Is This Late-Night Pond-Watcher Dealing Drugs By My House, and Should I Be Concerned?
July 1, 2010 5:43 PM   Subscribe

Is This Late-Night Pond-Watcher Dealing Drugs By My House, and Should I Be Concerned?

I live right on a small pond that is part of Conservation Land. During summer months, a guy regularly parks by the pond on a motorcycle at around 11:30 PM, then is either joined by people and stays for a bit, or leaves just after midnight. (Arrival time may vary, but when he's alone, he has always left just after midnight.)

Town I live in is rural--we can't see our nearest neighbors, and we're the only ones who can see the parking area for the pond. Next town over is a small city that has typical urban crime problems and a quick web search reveals: "There are at least nine national and local gangs with nearly 200 active members in F." Further, whenever there's a wave of house or car break-ins in our town, it's always in areas bordering F. The pond and our house are probably only a 10 minute drive from a not so nice area of F.

So...have I been watching too many TV crime dramas or is this guy almost certainly dealing drugs? The leaving right after midnight is almost self-consciously creepy. Only other explanantion I can come up with is that he has a late-shift job that he psyches himself up for by staring at the pond.

If he's dealing, should I be concerned? This has been going on for maybe 2 or 3 years without incident. When he's joined by others, they play music relatively softly (occasionally on a weekend night there's more rowdiness). But, I guess I'm worried about deal gone bad, shots fired---who knows....

And I'm not even sure who this could safely be reported to. It's illegal to be in the parking area after dusk, so a law is already being broken--but, there's reason not to trust our local police, and if other authorities were notified, it would obviously have been us who did the notifying.

Thanks for reading this far, and any feedback appreciated.

Jon
posted by Jon44 to Human Relations (33 answers total)
 
i don't know any (and haven't heard of any) drug dealers that show up to a public place on a schedule to deal drugs out in the open (except for the guy that's always on the corner, but that's different).
posted by nadawi at 5:48 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


For what it's worth, I think you're worrying needlessly.

Leaving around midnight consistently sounds perfectly innocent, most people who work in the morning try to get to bed around the same time every night. Also, you mentioned that it's only during summer months, so he's probably there just to enjoy the pond.

Unless something sketchier happens, "guy who likes to hang out at a pond in summer" seems like a very strange thing to worry about.
posted by ripley_ at 5:51 PM on July 1, 2010


This has been going on for maybe 2 or 3 years without incident.

So there's basically no problem then? Let it slide.
posted by BeerFilter at 5:51 PM on July 1, 2010 [13 favorites]


Maybe he works the 3-11 shift and stops for off for decompression time on the way home. If he's quiet and his friends are quiet, there's no problem. It sounds like a really nice place to spend a bit of time after work.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:57 PM on July 1, 2010


For years, I've gone for long late-night walks. Leave the house at 9-10, get back at 11-12, depending on where I am / my route. Also depending on where I am, I often stop off in some form of park / nature and relax. I find it a great way to relax while getting some exercise.

1) I often see folks who are likely dealing drugs hanging out in specific areas. Sometimes I nod at the the way I nod at anyone else I see on the street, sometimes I don't.

2) I've been stopped a couple times by the cops and asked what I'm up to. My answer's always the same, out for a walk and relaxing.

So if they're not causing trouble, don't cause them trouble.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:10 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


if you have reason to not trust your local police, you should probably stay out of other peoples' business. at the very least, consider how you would feel if someone pointed those untrustworthy local police your way, and how much of a hassle it would be for you.
posted by radiosilents at 6:16 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Honestly, it sounds to me, from what you say, like a guy who found himself a special get away & occasionally invites friends to share it with. But what do I know? I'm not there, and I'm certainly not in posession of all the facts.

If you're seriously worried about it, I suppose you could call the police and have them check on it. They'll do that sometimes, although not necessarily on your schedule. My personal Next Move, though, if I couldn't shake my anxiety about the situation, would be to chat up an officer. (Small town, you say? Bet you they already know who he is & what he's up to.) They might have something reassuring to say on the subject. Or, it might make them curious enough to look into it in a low-key kind of way, is my thinking.

I think collectively as a country we have lost our common sense over these sorts of things. We're so inundated with horrific stories on the news, and "tips for safety", that we've come to the conclusion that the world is a horribly dangerous place. (To be fair, we've also lost a lot of the community awareness that used to protect us as individuals.) My personal conviction is that the odds are strongly in my favor; that bad things happen a *lot* less often to specific individuals than Network News wants us to believe.

Bottom line for me: What you're seeing is an anomoly in your community. It is right and good to be aware of it, and consider it's potential ramifications. However, that doesn't necessarily warrant going into full-blown "I'm in Danger" mode. Being aware of anomalies and being alert for danger are two separate things: The former leaves you more prepared to respond to the latter, but is not in and of itself cause for action.
posted by Ys at 6:21 PM on July 1, 2010 [5 favorites]


I live in a rough neighborhood and view the drug dealers who keep regular schedules as an element of stability as compared to the sketchier itinerant elements.

I also sometimes watch them from my window. (They can't see into it from outside.) That initially made me feel safer about their presence, and later came to seem like entertainment. :)
posted by salvia at 6:34 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


So the guy goes out to look at a pond at night, and sometimes brings his friends. Isn't that what conservation land is for? Enjoying nature? They're out there minding their own business and not hurting anyone, you should do the same. I wouldn't involve the police unless he or his friends are actually causing a disturbance to you...or littering. Litter bugs are awful people.
posted by Half-a-Dozen Paper Cranes at 6:39 PM on July 1, 2010


It sounds like you live someplace near my neck of the woods [rural new england someplace] and I'd go along with "guy works 3-11 shift, chills out on the way home." If I were guessing, and I am guessing, maybe he's toking up, having a beer or otherwise doing a little unwinding time before he heads back to wherever home is. Maybe he's got a family or an otherwise busy non-private home life. I think the drug dealing option is slim to none. You'd see a bunch of cars coming and going, has been my experience. If you're really concerned, I think my first choice would be to go out for a late night walk [got a dog? can you borrow a dog?] and just say "hey" to the guy as you're walking by and see if he seems squirrely. If he's not bothering you, I'd leave it. If the music is a problem, you could walk over and say something, otherwise I'd just live and let live.
posted by jessamyn at 6:39 PM on July 1, 2010 [4 favorites]


He's not dealing. Don't ruin this for him.
posted by micawber at 6:46 PM on July 1, 2010


Maybe the pond is a cruising spot?
posted by slow graffiti at 6:46 PM on July 1, 2010


Response by poster: Helpful perspectives. Yes, guy could have found himself a special getaway that's on the way home from work. And Ys is right in pointing out how media sensationalism influences our perceptions of situations like this.

In particular, and on the other side of the "let it slide" equation, are a number of recent newspaper articles saying gang violence in F. is on the rise, etc. (and some of the gangs are motorcycle gangs). And this guy is almost certainly coming from F. And, I do think our little pond would be a great place to sell drugs--you can see a car coming from a mile off, people would know to show up by midnight if they need something, it's outside the jurisdiction of the town of F.'s anti-gang task forces, drugs could be hidden under a rock in case someone did come, etc. (local teenagers have been arrested for smoking pot in the parking area, so maybe that put the drug connection in my mind).

In any case, I don't think it's totally crazy to see a potential link with drugs and gangs, but I see the wisdom of he's probably a sentimental biker who likes to escape the city for a period of time. (Even so, always deciding he's had enough relaxation only after midnight passes, kind of creeps me out--too many links to the occult...)
posted by Jon44 at 6:47 PM on July 1, 2010


Even if they are selling drugs, why does it matter to you? Either go buy some or leave others to their own vices. It seems they are causing trouble so don't needlessly bother others.
posted by Knigel at 6:51 PM on July 1, 2010


Even so, always deciding he's had enough relaxation only after midnight passes, kind of creeps me out--too many links to the occult...

It's probably more linked to his work schedule than his hot late-night date with Baphomet or the Knights Templar. Seriously. Googling tells me you live in a state where the difference between "kids pretending to have a Black Mass" and "actual Pagan practices" gets delineated pretty firmly every single Halloween in every single local paper-- the same state I grew up in.

People who are practicing an offbeat religion don't go out of their way to get noticed on a set schedule by nervous neighbors-- they rent a meeting location or go to someone's house or have it in broad daylight in a park with permits. Pagans are pretty boring that way.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 6:57 PM on July 1, 2010


Jon44: "(Even so, always deciding he's had enough relaxation only after midnight passes, kind of creeps me out--too many links to the occult...)"

FWIW, I just stopped taking you seriously at all. You're acting like you get your entire world view from watching FOX news or something. Relax. Nothing bad's going on. No drug dealing, no satanists, no vampires, werewolves, shapeshifters, blobs, things from another world, its, thems, or other scary stuff.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:57 PM on July 1, 2010 [12 favorites]


Response by poster: It's probably more linked to his work schedule than his hot late-night date with Baphomet or the Knights Templar

Yeah, I was just trying to communicate the gut, creepy reaction I have--I'm not really afraid of witches in our midst.

Bottom line for me: What you're seeing is an anomoly in your community. It is right and good to be aware of it, and consider it's potential ramifications. However, that doesn't necessarily warrant going into full-blown "I'm in Danger" mode. Being aware of anomalies and being alert for danger are two separate things

This got me thinking more about source of concern. There have been a few high-profile home invasions in New England in past few years The fact that we're isolated here and that this guy is an anomoly in the neighborhood, and that the media has sensationalized a few violent incidences all added up....
posted by Jon44 at 7:05 PM on July 1, 2010


a guy who shows up every summer over a couple of years to hang out by the pond is not casing your house for a violent home invasion.
posted by nadawi at 7:08 PM on July 1, 2010 [8 favorites]


If the guy's making a living dealing drugs (which sounds improbable in this case anyway), he has no need to do home invasions and if his turf is nice and quiet, he has no need for gang wars. If you have the cops try to take him out, OTOH, you might create a fight over the turf and/or a need to support his habit by less consensual means if he just goes somewhere else and can't get new turf if he's an addict.

Drug-related violence is typically drug-*trade*-related violence, AKA, due to instability due to illegality of drugs. Most dealers-- like any businesspeople-- prefer not to be disrupted and not to cause hassles that might create disruptions by doing things like shooting people or poisoning their customers (you don't get many repeat buyers this way).

Sensible law enforcement thus prioritizes dealers who are violent and/or disruptive of neighborhood peace-- thereby creating Darwinian selection for dealers who are less obtrusive and less violent. Calling the police on nonviolent, non-loud people about whom you have no evidence of illegal activity makes no sense.
posted by Maias at 7:19 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


His regular schedule means he is responsible and predictable, which is the opposite of erratic and unpredictable. (That was my point above about how the regulars are safer than the crackheads passing through town, who are the ones that might do the violent robbery.)

The guy is outside at night. That's it. You mention that other crime has taken place in the area. That is completely irrelevant. You have provided no reason to believe that this person is violent or dangerous.

If you do want to know about him, you could walk by as jessamyn suggested or you could discretely watch him as I suggested. I think if you demystify this guy, you might feel better.
posted by salvia at 7:27 PM on July 1, 2010 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: The guy is outside at night. That's it. You mention that other crime has taken place in the area. That is completely irrelevant. You have provided no reason to believe that this person is violent or dangerous.

Good point.
posted by Jon44 at 7:32 PM on July 1, 2010


By the way, it doesn't even sound like he's dealing. He would be there longer. It sounds more like he has a standing "come by after the restaurant closes if you feel like hanging out" deal with a few friends, and he waits until midnight before giving up.
posted by salvia at 7:35 PM on July 1, 2010


shoulda previewed
posted by salvia at 7:37 PM on July 1, 2010


Have you though about going out and being social? Walk by and say hello. See if you can strike up a conversation. I'm sure you'll get your answer quicker than asking on here.
posted by Knigel at 7:46 PM on July 1, 2010


Mod note: comment removed - eye rolling and sarcasm considered harmful, no one is forcing you to answer questions that make you grouchy
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:54 PM on July 1, 2010 [1 favorite]


Watch him one night. The pattern of drug dealing is unmistakable if you know what you're looking for: If he is dealing drugs, there will be people coming by, meeting with him, and then leaving after a relatively short period of time; it is unlikely he will have more than one or two people coming by at a time. How often is he on the phone or texting? If he is a drug dealer his phone should be blowing up all the time. Drug dealing is a business, so look to see if it looks like he is running a business down by the pond.
posted by fuq at 9:09 PM on July 1, 2010


In particular, and on the other side of the "let it slide" equation, are a number of recent newspaper articles saying gang violence in F. is on the rise, etc. (and some of the gangs are motorcycle gangs). And this guy is almost certainly coming from F. And, I do think our little pond would be a great place to sell drugs--you can see a car coming from a mile off, people would know to show up by midnight if they need something, it's outside the jurisdiction of the town of F.'s anti-gang task forces, drugs could be hidden under a rock in case someone did come, etc. (local teenagers have been arrested for smoking pot in the parking area, so maybe that put the drug connection in my mind).

If one can see a car coming from a mile off in this location, then a cop could see them and scattering would be terribly conspicuous. Under a rock isn't a good way to keep the massive investment of drugs very safe from cops.

I gently suggest that the news has you riled up a bit. The dude might be smoking a joint or having a beer, but if years of this behavior have passed without incident, it's unlikely he's running any kind of major operation that's going to bring violence to your doorstep.
posted by desuetude at 9:30 PM on July 1, 2010


*discreetly watch him (not discretely)
posted by salvia at 10:14 PM on July 1, 2010


Maybe he's waiting for someone who gets off work at midnight? So either he goes to meet them/ pick them up at midnight, or they get a ride out to the pond and hang out with their friends for a while? It's cheaper than waiting in a bar when the weather's nice....
posted by Lebannen at 2:57 AM on July 2, 2010


This person hasn't harmed you or your community, from what you've described. Don't harm him with unjustified fear and baseless speculation.
posted by foobario at 3:25 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


That behavior pattern doesn't say drug dealing to me, and I agree that even if it were it sounds pretty predictable and stable. It couldn't be any kind of major operation, because the traffic most certainly would stick out - if it's not a major operation, it's not enough volume to upset the gangs 10 minutes away, and it's pretty far removed for a turf war. I don't see customers being a real threat - if he is okay with meeting them in the dark by an isolated pond, then he probably has judged them safe enough. And why would the music start when people got there - I would think no music and no hanging out, since the music starting might draw some attention.

I don't understand why it matters that it's midnight - unless he's doing some sort of ritual, which you would see, I don't get the occult tie-in. My mental clock uses midnight as a "getting late" flag on weeknights, maybe his does too.

If it's been two or three years and there hasn't been a problem and there's no evidence that you should expect one, then I wouldn't go looking for one. I can see how it would be a little creepy to you, because you're there and you are the one peeking out the window when it's dark and quiet, but sometimes outsiders and their detachment can help mitigate that a little.
posted by mrs. taters at 6:18 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


Drug dealers who meet outside change locations after they've been to a spot five or six times. Obviously dealers who work a corner are a different story, but when both parties to the deal travel to get there they don't keep going back to the same place. They also don't play music or spend more time in a public area than they have to. That's called "hanging out". If there's anything illegal going on there, it's a guy smoking a joint.

Even so, always deciding he's had enough relaxation only after midnight passes, kind of creeps me out--too many links to the occult...

Too many? How many? More than kind of, sort of one (it's late at night)?

He isn't mutilating rabbits to glorify Beelzebub.
posted by BigSky at 10:29 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


Daywalkers are usually not aware that there are hoards of people that work the late shift, so we do things a bit differently than people who live with the sun. Its probably just some dude that wants to wind down after a rough 'day' at work. I used to go for walks when I got off work at midnight, and cops really wanted to bust me for something. Just a dude out walking. Nothing to see here. Move along.
posted by ducktape at 11:02 AM on July 2, 2010 [1 favorite]


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