Full deluxe duplex
July 15, 2010 6:30 AM Subscribe
A computer recording question. What will I need to turn a modern desktop PC into a multitrack studio?
I'm looking at buying a new desktop, but everything seems to come with onboard sound (or in some cases not even specifying a soundcard at all). My old computer (2004) was a Dell Dimension 8300. I had to buy a Soundblaster Audigy XS2 in order to do what I understand is 'full-duplex recording' - recording and listening at the same time. After a few years latency problems crept in and were unresolvable, so I haven't really dabbled at all in the meantime.
My question is this; straight out the box, will a desktop like a Dell XPS have this capability? There seems to be something called 'THX TruStudio PC' included with these systems. Is that a soundcard? I'm assuming that given six years have passed my old Audigy XS won't play nicely with a new Windows 7 box, so if a new external USB soundcard is required, what does anyone recommend. I like the look of both the Steinberg CI or the Alesis IO, but are these even soundcards? I am completely confused by the whole process, but any way forwards that cuts down on wire spaghetti (and gives me a compact unit I can also use with my laptop) would be brilliant. Thank you in advance.
I'm looking at buying a new desktop, but everything seems to come with onboard sound (or in some cases not even specifying a soundcard at all). My old computer (2004) was a Dell Dimension 8300. I had to buy a Soundblaster Audigy XS2 in order to do what I understand is 'full-duplex recording' - recording and listening at the same time. After a few years latency problems crept in and were unresolvable, so I haven't really dabbled at all in the meantime.
My question is this; straight out the box, will a desktop like a Dell XPS have this capability? There seems to be something called 'THX TruStudio PC' included with these systems. Is that a soundcard? I'm assuming that given six years have passed my old Audigy XS won't play nicely with a new Windows 7 box, so if a new external USB soundcard is required, what does anyone recommend. I like the look of both the Steinberg CI or the Alesis IO, but are these even soundcards? I am completely confused by the whole process, but any way forwards that cuts down on wire spaghetti (and gives me a compact unit I can also use with my laptop) would be brilliant. Thank you in advance.
You really just need an audio interface. Something like this, or this. They connect via Firewire or USB. You can think of them as soundcards if you like. They allow you to plug in microphones, studio monitors, mixers, outboard gear, etc.
Once you get an interface, then you need Digital Audio Workstation software like ProTools, Logic, Sonar, Cubase, Reason, Live, etc.
If you are going to get serious about a home studio, get the fastest computer you can afford.
posted by jasondigitized at 7:14 AM on July 15, 2010
Once you get an interface, then you need Digital Audio Workstation software like ProTools, Logic, Sonar, Cubase, Reason, Live, etc.
If you are going to get serious about a home studio, get the fastest computer you can afford.
posted by jasondigitized at 7:14 AM on July 15, 2010
The MOTU Ultralite that jasondigitized linked to is amazing. Just get that, and Ableton Live, and you're there.
posted by Jairus at 7:17 AM on July 15, 2010
posted by Jairus at 7:17 AM on July 15, 2010
In the setup in my lab at school, we need two hard drives (C and D) in order to use an Mbox and ProTools. I don't know if this is a requirement of the box or the software or the fact that it's a networked situation, but it's something to check into.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:39 AM on July 15, 2010
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:39 AM on July 15, 2010
Before buying a bunch of stuff, you could just get a new desktop, download a trial of REAPER (which is cheap and might be all the recording software you need) and try it out with the Audigy, assuming it has Win 7 drivers.
Otherwise despite "sound card" not being the preferred nomenclature these days, M-Audio makes the Delta and Audiophile PCI cards, which are good and less expensive than equivalently-specced FW/USB interfaces. I have a Delta 44 in my desktop and it works great, though you obviously lose the portabilty.
posted by substars at 8:00 AM on July 15, 2010
Otherwise despite "sound card" not being the preferred nomenclature these days, M-Audio makes the Delta and Audiophile PCI cards, which are good and less expensive than equivalently-specced FW/USB interfaces. I have a Delta 44 in my desktop and it works great, though you obviously lose the portabilty.
posted by substars at 8:00 AM on July 15, 2010
Desktops these days mostly seem to have integrated "soundcards" or "audio interfaces" on the motherboard. These are usually geared at the Home Video market and focus more on having 5.1 / surround sound capabiility.
They are really crap for Digital Audio use. bad signal to noise on recording. and no 'low latency' drivers.
but its no problem - these days there are hundreds of different USB2 / Fireware / PCI options that will give you something useable for basic recording / playback.
When you say: "multitrack studio" - what exactly do you mean? personally I would expect a "multitrack studio" to have at least 8in x 8out simultaneous Record / Playback capabilties - otherwise its not 'multitrack'.
If you just want to mess around with Software Synths and recording a few things seperately then you can get buy with a basic sheap USB2 2x2 Audio Interface .
posted by mary8nne at 8:08 AM on July 15, 2010
They are really crap for Digital Audio use. bad signal to noise on recording. and no 'low latency' drivers.
but its no problem - these days there are hundreds of different USB2 / Fireware / PCI options that will give you something useable for basic recording / playback.
When you say: "multitrack studio" - what exactly do you mean? personally I would expect a "multitrack studio" to have at least 8in x 8out simultaneous Record / Playback capabilties - otherwise its not 'multitrack'.
If you just want to mess around with Software Synths and recording a few things seperately then you can get buy with a basic sheap USB2 2x2 Audio Interface .
posted by mary8nne at 8:08 AM on July 15, 2010
Seconding substars' REAPER recommendation. To get a feel for whether you like recording, just get a cheap USB mic, and record 1 track at a time through your USB port, mix it down in REAPER. If you like it, invest in a USB interface, and some more "professional" mics to plug in to it.
Also, do a search in Metafilter Music. They have quite a few threads about beginning recording.
Here are a few:
Help me record some music please
Got the Bug Again Finally
New to Home Recording
posted by baxter_ilion at 9:00 AM on July 15, 2010
Also, do a search in Metafilter Music. They have quite a few threads about beginning recording.
Here are a few:
Help me record some music please
Got the Bug Again Finally
New to Home Recording
posted by baxter_ilion at 9:00 AM on July 15, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for your answers and suggestions - all incredibly helpful. It seems that the Alesis and Steinberg units are probably all I need... to answer mary8nne's question, by 'multitrack' I mean the ability to layer up tracks in a program like Audacity, adding new ones while listening to the old ones together. If I'm using an audio interfaces with two inputs (like the Alesis or Steinberg), does that mean I can put down two independent tracks simultaneously (e.g. guitar and drums) so that each track can be independently manipulated?
posted by jonathanbell at 1:11 PM on July 15, 2010
posted by jonathanbell at 1:11 PM on July 15, 2010
You don't want to use Audacity, you want to use a sequencer like Protools, Cubase or Ableton.
I'd recommend running down to Guitar Center or the nearest Apple store, buying a cheapish (<>
Then what you do is in ableton preferences, you set the interface as your input and your out put.
The Ableton GUI is going to display a bunch of tracks with individual volume faders, etc. For each one you can select input and output channels on your interface. You can then record on as many of them as you want, and one output for each channel (or the cue or main output). You can also add VST's and FX to each channel live. You'll probably also want to purchase some kind of midi mixer to make things easier, but it's not necessary, you can always add FX after recording.
So what you can do is have the drummer record to a click track. Then have everyone else record just listening to drums, etc. And with Ableton, at least, it'[s pretty easy to adjust tempo, key, etc, as you go. If you recorded at 70bpm and decide that it sounds better at 90? Just up the bpm meter in Ableton and you're done. The singer was a semitone flat? Just pop the pitch up a semi-tone.
Memail me if you need help setting up Ableton after you get it, but at least do the tutorials first.
posted by empath at 2:54 PM on July 15, 2010
I'd recommend running down to Guitar Center or the nearest Apple store, buying a cheapish (<>
Then what you do is in ableton preferences, you set the interface as your input and your out put.
The Ableton GUI is going to display a bunch of tracks with individual volume faders, etc. For each one you can select input and output channels on your interface. You can then record on as many of them as you want, and one output for each channel (or the cue or main output). You can also add VST's and FX to each channel live. You'll probably also want to purchase some kind of midi mixer to make things easier, but it's not necessary, you can always add FX after recording.
So what you can do is have the drummer record to a click track. Then have everyone else record just listening to drums, etc. And with Ableton, at least, it'[s pretty easy to adjust tempo, key, etc, as you go. If you recorded at 70bpm and decide that it sounds better at 90? Just up the bpm meter in Ableton and you're done. The singer was a semitone flat? Just pop the pitch up a semi-tone.
Memail me if you need help setting up Ableton after you get it, but at least do the tutorials first.
posted by empath at 2:54 PM on July 15, 2010
I work in a place like guitar center (but in the UK) - I'd avoid the Alesis IOs as they aren't particularly good!
As mentioned above, on a PC avoid FireWire like the plague. Get yourself the Steinberg CI2 and you won't go far wrong.
Check and see if it comes with Cubase LE, which is better than audacity and handy for free. If not you might want to look at the Yamaha Audiogram 3 which definitely does and is a good solid box.
There's loads of choice but you shouldn't go far wrong with either of those.
Highly recommend ableton live as well. worth every penny.
posted by 6am at 3:44 PM on July 15, 2010
As mentioned above, on a PC avoid FireWire like the plague. Get yourself the Steinberg CI2 and you won't go far wrong.
Check and see if it comes with Cubase LE, which is better than audacity and handy for free. If not you might want to look at the Yamaha Audiogram 3 which definitely does and is a good solid box.
There's loads of choice but you shouldn't go far wrong with either of those.
Highly recommend ableton live as well. worth every penny.
posted by 6am at 3:44 PM on July 15, 2010
oh and in answer to the question, yes - all interfaces are full duplex these days and you can record as many separate inputs at once as you have.
steinberg ci2 and yamaha audiogram 3 have two inputs so let you record two separate things at once.
posted by 6am at 3:47 PM on July 15, 2010
steinberg ci2 and yamaha audiogram 3 have two inputs so let you record two separate things at once.
posted by 6am at 3:47 PM on July 15, 2010
if you need more inputs than two, MOTU just released a small interface called the Microbook (4 input) ....which looks very promising. sort of mid - pro quality, but less of it compared to their other boxes, so pretty cheap!
posted by 6am at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2010
posted by 6am at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2010
Very much a personal viewpoint here, but before you buy an expensive bajillion dollar sound card:
If you want to have fun and make some good demos all you need is cheap computer + Asio4all + Reaper.
Asio4all is a free sound driver that maximises the audio recording performance of even the cheapest windows pc or laptop.
(I get around 5ms latency on old dell laptops, and can record loads of paralell tracks. )
Budget latop audio tip - record your audio with your soundcard set to low latency,
then when mixing and adding all those cpu hungry fx, make the latency time higher again to avoid snap crackle and pop
I don't let myself read audio recording magazines.
They just make me want to buy more gear and "perfect the acoustic properties" of my home studio, and then I get too busy being a "prosumer" to make any music...
posted by driftingclouds at 7:06 PM on July 15, 2010
If you want to have fun and make some good demos all you need is cheap computer + Asio4all + Reaper.
Asio4all is a free sound driver that maximises the audio recording performance of even the cheapest windows pc or laptop.
(I get around 5ms latency on old dell laptops, and can record loads of paralell tracks. )
Budget latop audio tip - record your audio with your soundcard set to low latency,
then when mixing and adding all those cpu hungry fx, make the latency time higher again to avoid snap crackle and pop
I don't let myself read audio recording magazines.
They just make me want to buy more gear and "perfect the acoustic properties" of my home studio, and then I get too busy being a "prosumer" to make any music...
posted by driftingclouds at 7:06 PM on July 15, 2010
to answer your multitrack question; yes in a program like Reaper / Cubase / Logic etc you can record to multiple tracks simulatneously. So with a X input Audio Interface you can record X seperate things say guitar / vocals / drums / bass all at th same time - to different channels / tracks. so you can adjust the levels / EQ of each instrument seperately when you are mixing / layering them
posted by mary8nne at 7:52 AM on July 16, 2010
posted by mary8nne at 7:52 AM on July 16, 2010
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The M-Audio units are great because they sync right into Pro Tools (the industry standard software). I've worked with several different ones on occasion and I have many musician friends with them. They're pricier (the brand name and Pro Tools is part of that) but by all accounts it's worth it.
I also have a lot of familiarity with PreSonus products. My brother works with a FireStudio Project in his home recording studio in our garage. In fact just yesterday we used his system with full duplex as you describe. We also use one at school to do multi-track output from a computer for surround sound effects. Never had latency issues, even on old hardware. I should caution that my PreSonus + Windows experience has been entirely negative. It's nearly plug and play on Mac, but Windows is the completely opposite story (driver hell).
My brother and school also use FireWire as opposed to USB. If you can upgrade to a FireWire unit (and install FireWire on your computer, or have it installed), I'd recommend that option. I'm not actually sure if it makes a huge impact (people have been using USB interfaces for years with few complaints) but it makes me more comfortable anyway, especially when pumping multiple tracks in and out at the same time.
As for the computer itself, you just need to make sure it's a sufficiently powerful computer (CPU, memory, etc.) You don't need to buy anything other than this audio interface to make it work for what you need, just make sure the specs are high enough so it can handle processing. Most modern computers should be capable though - at school we use a first-gen moderately-spec'd Mac Mini and it has no problem. 2.2ghz+ Dual Core and 2GB+ RAM should be a good start.
Hope this helps!
posted by cvp at 7:05 AM on July 15, 2010