SATII or ACT?
July 9, 2010 6:49 AM   Subscribe

ACT or SATII?


My son, who's entering his senior year in high school, has already taken the SATI. To apply to certain colleges he needs either 2 SATII subject tests or the ACT.

A lot of people seem to take the ACT (in my day this test did not exist, or if it did, nobody I knew took it) instead of the SATII. I'm just wondering what might be the better choice. And -- does one study for the ACT?

If he did the SATII he'd take English but I'm not sure what else. History, maybe. He's going to be very busy with his regular subjects in the fall, and I'm not sure how much time there would be to study subjects he's already taken.

Any thoughts on SATII vs. ACT appreciated. Thank you.
posted by DMelanogaster to Education (25 answers total)
 
If he did well on the SAT would definitely advise trying the ACT. It has slightly different subjects than the SAT but still is a general test, i.e. you don't need knowledge in a specific subject area the way you would with an SATII.

From what I understand, the ACT was (at least originally) a regional thing, used more for midwestern schools. I'm not sure if that's the case anymore, but when I was applying to colleges a few years ago, many schools let me submit the SAT or the ACT (or both). I actually did better on the ACT than the SAT as well, so that might be another reason your son would want to try it.

I took the SAT, the ACT and three SATII's (some of my schools wanted EVERY test in existence) and also had the "which SATII test do I take" problem and ended up having to study a lot of physics on my own. If your son is pretty motivated about this on his own, he can learn enough from those subject test study books to get a good score. But, if he's not as enthused, I would actually advise against SATII's. Because they're so specific, most people who take a particular subject test are very good at that subject, and high scores are extremely common, so colleges are used to seeing a lot of 750+ scores on a subject test -- it can almost work against you (depending on a lot of factors, including the caliber of the school) to get an okay-but-not-outstanding score on an SAT II.
posted by mokudekiru at 7:00 AM on July 9, 2010


Having an ACT score on-record can be a handy thing - many schools only accept an ACT score as the primary test. This is largely geographical - the coasts seem to like the SAT, while the interior of the US seems to like the ACT. Also, anecdotally, I found the ACT significantly easier than the SAT - it's a different format, and can be kinder to some test-takers. My higher ACT score was a pretty big help to my admissions process, I imagine.

I did my testing 6-7 years ago, YMMV, IANACAC (I am not a college admissions counselor).
posted by Rallon at 7:02 AM on July 9, 2010


ACT is a really easy test - unless they've changed the scoring system, you are not penalized for wrong answers, so you can guess on any you don't know.
posted by Think_Long at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2010


I don't know anything about the SAT II so I can't say anything about the comparison between the SAT II and ACT, but as far as this:

does one study for the ACT?

Yes! You can approach it pretty similarly to the SAT, though the content is somewhat different. There are 4 sections: math, science, reading comprehension, and English usage/grammar. Each of these has a specific format that you'll want to be familiar with before taking the test. And, of course, he'll need to brush up on math, scientific reasoning, grammar, etc. There's also a weird "writing" component that I don't remember from when I took the test, but you can read about it on Wikipedia.

As mokudekiru says, the ACT is pretty similar to the SAT. I actually found the ACT easier, but that depends on the individual student's strengths and weaknesses. For instance, I found scientific reasoning very challenging (science was my weakest subject in school), while I found the grammar stuff a breeze since I'm good at text editing. So I wasn't too surprised when I got a perfect score on usage but a middling score on science (and, as I predicted, my scores on the other two sections were in between the grammar and science scores). Other people, I'm sure, are the opposite. You and your son would be a better judge than us at how he's likely to do on these different sections.

As Rallon says, the use of the ACT is geographical. The fact that you had never heard of it before doesn't mean that it only recently came into existence; I still meet people who are no older than I am and have never heard of the ACT. See, I went to high school in Wisconsin, and the ACT seems to be mostly a Midwestern (or at least non-coastal) thing. You can probably quickly find out more details about this with a quick Google search.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:12 AM on July 9, 2010


I'm a few years out from this process, but I would recommend taking a pair of SATII's over the ACT. The ACT is (nominally) measuring the same things, so having a good score on the SAT and the ACT doesn't really add any depth to your son's application. Having SATII's on record shows depth, having the ACT on record just shows reliability on a sort of general academic achievement axis.

The SATII's do require a bit of focus, though. If he looks over the practice exam and doesn't feel comfortable with the material, it might be too much of a risk. They tend to be pretty content-heavy, and depending on your HS curriculum you might not have the content background to do well on them. He'll be able to tell from the practice exams pretty quickly if it's the kind of test he can do well on. If he doesn't think he can do well without a lot of practice/study, then you can do the ACT. But I think a good SAT + 2 decent SAT IIs is a better package than a good SAT and a good ACT.
posted by heresiarch at 7:20 AM on July 9, 2010


ACT is a really easy test - unless they've changed the scoring system, you are not penalized for wrong answers, so you can guess on any you don't know.

That's correct about the lack of a wrong-answer penalty, but I wouldn't call the whole test "really easy." Some people, for instance, will find the algebra, geometry, and trigonometry easy, while others will struggle with it. That will depend on what level of math classes your son has taken and how well he does in them, plus how well he remembers the material (or can learn this stuff out of the blue for the test). Same with every section. Are you good at telling the difference between it's/its, your/you're, their/they're/there? I'm good at this kind of thing, and maybe you're good at it and would consider it "really easy," but many people find it difficult -- they'll probably find the English usage section challenging.

Every multiple-choice test I've taken in my life has had no penalty for wrong answers, including lots of tests in college and law school, the SAT, the LSAT, and the New York bar exam. These were hardly all easy!
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:20 AM on July 9, 2010


I agree with heresiarch for the most part. In large part, it depends on your son. If he's extremely academically talented in at least two subjects (or if he's very good at writing a coherent and grammatically-correct essay on the fly and is also strong in at least one other subject), the SAT II is probably your best bet. (I'm not sure how much it matters now that the SAT I has a writing component, but when I was applying to colleges 10 years ago, most of my schools wanted to see a good score on the writing SAT II.) So if his only strong subject is English but he's really good at it, he could take the Writing and the Literature SAT II's; if he is strong in another subject, it would probably be a little bit better to have (Writing and [language/history/science/etc.]) or (Literature and [language/history/science/etc.]) to show his breadth of knowledge.

But if he's the kind of student who is a hard worker and gets good grades, but isn't naturally the academic type, the ACT might be a better choice for the reasons that mokudekiru points out -- it's better to have a solid SAT and a solid ACT than it is to have a solid SAT and mediocre SAT II's. After all, students typically take the SAT II in their strongest subjects, so it probably doesn't look very good to schools when your abilities in your best subject prove to be mediocre compared to your peers.
posted by kataclysm at 7:37 AM on July 9, 2010


The SAT I and SAT II have incorrect answer penalties; fractions of points are taken from your raw score per incorrect answer. The GRE and the GMAT are computer adaptive tests have incorrect answer penalties of sorts, meaning that the difficulty of the questions and thus the total points available to you decrease. The LSAT does not have an incorrect answer penalty.

I agree with heresiarch's assessment: since ACT and SAT I measure similar material, you aren't adding much by taking the ACT. The SAT IIs add more to the application.
posted by emkelley at 7:46 AM on July 9, 2010


kataclysm--the current writing section on the SAT I is the old Writing SAT II.
posted by emkelley at 7:49 AM on July 9, 2010


I took the ACT in 1986 and never took the SAT. I'd say it can't hurt and might help, as you might score better.
posted by kindall at 8:01 AM on July 9, 2010


The SATII tests have a very good curve - for instance, you can miss up to 6 (out of 60, I think) on the Math II C and still get an 800, a perfect score. I took them this year as a junior and found them the most straightforward standardized tests I've ever taken - none of the SAT I's sneaky tricks.

The ACT, too, is known for being less sneaky than the SAT I - more about testing what you know rather than your "aptitude", whatever that means nowadays. The thing is, though, if you're more humanities-inclined, it might be harder than the SAT because it's 50 % math/science and 50% reading/writing, as opposed to the SAT's 66% reading/writing and only 33% math. And it sounds like your kid is, if he's thinking about taking the history and English SAT IIs.

That said, unless the testing fee is an issue, I'd definitely recommend taking both, because lots of students do significantly better on the ACT than SAT (or vice versa).
posted by estlin at 8:19 AM on July 9, 2010


Ugh, epic Google fail. I checked to see if they still had a writing test and somehow came up with an old archived list of SAT II tests; lame. Sorry about the confusion.
posted by kataclysm at 8:56 AM on July 9, 2010


Are the schools he's applying to in the Midwest? If so, the ACT is great. If not, then the SAT is a better bet.
posted by chrisamiller at 8:59 AM on July 9, 2010


When I was in high school and taking these tests (three years ago), the ACT was considered "easier" but it's not accepted at some to most schools, depending on location.

Being in Georgia, I was one of three people I knew who took the ACT. And everyone took the SAT.
posted by reductiondesign at 9:30 AM on July 9, 2010


I lived in Texas, but applied to colleges across the country, so I took the SAT, SATII, and ACT. I found the ACT to be significantly easier, but this was in 2001, so I have no clue what's changed since then.

I'd make a large list of all the college he's applying to and figure out what set of tests would solve most of the problems. Most schools need an SAT and an SATII, or just an ACT.
posted by SNWidget at 10:08 AM on July 9, 2010


I'm the same age as your son, and I've taken the ACT, SAT and 3 SAT II subject tests (math 2, English lit, and US history).

When I was in high school and taking these tests (three years ago), the ACT was considered "easier" but it's not accepted at some to most schools, depending on location.

That might have been the case when you went to school, but as of now I'm almost positive that this is not the case, though the op should double check this just to be sure.

If he's already taken the SAT, I'd recommend just taking two subject tests (there's only a very, very small number of schools that require three, the only one I can think of now is Georgetown) as that will only take around 2-3 hours of your son's time while the ACT plus writing will take 4-5. He should be able to take the English test and one of the math's without studying, though studying probably wouldn't hurt (I didn't really study for another of the standardized tests I've taken, though I might be an outlier). If you have any other questions feel free to memail me.
posted by kylej at 10:10 AM on July 9, 2010


I was homeschooled, so some schools wanted five SATII tests and either the SAT or ACT. I didn't apply to them.

I got a marginally better score on the ACT (24 math vs. 610 math), exactly enough to declare an engineering major as a freshman. Neither seemed especially easier, and I suspect I did better on the ACT because I had already done the SAT a month earlier. Most of my friends had similar experiences, but we all took these tests at least 10 years ago. It is my general opinion that the SATII tests aren't very helpful compared with the AP subject tests (for subjects & college credit) or the ACT (for picky colleges.)
posted by SMPA at 10:14 AM on July 9, 2010


Take both. Submit the better scores.
posted by sinfony at 10:45 AM on July 9, 2010


Response by poster: Thank you for your answers.

Here is more data: so far we have only one school he's interested in, Vassar, that wants either the ACT OR the SATII as a supplement to the SATI. Every other school he's thinking about so far (Clark, Goucher, Sarah Lawrence, Drew University, Univ. of Rochester, Skidmore, and a couple of NY State schools (Purchase, New Paltz)) are very happy with either just the SATI or no test scores at all (Goucher I think, Sarah Lawrence definitely).

He's not that big on studying for tests although he certainly does it for his classes. His SATI scores are: Math 660, Reading 690, and Writing 720.

He got a 100 on his NY State Regents Exam in English/Writing this year. so I'm thinking the writing stuff comes most easily to him. But I think it would be a little crazy-making to start studying e.g. Biology or something. He just took Chem last year and got an 86 on the Regents, and also he got an 87 on the Math Regents (trig and whatever that's paired with in 11th grade), and those grade don't say to me Super High Scores on the SATII.

On the other hand, if he happened to get into Vassar (which he won't, I don't think, even though he is a "legacy") he would probably drown, so maybe we should forget about it entirely! (but probably he wants to give it a shot)

(just saying, I've been looking at some college search websites, and I am STUNNED and APPALLED at what you have to do/BE to get into college these days. It seems insane.
This kid works quite hard, gets almost all A's, has nice SAT scores, does a few hours of tutoring younger students per week, and spends a lot of time playing the guitar rather well, but apparently that is not nearly enough to get into a very good school.

I got good grades, very similar SAT scores, and all I did was play the f**king oboe, and I got into Vassar. There was no such thing as "community service." I was rather introverted and would rather not have gone to college at all than join all these "organizations" that you're not only supposed to belong to, you're supposed to be the President of or something. Something really insane happened with this process. Does anybody happen to know what that is?? (or is that another AskMe question?))
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:03 AM on July 9, 2010


Response by poster: oh, as for this:

Take both. Submit the better scores.
posted by sinfony


I'm kind of thinking the schools want to look at everything you take, and you can't "hide" any scores from them.
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:05 AM on July 9, 2010


Response by poster: This is from the Vassar website. I wonder what it means:

"Candidates for admission to the freshman class must submit EITHER the SAT Reasoning Test along with 2 SAT Subject Tests (each SAT Subject Test should be taken in a different academic subject), OR the ACT exam with the writing test. In assessing SAT scores, Vassar uses the highest individual subscores (Critical Reading, Math, and Writing) taken from multiple SAT test dates. In assessing ACT scores, Vassar uses the highest subscores taken from multiple test dates and recalculates a new composite score. For candidates taking both the SAT Reasoning Test and the ACT, Vassar will use whichever scores are higher. "

So does that mean you can take the Subject Tests and the ACT and get your scores and then submit whatever you want? (seems so, right?)

So maybe that's our answer.
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2010


Just a random point: I went to vassar (class of 2007) after taking the sat 2s. My memory says I took the math and english/writing tests and got 690 and 760, respectively. My SAT score, FWIW, was 1400 using the old scoring system. My impression was that this was relatively average for vassar.
Feel free to me mail me on any vassar qs.
posted by yeoldefortran at 1:53 PM on July 9, 2010


Unless College Board and ACT have changed completely since I went through all that nonsense (2002), the only way a college sees a score is if you send a score report, some number of which are included in the exam price and some number for which you have to pay extra.
posted by sinfony at 9:00 PM on July 9, 2010


You decide whether to send your SAT or ACT scores to a college, which costs money. You can absolutely take both the SAT and the ACT and just send the better score.

I would definitely recommend taking the ACT.
posted by good day merlock at 3:30 PM on July 10, 2010


For a school as selective as Vassar, the SAT IIs are probably a better choice. The ACT demonstrates a breadth of knowledge but the SAT IIs demonstrate depth of knowledge in particular subjects that tends to be what more selective schools are looking for.

Disclaimer: I'm a Vassar grad and teach SAT prep classes, but am not an admissions officer.
posted by amandarose at 6:36 PM on July 11, 2010 [1 favorite]


« Older Can you hear me, that when it rains and shines?   |   Who was this artist? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.