Beyond Ecce Romani
July 23, 2010 1:00 PM Subscribe
I took Latin classes for three years but interest has recently waned. Know of any Ancient Roman(/Ecclesiastical/Medieval) page-turners?
I could translate a lot of the Aeneid then, assuming I had a Latin-English dictionary and grammar reference book handy. I gave it up for a while (about a year) because I was absurdly busy; I'm looking for something that will spark my interest in the language again. I'm fine with the learn-by-painstakingly-looking-up-words-and-grammatical-constructs-method, but I want something I will enjoy reading. Bonus points if there's a cheap, readily available paperback edition. Anthologies are fair game, too. Thanks!
I could translate a lot of the Aeneid then, assuming I had a Latin-English dictionary and grammar reference book handy. I gave it up for a while (about a year) because I was absurdly busy; I'm looking for something that will spark my interest in the language again. I'm fine with the learn-by-painstakingly-looking-up-words-and-grammatical-constructs-method, but I want something I will enjoy reading. Bonus points if there's a cheap, readily available paperback edition. Anthologies are fair game, too. Thanks!
Apuleius' Golden Ass. If you want to cheat, there's also a pretty funny BBC Radio adaptation.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:10 PM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 1:10 PM on July 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not medieval, I'm afraid -- but fun, inexpensive, and with good commentary:
Catullus
Pro Caelio
posted by lucy.verdad at 1:31 PM on July 23, 2010
Catullus
Pro Caelio
posted by lucy.verdad at 1:31 PM on July 23, 2010
I second Apuleius. I feel like I mgith have had a facing page translation of that once upon a time..
Oh and the Loeb facing page for Catullus is hilarious, mostly in the random things they either don't translate at all or translate in a much less risque fashion (at least my 10 year old copy fits this, anyhow).
posted by nat at 1:49 PM on July 23, 2010
Oh and the Loeb facing page for Catullus is hilarious, mostly in the random things they either don't translate at all or translate in a much less risque fashion (at least my 10 year old copy fits this, anyhow).
posted by nat at 1:49 PM on July 23, 2010
lucy.verdad that's funny cause the 2 things I would recommend first here are the poems of Catullus and Cicero's Pro Caelio...
so I'm nthing those...
also, the letters of Heloise & Abelard, 12th c. France, very eloquent sophisticated users of Medieval Latin (esp. Heloise) and the letters are beautiful
posted by supermedusa at 1:58 PM on July 23, 2010
so I'm nthing those...
also, the letters of Heloise & Abelard, 12th c. France, very eloquent sophisticated users of Medieval Latin (esp. Heloise) and the letters are beautiful
posted by supermedusa at 1:58 PM on July 23, 2010
It's not an ancient or medieval work, but for potentially more enjoyable reading there are Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis and Harrius Potter et Camera Secretorum. Both were translated by Peter Needham, who taught classics at Eton for over 30 years. The reviews of both have been very positive.
posted by jedicus at 2:01 PM on July 23, 2010
posted by jedicus at 2:01 PM on July 23, 2010
Seconding the Harry Potter books. They're a fun read, and I find it more engaging when I'm reading something very familiar. It's more interesting to me when I have a stake in the translation, and might have my own opinions about a better turn of phrase. For something else modern, try The Little Prince and Winnie the Pooh.
posted by lriG rorriM at 3:03 PM on July 23, 2010
posted by lriG rorriM at 3:03 PM on July 23, 2010
How about Suetonius? My Latin is intermediate, and I have had a really fun time reading the life of Julius Caesar. It's basically a breathless gossipy trashy tell-all with some history in it, and there are a lot of anecdotes that are just really amusing, in addition to the usual iacta-alea-est stuff. You can read all about the women he slept with! His epilepsy! How he didn't drink much, and in fact it was remarkable that he plotted to overthrow the state while sober! The time he was captured by pirates! The scurrilous verses his troops composed about how he was totally gay! I think it's fun, anyway. And it wasn't very hard to read at all.
There isn't a modern student edition of it with philological commentary, sadly -- the last such is from 1918 -- but the current edition does at least have a thorough historical commentary.
posted by sineala at 4:15 PM on July 23, 2010
There isn't a modern student edition of it with philological commentary, sadly -- the last such is from 1918 -- but the current edition does at least have a thorough historical commentary.
posted by sineala at 4:15 PM on July 23, 2010
Response by poster: I'd forgotten Catullus was mostly about sex! The only thing we read by him in class was a bastardized "easy Latin" version of Miser Passer, and that's probably the reason. But yeah, risque is definitely more likely to keep my attention.
Heloise and Abelard sound very interesting. As do Suetonius, Apuleius, and the Harry Potter things. I'll check them out. I'll probably end up buying that Ovid selection, too. New money sink: latin texts.
It looks like I've already got a lot of interesting things to read, so I'm going to go ahead and mark this as resolved, but if somebody thinks of anything else that's especially wonderful, feel free to add it.
posted by wayland at 6:36 PM on July 23, 2010
Heloise and Abelard sound very interesting. As do Suetonius, Apuleius, and the Harry Potter things. I'll check them out. I'll probably end up buying that Ovid selection, too. New money sink: latin texts.
It looks like I've already got a lot of interesting things to read, so I'm going to go ahead and mark this as resolved, but if somebody thinks of anything else that's especially wonderful, feel free to add it.
posted by wayland at 6:36 PM on July 23, 2010
How about Treasure Island?
More on the translator. (The Mount Hope Classics were funded by Ezra Parmalee Prentice, lawyer and husband of a Rockefeller and believer in progressive education in Latin.)
For more modern translations, see also here (would you believe Jane Austen's Superbia et Odium?)
Oh and the Loeb facing page for Catullus is hilarious, mostly in the random things they either don't translate at all or translate in a much less risque fashion (at least my 10 year old copy fits this, anyhow).
Ten year old? Surely they were de-bowdlerized earlier than that. Certainly they are full frontal now. (For the prurient, we're talking Catullus 16, the dirtiest poem in Latin)
See also
posted by IndigoJones at 6:41 PM on July 23, 2010
More on the translator. (The Mount Hope Classics were funded by Ezra Parmalee Prentice, lawyer and husband of a Rockefeller and believer in progressive education in Latin.)
For more modern translations, see also here (would you believe Jane Austen's Superbia et Odium?)
Oh and the Loeb facing page for Catullus is hilarious, mostly in the random things they either don't translate at all or translate in a much less risque fashion (at least my 10 year old copy fits this, anyhow).
Ten year old? Surely they were de-bowdlerized earlier than that. Certainly they are full frontal now. (For the prurient, we're talking Catullus 16, the dirtiest poem in Latin)
See also
posted by IndigoJones at 6:41 PM on July 23, 2010
Missed you on preview. If it's dirty you want, try Petronius.
posted by IndigoJones at 6:51 PM on July 23, 2010
posted by IndigoJones at 6:51 PM on July 23, 2010
Since you allow anthologies, I'll insert my obligatory recommendation of the Breviarium Urbis Romae Antiquae. If you're at all interested in the city of Rome, BURA is a great sort of travel guide to Rome spanning 11 centuries of Latin writers.
I also find the Latin Vulgate pretty readable -- I'm not at all Christian, but the gospels can make for good drama.
My trouble with Harrius Potter and Winnie Ille Pu is that they are too easy to "hear" in English; the syntax isn't hard enough Latin.
posted by xueexueg at 7:57 PM on July 23, 2010
I also find the Latin Vulgate pretty readable -- I'm not at all Christian, but the gospels can make for good drama.
My trouble with Harrius Potter and Winnie Ille Pu is that they are too easy to "hear" in English; the syntax isn't hard enough Latin.
posted by xueexueg at 7:57 PM on July 23, 2010
Let's see, this Loeb (Catullus, Tibullus, and Pervigilium Veneris) is a version from 1987 (I bought it in the late 90s); it claims to be de-bowdlerized compared to the original 1913 volume, but still translates irrumabo just as "stuff". (as in, "I will stuff you").
Also in Cat. 10 irrumator is translated as "beast".
Anyhow, for the OP, I'm sure you'd have fun figuring out more accurate translations here; also some of Catullus is pretty moving just straight up.
posted by nat at 8:59 PM on July 23, 2010
Also in Cat. 10 irrumator is translated as "beast".
Anyhow, for the OP, I'm sure you'd have fun figuring out more accurate translations here; also some of Catullus is pretty moving just straight up.
posted by nat at 8:59 PM on July 23, 2010
Caesar's Commentaries are pretty great if you like real life war stories, and fairly easy to translate.
posted by empath at 10:05 PM on July 23, 2010
posted by empath at 10:05 PM on July 23, 2010
Lactantius's De Mortibus Persecutorum ought to be a lot of fun. I've only read about it, but Lactantius basically writes how all the non-Christian emperors were horrible pagan sinners and died horrible deaths because of it. It's good times.
posted by cthuljew at 5:39 AM on July 24, 2010
posted by cthuljew at 5:39 AM on July 24, 2010
...also some of Catullus is pretty moving just straight up
... quoted for truth:-
Multas per gentes et multa per aequora vectus
Advenio has miseras, frater, ad inferias...
[Catullus 101]
One of the most dignified and tender poems mourning the death of a loved one ever written.
I read classics at university many years ago and have a fair sized classical library. The only Latin book that still comes down off the shelf every now and then nowadays is Horace's Odes. If lyric poetry is your thing, they are the very definition of timeless classics. But you ask for page-turners, and I could not describe Horace in those terms. Each Ode is to be savoured as a fine wine.
I'd endorse recommendations above to have a look at some of the speeches of Cicero - just outstanding oratory wherever you look. One obstacle is that, without knowledge of the historical context, the references, the in-jokes, and even the arguments themselves can all become a bit dry and mystifying. If you're not already familiar with them, I'd start by reading the first two books of Robert Harris' classical trilogy about the life of Cicero: Imperium and Lustrum (book three is not yet published). These are fantastic reads in their own right which vividly bring to life the death throes of the Roman Republic. You will then be able to go to the speeches described in them in the original Latin with all the insights you need to understand them. And I challenge you not to read the opening lines of "In Catilinam I" without a shiver going down your spine...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? Quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? Quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia?
posted by genesta at 12:50 PM on July 24, 2010
... quoted for truth:-
Multas per gentes et multa per aequora vectus
Advenio has miseras, frater, ad inferias...
[Catullus 101]
One of the most dignified and tender poems mourning the death of a loved one ever written.
I read classics at university many years ago and have a fair sized classical library. The only Latin book that still comes down off the shelf every now and then nowadays is Horace's Odes. If lyric poetry is your thing, they are the very definition of timeless classics. But you ask for page-turners, and I could not describe Horace in those terms. Each Ode is to be savoured as a fine wine.
I'd endorse recommendations above to have a look at some of the speeches of Cicero - just outstanding oratory wherever you look. One obstacle is that, without knowledge of the historical context, the references, the in-jokes, and even the arguments themselves can all become a bit dry and mystifying. If you're not already familiar with them, I'd start by reading the first two books of Robert Harris' classical trilogy about the life of Cicero: Imperium and Lustrum (book three is not yet published). These are fantastic reads in their own right which vividly bring to life the death throes of the Roman Republic. You will then be able to go to the speeches described in them in the original Latin with all the insights you need to understand them. And I challenge you not to read the opening lines of "In Catilinam I" without a shiver going down your spine...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? Quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? Quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia?
posted by genesta at 12:50 PM on July 24, 2010
The only Latin book that still comes down off the shelf every now and then nowadays is Horace's Odes. If lyric poetry is your thing, they are the very definition of timeless classics.
NB that Horace, wonderful though he is, is not the easiest Latin in the world. Something to savor in later years.
nat, interesting. Not even sure I have that Loeb (too many books in boxes, alas), and somewhat surprised they're still that delicate. I have a memory of other early Loebs where the naughty bits were translated in French or Italian, both Latin races from whom any sort of frightful nastiness could be expected.
See also Harrington's Medieval Latin (first edition only. Second edition has some problems).
Oh, and here's De Mortuis Persecutorum, if you want to get a taste
posted by IndigoJones at 4:26 PM on July 24, 2010
NB that Horace, wonderful though he is, is not the easiest Latin in the world. Something to savor in later years.
nat, interesting. Not even sure I have that Loeb (too many books in boxes, alas), and somewhat surprised they're still that delicate. I have a memory of other early Loebs where the naughty bits were translated in French or Italian, both Latin races from whom any sort of frightful nastiness could be expected.
See also Harrington's Medieval Latin (first edition only. Second edition has some problems).
Oh, and here's De Mortuis Persecutorum, if you want to get a taste
posted by IndigoJones at 4:26 PM on July 24, 2010
(That is to say, my memory of the last time I noticed dirty bits in Loebs didn't strike me as that delicate. One more proof not to rely on memory.)
posted by IndigoJones at 4:32 PM on July 24, 2010
posted by IndigoJones at 4:32 PM on July 24, 2010
More on updated Loebs.
And how could we forget, for dirty, Ovid? Naughty enough to get himself exiled from Augustan Rome.
posted by IndigoJones at 3:55 PM on August 1, 2010
And how could we forget, for dirty, Ovid? Naughty enough to get himself exiled from Augustan Rome.
posted by IndigoJones at 3:55 PM on August 1, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
http://www.amazon.ca/Reading-Ovid-Metamorphoses-Peter-Jones/dp/0521613329/
posted by Paquda at 1:09 PM on July 23, 2010