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July 6, 2010 10:57 AM Subscribe
Help me sort out my fireplace problems.
I live in a 110-year-old building in the West Village (NYC) that has fireplaces in each living room. Up until last year, the fireplaces were functional and lovely. Now, within the last 18 months or so, the building has settled and the fireplaces are no longer usable due to hairline cracks throughout the chimney, which causes smoke leakage into other apartments.
There was always a lot of crumbly crap breaking off and dropping down into my fireplace over the years, but over the past few months it has become extreme. (I blame the rainy spring, I guess.) The soot and chimney chunks get all over the floor and the walls and anything near the fireplace, which is gross and annoying to clean up every day or so. There is no flue to close, so there is no way to obstruct the chimney easily.
fireplace pic after halfassed cleaning.
My landlord is, to put it nicely, an unusually frugal man. It is unlikely that he will consider shouldering the expense of filling in/bricking up my fireplace, despite the fact that it will only ever be usable again with large amounts of construction throughout the building, unless he is somehow required to do so by law. I haven't approached him with the idea yet, as I just bitterly negotiated a rent reduction that nearly ended in tears and recriminations, and I'm not sure I should push my luck.
01. Should he refuse to take care of this, is this in any way illegal? Soot and chimney nastiness are probably not very healthy to have all over my house.
02. How much of a pain in the ass is it going to be to attempt this myself? And what might it entail? I'm hoping for a better solution that flattened cardboard boxes and duct tape.
On a household handiness scale of 1-10, with 1 being Queen Elizabeth II and 10 being the bastard child of Bob Vila and MacGyver, I am somewhere around 7.
I live in a 110-year-old building in the West Village (NYC) that has fireplaces in each living room. Up until last year, the fireplaces were functional and lovely. Now, within the last 18 months or so, the building has settled and the fireplaces are no longer usable due to hairline cracks throughout the chimney, which causes smoke leakage into other apartments.
There was always a lot of crumbly crap breaking off and dropping down into my fireplace over the years, but over the past few months it has become extreme. (I blame the rainy spring, I guess.) The soot and chimney chunks get all over the floor and the walls and anything near the fireplace, which is gross and annoying to clean up every day or so. There is no flue to close, so there is no way to obstruct the chimney easily.
fireplace pic after halfassed cleaning.
My landlord is, to put it nicely, an unusually frugal man. It is unlikely that he will consider shouldering the expense of filling in/bricking up my fireplace, despite the fact that it will only ever be usable again with large amounts of construction throughout the building, unless he is somehow required to do so by law. I haven't approached him with the idea yet, as I just bitterly negotiated a rent reduction that nearly ended in tears and recriminations, and I'm not sure I should push my luck.
01. Should he refuse to take care of this, is this in any way illegal? Soot and chimney nastiness are probably not very healthy to have all over my house.
02. How much of a pain in the ass is it going to be to attempt this myself? And what might it entail? I'm hoping for a better solution that flattened cardboard boxes and duct tape.
On a household handiness scale of 1-10, with 1 being Queen Elizabeth II and 10 being the bastard child of Bob Vila and MacGyver, I am somewhere around 7.
Go to a home improvement type store and buy a big sheet of that pink foam insulation stuff. Go for the thickest one (that's what she said), which ought to be about 2". It will cost about 10 bucks. Bring it home and cut a piece exactly to fit the chimney hole, then cram it up there. It will cut down on any heating/cooling energy lost through the chimney, and ought to contain whatever crap is falling down through there.
posted by phunniemee at 11:26 AM on July 6, 2010
posted by phunniemee at 11:26 AM on July 6, 2010
Response by poster: But since you can't control whether your fellow apartment dwellers are going to have fires in their fireplaces, and since the landlord already knows that chimney cracks are causing smoke and fume issues, I think it's in his best interest to do something about it.
Actually, everyone in the building now knows 100% that fires are not allowed, as one day back in December, the heat in the building was out for ~36h, and many people built fires and smoked out their neighbors. It was most unpleasant. I think my landlord thinks that as long as everyone knows not to make fires, there is no problem to be corrected.
The problem with both the balloon and the foam insulation is that the chunks of chimney gack are getting progressively larger. A half dozen golfball sized chunks fell this morning and one cracked the glass top of the coffee table about 2 feet away, so I imagine a balloon or soft foam might not fare very well.
posted by elizardbits at 11:34 AM on July 6, 2010
Actually, everyone in the building now knows 100% that fires are not allowed, as one day back in December, the heat in the building was out for ~36h, and many people built fires and smoked out their neighbors. It was most unpleasant. I think my landlord thinks that as long as everyone knows not to make fires, there is no problem to be corrected.
The problem with both the balloon and the foam insulation is that the chunks of chimney gack are getting progressively larger. A half dozen golfball sized chunks fell this morning and one cracked the glass top of the coffee table about 2 feet away, so I imagine a balloon or soft foam might not fare very well.
posted by elizardbits at 11:34 AM on July 6, 2010
I know someone who stuffed crumpled newspaper up her unusable chimney. She stuffed it in pretty tightly and to a noticeable depth--a foot, maybe? Her main problem was pigeons falling down the chimney and then flying around the house, and this worked to keep them out. If it'll keep a pigeon from falling through, it might block heavy chunks of material.
posted by galadriel at 11:47 AM on July 6, 2010
posted by galadriel at 11:47 AM on July 6, 2010
Best answer: Cut a decorative board for the front of the fireplace and wedge it in the opening... then forget about the crap falling behind it.
posted by HuronBob at 11:57 AM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 11:57 AM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
soot is very toxic, for starters. a building with a broke chimney, full of people with bodged up fireplace plugs and no more than a supposed agreement that no one will start a fire, is a very serious safety hazard. many people could die horribly. contact your local fire inspectors.
posted by paradroid at 12:28 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by paradroid at 12:28 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Can you get the chimney swept, as in pay for someone to come in if you don't want to buy the brush/rods yourself (I have no idea how much either of these options would cost)? Obviously the landlord should pay, but if it's inconveniencing you and he's unlikely to pay it might work out better to pay yourself.
I'd go with HuronBob's suggestion of a decorative board, maybe combined with something insulating behind it. You may want to make it removable in case you end up needing to excavate dead starlings from behind it (or indeed live ones, the flapping, scratching noises are quite disconcerting, but of course enough insulation would cut that one out). You could probably get a piece of MDF or plywood cut to the right size by a DIY shop.
posted by Lebannen at 2:10 PM on July 6, 2010
I'd go with HuronBob's suggestion of a decorative board, maybe combined with something insulating behind it. You may want to make it removable in case you end up needing to excavate dead starlings from behind it (or indeed live ones, the flapping, scratching noises are quite disconcerting, but of course enough insulation would cut that one out). You could probably get a piece of MDF or plywood cut to the right size by a DIY shop.
posted by Lebannen at 2:10 PM on July 6, 2010
Best answer: I'd build an internal timber frame from 2"x4", screwed in to the wall if possible or braced otherwise, and slide a piece of 1/2 inch ply on the top to cover the hole. Stuff some insulation up there first then build in shelves or something to make use of the space.
posted by Kerasia at 4:41 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by Kerasia at 4:41 PM on July 6, 2010
Response by poster: These are all awesome ideas, thanks! I will carefully approach the idea of a chimney sweeping w/ the landlord, and if he is resistant, I will proceed to all manner of nonpermanent blockings up.
posted by elizardbits at 6:03 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by elizardbits at 6:03 PM on July 6, 2010
Don't underestimate the pink foam stuff phunniemee suggested - them are mutherfook solid. Thems good stuff.
Being foamed, they'd absorb a lot of kinetic energy of stuff falling down and chunks falling on it won't be nearly as loud as stuff hitting brick. If you give it a shot, cut some legs for it from something (either two sheets of wood on either side, or four 1x1s on the corners) instead of relying solely on it being jammed up there. Drill a couple of holes in the foam and loop a piece of rope through it as a handle so if you want to dislodge it later, it'll be easier. You could easily wedge the foam board higher up the chimney so you won't be able to see it. If you look/ask around, you might be able to pick up a chimney chute-sized chunk for free instead of getting a whole slab.
Going this route, you can still use the fireplace alcove to store/show-off stuff. The foam will save you a few pennies on cooling/heating, to boot, unless you put some insulation behind the decorative board.
posted by porpoise at 7:29 PM on July 6, 2010
Being foamed, they'd absorb a lot of kinetic energy of stuff falling down and chunks falling on it won't be nearly as loud as stuff hitting brick. If you give it a shot, cut some legs for it from something (either two sheets of wood on either side, or four 1x1s on the corners) instead of relying solely on it being jammed up there. Drill a couple of holes in the foam and loop a piece of rope through it as a handle so if you want to dislodge it later, it'll be easier. You could easily wedge the foam board higher up the chimney so you won't be able to see it. If you look/ask around, you might be able to pick up a chimney chute-sized chunk for free instead of getting a whole slab.
Going this route, you can still use the fireplace alcove to store/show-off stuff. The foam will save you a few pennies on cooling/heating, to boot, unless you put some insulation behind the decorative board.
posted by porpoise at 7:29 PM on July 6, 2010
So, a maintenance issue with the place you're renting is causing your possessions to be damaged and your health to potentially be effected?
If this was Brisbane, Australia, this would absolutely be something the landlord would need to fix.
In addition, you can no longer use something that you could when you agreed to rent. Ergo, your landlord is no longer fulfilling his part of the bargain. You should be able to get him to do something.
posted by Quadlex at 8:00 PM on July 7, 2010
If this was Brisbane, Australia, this would absolutely be something the landlord would need to fix.
In addition, you can no longer use something that you could when you agreed to rent. Ergo, your landlord is no longer fulfilling his part of the bargain. You should be able to get him to do something.
posted by Quadlex at 8:00 PM on July 7, 2010
Response by poster: I. Uh. So I got a bunch of scrap wood from the guys doing construction next door and was all set to build a fireplace-crap-retention platform.
And then I had a couple of beers and decided to build a trebuchet instead, to launch cherry tomatoes at the windows of the neighbors across the backyard who always blast really crap music late on weekday nights with their windows open.
We have successfully negotiated the terms of their surrender, but my fireplace is still dirty. I feel this is a phyrric victory at best, as those were some srsly fucking good tomatoes.
sometimes I sit down and think about the ridiculousness of my life and I have a good cry.
posted by elizardbits at 8:51 AM on August 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
And then I had a couple of beers and decided to build a trebuchet instead, to launch cherry tomatoes at the windows of the neighbors across the backyard who always blast really crap music late on weekday nights with their windows open.
We have successfully negotiated the terms of their surrender, but my fireplace is still dirty. I feel this is a phyrric victory at best, as those were some srsly fucking good tomatoes.
sometimes I sit down and think about the ridiculousness of my life and I have a good cry.
posted by elizardbits at 8:51 AM on August 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
02. Have you heard of chimney balloons? These are typically used to reduce heat loss through fireplaces in the winter, but it sounds like one could also solve your problems. Note that you have to be very attentive to not starting fires while the balloon is in the flue. Many people put a note on the balloon pole as a reminder. It's about a 2 on the HHS.
posted by cocoagirl at 11:18 AM on July 6, 2010