Slayer one press Ptart
August 10, 2010 8:43 AM Subscribe
I have been trying to get a job in the game industry, I'm close but I need to take the next step. Thing is, I'm not sure what that is.
In 6 months I will have an A.A.S degree in "game design" with a certificate in programming, in addition to a 2 year Associates in Computer Systems Management (everything from networking to programming) By now I've know about a half-dozen languages (mostly C variants) and can write games for a variety of platforms (Android, PC, Xbox). I do art as well, I did the art for my class's semester project from this question (which turned out fine) and I'm on another team doing a separate project outside of school. Additionally I've entered game-programming competitions (and I made a recent projects post about). Suffice it to say, I eat sleep and breathe this stuff.
I live in Kansas City, there are not very many developers here. A dearth of them, really. It's cheap to live but there's few opportunities. So the impetus is to move, but I have no industry contacts anywhere. I would have liked to have networked when I went to the 2010 Game Developers Conference in San Fransisco, but I was summarily ignored for not knowing anyone, and for being a student. Finding an internship was a veritable crap-shoot
I also don't think I'm up to snuff, skill-wise. Supposedly I'd learn everything I'd need to know about polishing a game up to professional standards by either going to school or getting an internship
So here are the options as I see them:
Should I move and try to find a job? Go back to school? Or stick around and work on my craft? Is there another way?
In 6 months I will have an A.A.S degree in "game design" with a certificate in programming, in addition to a 2 year Associates in Computer Systems Management (everything from networking to programming) By now I've know about a half-dozen languages (mostly C variants) and can write games for a variety of platforms (Android, PC, Xbox). I do art as well, I did the art for my class's semester project from this question (which turned out fine) and I'm on another team doing a separate project outside of school. Additionally I've entered game-programming competitions (and I made a recent projects post about). Suffice it to say, I eat sleep and breathe this stuff.
I live in Kansas City, there are not very many developers here. A dearth of them, really. It's cheap to live but there's few opportunities. So the impetus is to move, but I have no industry contacts anywhere. I would have liked to have networked when I went to the 2010 Game Developers Conference in San Fransisco, but I was summarily ignored for not knowing anyone, and for being a student. Finding an internship was a veritable crap-shoot
I also don't think I'm up to snuff, skill-wise. Supposedly I'd learn everything I'd need to know about polishing a game up to professional standards by either going to school or getting an internship
So here are the options as I see them:
- Stay In Kansas City and work on portfolio Currently I'm working with a team on building a game based on the Unreal UDK. However, there is little organization, experience, and leadership. It's the best I've been able to come up with as far as finding a local team. I've considered diving into the Mod scene, since that seems to be where a lot of guys get hired. Living in KC would let me build a skill set needed to get a job somewhere, but this would take time and success isn't guaranteed (when it is? LOL) Also: I've lived in the midwest all my life and would like a change of scenery eventually.
- Move and hope to find a job I have family near the Seattle area who have pledged to help me get on my feet should I move there. I'm confident I could land a QA position somewhere (or could I?) and then move into development from there. Thing is, QA is typically pretty rough, so I'd have to choose where I work carefully, and I don't know if I'll have that choice or I'll be forced to take what I can get.
- Move and get a 4 year degree I don't think that just my 2 year degree will get me anything (which is why I've been working so hard on side projects) but I think a 4 year degree can. "Game Design" degree programs are generally rinky-dink, especially in the midwest. Some of them are pretty good, but I'd have to move to go there. They're also expensive, and intensive, so I don't know if I could work and go to school. So basically burn money for a few years while going to school.
Should I move and try to find a job? Go back to school? Or stick around and work on my craft? Is there another way?
The key to getting a job in any industry is networking.
Creating a portfolio of your projects is a kind of networking.
Developing a social media presence is a kind of networking. What are the sites/blogs/facebook groups/etc that game designers use/frequent/participate in? Join those.
Join linkedin, Facebook, etc.
But, don't sit in front of your computer all day either.
Go out and meet people.
I don't know much about the industry, but if Seattle is where most of the jobs are, make a plan to spend a couple of days in Seattle. Call people up (do not email them, unless you can't find phone numbers) and say "I am interested in game design and would like to meet with you for ten minutes over coffee"). The majority of people will ignore you or tell you to buzz off, but at least some (if you contact a sufficient number of people) will be receptive.
Build on those contacts.
Contacts open doors.
posted by dfriedman at 9:20 AM on August 10, 2010
Creating a portfolio of your projects is a kind of networking.
Developing a social media presence is a kind of networking. What are the sites/blogs/facebook groups/etc that game designers use/frequent/participate in? Join those.
Join linkedin, Facebook, etc.
But, don't sit in front of your computer all day either.
Go out and meet people.
I don't know much about the industry, but if Seattle is where most of the jobs are, make a plan to spend a couple of days in Seattle. Call people up (do not email them, unless you can't find phone numbers) and say "I am interested in game design and would like to meet with you for ten minutes over coffee"). The majority of people will ignore you or tell you to buzz off, but at least some (if you contact a sufficient number of people) will be receptive.
Build on those contacts.
Contacts open doors.
posted by dfriedman at 9:20 AM on August 10, 2010
hellojed: "I would have liked to have networked when I went to the 2010 Game Developers Conference in San Fransisco"
It sounds like GDC is the place everyone who wants to break into the industry shows up. And there is a ton of such people. People willing to work in free internships, load up on tens of thousands in student debt, take jobs at wages that will take years to repay, and work mandatory 80 hour crunch time. People who are willing to organize QuakeCon for 8 years running as a slow serenade to the HR dept (and finally landed a job working for iD).
From a long term planning perspective, I'd recommend the 4 year degree. Your AAS should translate into fewer gen ed requirements and even knock down a few degree specific courses. Student loans are available to finance tuition and rent, if you want to avoid working. Additionally, work study is dramatically more available than at your Community College. Another bonus with research universities is undergraduate researcher positions. I know a Professor who hired someone to work on WorldForge (this grant probably ran out). So it's not all admin assistant, line cook and web designer.
The caliber and dedication of people you'll meet is completely different than a 2 year degree, and the courses will be substantially more in depth than what I've seen of your curriculum. I think you should ask your professors what they think about your question, because I'm curious if they agree with me.
Is there another way?
Yes. Write and sell games on the Android platform. Once you've established quality games with sales you can port them to console markets. Companies have done similar things with Flash and consoles. Popcap, and Behemoth, to name two I remember. The goal isn't to build a portfolio someone will look at and decide you're worth hiring, the goal is to build a revenue stream right now.
posted by pwnguin at 10:23 AM on August 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds like GDC is the place everyone who wants to break into the industry shows up. And there is a ton of such people. People willing to work in free internships, load up on tens of thousands in student debt, take jobs at wages that will take years to repay, and work mandatory 80 hour crunch time. People who are willing to organize QuakeCon for 8 years running as a slow serenade to the HR dept (and finally landed a job working for iD).
From a long term planning perspective, I'd recommend the 4 year degree. Your AAS should translate into fewer gen ed requirements and even knock down a few degree specific courses. Student loans are available to finance tuition and rent, if you want to avoid working. Additionally, work study is dramatically more available than at your Community College. Another bonus with research universities is undergraduate researcher positions. I know a Professor who hired someone to work on WorldForge (this grant probably ran out). So it's not all admin assistant, line cook and web designer.
The caliber and dedication of people you'll meet is completely different than a 2 year degree, and the courses will be substantially more in depth than what I've seen of your curriculum. I think you should ask your professors what they think about your question, because I'm curious if they agree with me.
Is there another way?
Yes. Write and sell games on the Android platform. Once you've established quality games with sales you can port them to console markets. Companies have done similar things with Flash and consoles. Popcap, and Behemoth, to name two I remember. The goal isn't to build a portfolio someone will look at and decide you're worth hiring, the goal is to build a revenue stream right now.
posted by pwnguin at 10:23 AM on August 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's the best I've been able to come up with as far as finding a local team. I've considered diving into the Mod scene, since that seems to be where a lot of guys get hired.
Have you considered writing smaller Android/iPhone/Flash games yourself? If you have the skills to code and do the art, that would be the best way to get a chance to design actual games that real people would play right now. I don't know if that would lead to the kind of industry jobs you are looking for but it would be a good way to gain some experience and make some extra money at the same time.
When I was looking for a job coming out of 4 year CS program at a top school, the game industry programming jobs seemed like the hardest ones to get. They wanted very experienced programmers with specific programming skills (C++, optimized assembly) and high level math coursework. These were all for entry level programming, rather than QA or design. I do not know a whole lot other than that though, because I've never wanted to get into the game industry mainly due to the "treat their employees like crap" reason you mentioned.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:25 AM on August 10, 2010
Have you considered writing smaller Android/iPhone/Flash games yourself? If you have the skills to code and do the art, that would be the best way to get a chance to design actual games that real people would play right now. I don't know if that would lead to the kind of industry jobs you are looking for but it would be a good way to gain some experience and make some extra money at the same time.
When I was looking for a job coming out of 4 year CS program at a top school, the game industry programming jobs seemed like the hardest ones to get. They wanted very experienced programmers with specific programming skills (C++, optimized assembly) and high level math coursework. These were all for entry level programming, rather than QA or design. I do not know a whole lot other than that though, because I've never wanted to get into the game industry mainly due to the "treat their employees like crap" reason you mentioned.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:25 AM on August 10, 2010
Response by poster: I think you should ask your professors what they think about your question, because I'm curious if they agree with me.
It was a while since I asked them this type of question, but the opinion seemed to be to build a portfolio and demonstrate knowledge in order to get hired. I will consider your advice.
Also, we live in the same town pwnguin, we should get together.
posted by hellojed at 10:32 AM on August 10, 2010
It was a while since I asked them this type of question, but the opinion seemed to be to build a portfolio and demonstrate knowledge in order to get hired. I will consider your advice.
Also, we live in the same town pwnguin, we should get together.
posted by hellojed at 10:32 AM on August 10, 2010
If you're considering moving, I'd recommend Boston over San Francisco. There's an active game development community here, and a lot more game startups than big corporations, which means a lot more job (and meaningful experience) opportunities.
Boston Post Mortem is a monthly game developers meetup you could take a look at to get a sense of the scene.
http://gamedev.meetup.com/ shows game development meetup groups in different cities, including a large one in Seattle.
I'd recommend (and look for as an employer) industry experience over education any day. Working on your own projects and meeting people are equally important. You want to be able to tell people about things you're working on, and as you see them at different events, show them how you're making progress and learning things. When you make good enough relationships, ask them about the possibility of doing an internship.
In addition to the modding scene, if you can find open-source games that look like they have good leadership committed to making the game happen, contributing there could be a great way to get your name on something popular.
Good luck!
posted by ElfWord at 10:48 AM on August 10, 2010
Boston Post Mortem is a monthly game developers meetup you could take a look at to get a sense of the scene.
http://gamedev.meetup.com/ shows game development meetup groups in different cities, including a large one in Seattle.
I'd recommend (and look for as an employer) industry experience over education any day. Working on your own projects and meeting people are equally important. You want to be able to tell people about things you're working on, and as you see them at different events, show them how you're making progress and learning things. When you make good enough relationships, ask them about the possibility of doing an internship.
In addition to the modding scene, if you can find open-source games that look like they have good leadership committed to making the game happen, contributing there could be a great way to get your name on something popular.
Good luck!
posted by ElfWord at 10:48 AM on August 10, 2010
You need to talk to industry, and find out what they want. Personally, I would aim high - creating that portfolio may take a lot of time. Why not try to get a QA job right off the bat and work your way up?
You need to go where the largest concentration of game developers are, and get in contact with a professional or industry assocation to make contacts. The largest game developer centres in Canada (which has been a major world centre for game development) are Vancouver and Montreal, and I'm assuming the big centres in the States would be SF, LA, Seattle and New York. You need to find concentrations of studios and publishers which support an ecosystem of game developers who will hire you.
I'm not surprised you had no luck at GDC - the event is meant mainly for leadership. You may wish to instead connect with ACM SIGGRAPH, which is kind of a professional association aimed more at the talent in the industry. SIGGRAPH covers more than just the gaming industry - it represents and provides services to professionals in the animation and FX industries, and there is a fair bit of ongoing convergence between games and movies in this realm.
Anyway, the SIGGRAPH 2011 Conference will be held in Vancouver (the first time the North American conference is being held outside of the US), and if you have the dough it is well-worth attending. It's going to be huge - similar to the Olympics, in terms of its significance) and there will be people just like you (from the US) whom you can network with. I volunteer with SIGGRAPH, so send me a MeMail if you would like more info.
I recently did a project comparing the Vancouver and Seattle markets. Although I'm aware you can't easily work in Vancouver, you may wish to consider Seattle. There are more actual publishers there, and potentially more projects. Check out the website of a recent (July 2010) industry meetup called Casual Connect.
As I said, the industry is in a state of flux right now. Due to piracy and other issues, console gaming is dying. Mobile seems like the next wave, but nobody can figure out how to monetize it. The one area where you should be looking is casual gaming - companies that publish cross-platform, browser-based games like Farmville. Check out the FX industry.
Do some research and start making phone calls. It's the only way you will get any traction.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:59 AM on August 10, 2010
You need to go where the largest concentration of game developers are, and get in contact with a professional or industry assocation to make contacts. The largest game developer centres in Canada (which has been a major world centre for game development) are Vancouver and Montreal, and I'm assuming the big centres in the States would be SF, LA, Seattle and New York. You need to find concentrations of studios and publishers which support an ecosystem of game developers who will hire you.
I'm not surprised you had no luck at GDC - the event is meant mainly for leadership. You may wish to instead connect with ACM SIGGRAPH, which is kind of a professional association aimed more at the talent in the industry. SIGGRAPH covers more than just the gaming industry - it represents and provides services to professionals in the animation and FX industries, and there is a fair bit of ongoing convergence between games and movies in this realm.
Anyway, the SIGGRAPH 2011 Conference will be held in Vancouver (the first time the North American conference is being held outside of the US), and if you have the dough it is well-worth attending. It's going to be huge - similar to the Olympics, in terms of its significance) and there will be people just like you (from the US) whom you can network with. I volunteer with SIGGRAPH, so send me a MeMail if you would like more info.
I recently did a project comparing the Vancouver and Seattle markets. Although I'm aware you can't easily work in Vancouver, you may wish to consider Seattle. There are more actual publishers there, and potentially more projects. Check out the website of a recent (July 2010) industry meetup called Casual Connect.
As I said, the industry is in a state of flux right now. Due to piracy and other issues, console gaming is dying. Mobile seems like the next wave, but nobody can figure out how to monetize it. The one area where you should be looking is casual gaming - companies that publish cross-platform, browser-based games like Farmville. Check out the FX industry.
Do some research and start making phone calls. It's the only way you will get any traction.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:59 AM on August 10, 2010
I haven't worked in the game industry in almost a decade, so my advice may be out of date, but I'd work on your portfolio and networking rather than more school.
Having a working demo says a LOT about both your skill set and your dedication. It is really hard to complete anything as complicated as a game on your own. If you work full time for six months on your demo and decide it isn't the right path for you then all you've wasted is the time not tuition or moving expenses.
As you've guessed most people (at least with the current economy) start in QA. If you're considering being a programmer QA is considerably LESS brutal than that, so don't think it will be great if you can just make it through the tough part at the beginning.
posted by ecurtz at 1:43 PM on August 10, 2010
Having a working demo says a LOT about both your skill set and your dedication. It is really hard to complete anything as complicated as a game on your own. If you work full time for six months on your demo and decide it isn't the right path for you then all you've wasted is the time not tuition or moving expenses.
As you've guessed most people (at least with the current economy) start in QA. If you're considering being a programmer QA is considerably LESS brutal than that, so don't think it will be great if you can just make it through the tough part at the beginning.
posted by ecurtz at 1:43 PM on August 10, 2010
I think Seattle would be a good choice, seeing as how Vancouver is close by, and home to quite a few developers as well. It's all about who you know to get in the door anywhere. I used to work for Blizzard Entertainment, and usually the only way people would go straight into sound, art, or design, would be if they knew someone, and had really good talent that they could showcase. Otherwise, it's not too difficult to start out as a QA tester and work your way up from there.
Your other option is to somehow find out the video game names of employees that work where you're interested, and start gaming with them. For instance, there's ton of blizzard employees in a Steam group called Snowstorm or something like that, might start there =)
posted by soss at 11:30 AM on August 11, 2010
Your other option is to somehow find out the video game names of employees that work where you're interested, and start gaming with them. For instance, there's ton of blizzard employees in a Steam group called Snowstorm or something like that, might start there =)
posted by soss at 11:30 AM on August 11, 2010
Response by poster: Guildhall in Dallas has a booth here at Quakecon, and they said I could hop into their Master's Degree program from my associates since a bunch of credits would transfer. There's that. Mobile development would be nice, I've always wanted to mess with the Android NDK anyway.
I tried applying for Blizz QA a while back and they never got back to me, maybe I'll try after graduation.
Thank you for all the answers, they are really informative and helpful.
posted by hellojed at 10:54 AM on August 13, 2010
I tried applying for Blizz QA a while back and they never got back to me, maybe I'll try after graduation.
Thank you for all the answers, they are really informative and helpful.
posted by hellojed at 10:54 AM on August 13, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
-Trinsic
posted by TrinsicWS at 9:17 AM on August 10, 2010