Not so much born to run.
July 15, 2010 2:20 PM Subscribe
'Old-fashioned' running vs pose running: which one will cause less injury during training for an upcoming race in approximately 2 months? Sorry for length.
(Short description: female, twenties, decently fit.)
To clarify: I've been running the 'old-fashioned' (heavy heel-strike, heel-to-toe gait motion) way for a long time, and wearing extremely cushy shoes to compensate for the heel-strike. I've gotten decent times running this way, but have gotten terrible, terrible shin splints that required six months of physiotherapy and no running whatsoever.
Recently the shin splints have been starting to quietly protest again, so a trainer suggested Pose and lighter, less-cushioned shoes, which - amazingly, nothing hurts, so you know: jackpot! The only downside is that my calves are quite sore and so are the wee tendons around and on top of my foot, and I feel that my speed's dropped a little bit with maintaining the new form. The thing is, I have a mandatory race coming up in about 2 months, and for reasons not worth going into at this point, I have to run a competitive pace - say, 8 to 8.5 miles/hr, which I can do with my (shin-killing) heel-strike, and I've also heard that transitioning to Pose and maintaining speed takes a long time to do it properly without injuring yourself.
So! For any Pose runners out there, what are the risks of transitioning to Pose too quickly? Are the injuries potentially worse than a shin splint-induced stress fracture? How long did it take you to adjust to Pose? Some sort of pain's kind of inevitable at this point, but all I care about is this race and am really just looking to go with the lesser evil here. YANMD, YANMPhysiotherapist, etc, and I cannot postpone the race, as much as I would like to. I have also seen podiatrists and used orthotics, neither of which have helped (and I think the orthotics made things worse).
(Short description: female, twenties, decently fit.)
To clarify: I've been running the 'old-fashioned' (heavy heel-strike, heel-to-toe gait motion) way for a long time, and wearing extremely cushy shoes to compensate for the heel-strike. I've gotten decent times running this way, but have gotten terrible, terrible shin splints that required six months of physiotherapy and no running whatsoever.
Recently the shin splints have been starting to quietly protest again, so a trainer suggested Pose and lighter, less-cushioned shoes, which - amazingly, nothing hurts, so you know: jackpot! The only downside is that my calves are quite sore and so are the wee tendons around and on top of my foot, and I feel that my speed's dropped a little bit with maintaining the new form. The thing is, I have a mandatory race coming up in about 2 months, and for reasons not worth going into at this point, I have to run a competitive pace - say, 8 to 8.5 miles/hr, which I can do with my (shin-killing) heel-strike, and I've also heard that transitioning to Pose and maintaining speed takes a long time to do it properly without injuring yourself.
So! For any Pose runners out there, what are the risks of transitioning to Pose too quickly? Are the injuries potentially worse than a shin splint-induced stress fracture? How long did it take you to adjust to Pose? Some sort of pain's kind of inevitable at this point, but all I care about is this race and am really just looking to go with the lesser evil here. YANMD, YANMPhysiotherapist, etc, and I cannot postpone the race, as much as I would like to. I have also seen podiatrists and used orthotics, neither of which have helped (and I think the orthotics made things worse).
Question: what would happen if you raced well with your old heel-strike way and injured yourself as significantly as the worst of before (six months of physiotherapy and no running whatsoever) or worse? I knew a former runner turned high school cross-country coach who won a race by pushing herself to pretty much ruin her chance of ever racing again. To me, not a competitive racer, this sounds like a really short-term gain for an extremely long-term loss. It doesn't sound like returning to your old way would do as much damage, but it could keep you from racing for a while.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
(Also, think of it as you were born to run a different way, not that you weren't born to run.)
posted by filthy light thief at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2010
posted by filthy light thief at 2:47 PM on July 15, 2010
Best answer: I was unaware of Pose running, but I run barefoot and in minimal shoes, and the form appears similar. I've been very careful to increase distance and pace incrementally, and am almost obsessive about proper form. Still, I've had a couple setbacks in which over-training left my legs feeling stressed beyond what I would normally expect. Not just the normal tightness in the calves and ankle muscles, but deep pain that kept me from running for a week or so. After several months of careful work, my times are approaching what I was capable of before I began experimenting with running unshod. Approaching... but not there yet. I dropped my speed way, way down to focus on form for weeks, and my short runs are still 15-20% slower than before. I also feel that when I keep a fast pace, I'm expending more energy in this style.
Switching forms during a race may be a bad idea if you're wearing minimal shoes; I think the lack of cushion could really aggravate your old injuries. I blame poor form and allowing a measure of heel strike to creep into my stride for most of the pain I experienced along the way.
Not so much advice as data point.
posted by itstheclamsname at 3:06 PM on July 15, 2010
Switching forms during a race may be a bad idea if you're wearing minimal shoes; I think the lack of cushion could really aggravate your old injuries. I blame poor form and allowing a measure of heel strike to creep into my stride for most of the pain I experienced along the way.
Not so much advice as data point.
posted by itstheclamsname at 3:06 PM on July 15, 2010
Only anecdote here . . . I read Born to Run, bought some Nike Frees, changed my landing to forefoot, and am now faster, lighter, and pain free. I just ran a half marathon a few weeks ago, and again felt only a little stiffness afterward.
By pain free I mean, nada, no more sore knees, IT band issues, plantar fascitis, shin splints . . . all of which I enjoyed with my orthotics, cushy shoes designed to correct pronation, and regular stretching.
So now I'm thinking Vibrams lie in my future.
Just another data point.
posted by bearwife at 3:38 PM on July 15, 2010
By pain free I mean, nada, no more sore knees, IT band issues, plantar fascitis, shin splints . . . all of which I enjoyed with my orthotics, cushy shoes designed to correct pronation, and regular stretching.
So now I'm thinking Vibrams lie in my future.
Just another data point.
posted by bearwife at 3:38 PM on July 15, 2010
Yeah, I think this is just your calf muscles building up. If it was me, I would adjust my training regimen temporarily into something more like a weight trainer would. Work one day pretty hard, then rest for a few.
Your new way of running is the correct way- if you look at all the other mammals, their "heel" never even touches the ground. But it requires a lot more muscle strength in the calf, which is acting almost like a spring. Which is good for your joints, because that means they aren't bearing the weight. But until the muscle develops and the tendons get used to the new motion, you are going to have that soreness.
posted by gjc at 4:21 PM on July 15, 2010
Your new way of running is the correct way- if you look at all the other mammals, their "heel" never even touches the ground. But it requires a lot more muscle strength in the calf, which is acting almost like a spring. Which is good for your joints, because that means they aren't bearing the weight. But until the muscle develops and the tendons get used to the new motion, you are going to have that soreness.
posted by gjc at 4:21 PM on July 15, 2010
Best answer: I have to run a competitive pace
This here's your problem, or rather the thinking behind statements like this. Over-training and over-exertion - with any running style - will lead to injuries, time off, and disappointment.
Your previous experience should be a lesson to you about what happens when you push too hard, too fast. Pose running is will not fix this - there is no magical running style that prevents injuries and allows us to go as fast as we want - as fast as we are aerobically capable of - as long as we want.
I switched to pose myself, and - due to overtraining - had to take nearly six months off with burstitis in my forefoot. I still strike forefoot now, but I'm a lot more careful, and I run in the shoes that support me (no more flats) and were recommended by my podiatrist (I trust your average trainer about as far as I can throw them. They are not medical professionals!).
You can enjoy running, and running far and long and fast, if you build sustainably, slowly, and back off when trouble appears on the horizon. Don't put your short-term results at a premium to your long term fitness and happiness, please don't.
posted by smoke at 4:43 PM on July 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
This here's your problem, or rather the thinking behind statements like this. Over-training and over-exertion - with any running style - will lead to injuries, time off, and disappointment.
Your previous experience should be a lesson to you about what happens when you push too hard, too fast. Pose running is will not fix this - there is no magical running style that prevents injuries and allows us to go as fast as we want - as fast as we are aerobically capable of - as long as we want.
I switched to pose myself, and - due to overtraining - had to take nearly six months off with burstitis in my forefoot. I still strike forefoot now, but I'm a lot more careful, and I run in the shoes that support me (no more flats) and were recommended by my podiatrist (I trust your average trainer about as far as I can throw them. They are not medical professionals!).
You can enjoy running, and running far and long and fast, if you build sustainably, slowly, and back off when trouble appears on the horizon. Don't put your short-term results at a premium to your long term fitness and happiness, please don't.
posted by smoke at 4:43 PM on July 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Hm. I'm way faster doing the pose method, but I was "not fast" (to put it mildly) before. I'll say this, though - oh Hell yes, your calves will get sore at first. Take it easy and build up. My first attempt was a 5k in Chuck Taylors. Mistake. By the time my calves felt a bit sore I was almost done but I could barely walk for a week afterwards. That should stop happening within a few weeks, at least, it did for me, and I haven't had shin pain at all this way.
posted by ctmf at 4:44 PM on July 15, 2010
posted by ctmf at 4:44 PM on July 15, 2010
Response by poster: supercapitalist: I've tried that - the problem with me is that the shoes I wear for heel-striking are extremely cushioned and very stiff, so I can't flex the foot properly to do Pose, and the shoes I'm using for Pose are pretty minimalist, so heel-striking in those is just... gah.
filthy light thief: If I reinjured myself, I would probably crawl into a dark corner with both hands cradling a very large Scotch bottle and cry snotty, snotty tears. But honestly - if I reinjured myself (badly enough to warrant medical intervention), it would probably kill my chances at my chosen career, or at least put them on the backburner for at least a couple of years.
Pose feels right to me - the no pain-thing kind of endears me to it right there - but will/can it cause any sort of injury that's as bad as a stress fracture? Like a torn Achilles or something if I try and take it too fast? I honestly do not care if my calves hurt like the dickens, so long as it's not something that could be permanently debilitating.
posted by zennish at 4:51 PM on July 15, 2010
filthy light thief: If I reinjured myself, I would probably crawl into a dark corner with both hands cradling a very large Scotch bottle and cry snotty, snotty tears. But honestly - if I reinjured myself (badly enough to warrant medical intervention), it would probably kill my chances at my chosen career, or at least put them on the backburner for at least a couple of years.
Pose feels right to me - the no pain-thing kind of endears me to it right there - but will/can it cause any sort of injury that's as bad as a stress fracture? Like a torn Achilles or something if I try and take it too fast? I honestly do not care if my calves hurt like the dickens, so long as it's not something that could be permanently debilitating.
posted by zennish at 4:51 PM on July 15, 2010
Best answer: Pose running is not magical and you can very much cause stress fractures or any other chronic injury (eg). There are studies showing that the incidence of these is lower than in 'normal' running, and reasonably theories as to why it might be so, but I've never seen convincing data, and 'less likely' is still going to screw you if you're that 1 in 100.
Your situation sounds like you are in the military or something similar. I imagine that this is a relatively common scenario there (must pass x fitness test on y date) so there's probably a fair amount of discussion on it somewhere - a military forum?
posted by jacalata at 5:54 PM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your situation sounds like you are in the military or something similar. I imagine that this is a relatively common scenario there (must pass x fitness test on y date) so there's probably a fair amount of discussion on it somewhere - a military forum?
posted by jacalata at 5:54 PM on July 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm a lifetime runner, have gone through a POSE certification course, and have been running POSE style for about two years. With POSE, you are swapping one set of stresses for another (calf and Achilles). I've watched maybe two dozen people over that time attempt to switch to POSE. While there have been plenty of blisters (from Vibram five fingers) and sore calves, I haven't seen any serious injuries like a ruptured Achilles or something. You didn't mention the distance of your mandatory race, but since you did specify about a 7 minute/mile pace, I'm going to assume something shortish like a 5K or 10K. Based on those assumptions, I think you could get away with it (training/running POSE in your race). POSE or not, if the distance is 10K or shorter, and the goal is to stay injury free for two months and then run a fast race, i would also recommend that you keep your training volume on the low side and spend some of your time on structured training, like running intervals at a track. Finally, if you are experiencing a lot of soreness after a POSE run, you can always switch back to your heavy cushioned trainers for the next run. Good luck with the race!
posted by kovacs at 5:57 PM on July 15, 2010
posted by kovacs at 5:57 PM on July 15, 2010
I know this is beginner level to question but I just want make sure you aren't slamming your foot down with each step. If you're not sure maybe next time you're running concentrate on lifting your foot the minimal amount and setting it down with just the right amount of pressure -- a "graceful" run.
I've run with people before that have run for years and they put a new meaning on "pounding the pavement."
I'm switching to a pose type running style right now to try to help with some severe ITBS that I have pop up on longer distances. I haven't found a difference in time really. I squat, deadlift, and hill sprint every week so my legs really haven't felt like they've needed to adjust too much.
If you can, I'd recommend rest days between your training and on the rest days walking for an hour but not doing much of anything else lower body wise. Add in some hill running to your training too. That forces you to do a pose type style and will make you stronger without having to strain over long distances.
posted by zephyr_words at 6:35 PM on July 15, 2010
I've run with people before that have run for years and they put a new meaning on "pounding the pavement."
I'm switching to a pose type running style right now to try to help with some severe ITBS that I have pop up on longer distances. I haven't found a difference in time really. I squat, deadlift, and hill sprint every week so my legs really haven't felt like they've needed to adjust too much.
If you can, I'd recommend rest days between your training and on the rest days walking for an hour but not doing much of anything else lower body wise. Add in some hill running to your training too. That forces you to do a pose type style and will make you stronger without having to strain over long distances.
posted by zephyr_words at 6:35 PM on July 15, 2010
Response by poster: smoke and jacalata: Thank you for your candor - and that link is very interesting reading, thank you! Re. military forums: upon preliminary googling, it doesn't look like there's much interest in Pose running among them, though I could be mistaken.
Lots of stuff to think about, much appreciated. and kovacs, thank you. Knock on wood and all that.
posted by zennish at 9:05 AM on July 16, 2010
Lots of stuff to think about, much appreciated. and kovacs, thank you. Knock on wood and all that.
posted by zennish at 9:05 AM on July 16, 2010
One thing I found enormously helpful when switching from flat-footed heel-striker to gazelle-like forefoot-striker was keeping my cadence (i.e. the rate at which your feet strike the ground) way higher than I was previously used to.
I actually spent weeks running to this song on repeat, but if you're not into hip-hop then following the same strategy could prove tortuous...
posted by bsaunders at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2010
I actually spent weeks running to this song on repeat, but if you're not into hip-hop then following the same strategy could prove tortuous...
posted by bsaunders at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by supercapitalist at 2:34 PM on July 15, 2010