Can they evict my snake?
July 6, 2010 10:55 AM Subscribe
LandlordFilter: I'm signing a lease and moving in this month. I just found out my landlord has a strict "no snakes" policy, and I can't bear to part with my legless companion. What are my options? I'm not sure the policy is in the contract.
When I looked at another property owned by the same company (I didn't know they were linked at the time), the agent happened to mention this rule in passing and said that "knowing you have a snake, we would add a clause to the lease stating that you would be evicted if we ever found you keeping a snake in the apartment." She will not be in contact with present leasing agent so I'm not concerned about that.
I've already paid my deposit but have not signed the lease yet. I'm not sure whether the "no snakes" policy is explicitly in the lease agreement but hopefully getting a copy today.
I think I have two options:
-Tell them up-front that I have the (non-aggressive, non-venomous, fits-in-a-20G-tank, quiet, adorable) snake, and risk having them write me a clause like the one stated above
-Not tell them, and hope they don't go into my apartment without notice and/or camouflage the tank while away
They've had my deposit for over a month and are making some modifications to the apartment per my request. If, worst-case scenario, there is a mention of this policy in the lease, can I try to negotiate a deposit for keeping him? Most importantly: if it's not in the lease or mentioned any time during the move-in, can I and/or my snake be evicted upon discovery?
When I looked at another property owned by the same company (I didn't know they were linked at the time), the agent happened to mention this rule in passing and said that "knowing you have a snake, we would add a clause to the lease stating that you would be evicted if we ever found you keeping a snake in the apartment." She will not be in contact with present leasing agent so I'm not concerned about that.
I've already paid my deposit but have not signed the lease yet. I'm not sure whether the "no snakes" policy is explicitly in the lease agreement but hopefully getting a copy today.
I think I have two options:
-Tell them up-front that I have the (non-aggressive, non-venomous, fits-in-a-20G-tank, quiet, adorable) snake, and risk having them write me a clause like the one stated above
-Not tell them, and hope they don't go into my apartment without notice and/or camouflage the tank while away
They've had my deposit for over a month and are making some modifications to the apartment per my request. If, worst-case scenario, there is a mention of this policy in the lease, can I try to negotiate a deposit for keeping him? Most importantly: if it's not in the lease or mentioned any time during the move-in, can I and/or my snake be evicted upon discovery?
Why can't you find another apartment, rather than move into one that strictly prohibits your pet?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:01 AM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:01 AM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
If it is a specific clause in the lease: you're screwed. There will be no negotiation and if they discover it, you can't count on being given a chance to get rid of it then, they may well decide to evict you.
If it's not in the lease, then no, they shouldn't be able to evict you. Unless there is an all-encompassing "no pets" part in the lease.
posted by Eicats at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
If it's not in the lease, then no, they shouldn't be able to evict you. Unless there is an all-encompassing "no pets" part in the lease.
posted by Eicats at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I've lived in five apartments in three different states, from private to large company owned, and have NEVER had anyone take issue with the snake, or even expect a deposit. I had stopped mentioning it because no one has ever cared.
roomthreeseventeen, I'm moving from across the country and won't be back until my move-in date.
posted by ista at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2010
roomthreeseventeen, I'm moving from across the country and won't be back until my move-in date.
posted by ista at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2010
then you've been tremendously lucky.
again, without knowing what state your lease will be in, there is no way we can answer if this will be an issue, especially with the caveat that you don't even know what the pets policy is per the lease.
posted by nadawi at 11:20 AM on July 6, 2010
again, without knowing what state your lease will be in, there is no way we can answer if this will be an issue, especially with the caveat that you don't even know what the pets policy is per the lease.
posted by nadawi at 11:20 AM on July 6, 2010
In all likelihood, you lease will have a no pets clause, or will allow only "dogs up to 15 pounds, or 1 cat" or similar. They don't say simply, "No dogs or cats" and leave you free to have a menagerie consisting of every animal other than dogs or cats.
Generally, if you want to have a pet, your first imperative when finding a place to live is to seek out a landlord who specifically agrees to your pet. Having a pet drastically reduces the places you can live. Though the laws vary by jurisdiction, you may indeed be evicted for having a pet in violation of your lease, or be faced with the choice of getting rid of your pet vs. moving out.
You can, of course, try to negotiate for a rider that will allow you to pay extra to have the snake, but they don't have to agree. Plus, they'd surely be within their rights to keep some or all of your deposit, particularly given that they've made alterations based on your requests. Theoretically, if you fail to move in, they could even sue you for breach of contract (and require you to pay rent even if you don't take tenancy, at least until they find a substitute tenant), on the theory that you had an oral contract for a lease of one year, which would not be subject to the statute of frauds.
None of this is legal advice, and I am not your lawyer. But you might need one, depending on how this plays out (though I hope it gets resolved with a minimum of stress). Good luck!
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:21 AM on July 6, 2010
Generally, if you want to have a pet, your first imperative when finding a place to live is to seek out a landlord who specifically agrees to your pet. Having a pet drastically reduces the places you can live. Though the laws vary by jurisdiction, you may indeed be evicted for having a pet in violation of your lease, or be faced with the choice of getting rid of your pet vs. moving out.
You can, of course, try to negotiate for a rider that will allow you to pay extra to have the snake, but they don't have to agree. Plus, they'd surely be within their rights to keep some or all of your deposit, particularly given that they've made alterations based on your requests. Theoretically, if you fail to move in, they could even sue you for breach of contract (and require you to pay rent even if you don't take tenancy, at least until they find a substitute tenant), on the theory that you had an oral contract for a lease of one year, which would not be subject to the statute of frauds.
None of this is legal advice, and I am not your lawyer. But you might need one, depending on how this plays out (though I hope it gets resolved with a minimum of stress). Good luck!
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:21 AM on July 6, 2010
and require you to pay rent even if you don't take tenancy, at least until they find a substitute tenant
Mind you that in some states, the burden is on the LANDLORD to prove they couldn't fill the apartment. They can't simply just not rent it out and then say 'Aha, see -- we couldn't get someone for it!' when other apartments were filled at the same time, etc. I had to deal with this -- I informed them well in advance that I'd be moving early, they said it wasn't a big deal, then a few months later started screaming about how they couldn't get a new tenant and were coming after me for the rest of my rent. They shut up real fast when I found out three other units in the building had been filled after I'd moved.
Would you be able to get ahold of a copy of your lease somehow? Get it faxed to you or somesuch, so you could read it over again? You've got a right to read it, after all, and at least that way you'd know where you stand.
posted by Heretical at 11:49 AM on July 6, 2010
Mind you that in some states, the burden is on the LANDLORD to prove they couldn't fill the apartment. They can't simply just not rent it out and then say 'Aha, see -- we couldn't get someone for it!' when other apartments were filled at the same time, etc. I had to deal with this -- I informed them well in advance that I'd be moving early, they said it wasn't a big deal, then a few months later started screaming about how they couldn't get a new tenant and were coming after me for the rest of my rent. They shut up real fast when I found out three other units in the building had been filled after I'd moved.
Would you be able to get ahold of a copy of your lease somehow? Get it faxed to you or somesuch, so you could read it over again? You've got a right to read it, after all, and at least that way you'd know where you stand.
posted by Heretical at 11:49 AM on July 6, 2010
You agreed to the terms when told about the snakes policy, what exactly are you trying to accomplish here? If you don't like the terms, call them, tell them, and if they won't budge then ask for your deposit back and find a snake-friendly building. Don't be that asshole tenant who is always trying to get away with shit. Be a responsible adult. You were told about this and chose to be willfully ignorant. I doubt you're getting out of this.
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:44 PM on July 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:44 PM on July 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: If you see a "no pets" clause in the lease, you should mention that you have a pet, and can the lease be rewritten to allow that? You're sorry for not mentioning it, but other landlords didn't mind since it's in a tank. You are, of course, willing to pay X as a pet deposit and your other landlords' contact information to show your pet was no problem. If they say no, well, that's what the deposit is for -- they have some money in case you don't sign the lease for some reason.
If there's no such clause in the lease, then the worst that can happen is they do not renew the lease. (In some jurisdictions, not even that.)
posted by jeather at 1:23 PM on July 6, 2010
If there's no such clause in the lease, then the worst that can happen is they do not renew the lease. (In some jurisdictions, not even that.)
posted by jeather at 1:23 PM on July 6, 2010
I don't think I'd sign the lease if I were you and wanted to keep my snake. If it's very specific about NO SNAKE (I have never heard of this before, but it sounds like it was specifically mentioned) , I wouldn't move in, period. Landlords do tend to suddenly leave notices that they need to go into your house to fix the blahblah and will be doing it while you're out at work, so I wouldn't count on being able to hide the snake forever, and do you really want to get busted/kicked out/whatever after you've moved in?
What damn dirty ape said. Don't lie, and don't tell them you have a snake and can they make an exception for you. They said no and you know this. Find another less picky place to live.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:03 PM on July 6, 2010
What damn dirty ape said. Don't lie, and don't tell them you have a snake and can they make an exception for you. They said no and you know this. Find another less picky place to live.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:03 PM on July 6, 2010
It may depend partly on where you're moving/where you live. Some localities are generally way more anal about pets than others, in my experience. I don't think that trying to hide the pet is a viable solution. As Admiral Haddock mentions, it's better to try to find a place that will accept your pet rather than to try to get under the door with your pet after you've already agreed to the terms of a lease. But as he also mentions, having any pet drastically reduces your options, especially if you're on the coasts or anywhere else where the rental market is tight.
In any case, I wouldn't bank on the property management company (or its employees) not entering your apartment without notice (unless the lease explicitly forbids it) -- or including a specific "no snakes" clause in any standard lease.
posted by blucevalo at 2:05 PM on July 6, 2010
In any case, I wouldn't bank on the property management company (or its employees) not entering your apartment without notice (unless the lease explicitly forbids it) -- or including a specific "no snakes" clause in any standard lease.
posted by blucevalo at 2:05 PM on July 6, 2010
Best answer: If you've paid a deposit, you're entitled to look at the lease they're going to ask you to sign. Get the lease and look it over for No Snakes/No Pets language. If it's there, either negotiate it out or find another place to live. Life is too short to worry about your landlord seeing your snake.
posted by gum at 3:07 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by gum at 3:07 PM on July 6, 2010
Useful pointers for you maybe - Previously (Cat related) /and/ Lease + Eviction tagged queries
posted by DrtyBlvd at 6:29 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by DrtyBlvd at 6:29 PM on July 6, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the input. To clarify, no one from this particular property mentioned anything about a "no-snakes" policy, nor was it on any paperwork that I have signed to date. I didn't realize it was the same managing company until last week so any willful ignorance was wholly subconscious.
I did request a copy of the lease before signing but I am still waiting on that email. When I spoke to the landlord to request it, I did own attempt to own up to the snake--the connection was terrible but I was told "fine, pets in an aquarium are OK." So I'm going with that until I see the lease, at which point I will be taking jeather's recommendations regarding negotiations if necessary. Thanks!
posted by ista at 5:19 PM on July 7, 2010
I did request a copy of the lease before signing but I am still waiting on that email. When I spoke to the landlord to request it, I did own attempt to own up to the snake--the connection was terrible but I was told "fine, pets in an aquarium are OK." So I'm going with that until I see the lease, at which point I will be taking jeather's recommendations regarding negotiations if necessary. Thanks!
posted by ista at 5:19 PM on July 7, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
everywhere i've ever rented in the US there has been a pets policy (deposit, monthly fee, allowed species and breeds) and being in violation of that was a huge fine, getting rid of the animal, and eventually eviction.
posted by nadawi at 10:58 AM on July 6, 2010