burn bridges, salt fields, cut ties, disappear
July 20, 2010 1:01 PM Subscribe
Feel like I want to burn bridges, salt fields, cut ties, and disappear.
It's never going to get better. Lack of deep personal connections. Isolated work environment. A history of suffering. Fifteen years in one place and an on-going lack of friendships. Tied down to underwater house. Tied down to ex-wife and kids from first marriage. Tied down to second marriage where we're both frequently fighting or unhappy.
Accomplished nothing in life worth mentioning. Used to have big ideas about things but realization has crept in that I will never accomplish any of my goals, or that the goals are not worthwhile. History of self-indulgence. Feel like I want to leave it all behind. But don't want to abandon my kids or force them to decide between parents. When I was growing up I had to choose between parents and it was terrible. Sometimes feel things too deeply -- hurts and hopes -- where I blow things out of proportion.
Been to several therapists. Some had interesting ideas for therapy which I sometimes implemented. Sometimes they wanted to put me on drugs. Is that the answer? Diagnosed with Klinefelter's syndrome 10 years ago, taking androgel regularly. Feelings of meaninglessness. When in groups frequently have feelings of social anxiety unless I know them well. Tend to clam up in groups.
What should I do?
It's never going to get better. Lack of deep personal connections. Isolated work environment. A history of suffering. Fifteen years in one place and an on-going lack of friendships. Tied down to underwater house. Tied down to ex-wife and kids from first marriage. Tied down to second marriage where we're both frequently fighting or unhappy.
Accomplished nothing in life worth mentioning. Used to have big ideas about things but realization has crept in that I will never accomplish any of my goals, or that the goals are not worthwhile. History of self-indulgence. Feel like I want to leave it all behind. But don't want to abandon my kids or force them to decide between parents. When I was growing up I had to choose between parents and it was terrible. Sometimes feel things too deeply -- hurts and hopes -- where I blow things out of proportion.
Been to several therapists. Some had interesting ideas for therapy which I sometimes implemented. Sometimes they wanted to put me on drugs. Is that the answer? Diagnosed with Klinefelter's syndrome 10 years ago, taking androgel regularly. Feelings of meaninglessness. When in groups frequently have feelings of social anxiety unless I know them well. Tend to clam up in groups.
What should I do?
You've been through all that and haven't tried medication yet, eh? It's worth a try, if even just to raise your foundation a little bit out of the mud so you can start re-building.
posted by circular at 1:07 PM on July 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by circular at 1:07 PM on July 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Are you seeing a therapist at this point? If not, please consider going back to one.
posted by BZArcher at 1:11 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by BZArcher at 1:11 PM on July 20, 2010
Two words of advice: Therapy, again. And ask a mod to ANONYMIZE this post.
posted by Think_Long at 1:12 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Think_Long at 1:12 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
it's not going to help your tied down and can't get away feeling - but, the one thing you shouldn't ever walk away from is the kids. leave your wife, declare bankruptcy to get out of the house, move to one or two towns over, get on some meds, and be a good father. you might not be able to accomplish your goals (although, i wonder if that's actually true), but not giving the world 2 more screwed up people because dad couldn't man up seems like a pretty good legacy to leave behind.
posted by nadawi at 1:12 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 1:12 PM on July 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Your writing has more than a hint of depression. Sometimes counseling can help people get away from the negative thought process. Other times, drugs are needed no matter how good the therapist. We can't "talk" our way out of a chemical imbalance. I'm not suggesting one course of the other, just that many people are going to have to take a drug for a peroid of time to feel "normal." You may or may not be one of those people.
Going on a forum and asking stangers what you should do for something like this really jumps out at me like you really need some kind of face to face support. Everyone on here can offer you some kind of advice or opinion, but they don't know your story. For whatever my advice is worth, I think you need someone along side you to help sort out your current situation. We are here for support, but it's pretty limited.
posted by WhiteWhale at 1:14 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Going on a forum and asking stangers what you should do for something like this really jumps out at me like you really need some kind of face to face support. Everyone on here can offer you some kind of advice or opinion, but they don't know your story. For whatever my advice is worth, I think you need someone along side you to help sort out your current situation. We are here for support, but it's pretty limited.
posted by WhiteWhale at 1:14 PM on July 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
I suspect that you need a specialist team to re-evaluate your Klinefelter's and provide adequate social and psychological support. It's a disorder that can cause trouble with executive functioning and judgment (2006 PubMed study here); I expect that the state of the art in care for folks with your condition has advanced since your initial diagnosis, and that you are not alone in having these feelings.
I'd urge you to seek medical support; enlist your GP and endocrine specialist. Your psychological distress is obvious from your post, and it's probably just as much connected to the Klinefelter's as it is to the underwater mortgage, the marital strife, and so on.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 1:21 PM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]
I'd urge you to seek medical support; enlist your GP and endocrine specialist. Your psychological distress is obvious from your post, and it's probably just as much connected to the Klinefelter's as it is to the underwater mortgage, the marital strife, and so on.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 1:21 PM on July 20, 2010 [6 favorites]
You have a toxic marriage/work environment going on, so my gut feeling is you should try making time to find activities outside that envelope. Can you get involved in volunteer work or a club of some kind for maybe a couple of hours a weekend? Activities are good because they put you in a social setting with a good mix of like-minded people without you being obligated to socialize, and there's so many different ones out there that you can move on if you don't like the people.
Once you address friendships and personal connections with others you'll be in a better place for tending to work, marriage, and family. You'll also have a support network in place if the marriage doesn't work out or the problems continue. I do agree medication might help, but unless you have a clearly diagnosed psychiatric issue I personally see it as a band-aid; as with having to exercise in order to reap the benefits of dieting, the other things need to be addressed too.
posted by crapmatic at 1:26 PM on July 20, 2010
Once you address friendships and personal connections with others you'll be in a better place for tending to work, marriage, and family. You'll also have a support network in place if the marriage doesn't work out or the problems continue. I do agree medication might help, but unless you have a clearly diagnosed psychiatric issue I personally see it as a band-aid; as with having to exercise in order to reap the benefits of dieting, the other things need to be addressed too.
posted by crapmatic at 1:26 PM on July 20, 2010
Running away to start a new life isn't going to work unless you fix what's wrong inside you. You do sound depressed to me, and if you haven't tried medication it's certainly worth a shot. It saved my husband's life, quite literally. Maybe it can save yours, so you won't feel the need to run away anymore from everyone who loves you.
posted by something something at 1:30 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by something something at 1:30 PM on July 20, 2010
Best answer: Sounds to me like you need to go dog sledding - or maybe kayaking.
Seriously, check out Outward Bound Wilderness courses - Adult Renewal Programs.
It will be a hard week, but it will stir your soul and revive a zest for life.
posted by Flood at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2010
Seriously, check out Outward Bound Wilderness courses - Adult Renewal Programs.
It will be a hard week, but it will stir your soul and revive a zest for life.
posted by Flood at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2010
It's okay to be skeptical of the drugs, but they are sometimes really helpful. They aren't a be-all end-all solution, they just lift you up from the cycle of despair so that you can get a handle on things. They are not meant to radically alter who you are just so that you can be a non-depressed zombie.
posted by molecicco at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by molecicco at 1:32 PM on July 20, 2010
Meds can be a good tool to get you stable enough to actually work on the stuff you need to work on in therapy and in life. The state of the art has come a long way in pharmacology. Why not give it a try? No one says it has to be forever.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:36 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:36 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
You ask whether medication might be helpful. I have to say you sound like others I have known how have struggled with depression and where the depression has colored the way they see themselves and their situation. It can be very hard to be objective in that sort of situation.
I don't have any first hand experience with them, but what I've been told is that anti-depressants are not going to be enough to bring you the happiness you want in life. They are not necessarily a permanent solution to anything. But they can stabilize your mood so that you can see things objectively and find ways to can change your life for the better. The long term improvement still requires work from you, but if you can't think rationally about your situation you're doomed before you start. It's so frustrating to talk to a depressed person and see themselves despairing when their situation has plenty of hope. So please consider trying antidepressants as a first step.
My cousin has had a reasonably good experience with anti-anxiety meds and therapy specifically focused on her anxiety problems. It has not solved them; she's not a social butterfly. But she can manage her anxiety much better than she used to. Anti-anxiety meds made a real big difference to Mike Krahulik, the Penny Arcade artist, and he's talked about it several times on the site and in podcasts/videocasts.
posted by serathen at 1:37 PM on July 20, 2010
I don't have any first hand experience with them, but what I've been told is that anti-depressants are not going to be enough to bring you the happiness you want in life. They are not necessarily a permanent solution to anything. But they can stabilize your mood so that you can see things objectively and find ways to can change your life for the better. The long term improvement still requires work from you, but if you can't think rationally about your situation you're doomed before you start. It's so frustrating to talk to a depressed person and see themselves despairing when their situation has plenty of hope. So please consider trying antidepressants as a first step.
My cousin has had a reasonably good experience with anti-anxiety meds and therapy specifically focused on her anxiety problems. It has not solved them; she's not a social butterfly. But she can manage her anxiety much better than she used to. Anti-anxiety meds made a real big difference to Mike Krahulik, the Penny Arcade artist, and he's talked about it several times on the site and in podcasts/videocasts.
posted by serathen at 1:37 PM on July 20, 2010
Seconding WhiteWhale on both the possible use of medication to find a new stable ground, and the need for a face-to-face discussion. The faceless masses can give you personal anecdotes and how we've dealt with things, but we won't know enough to give you any personalized suggestions. (That said, do not discount fairytale of los angeles' comments on your disorder and addressing that.)
In regards to your personal mark on the world, or the value of what you have done / will be doing, think about the masses of people in similar situations. Not that they're living pointless lives of nothing, but that everyone goes on in their own way, and few people in the history of the world really make a lasting impact. Don't let that bog you down, let that take some stress from your shoulders. Don't live your life as if people should make a monument to your works, then kick yourself because nothing is worth praise, but take solace in the fact that your efforts are sufficient, and that's fine. You matter to your kids, so make them proud. They'll be the ones to remember you.
With all that, find something that you enjoy doing, and take comfort in that. Find happiness within yourself, and if you can involve your wife and kids, all the better. Enjoy life in the now, don't focus on mortality or grand futility. Being happy is not without it's own meaning.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:37 PM on July 20, 2010
In regards to your personal mark on the world, or the value of what you have done / will be doing, think about the masses of people in similar situations. Not that they're living pointless lives of nothing, but that everyone goes on in their own way, and few people in the history of the world really make a lasting impact. Don't let that bog you down, let that take some stress from your shoulders. Don't live your life as if people should make a monument to your works, then kick yourself because nothing is worth praise, but take solace in the fact that your efforts are sufficient, and that's fine. You matter to your kids, so make them proud. They'll be the ones to remember you.
With all that, find something that you enjoy doing, and take comfort in that. Find happiness within yourself, and if you can involve your wife and kids, all the better. Enjoy life in the now, don't focus on mortality or grand futility. Being happy is not without it's own meaning.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:37 PM on July 20, 2010
Best answer: This isn't enough to build a life on (you'll still need to work on yourself and your own happiness) but know that, as long as you're capable of love and kindness and support, you're a hero to your children. Really. They don't care about your external trappings (if they're in their teens, this may temporarily not be the case, but give them 5 years).
posted by availablelight at 1:48 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by availablelight at 1:48 PM on July 20, 2010
If your condition, undiagnosed until later, caused the usual emotional problems in puberty these will emerge whenever life is not proceeding smoothly. As others advise therapy can make all the difference. Find an endocrinologist at the nearest teaching hospital to work with around dosage. Everything you describe can be symptomatic of low testosterone.
posted by Mertonian at 2:04 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by Mertonian at 2:04 PM on July 20, 2010
For some reason even people who would have no issue with taking drugs for other conditions resist it for mental health issues. I used to be that way myself, and struggled with anxiety and depression for years. As others have said, drugs aren't a magic cure-all, but they really can help manage the symptoms. One of the horrible catch-22's of depression is it makes you not want to try things that make it better. If the drugs can help with that, they can make things like therapy more effective. In my case the real benefit of the drugs is that they almost completely cured my panic attacks, which were tightly coupled with social anxiety and made it almost impossible for me to socialize, or even go to the grocery store for a while. They don't work for everyone, but there are a lot of people they've helped. Given the extremity of your situation, I agree with circular: if you've tried almost everything else, and it hasn't worked, and you feel absolutely miserable.... why NOT try drugs if your doctor(s) are recommending them?
posted by wildcrdj at 3:39 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by wildcrdj at 3:39 PM on July 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Therapy never worked for me until I tried it in conjunction with drugs. I burned through multiple therapists, silently flipping them off in my head, believing myself doomed beyond repair and going through the motions until I was really afraid of the person I'd become.
Here's what I did - maybe this will work for you:
1. After educating myself about each possible prescription I'd expect to receive after my diagnosis, I visited a cognitive behavioral therapist and a psychiatrist and had myself diagnosed independently.
2. When those diagnoses were the same, I was satisfied and accepted the prescription given to me. Both my psychiatrist and my talk therapist knew I was seeing another person. Both monitored me independently and offered different kinds of support and help.
3. Therapy worked, but I didn't like the medication's side effects, so I tapered off it with the psychologist's help after 11 months.
4. Therapy alone now works on me without medication. Since the original diagnosis and sessions, I've returned to therapy twice, both times successfully treating different/new issues.
Without this breakthrough, I'd still be struggling after more than a decade of suffering for no reason. I was about to lose my job, my sanity and my long-term relationship. It sounds like you're willing to lose everything, including your identity, and become "nothing" at this point. Therefore, you have nothing to lose by trying what I did. I'm incredibly sorry that you feel this way because I've felt it, too - but this state of mind is not the one upon which you can realistically "start over" guilt-free (or even at all, though it sounds appealing and possible now, sort of like hopping a train to the next town).
That's the stuff people write about that doesn't happen in real life. At least, not anymore.
Good luck.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:51 PM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
Here's what I did - maybe this will work for you:
1. After educating myself about each possible prescription I'd expect to receive after my diagnosis, I visited a cognitive behavioral therapist and a psychiatrist and had myself diagnosed independently.
2. When those diagnoses were the same, I was satisfied and accepted the prescription given to me. Both my psychiatrist and my talk therapist knew I was seeing another person. Both monitored me independently and offered different kinds of support and help.
3. Therapy worked, but I didn't like the medication's side effects, so I tapered off it with the psychologist's help after 11 months.
4. Therapy alone now works on me without medication. Since the original diagnosis and sessions, I've returned to therapy twice, both times successfully treating different/new issues.
Without this breakthrough, I'd still be struggling after more than a decade of suffering for no reason. I was about to lose my job, my sanity and my long-term relationship. It sounds like you're willing to lose everything, including your identity, and become "nothing" at this point. Therefore, you have nothing to lose by trying what I did. I'm incredibly sorry that you feel this way because I've felt it, too - but this state of mind is not the one upon which you can realistically "start over" guilt-free (or even at all, though it sounds appealing and possible now, sort of like hopping a train to the next town).
That's the stuff people write about that doesn't happen in real life. At least, not anymore.
Good luck.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:51 PM on July 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
Brother, wheresoever you go, that's where you are. I know that a lot of your troubles come from places outside of you, but it's the hurt on the inside that will follow you around, no matter where you find yourself- that's the part that needs soothing. You can't run from it by going someplace else- I've found this out by relocating geographically a few times now.
Godspeed to you, friend. I hope you can fight through the darkness someway, somehow.. but burning your bridges and vanishing into a puff of smoke might not be the escape you fantasize that it could be.
Godspeed indeed. You have my deepest empathy.
posted by Philby at 3:31 AM on July 21, 2010
Godspeed to you, friend. I hope you can fight through the darkness someway, somehow.. but burning your bridges and vanishing into a puff of smoke might not be the escape you fantasize that it could be.
Godspeed indeed. You have my deepest empathy.
posted by Philby at 3:31 AM on July 21, 2010
Possibly helpful -- Start Where You Are and When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron.
posted by cross_impact at 9:00 AM on July 21, 2010
posted by cross_impact at 9:00 AM on July 21, 2010
If you're like me, then what you really want to run away from is yourself. You can't do this by physically moving around from place to place, but medication might work by changing your internal landscape.
posted by prefpara at 5:20 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by prefpara at 5:20 PM on July 21, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you for all the responses. The thread seems to be positive towards drugs and therapy, negative towards running away. Many of the responses here could be marked as "best answer", and I was actually tempted to mark them all.
cross_impact -- thank you for suggesting books -- if I actually purchased and read books, I'm sure I would get a lot out of them. Unfortunately, I tend to buy books, look at them, and then put them on the shelf, unread. Lately I've been having luck with books on CD to listen to in the car as I commute to work.
availablelight -- it's good to remember that I'm a hero to my kids.
nadawa -- I'm sure it wasn't meant this way, but your reference to "man up" pissed me off.
Flood -- yes, maybe an Outward bound trip is in order. I went on one in 2005 and it was one of my best experiences ever. It was great bonding with people and having a positive shared experience.
fairytale of los angeles -- you may very well be right that my KS and medication needs to be re-examined. besides my daily dose of androgel, I don't think much about it.
Ultimately, I think I need to pursue my passions. I think other things will fall into place when I'm really doing what I enjoy -- and really enjoying what I'm doing. Perhaps therapy/drugs will get me off my butt and headed in the right direction.
posted by indigo4963 at 8:28 AM on July 22, 2010
cross_impact -- thank you for suggesting books -- if I actually purchased and read books, I'm sure I would get a lot out of them. Unfortunately, I tend to buy books, look at them, and then put them on the shelf, unread. Lately I've been having luck with books on CD to listen to in the car as I commute to work.
availablelight -- it's good to remember that I'm a hero to my kids.
nadawa -- I'm sure it wasn't meant this way, but your reference to "man up" pissed me off.
Flood -- yes, maybe an Outward bound trip is in order. I went on one in 2005 and it was one of my best experiences ever. It was great bonding with people and having a positive shared experience.
fairytale of los angeles -- you may very well be right that my KS and medication needs to be re-examined. besides my daily dose of androgel, I don't think much about it.
Ultimately, I think I need to pursue my passions. I think other things will fall into place when I'm really doing what I enjoy -- and really enjoying what I'm doing. Perhaps therapy/drugs will get me off my butt and headed in the right direction.
posted by indigo4963 at 8:28 AM on July 22, 2010
you were discussing leaving your children. i don't think there's a more appropriate time to tell someone to man up. if a mother had posted saying she wanted to run away from her kids, i would've told her to egg up.
i'm glad you found some help here. i hope that you reflect on why my comment made you angry and maybe you'll find it's because it was spot on.
posted by nadawi at 10:20 AM on July 22, 2010
i'm glad you found some help here. i hope that you reflect on why my comment made you angry and maybe you'll find it's because it was spot on.
posted by nadawi at 10:20 AM on July 22, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by DeltaForce at 1:05 PM on July 20, 2010 [13 favorites]