How do I maintain the boundaries I've drawn with my mom and not drop them when she gets upset?
July 17, 2010 1:06 AM
I'm trying to set healthy boundaries with my mom for the first time, but it's difficult because when I set a limit she gets upset, and then I feel awful and capitulate. She's not going to change, so what can I do or say to myself so that I don't give in quite so often?
My solution to dealing with my mother's lack of boundaries for most of my life has been to simply not tell her things that were important: if she doesn't know about it then she can't passive-aggressively badger me into telling her more than I want to. But that has always felt like a sort of rotten and childish strategy.
So lately, at the grand old age of 28, I have been trying to set real boundaries with her by actually speaking up and using my words, instead of just omitting information. The problem is that I've never done that before, and she gets angry and upset with me when I do. Then I feel like an awful daughter and eventually end up doing/saying what she wants me to do just so I stop feeling so guilty.
Once I've set some boundaries, how do I hold onto them? What do I do or say to myself to hold fast in the face of my mom's anger and unhappiness when I don't do what she wants? When I make major life decisions, my strategy for ignoring her badgering is to grit my teeth and put my head down (I also moved all of the way across the country), but all of the littler stuff wears me down. Thanks for your help.
My solution to dealing with my mother's lack of boundaries for most of my life has been to simply not tell her things that were important: if she doesn't know about it then she can't passive-aggressively badger me into telling her more than I want to. But that has always felt like a sort of rotten and childish strategy.
So lately, at the grand old age of 28, I have been trying to set real boundaries with her by actually speaking up and using my words, instead of just omitting information. The problem is that I've never done that before, and she gets angry and upset with me when I do. Then I feel like an awful daughter and eventually end up doing/saying what she wants me to do just so I stop feeling so guilty.
Once I've set some boundaries, how do I hold onto them? What do I do or say to myself to hold fast in the face of my mom's anger and unhappiness when I don't do what she wants? When I make major life decisions, my strategy for ignoring her badgering is to grit my teeth and put my head down (I also moved all of the way across the country), but all of the littler stuff wears me down. Thanks for your help.
Why not just walk out of conversations that turn angry and upset? Warn her first, but just politely walk out of the house, or hang the phone up. She will hate this, and try to claim that it's incredibly rude, but it's not and you might find it easier to maintain boundaries this way as you're not listening to her wear you down.
Alternatively, I don't think it's particularly childish to withhold information from family members. It probably means that you can't have a real friendship with them, but you might not be able to anyway.
posted by plonkee at 1:48 AM on July 17, 2010
Alternatively, I don't think it's particularly childish to withhold information from family members. It probably means that you can't have a real friendship with them, but you might not be able to anyway.
posted by plonkee at 1:48 AM on July 17, 2010
I agree that some clarification would help. Specifically, what do you mean by trying to set real boundaries with her by actually speaking up and using my words ? What sorts of boundaries / words / issues trigger the problem?
Ultimately you don't get to control other people's behavior; you only get to say which behavior you'll stick around for. You can say things like, "Mom, we've already talked about this. I know you don't like it but I've made my decision. It's not up for discussion. Let's talk about something else." If she persists, you leave or hang up.
You really have to refuse to participate in the pattern, or you just end up reinforcing it. If you draw clear, explicit boundaries for her but stick to them only some of the time then you're only making the problem worse. Halfhearted boundaries are worse than none at all, because they invite the other person to keep pushing to see how far they can get.
The fact that you feel momentarily better when you give in, if only because it gets her stop badgering, is part of what keeps this pattern in place. You need to learn to do without that particular bit of comfort. In other words, expect it to suck initially. The part where you get to feel better it is a little ways down the road. Keep moving towards it.
I found this book very helpful.
posted by jon1270 at 2:37 AM on July 17, 2010
Ultimately you don't get to control other people's behavior; you only get to say which behavior you'll stick around for. You can say things like, "Mom, we've already talked about this. I know you don't like it but I've made my decision. It's not up for discussion. Let's talk about something else." If she persists, you leave or hang up.
You really have to refuse to participate in the pattern, or you just end up reinforcing it. If you draw clear, explicit boundaries for her but stick to them only some of the time then you're only making the problem worse. Halfhearted boundaries are worse than none at all, because they invite the other person to keep pushing to see how far they can get.
The fact that you feel momentarily better when you give in, if only because it gets her stop badgering, is part of what keeps this pattern in place. You need to learn to do without that particular bit of comfort. In other words, expect it to suck initially. The part where you get to feel better it is a little ways down the road. Keep moving towards it.
I found this book very helpful.
posted by jon1270 at 2:37 AM on July 17, 2010
using my words, instead of just omitting information
I understand the first part of this. I don't understand the second part of this. Does this refer to a lifestyle choice that your mother disapproves of that you are omitting additional information that you know will just start a fight? If so that is very ambiguous wording.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:01 AM on July 17, 2010
I understand the first part of this. I don't understand the second part of this. Does this refer to a lifestyle choice that your mother disapproves of that you are omitting additional information that you know will just start a fight? If so that is very ambiguous wording.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:01 AM on July 17, 2010
Oh, this is exactly what Everybody does when you try to establish boundaries - they fight them! Change is hard, and they liked being just as boundariless as ever. The Dance of Intimacy talks a good bit about this process, about the one-step-forward-attempt-to-tug-you-back thing (you'll find it available at many libraries, it's an old standard).
The author's advice is mostly about how to stand firm with those boundaries, and she acknowledges that it's Hard - the people we love will fight tooth and nail against changes like these. But she gives examples of people in tough situations coming up with things they will say to their loved ones to help enforce the boundaries while acknowledging that it's hard for that other person and that they still love them, even if they're making this change for their Own Sanity. She frequently points out how much better the relationship can be, though, once these changes are reinforced.
posted by ldthomps at 5:30 AM on July 17, 2010
The author's advice is mostly about how to stand firm with those boundaries, and she acknowledges that it's Hard - the people we love will fight tooth and nail against changes like these. But she gives examples of people in tough situations coming up with things they will say to their loved ones to help enforce the boundaries while acknowledging that it's hard for that other person and that they still love them, even if they're making this change for their Own Sanity. She frequently points out how much better the relationship can be, though, once these changes are reinforced.
posted by ldthomps at 5:30 AM on July 17, 2010
You don't set boundaries with someone else, you set them with yourself. So don't say "she won't scream at me," but say "If she does, I'll end the conversation."
It will get worse before it gets better. So far you've trained her that if she flips out you will give in. You're going to have to hold firm till she gets used to your boundaries and gives up.
No one thanks you for setting boundaries or admits you were right. There will never be a moment when she realizes that screaming at you was inappropriate. She'll say "I have to walk on eggshells around you because you're oversensitive." And the only possible response is "Yep."
posted by selfmedicating at 5:50 AM on July 17, 2010
It will get worse before it gets better. So far you've trained her that if she flips out you will give in. You're going to have to hold firm till she gets used to your boundaries and gives up.
No one thanks you for setting boundaries or admits you were right. There will never be a moment when she realizes that screaming at you was inappropriate. She'll say "I have to walk on eggshells around you because you're oversensitive." And the only possible response is "Yep."
posted by selfmedicating at 5:50 AM on July 17, 2010
I really identify with your situation.
Try to detach yourself from her anger. I would get hung up on why my mother was angry about me setting boundaries. That would set off a spiral of but-she-shouldn'ts and she-should-change. Even if those things were accurate, they made ME angry. Then you had two angry women and resentment on both sides.
I finally figured out to think of another reason she might be angry about me expressing boundaries -- she perceived I changed. For 28 years you've had a certain level of boundaries with your mother, if any at all. Suddenly she finds resistance to the relationship she has been accustomed to. This is probably confusing to anyone, even if you are the overbearing-mother type. If you're like me, maybe you also threw out some tidbits of information you previously kept secret to try and prove that she doesn't know you or that you've been doing things your own way for a while. Imagine for a minute that you're in her shoes and finding out that your child didn't trust you enough to share innocuous details of her life. Expect her to find something to blame (you, a significant other, a job, a friend of yours) for the change.
My solution was to try and be compassionate towards her position but be firm and consistent. Say things like, "Thanks for the advice, I'll consider it." Then do what you want. Don't fall into the trap of feeling like you need to justify your decisions or convince her that you're right. It can be very difficult. I and others in my family have spent a lot of money on therapists to help us separate our identities from our mother and establish better boundaries. You might want to consider a session or two for yourself. Good luck.
posted by motsque at 5:55 AM on July 17, 2010
Try to detach yourself from her anger. I would get hung up on why my mother was angry about me setting boundaries. That would set off a spiral of but-she-shouldn'ts and she-should-change. Even if those things were accurate, they made ME angry. Then you had two angry women and resentment on both sides.
I finally figured out to think of another reason she might be angry about me expressing boundaries -- she perceived I changed. For 28 years you've had a certain level of boundaries with your mother, if any at all. Suddenly she finds resistance to the relationship she has been accustomed to. This is probably confusing to anyone, even if you are the overbearing-mother type. If you're like me, maybe you also threw out some tidbits of information you previously kept secret to try and prove that she doesn't know you or that you've been doing things your own way for a while. Imagine for a minute that you're in her shoes and finding out that your child didn't trust you enough to share innocuous details of her life. Expect her to find something to blame (you, a significant other, a job, a friend of yours) for the change.
My solution was to try and be compassionate towards her position but be firm and consistent. Say things like, "Thanks for the advice, I'll consider it." Then do what you want. Don't fall into the trap of feeling like you need to justify your decisions or convince her that you're right. It can be very difficult. I and others in my family have spent a lot of money on therapists to help us separate our identities from our mother and establish better boundaries. You might want to consider a session or two for yourself. Good luck.
posted by motsque at 5:55 AM on July 17, 2010
C_D, if I'm understanding the poster correctly (I had a similar "withholding" defense system against my manipulative mother, and still mourn never having been able to confide in her), I think she means that she's simply telling her mother about her life now, rather than keeping silent like she used to. Then her mother badgers her to tell more, and if her daughter doesn't, she escalates until it reaches hysterics. Mine would do the same... think "devouring mother", you can't just share anecdotes with them. "Anecdotes" are not a concept that they comprehend. To them, "anecdote" means "my own CHILD does not TRUST ME and I must know EVERYTHING and if I don't hear it RIGHT NOW then I will be FURIOUS." But it's a trap, too, because of course, very often there just isn't that much more to a story you share. So they get furious because you're not sharing. (Yeah, it's confusing.) Or, when there is more, and you break down and share it out of a feeling that, hey, this is my mother after all, then that sort of mother may very well go ballistic anyway, or judge, shame, guilt trip, etc. It is very, very emotionally draining. Much easier to just say nothing. TL;DR, the poster is saying that she's trying to strike a balance, one usually found organically in healthy relationships, but that's a bit like trying to hand raw meat to a famished lion that's not chained to anything when dealing with a devouring mother. No matter what you do and how clear you are about it, your arm's probably going to be bitten off. Or you'll be eaten entirely.
To the poster: as you can see, I grew up with a similar mother. The best advice I can give you is what others have said too: stick to your boundaries, firmly. Walk out if/when her badgering gets out of proportion. Have you spoken with a therapist about these issues? That could help too, if you're able to afford it.
posted by fraula at 5:56 AM on July 17, 2010
To the poster: as you can see, I grew up with a similar mother. The best advice I can give you is what others have said too: stick to your boundaries, firmly. Walk out if/when her badgering gets out of proportion. Have you spoken with a therapist about these issues? That could help too, if you're able to afford it.
posted by fraula at 5:56 AM on July 17, 2010
Look, establishing boundaries isn't as easy and immediate as putting up say, a stockade fence. It's more of a brick wall with windows and doors; some windows remain open, some closed, doors can lock and unlock.
That being said, your mother doesn't have to buy into the boundaries you set, and until she does (never?) she will bang on the doors and holler thru the windows. You have to put on your metaphorical earphones and continue mortaring the wall and repairing broken windows.
It took almost 30 years for you to get to where you are, so give yourself -- and her -- the gift of time for change.
posted by kidelo at 5:59 AM on July 17, 2010
That being said, your mother doesn't have to buy into the boundaries you set, and until she does (never?) she will bang on the doors and holler thru the windows. You have to put on your metaphorical earphones and continue mortaring the wall and repairing broken windows.
It took almost 30 years for you to get to where you are, so give yourself -- and her -- the gift of time for change.
posted by kidelo at 5:59 AM on July 17, 2010
I so get this. My mom has similar issues. It took years of not really knowing what I was doing - but doing it anyway - to change the whole thing around. And it made me feel incredibly guilty, just as you said.
But I never wavered because I knew her behavior was NOT okay. This, too took years for me to identify (I thought there was something wrong with me). So you've very thoughtfuly come to a reasonable conclusion and are trying to manage through it without feeling awful.
My advice is to address your guilt.
Guilt is just a well ingrained consequence to the things your mother says. Drop it. The bottom line is that it's useless in this instance. Once you really recognize that, this won't be such a big deal. One way to address this guilt it is to realize that her responses are very likely designed to make you feel guilty - not her actually being "hurt" etc.
posted by marimeko at 6:07 AM on July 17, 2010
But I never wavered because I knew her behavior was NOT okay. This, too took years for me to identify (I thought there was something wrong with me). So you've very thoughtfuly come to a reasonable conclusion and are trying to manage through it without feeling awful.
My advice is to address your guilt.
Guilt is just a well ingrained consequence to the things your mother says. Drop it. The bottom line is that it's useless in this instance. Once you really recognize that, this won't be such a big deal. One way to address this guilt it is to realize that her responses are very likely designed to make you feel guilty - not her actually being "hurt" etc.
posted by marimeko at 6:07 AM on July 17, 2010
What is the benefit to you in sharing these details about your life with your mother? Because my mother is similar to yours and I cannot imagine what good it would bring me if I shared things with her. She is my mother, not my confidant, and there is nothing wrong at all in choosing to keep the intimate details of your life private from her.
posted by crankylex at 6:19 AM on July 17, 2010
posted by crankylex at 6:19 AM on July 17, 2010
My solution to dealing with my mother's lack of boundaries for most of my life has been to simply not tell her things that were important: if she doesn't know about it then she can't passive-aggressively badger me into telling her more than I want to. But that has always felt like a sort of rotten and childish strategy.
It is not. It is in fact a healthy boundary itself. You are an adult, you are entitled to privacy, and you do not need to tell any other adult including your mother about your dating life, your pay raises, or your credit card debt unless you want to.
Most of us go through very secretive phases as teenagers as we're trying to make the break for independence, and then come back to re-establish rapport as adults. Sometimes that's delayed, or sometimes you need a second break to get your parent to accept you as an adult on the new terms. Either way that sounds like where you are now.
While I do not suggest screaming "It's none of your BEESWAX!" at your mother, I do suggest you develop some more adult deflecting phrases and skills (sorry about the code at the top of that post there.) While it may seems weird to manage your mother like a child right now, you need to keep a firm grip on the fact that you are the adult with a right not to be infantilized. Like any other adult, she is responsible for her own feelings, and will get over them.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:30 AM on July 17, 2010
It is not. It is in fact a healthy boundary itself. You are an adult, you are entitled to privacy, and you do not need to tell any other adult including your mother about your dating life, your pay raises, or your credit card debt unless you want to.
Most of us go through very secretive phases as teenagers as we're trying to make the break for independence, and then come back to re-establish rapport as adults. Sometimes that's delayed, or sometimes you need a second break to get your parent to accept you as an adult on the new terms. Either way that sounds like where you are now.
While I do not suggest screaming "It's none of your BEESWAX!" at your mother, I do suggest you develop some more adult deflecting phrases and skills (sorry about the code at the top of that post there.) While it may seems weird to manage your mother like a child right now, you need to keep a firm grip on the fact that you are the adult with a right not to be infantilized. Like any other adult, she is responsible for her own feelings, and will get over them.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:30 AM on July 17, 2010
Thanks, all, for your thoughts. Sorry if this was a little vague. It's still a little jumbled in my head. Kind of like DarlingBri and others have said, I'm trying to figure out how to have a convivial adult relationship with my mom where I can share some things with her but still control how much I share with her.
Up until recently, my two options were to never tell her about something (e.g. a problem with a friend or a boyfriend, or a worry about the future) or to tell her more than I wanted. And I've realized that part of controlling what I share is using my words to say, "Sorry, I don't want to talk about that right now" or similar. That's what I meant by using my words [to draw boundaries], instead of [drawing boundaries by] just omitting information. Don't know if that makes any more sense. Again, sorry this is so jumbled.
posted by colfax at 7:36 AM on July 17, 2010
Up until recently, my two options were to never tell her about something (e.g. a problem with a friend or a boyfriend, or a worry about the future) or to tell her more than I wanted. And I've realized that part of controlling what I share is using my words to say, "Sorry, I don't want to talk about that right now" or similar. That's what I meant by using my words [to draw boundaries], instead of [drawing boundaries by] just omitting information. Don't know if that makes any more sense. Again, sorry this is so jumbled.
posted by colfax at 7:36 AM on July 17, 2010
Part of it may be learning what you can and cannot tell her because while all mothers are different, at the end of the day she's still your mother and will still react in a way that's unique to your relationship with her.
A conversation between friends:
You: And my job sucks and Derek is being a dick.
Me: Dude I feel your pain. Drinks Thursday?
A conversation between you and your mum:
You: And my job sucks and Derek is being a dick.
Mom: What do you mean being a dick? Being a dick how? He's not cheating on you / drinking / hitting you is he?!?!?
A conversation between me and my mum:
Me: And my job sucks and Derek is being a dick.
Mom: Have a bath and a nice cup of tea, honey. You'll feel better.
In many ways my relationship with my mother is the opposite of yours. My mother wouldn't dream of prying and has always been a hands-off mother. My boyfriend could very well be hitting me and my mum would never ask. I'd have to tell her, explicitly, and explicitly tell her I wanted her help and support.
Does this mean my mother is a bad mother? No. But it does mean I'm an idiot if I keep going to the same person to fill a need they have not historically been able to fill. If your mother is always going to respond by hitting the panic and interrogation button, then she may not be someone you can confide in. At which point this becomes your problem and not hers; you find safe territory you can cover with your mum and find other sources of support that actually fill your needs.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:20 AM on July 17, 2010
A conversation between friends:
You: And my job sucks and Derek is being a dick.
Me: Dude I feel your pain. Drinks Thursday?
A conversation between you and your mum:
You: And my job sucks and Derek is being a dick.
Mom: What do you mean being a dick? Being a dick how? He's not cheating on you / drinking / hitting you is he?!?!?
A conversation between me and my mum:
Me: And my job sucks and Derek is being a dick.
Mom: Have a bath and a nice cup of tea, honey. You'll feel better.
In many ways my relationship with my mother is the opposite of yours. My mother wouldn't dream of prying and has always been a hands-off mother. My boyfriend could very well be hitting me and my mum would never ask. I'd have to tell her, explicitly, and explicitly tell her I wanted her help and support.
Does this mean my mother is a bad mother? No. But it does mean I'm an idiot if I keep going to the same person to fill a need they have not historically been able to fill. If your mother is always going to respond by hitting the panic and interrogation button, then she may not be someone you can confide in. At which point this becomes your problem and not hers; you find safe territory you can cover with your mum and find other sources of support that actually fill your needs.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:20 AM on July 17, 2010
I agree with DarlingBri. I just don't tell my mother anything that I don't want 100 follow-up questions or "helpful emails" on. She doesn't know any other way of interacting, and she thinks she's being a good mom by smothering me with information. I can continue being annoyed or I can just not give her the opportunity to do that. The latter is MUCH easier.
posted by desjardins at 9:00 AM on July 17, 2010
posted by desjardins at 9:00 AM on July 17, 2010
I have rules that I have explicitly established with my mother. She has body image issues and constantly projects them onto me. Asking about my eating habits, telling me I should lose weight, commenting on my clothing being too tight, etc. I am able to recognize its in good intentions (she's honestly trying to help) but it was too damaging to my self esteem to allow it to continue.
I sat down with her and explained that while I knew she wasn't trying to hurt me, her comments were not constructive and therefore in the future those topics (my weight, what I eat, my general appearance) are off limits. I don't respond to criticism OR compliments. I just either nod and say nothing or if she seems inclined to carry on say, "remember the rules?"
For the most part she has been okay with it, but it requires frequent reminding on my part. She can't seem to help it, which makes sense since her own life revolves around such issues. But with patience and consistency we have made it work for years.
I would imagine the same principles would work for you. If a topic is off limits, I would avoid your bringing it up, and respond proactively when she does. Always. Inconsistency leads to further bad behavior since she'd never know when it could fly and when it couldn't. Similarly, remain calm. Raised voices start to feel like a personal attack. Expect resistance initially ( aka it will get worse before it gets better) and possibly "you're hurting my feelings" comments. But I've found that the setting of explicit verbal boundaries has helped where implicit boundaries weren't and resulted in a better relationship with her in the long run.
posted by gilsonal at 9:47 AM on July 17, 2010
I sat down with her and explained that while I knew she wasn't trying to hurt me, her comments were not constructive and therefore in the future those topics (my weight, what I eat, my general appearance) are off limits. I don't respond to criticism OR compliments. I just either nod and say nothing or if she seems inclined to carry on say, "remember the rules?"
For the most part she has been okay with it, but it requires frequent reminding on my part. She can't seem to help it, which makes sense since her own life revolves around such issues. But with patience and consistency we have made it work for years.
I would imagine the same principles would work for you. If a topic is off limits, I would avoid your bringing it up, and respond proactively when she does. Always. Inconsistency leads to further bad behavior since she'd never know when it could fly and when it couldn't. Similarly, remain calm. Raised voices start to feel like a personal attack. Expect resistance initially ( aka it will get worse before it gets better) and possibly "you're hurting my feelings" comments. But I've found that the setting of explicit verbal boundaries has helped where implicit boundaries weren't and resulted in a better relationship with her in the long run.
posted by gilsonal at 9:47 AM on July 17, 2010
You should definitely read The Dance of Intimacy by Harriet Lerner. (Her other books ~ of Anger, ~ of Communications might also be good.) They have extensive discussions of what happens when one person tries to set limits.
posted by salvia at 10:06 AM on July 17, 2010
posted by salvia at 10:06 AM on July 17, 2010
Thanks, everyone. All of your thoughts have been very helpful. I appreciate your taking the time to answer my sort of jumbled question.
posted by colfax at 6:51 AM on July 18, 2010
posted by colfax at 6:51 AM on July 18, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by saraindc at 1:29 AM on July 17, 2010