Give me all your sex, this is a robbery!
July 20, 2010 2:39 PM Subscribe
How do I get my SO to be honest about sex, and what's all this fuss about open relationships? Will it save me from a lifetime of dissatisfaction?
Hetero couple in their late 20s. Female here. I have a higher sex drive than my partner. Solve these problems and I'll give you a cookie:
My current SO will often take part in the initiation of sex (teasing, dirty talk, foreplay) and will then give some excuse for not wanting to continue. While his excuses are normally time or fatigue, which are perfectly acceptable, it frustrates me when he lets it get to that point. I've complained numerous times and asked him to please stop me/us if he really isn't feeling up to it, but he continues to do so. I've tried asking whether it was going to happen, but that can get tedious and is not very spontaneous.
How do I get it in his head how frustrating this is and get him to be real when he’s not feeling it?
Now—onto the bigger picture. I warned my current SO that I have a voracious appetite for sex. In a previous LTR, which was several years long, my sex life dwindled to once or twice a month, leading me to cheat. I know that is not an excuse. It was a horrible thing to do. After that relationship ended, I thought that monogamy was not right for me. However, I met my current SO, and he made me feel like it was worth it/possible. I love my SO, and we have intentions to spend our lives together. I hope to do everything in my power to have a loving, healthy, trusting relationship. Unfortunately, I know that down the road I’ll grow dissatisfied. My libido never seems to wane as time goes on, but I know (and I’ve seen first hand) that it happens to other people. It’s probably natural, which I accept, and I’m most likely a freak of nature. I also accept that I have an enormous desire for sex, and that almost everyone is less interested in sex than I am. I've been starting to feel that slight push I felt in my previous relationship, before my eyes and hands started to wander, and I do NOT want to have to constantly fight with myself to keep honest and "happy".
Is an open relationship a good solution for us? I’m open to anything that will keep us happy for the rest of our lives, but I want to make sure that it is the healthiest solution. What are your experiences with this? If you did this, what were some of your ground rules? If you chose another path, what was it?
Throwaway: cookiesforadvice@gmail.com
Hetero couple in their late 20s. Female here. I have a higher sex drive than my partner. Solve these problems and I'll give you a cookie:
My current SO will often take part in the initiation of sex (teasing, dirty talk, foreplay) and will then give some excuse for not wanting to continue. While his excuses are normally time or fatigue, which are perfectly acceptable, it frustrates me when he lets it get to that point. I've complained numerous times and asked him to please stop me/us if he really isn't feeling up to it, but he continues to do so. I've tried asking whether it was going to happen, but that can get tedious and is not very spontaneous.
How do I get it in his head how frustrating this is and get him to be real when he’s not feeling it?
Now—onto the bigger picture. I warned my current SO that I have a voracious appetite for sex. In a previous LTR, which was several years long, my sex life dwindled to once or twice a month, leading me to cheat. I know that is not an excuse. It was a horrible thing to do. After that relationship ended, I thought that monogamy was not right for me. However, I met my current SO, and he made me feel like it was worth it/possible. I love my SO, and we have intentions to spend our lives together. I hope to do everything in my power to have a loving, healthy, trusting relationship. Unfortunately, I know that down the road I’ll grow dissatisfied. My libido never seems to wane as time goes on, but I know (and I’ve seen first hand) that it happens to other people. It’s probably natural, which I accept, and I’m most likely a freak of nature. I also accept that I have an enormous desire for sex, and that almost everyone is less interested in sex than I am. I've been starting to feel that slight push I felt in my previous relationship, before my eyes and hands started to wander, and I do NOT want to have to constantly fight with myself to keep honest and "happy".
Is an open relationship a good solution for us? I’m open to anything that will keep us happy for the rest of our lives, but I want to make sure that it is the healthiest solution. What are your experiences with this? If you did this, what were some of your ground rules? If you chose another path, what was it?
Throwaway: cookiesforadvice@gmail.com
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
Is it possible that he enjoys teasing and foreplay and the like, but sees them as a sexual expression in and of themselves, and not just a lead up to "the real thing"? What, exactly (if you don't mind sharing) is he pulling away from? Penetrative sex? Getting you off? Anything beyond kissing? Anything beyond flirting? What exactly are you not getting out of these exchanges that you would like to be getting?
Does your boyfriend have really legitimate reasons not to be able to devote time to sex? Is he crazy busy at work, exhausted, not feeling well? If this is the case I think you should lay off and maybe go get acquainted with your right hand rather than seeking other partners. People get to be tired or busy or cranky or sick sometimes without having to worry that their partner is missing out on sex.
An open relationship can generally only work if everyone involved wants it and can truly handle it. Be careful, because a lot of people in your boyfriend's position will pretend they think it's a good idea but secretly not be OK with it.
posted by Sara C. at 2:55 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Does your boyfriend have really legitimate reasons not to be able to devote time to sex? Is he crazy busy at work, exhausted, not feeling well? If this is the case I think you should lay off and maybe go get acquainted with your right hand rather than seeking other partners. People get to be tired or busy or cranky or sick sometimes without having to worry that their partner is missing out on sex.
An open relationship can generally only work if everyone involved wants it and can truly handle it. Be careful, because a lot of people in your boyfriend's position will pretend they think it's a good idea but secretly not be OK with it.
posted by Sara C. at 2:55 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh, girl, I feel you on the whole "once I've been in a relationship for a while, it's really difficult to control my urges to get with other people" tip.
In the beginning you're smitten and riding high on falling-in-love brain chemicals and fucking your significant other all the time and you tell yourself that this time is going to be different and you're not going to be a lying cheating sneakaround ever again.
And, well, as you've seen, time passes. It will always be a struggle. Monogamy is not the way the human brain or the human cunt or the human cock is naturally wired and while it's a very pretty concept, it's always going to be a struggle. For some people, they can handle the challenge.
For other people, it's a huge struggle, and one they often fail at. Another poly friend and I have a joke that we just can't not try to make out with everyone in the room, and it's a joke but it's also true because lordy I have tried not to make out with everyone in the room and somehow two drinks later my tongue is in somebody's mouth. I've never been voluntarily monogamous for more than maybe 6-8 months at a time. It just can't be done with me, and it always made me feel like a was a lying sneak around sack of shit and that I either had the option of continuing to be a terrible person or just staying single forever, having fuck buddies and never being close to anyone or having anyone to really rely on or love me.
There are other options.
When I got to the point that with my current alpha primary superrad #1 champion boyfriend where I knew that no matter how much I loved him it was only a matter of time before my high sex drive and poor impulse control landed me in someone's lap, I told him. And we talked about it. And lord, it was a tough conversation to have.
But there's options, and we discussed them.
A) Breaking up. If you're both really into each other, likely no one wants to break up.
B) Some form of open relationship.
Wait, where's plowing under my feelings and gritting my teeth any staying monogamous? Why isn't that an option?
Because I was honest, and you need to be too. Maybe you can struggle and fight the good fight for a partner who wants monogamy and succeed. But you know yourself better than everyone else, and if you know for a fucking fact that you're going to fail in trying to stay monogamous, then it's not a real option, and you need to be honest about that to yourself and to your partner.
I told my boyfriend how I cheated in previous relationships, and how awful it made me feel, and how I didn't want to do that to him, and when we hammered out some rules and read The Ethical Slut together and yadda yadda yadda and I realized that I wasn't a horrible lying slut who was going to die alone because what I was going out and doing was no longer cheating it was probably the biggest relief of my romantic career.
posted by Juliet Banana at 3:05 PM on July 20, 2010 [23 favorites]
In the beginning you're smitten and riding high on falling-in-love brain chemicals and fucking your significant other all the time and you tell yourself that this time is going to be different and you're not going to be a lying cheating sneakaround ever again.
And, well, as you've seen, time passes. It will always be a struggle. Monogamy is not the way the human brain or the human cunt or the human cock is naturally wired and while it's a very pretty concept, it's always going to be a struggle. For some people, they can handle the challenge.
For other people, it's a huge struggle, and one they often fail at. Another poly friend and I have a joke that we just can't not try to make out with everyone in the room, and it's a joke but it's also true because lordy I have tried not to make out with everyone in the room and somehow two drinks later my tongue is in somebody's mouth. I've never been voluntarily monogamous for more than maybe 6-8 months at a time. It just can't be done with me, and it always made me feel like a was a lying sneak around sack of shit and that I either had the option of continuing to be a terrible person or just staying single forever, having fuck buddies and never being close to anyone or having anyone to really rely on or love me.
There are other options.
When I got to the point that with my current alpha primary superrad #1 champion boyfriend where I knew that no matter how much I loved him it was only a matter of time before my high sex drive and poor impulse control landed me in someone's lap, I told him. And we talked about it. And lord, it was a tough conversation to have.
But there's options, and we discussed them.
A) Breaking up. If you're both really into each other, likely no one wants to break up.
B) Some form of open relationship.
Wait, where's plowing under my feelings and gritting my teeth any staying monogamous? Why isn't that an option?
Because I was honest, and you need to be too. Maybe you can struggle and fight the good fight for a partner who wants monogamy and succeed. But you know yourself better than everyone else, and if you know for a fucking fact that you're going to fail in trying to stay monogamous, then it's not a real option, and you need to be honest about that to yourself and to your partner.
I told my boyfriend how I cheated in previous relationships, and how awful it made me feel, and how I didn't want to do that to him, and when we hammered out some rules and read The Ethical Slut together and yadda yadda yadda and I realized that I wasn't a horrible lying slut who was going to die alone because what I was going out and doing was no longer cheating it was probably the biggest relief of my romantic career.
posted by Juliet Banana at 3:05 PM on July 20, 2010 [23 favorites]
My libido never seems to wane as time goes on, but I know (and I’ve seen first hand) that it happens to other people. It’s probably natural, which I accept, and I’m most likely a freak of nature.
You're not a freak of nature. Lots of women have a high sex drive, and hey, if you think this is interesting, a lot of us find our sex drive ramped up even more in our 30s. (Myself included.)
I think that an open relationship might be something that goes on the table for discussion, but not until you are clear on what your partner wants out of your sex life. Solve the communication problem first, THEN talk about ways to make you both happy sexually. Deciding to go for some flavor of open relationship is a big can of worms that requires a big commitment to very honest and nonjudgmental communication. If you can't do it, you can't do it.
posted by desuetude at 3:13 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
You're not a freak of nature. Lots of women have a high sex drive, and hey, if you think this is interesting, a lot of us find our sex drive ramped up even more in our 30s. (Myself included.)
I think that an open relationship might be something that goes on the table for discussion, but not until you are clear on what your partner wants out of your sex life. Solve the communication problem first, THEN talk about ways to make you both happy sexually. Deciding to go for some flavor of open relationship is a big can of worms that requires a big commitment to very honest and nonjudgmental communication. If you can't do it, you can't do it.
posted by desuetude at 3:13 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Juliet Banana makes very excellent points, if you feel that way, but I want to comment on this:
Monogamy is not the way the human brain or the human cunt or the human cock is naturally wired and while it's a very pretty concept, it's always going to be a struggle.
Whether the first part of that is true is up for debate (I'm definitely not saying it's Totally False, but it's certainly not Totally True), but the second part is definitely false. For some people, monogamy is never going to work, it's always going to be a struggle, will never make them happy. For some people, monogamy is easy, it's the only way they can be happy. For some (I would guess most) people, it's somewhere in between. All of these are okay.
But it means that people who feel the same way about it should be together, otherwise both sides are going to make the other side feel bad. It means that it's not okay to guilt/coerce people into living a romantic lifestyle they won't be happy living. It means that everyone should be honest with themselves and with their romantic partners, and even if two people love each other very much, if what makes them happy is diametrically opposite they shouldn't be together, even if that sucks.
posted by brainmouse at 3:13 PM on July 20, 2010 [27 favorites]
Monogamy is not the way the human brain or the human cunt or the human cock is naturally wired and while it's a very pretty concept, it's always going to be a struggle.
Whether the first part of that is true is up for debate (I'm definitely not saying it's Totally False, but it's certainly not Totally True), but the second part is definitely false. For some people, monogamy is never going to work, it's always going to be a struggle, will never make them happy. For some people, monogamy is easy, it's the only way they can be happy. For some (I would guess most) people, it's somewhere in between. All of these are okay.
But it means that people who feel the same way about it should be together, otherwise both sides are going to make the other side feel bad. It means that it's not okay to guilt/coerce people into living a romantic lifestyle they won't be happy living. It means that everyone should be honest with themselves and with their romantic partners, and even if two people love each other very much, if what makes them happy is diametrically opposite they shouldn't be together, even if that sucks.
posted by brainmouse at 3:13 PM on July 20, 2010 [27 favorites]
Once or twice a month is definitely not a high-volume sex frequency, if you're near the hump of the bell curve. What are you defining as a voracious appetite? Once or twice a week? Once or twice a day? More? If you're considering an open relationship as a means of getting what might be a normal (whatever that means) sex quota (I just made that up), you might bump this up to counseling level. Not all affection has to end in someone getting their ticket punched, but repeatedly winding you up and then shutting you down isn't just an issue of mismatched sex drives, it's an issue of, well, I don't even know what to hell to call that, but I would pay attention to that. That's officially Not Cool as a general rule.
On the other hand, if you're just not a one-man woman, by nature, then, sure, consider the open relationship thing.
Note: I was hoping that the title of your question would end with "... all your lovin', all your hugs and kisses, too," but there's just not a lot of ZZ Top fans around lately.
posted by adipocere at 3:14 PM on July 20, 2010
On the other hand, if you're just not a one-man woman, by nature, then, sure, consider the open relationship thing.
Note: I was hoping that the title of your question would end with "... all your lovin', all your hugs and kisses, too," but there's just not a lot of ZZ Top fans around lately.
posted by adipocere at 3:14 PM on July 20, 2010
Here are some questions it might be useful to know the answers to (feel free to email them to me, if you want, and I'll post them here):
1. How long have you been together?
2. Have you talked with him about the idea of an open relationship?
3. Have you ever heard him say anything about the idea of polygamy or open relationships (whether or not it was in the context of your relationship?)
4. How often does he do the initiate-but-then-stop thing? For instance, is it just an occasional thing (but annoying enough to be Asking Metafilter about) or is it so frequent that it's seriously getting in the way of having even an average level of sex?
I think it's great that you're so clear-headed about what you want and don't want. Reading between the lines, it seems like you think it's very likely that if you don't open up the relationship, you'll end up cheating. In other words, your sex drive is well above your boyfriend's; you foresee this continuing indefinitely; and neither of you would likely be content to compromise as far as how much sex to have with each other. Right? If so, I would recommend going for the open relationship so that you stay together and don't end up cheating. However, all the cautions that people have given about them are, of course, good points. Also, if there's anyone to take advice from on how to realistically make this work, it's Juliet Banana.
Back to the "teasing" issue: Sara C. makes a good point. You describe it as if it's a given that certain activities should lead to sex. Thus, he needs an "excuse" when they don't lead to sex, though you grudgingly admit that his excuses are "legitimate." I don't understand why he needs an excuse. Why are these things only worth doing as a means to an end (sex)? Is it possible that he actually enjoys them for their own sake? The very choice choice of the word "foreplay" implies that these things are valuable because they result in sex, but maybe he doesn't see it like that. (By the way, not to say you're using gender stereotypes, but I've personally found the stereotypes to be extremely misleading and frustrating in this area.)
adipocere: One or twice a month was in reference to the OP's previous relationship.
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:20 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
1. How long have you been together?
2. Have you talked with him about the idea of an open relationship?
3. Have you ever heard him say anything about the idea of polygamy or open relationships (whether or not it was in the context of your relationship?)
4. How often does he do the initiate-but-then-stop thing? For instance, is it just an occasional thing (but annoying enough to be Asking Metafilter about) or is it so frequent that it's seriously getting in the way of having even an average level of sex?
I think it's great that you're so clear-headed about what you want and don't want. Reading between the lines, it seems like you think it's very likely that if you don't open up the relationship, you'll end up cheating. In other words, your sex drive is well above your boyfriend's; you foresee this continuing indefinitely; and neither of you would likely be content to compromise as far as how much sex to have with each other. Right? If so, I would recommend going for the open relationship so that you stay together and don't end up cheating. However, all the cautions that people have given about them are, of course, good points. Also, if there's anyone to take advice from on how to realistically make this work, it's Juliet Banana.
Back to the "teasing" issue: Sara C. makes a good point. You describe it as if it's a given that certain activities should lead to sex. Thus, he needs an "excuse" when they don't lead to sex, though you grudgingly admit that his excuses are "legitimate." I don't understand why he needs an excuse. Why are these things only worth doing as a means to an end (sex)? Is it possible that he actually enjoys them for their own sake? The very choice choice of the word "foreplay" implies that these things are valuable because they result in sex, but maybe he doesn't see it like that. (By the way, not to say you're using gender stereotypes, but I've personally found the stereotypes to be extremely misleading and frustrating in this area.)
adipocere: One or twice a month was in reference to the OP's previous relationship.
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:20 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know, Jaltcoh. I read that. I was inquiring as to how much she thought was sufficient for her. Once or twice a month generally leads to arguments. What wasn't clear was how much she thought she needed in this or future relationships.
posted by adipocere at 3:24 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by adipocere at 3:24 PM on July 20, 2010
OK, I see. I also agree that it'd be useful to know what the OP considers to be her extreme desire for sex vs. her boyfriend's (presumably average) desire for sex. Maybe the former isn't so extreme and the latter isn't so average. If so, that would suggest that maybe it's just not a great match and the OP could do better.
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:29 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 3:29 PM on July 20, 2010
It's not easy, I know, but I think this is more immediate and basic than you realize. That makes sense; my experience is that sexual ennui (for lack of a better term for that weird panic that I think all long-term-relationship people know so well) can make it seem like the walls are closing in.
anonymous: “I've complained numerous times and asked him to please stop me/us if he really isn't feeling up to it, but he continues to do so. I've tried asking whether it was going to happen, but that can get tedious and is not very spontaneous.”
This is the problem right here: communication. It doesn't sound like you two get along terribly, but one of the more difficult things to communicate about clearly and directly is sex. It's common to meet couples who are relatively happy together, but it's rarer to meet couples who could communicate clearly and directly about sex, and who had a balanced set of expectations about what they wanted and needed and how that matched their partner.
You say that asking whether it's going to happen "can get tedious and is not very spontaneous." That's very true, but it sounds like that's something that's happening in the moment – as in "we're doing this foreplay thing now, is it really going to go anywhere?" You also say you've "complained numerous times and asked him to please stop" if it's not going to lead anywhere – but again, that sounds like it's very much in the sexual moment. It might seem sort of artificial, or it may even be an odd thing to talk about directly, but I think you really need to have a serious discussion about this with him, a discussion where you're not struggling between wanting to get him to keep going and trying to express how you feel about your mutual sex life in general.
I think you really need to sit down with him – go out to lunch, go get coffee, whatever – and say it: "look, I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but I want to have sex with you more. I've always had a strong libido, and I told you about that, right? This is really, really important to me – I'm not kidding around. Remember how I used to be with $PREVIOUS_PARTNER, and he didn't really try to help me meet my needs? I've always been happier with you, but lately I've been getting scared because I get that same feeling again. So here's the deal: we really need to have sex X times per week/day/hour. I understand that life gets in the way sometimes, and I know you don't mean to tease me; that's why I wanted to mention it - because this is really important to me, okay?"
It does seem sort of artificial, and it might seem a little embarrassing, but I think it's a fantastically important thing to be able to level with your partner about this stuff. Most people never do because they're afraid it'll kill the spark or destroy the moment or ruin the dynamic; so they go on the way they are, driving themselves crazy, angry or worried or scared to death they'll never get laid again, or at least that they'll never get laid as much as they really want to again. (I've been married before; believe me, I know the feeling.) My sense is that actually sitting down and hashing this stuff out is a lot less painful than we tend to think. Partnership doesn't mean being psychic, knowing exactly what your partner needs all the time; and it's a good thing to get to the point where your partner knows the difference between "I wanna fuck you" as in "I am being playful, but I totally don't mind if you leave for work" – and "I wanna fuck you" as in "I seriously have a strong libido, and I am frustrated enough in general right now by the lack of sex that I'm sort of wondering if maybe an open relationship would be better for us." The only way you can get to the point where he can tell the difference easily is if you explain to him a bit about what you're feeling right now.
posted by koeselitz at 3:29 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
anonymous: “I've complained numerous times and asked him to please stop me/us if he really isn't feeling up to it, but he continues to do so. I've tried asking whether it was going to happen, but that can get tedious and is not very spontaneous.”
This is the problem right here: communication. It doesn't sound like you two get along terribly, but one of the more difficult things to communicate about clearly and directly is sex. It's common to meet couples who are relatively happy together, but it's rarer to meet couples who could communicate clearly and directly about sex, and who had a balanced set of expectations about what they wanted and needed and how that matched their partner.
You say that asking whether it's going to happen "can get tedious and is not very spontaneous." That's very true, but it sounds like that's something that's happening in the moment – as in "we're doing this foreplay thing now, is it really going to go anywhere?" You also say you've "complained numerous times and asked him to please stop" if it's not going to lead anywhere – but again, that sounds like it's very much in the sexual moment. It might seem sort of artificial, or it may even be an odd thing to talk about directly, but I think you really need to have a serious discussion about this with him, a discussion where you're not struggling between wanting to get him to keep going and trying to express how you feel about your mutual sex life in general.
I think you really need to sit down with him – go out to lunch, go get coffee, whatever – and say it: "look, I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but I want to have sex with you more. I've always had a strong libido, and I told you about that, right? This is really, really important to me – I'm not kidding around. Remember how I used to be with $PREVIOUS_PARTNER, and he didn't really try to help me meet my needs? I've always been happier with you, but lately I've been getting scared because I get that same feeling again. So here's the deal: we really need to have sex X times per week/day/hour. I understand that life gets in the way sometimes, and I know you don't mean to tease me; that's why I wanted to mention it - because this is really important to me, okay?"
It does seem sort of artificial, and it might seem a little embarrassing, but I think it's a fantastically important thing to be able to level with your partner about this stuff. Most people never do because they're afraid it'll kill the spark or destroy the moment or ruin the dynamic; so they go on the way they are, driving themselves crazy, angry or worried or scared to death they'll never get laid again, or at least that they'll never get laid as much as they really want to again. (I've been married before; believe me, I know the feeling.) My sense is that actually sitting down and hashing this stuff out is a lot less painful than we tend to think. Partnership doesn't mean being psychic, knowing exactly what your partner needs all the time; and it's a good thing to get to the point where your partner knows the difference between "I wanna fuck you" as in "I am being playful, but I totally don't mind if you leave for work" – and "I wanna fuck you" as in "I seriously have a strong libido, and I am frustrated enough in general right now by the lack of sex that I'm sort of wondering if maybe an open relationship would be better for us." The only way you can get to the point where he can tell the difference easily is if you explain to him a bit about what you're feeling right now.
posted by koeselitz at 3:29 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
You are not at the point where you should be asking the internet about "ground rules" for an open relationship.
You need to talk to your boyfriend immediately about what his actions (or lack thereof) are making you consider. One possibility: even hearing the phrase "open relationship" could scare him so much about losing you that he'll become the attentive lover you want. You told him that previous LTR(s) fell apart because of bed death. Great. But you probably also told him that with him, it's different. Because of that, he might be resting on his laurels, so you need to give him a kick.
Of course, if you're just unsatisfied with any monogamous relationship, that's another story. In that case, another possibility is that an open relationship could be a dealbreaker, making your practical question moot.
It's also possible that, because of your previous LTR, you see any slowdown as inevitably progressing to the twice-a-month routine. If you're not there yet, don't make that assumption. If you're deeply unsatisfied now, that's one thing, but it might be premature to fundamentally change the nature of the relationship (or end it altogether) based on what might happen.
You need to talk to him, get on the same page, and, as needed, do some soul-searching about what sacrifices are worth making in your situation.
posted by supercres at 3:32 PM on July 20, 2010
You need to talk to your boyfriend immediately about what his actions (or lack thereof) are making you consider. One possibility: even hearing the phrase "open relationship" could scare him so much about losing you that he'll become the attentive lover you want. You told him that previous LTR(s) fell apart because of bed death. Great. But you probably also told him that with him, it's different. Because of that, he might be resting on his laurels, so you need to give him a kick.
Of course, if you're just unsatisfied with any monogamous relationship, that's another story. In that case, another possibility is that an open relationship could be a dealbreaker, making your practical question moot.
It's also possible that, because of your previous LTR, you see any slowdown as inevitably progressing to the twice-a-month routine. If you're not there yet, don't make that assumption. If you're deeply unsatisfied now, that's one thing, but it might be premature to fundamentally change the nature of the relationship (or end it altogether) based on what might happen.
You need to talk to him, get on the same page, and, as needed, do some soul-searching about what sacrifices are worth making in your situation.
posted by supercres at 3:32 PM on July 20, 2010
Let's start with expectations about monogamy. Monogamy means, more or less, a lifetime of dissatisfaction. You will not be "happy" in the traditional sense but a very small part of the time. Getting what you want is not the natural product of monogamy. Nor is spontaneous sex as a general rule. That's the bad news.
The good news is that spending a lifetime loving one person brings you so much more than you ever knew you wanted. Faithfully and tenaciously applied, monogamy allows you grow alongside each other, into each other. What you want changes over time so that what you want is closer to what makes him happy. And vice versa.
So, to address your question and also better orient yourself to future relationship success, focus on his needs first. What does he need to feel confident and sexy with you? Confidence is mandatory. Many men will back away from anything that inspires a sense of shame. Anything that might make him feel that the demand is higher than what he can deliver, in any sense, may put him off. Sure he is reluctant to admit up front that he won't be interested later, that's because letting you down makes him feel like a failure, and even the prospect of failure is shaming to most men. How can you make him feel sexy and confident?
You both might benefit from reading Hot Monogamy by Pat Love. She is very good at addressing the problem of differing levels of desire. Dr. Stephen Stosny has a lot of writing about men and the shame avoidance response. These experts might give you some background and tools to work with.
You need to become the world's leading expert in loving your mate (and, of course, the same for him.) Monogamy is successful when both people learn that focusing on the other person's needs before your own is the path to success. In life and in bed.
posted by cross_impact at 3:32 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
The good news is that spending a lifetime loving one person brings you so much more than you ever knew you wanted. Faithfully and tenaciously applied, monogamy allows you grow alongside each other, into each other. What you want changes over time so that what you want is closer to what makes him happy. And vice versa.
So, to address your question and also better orient yourself to future relationship success, focus on his needs first. What does he need to feel confident and sexy with you? Confidence is mandatory. Many men will back away from anything that inspires a sense of shame. Anything that might make him feel that the demand is higher than what he can deliver, in any sense, may put him off. Sure he is reluctant to admit up front that he won't be interested later, that's because letting you down makes him feel like a failure, and even the prospect of failure is shaming to most men. How can you make him feel sexy and confident?
You both might benefit from reading Hot Monogamy by Pat Love. She is very good at addressing the problem of differing levels of desire. Dr. Stephen Stosny has a lot of writing about men and the shame avoidance response. These experts might give you some background and tools to work with.
You need to become the world's leading expert in loving your mate (and, of course, the same for him.) Monogamy is successful when both people learn that focusing on the other person's needs before your own is the path to success. In life and in bed.
posted by cross_impact at 3:32 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
You haven't said anything about how HE feels about an open relationship. He has to be on board with that idea in order for it to work. You need to be discussing this with him, not with Metafilter.
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:00 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Lobster Garden at 4:00 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was in a similar situation with my last gf, except I was your boyfriend. Here are a few scattered reminisces (that in no way suggest your motivations are the same as hers):
1) What she considered foreplay, I considered expressions of love. Kissing doesn't have to be followed by fucking.
2) It wasn't that I didn't want to have sex; it's just that I didn't really like having sex with her. It was a turnoff, but I cared enough about her to stick with the relationship anyway. BIG mistake.
3) She would have expressed herself the same as you: "I have a voracious appetite for sex." In fact, sex was just a means to an end for her. What she really wanted was to be used like a fuck-toy. We tried couple's counseling at the end, in which it just became clear that sex for her was all about working out her daddy issues.
4) Sex was great fun for a few months in the beginning, but the emotionlessness of it wore thin very quickly. For me, it became boring and monotonous, no matter what crazy shit we did. She wanted to have sex twice a day or more, which for me would have been like reading Ulysses every day of our relationship.
5) She actually suggested the whole "open relationship" thing, but backed off quickly the second a girl at a club tried to pick me up (which was semi-amusing, since if I had any interest at all in random sex, I wouldn't be in a relationship).
How do I get it in his head how frustrating this is and get him to be real when he’s not feeling it?
You can't, and even it you did, it wouldn't help - the two of you feel differently about these things. If you really want to fix things, couples counseling might be able to help. But really, just be honest with him - maybe he'll go for the whole 'open' thing. If he doesn't, do both of you a favor and walk away. I can't say this strongly enough: If it's really that hard for you not to cheat ("I do NOT want to have to constantly fight with myself to keep honest and 'happy'"), then it's unfair of you to keep wasting his time on this relationship.
Epilogue: We split up and met people with whom we're more compatible, and life is much better...for me. She still calls me occasionally to "hook up" and tell me how she has lots of sex but it feels "empty". *sigh*
posted by coolguymichael at 4:02 PM on July 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
1) What she considered foreplay, I considered expressions of love. Kissing doesn't have to be followed by fucking.
2) It wasn't that I didn't want to have sex; it's just that I didn't really like having sex with her. It was a turnoff, but I cared enough about her to stick with the relationship anyway. BIG mistake.
3) She would have expressed herself the same as you: "I have a voracious appetite for sex." In fact, sex was just a means to an end for her. What she really wanted was to be used like a fuck-toy. We tried couple's counseling at the end, in which it just became clear that sex for her was all about working out her daddy issues.
4) Sex was great fun for a few months in the beginning, but the emotionlessness of it wore thin very quickly. For me, it became boring and monotonous, no matter what crazy shit we did. She wanted to have sex twice a day or more, which for me would have been like reading Ulysses every day of our relationship.
5) She actually suggested the whole "open relationship" thing, but backed off quickly the second a girl at a club tried to pick me up (which was semi-amusing, since if I had any interest at all in random sex, I wouldn't be in a relationship).
How do I get it in his head how frustrating this is and get him to be real when he’s not feeling it?
You can't, and even it you did, it wouldn't help - the two of you feel differently about these things. If you really want to fix things, couples counseling might be able to help. But really, just be honest with him - maybe he'll go for the whole 'open' thing. If he doesn't, do both of you a favor and walk away. I can't say this strongly enough: If it's really that hard for you not to cheat ("I do NOT want to have to constantly fight with myself to keep honest and 'happy'"), then it's unfair of you to keep wasting his time on this relationship.
Epilogue: We split up and met people with whom we're more compatible, and life is much better...for me. She still calls me occasionally to "hook up" and tell me how she has lots of sex but it feels "empty". *sigh*
posted by coolguymichael at 4:02 PM on July 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
An open relationship can complement a relationship where there is mismatched or not completely fulfilled sexual desires [assuming both people are OK with it, terms are discussed and stuck to, communication is open, etc]. However, it can't fix a relationship where there is insufficient attraction or intimacy to maintain the bond. Romantic relationships require sex or some near equivalent, if that aspect is severely broken then no amount of extra-relationship sex is going to fix it.
posted by wildcrdj at 7:15 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by wildcrdj at 7:15 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
My current SO will often take part in the initiation of sex (teasing, dirty talk, foreplay) and will then give some excuse for not wanting to continue. While his excuses are normally time or fatigue, which are perfectly acceptable, it frustrates me when he lets it get to that point. I've complained numerous times and asked him to please stop me/us if he really isn't feeling up to it, but he continues to do so. I've tried asking whether it was going to happen, but that can get tedious and is not very spontaneous.
His excuses are NOT perfectly acceptable.
Everyone has 3 reasons for doing anything: the reason they give, the reason they believe, and the reason they did it.
The best liars (and this includes people lying to themselves to avoid scary introspection) always have reasonable excuses ready to explain their actions. In fact, more honest people are sometimes at a loss to explain why they did "X".
Your current SO intentionally leads you on with seduction and foreplay, and then intentionally leaves you unfulfilled and horny. He's getting something out of this awful behavior, emotionally. You're empowering it, by pretending to buy into his convenient excuses.
Want to know what a real lover will do, when running out of time or energy, when they know their SO is still unsatisfied? They'll go the extra mile, and bring their lover satisfaction anyway.
DTMFA. Find a real lover.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:23 PM on July 20, 2010
His excuses are NOT perfectly acceptable.
Everyone has 3 reasons for doing anything: the reason they give, the reason they believe, and the reason they did it.
The best liars (and this includes people lying to themselves to avoid scary introspection) always have reasonable excuses ready to explain their actions. In fact, more honest people are sometimes at a loss to explain why they did "X".
Your current SO intentionally leads you on with seduction and foreplay, and then intentionally leaves you unfulfilled and horny. He's getting something out of this awful behavior, emotionally. You're empowering it, by pretending to buy into his convenient excuses.
Want to know what a real lover will do, when running out of time or energy, when they know their SO is still unsatisfied? They'll go the extra mile, and bring their lover satisfaction anyway.
DTMFA. Find a real lover.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:23 PM on July 20, 2010
Your current SO intentionally leads you on with seduction and foreplay, and then intentionally leaves you unfulfilled and horny. He's getting something out of this awful behavior, emotionally. You're empowering it, by pretending to buy into his convenient excuses.
What is she supposed to do, rape the guy?
I know it's very Freshman Orientation Week of me to say this, but no means no. You don't even need an excuse. Nobody has to have sex with anybody else, for any reason, if they don't want to. Period.
I agree that there seems to be a certain level of sexual incompatibility here, but it's the Asker's choice to either hang with that and get used to having less sex, or go out and find someone else.
Your tone and your reasoning are both toxic.
posted by Sara C. at 7:50 PM on July 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
What is she supposed to do, rape the guy?
I know it's very Freshman Orientation Week of me to say this, but no means no. You don't even need an excuse. Nobody has to have sex with anybody else, for any reason, if they don't want to. Period.
I agree that there seems to be a certain level of sexual incompatibility here, but it's the Asker's choice to either hang with that and get used to having less sex, or go out and find someone else.
Your tone and your reasoning are both toxic.
posted by Sara C. at 7:50 PM on July 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
Is an open relationship a good solution for us?
This is a question for your SO alone. It is a negotiation between you and him, not you, him and the internet. Please do not print out this question for use in negotiations.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:44 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is a question for your SO alone. It is a negotiation between you and him, not you, him and the internet. Please do not print out this question for use in negotiations.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:44 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
anonymous: My current SO will often take part in the initiation of sex (teasing, dirty talk, foreplay) and will then give some excuse for not wanting to continue.
One way to look at this is that you're seeing it from an All Roads Lead to Rome perspective, which frankly is kind of limiting. Penis-in-vagina intercourse is not the be all or end all of heterosexuality. Your partner may genuinely not be all that fussed about it which is OK too.
Framing this in terms of compromises you can make to keep you both happy may be a better approach. If you're all worked up and he doesn't want to fuck, fine. If he's willing to stay on board while you get yourself off manually or with battery-powered assistance, that seems like a happy outcome to me.
If however he is not willing to go there, then you have a serious problem and this relationship would not be sustainable to me.
On the whole non-monogamy thing: no. Just do not go there from here. I am a fan of non-monogamy for sure but it requires that the two primary partners have a rock-solid relationship, massively good communication, and a healthy and satisfying sex life together. You two are missing at least two out of three.
You are in your current circumstances poor candidates. You need to fix what you have before you bring additional partners into the mix if you want to look out for the longevity of your current relationship.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:37 AM on July 21, 2010
One way to look at this is that you're seeing it from an All Roads Lead to Rome perspective, which frankly is kind of limiting. Penis-in-vagina intercourse is not the be all or end all of heterosexuality. Your partner may genuinely not be all that fussed about it which is OK too.
Framing this in terms of compromises you can make to keep you both happy may be a better approach. If you're all worked up and he doesn't want to fuck, fine. If he's willing to stay on board while you get yourself off manually or with battery-powered assistance, that seems like a happy outcome to me.
If however he is not willing to go there, then you have a serious problem and this relationship would not be sustainable to me.
On the whole non-monogamy thing: no. Just do not go there from here. I am a fan of non-monogamy for sure but it requires that the two primary partners have a rock-solid relationship, massively good communication, and a healthy and satisfying sex life together. You two are missing at least two out of three.
You are in your current circumstances poor candidates. You need to fix what you have before you bring additional partners into the mix if you want to look out for the longevity of your current relationship.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:37 AM on July 21, 2010
This article seems relevant for suggesting six things to try. Some ideas that haven't been mentioned yet include:
1: finding a compromise
2: scheduling sex
3: redefining sex in a way that gets you off and also works for him
4: rethinking the situations in which you do have sex
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:19 AM on July 21, 2010
1: finding a compromise
2: scheduling sex
3: redefining sex in a way that gets you off and also works for him
4: rethinking the situations in which you do have sex
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:19 AM on July 21, 2010
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This is not an answerable question without knowing how he feels. Might it be a good option for YOU? Sure. But for an open relationship to work, both parties have to be interested in that -- not coerced, not guilted, not convinced, but interested. That means that open relationships are harder to find. In addition, open relationships need to be based on A LOT of communication, and you started by telling us he's not very good at that. If you can't be happy in a monogamous relationship, this might not be the relationship for you, but you will have to talk to him to find out.
posted by brainmouse at 2:54 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]