japanese is only three different notes, and those three notes are from a pentatonic scale (The Pentatonic Minor, to be exact), but it's their configuration - particularly the three semitone jump down, that imbues the melody with that oriental feel.

By: Goofyy

Goofyy — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:34:15 -0800

I thought the quintessential "Asian" sound was from Mikado. Perhaps my cart is before my horse.

By: Miko

Miko — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:46:49 -0800

The misconception here is that the blues scale is The Pentatonic scale, or even A Pentatonic scale. It's not, for a start, it has six notes, so it can't be a "pentatonic scale". The blues scale is has the pentatonic scale in it, but then, so does the major scale...

If that's right, I've been wrong a long time. Can you list an example in a particular key? Are you counting the root tone twice? Honestly, not being snarky, just recieved wrong instruction a long time ago if I'm wrong about this.

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:49:46 -0800

Major Pentatonic: 1 2 3 5 6
Minor Pentatonic: 1 b3 4 5 b7
Blues Scale: 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7

The Minor Pentatonic in Eb is the "Black Notes On A Piano" scale: Eb(1) Gb(b3) Ab(4) Bb(5) Db(b7). With the addition of a flattened fifth, the scale becomes the Eb Blues Scale: Eb(1) Gb(b3) Ab(4) Bbb(b5) Bb(5) Db(b7) (note, of course, that Bbb is really a A.

So, in C for example, the Blues Scale is: C Eb F Gb G Bb

It's the chromatic 4 b5 5 that gives the Blues Scale it's character, and enables you to play some of the most famous blues licks. Without the flattened fifth, the Minor Pentatonic tends to be difficult to resolve, and, as discussed above, due of the two 3 semitone intervals in the key, tends to sound oriental.

By: subgenius

subgenius — Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:15:11 -0800

By: Miko

Miko — Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:18:34 -0800

Got it, thanks, benzo8.

By: obloquy

obloquy — Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:07:44 -0800

I think that Carl Douglas' "Kung Fu Fighting" penetrated mass culture more than the Vapors song.

By: obloquy

obloquy — Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:16:19 -0800

c.f. top Billboard chart positions & dates:
"Kung Fu Fighting": #1, 1974
"Turning Japanese": #36, 1980