Going Native
June 27, 2010 7:29 PM Subscribe
How do (did) you get better at a second language when you're suddenly immersed in it, and you were just moderately fluent to begin with?
So I've landed in Montreal for 3 months worth of work. It would be great if I could really bring up my french skills while I'm here. I just had my first full day of orientating myself around the city, and giving my french a decent workout... I'm a little worn out from the shell-shock of it, but feel inspired to try and improve while I'm here. What do you suggest I do?
I was in french-immersion all through elementary school, took classes in high school, and one university class (a 2-month immersion program). To keep it up for fun, I've been chatting with a few people here and there over the years, watch a few films and listen to some music. But I find there are gaps in my vocabulary, like I've only gotten halfway there. Taking class to be a last-resort measure if I can't get further on my own.
For starters, I went ahead and picked up a little french/english dictionary, and a french novel I'm going to work my way through. I am also making the effort to speak french as much as possible, but I gave up a few times today while shopping - somewhat lacking the ability to get into detail on things. Some people would rather practice their english than suffer through my french. I had to turn off the tv this evening though, it was a bit much. Been saving a few new french films (sans subtitles) to watch eventually here. Work starts tomorrow, where things shouldn't be half bad - most people speak english there too, but work is mainly done in french where possible.
I feel like I could be missing something, but I'd appreciate hearing what other people have to say on their experiences in this kind of situation - knowing a sizeable amount but not being 100% fluent in a language and getting an immersion in it. What helped you the most? What do you recommend I do?
So I've landed in Montreal for 3 months worth of work. It would be great if I could really bring up my french skills while I'm here. I just had my first full day of orientating myself around the city, and giving my french a decent workout... I'm a little worn out from the shell-shock of it, but feel inspired to try and improve while I'm here. What do you suggest I do?
I was in french-immersion all through elementary school, took classes in high school, and one university class (a 2-month immersion program). To keep it up for fun, I've been chatting with a few people here and there over the years, watch a few films and listen to some music. But I find there are gaps in my vocabulary, like I've only gotten halfway there. Taking class to be a last-resort measure if I can't get further on my own.
For starters, I went ahead and picked up a little french/english dictionary, and a french novel I'm going to work my way through. I am also making the effort to speak french as much as possible, but I gave up a few times today while shopping - somewhat lacking the ability to get into detail on things. Some people would rather practice their english than suffer through my french. I had to turn off the tv this evening though, it was a bit much. Been saving a few new french films (sans subtitles) to watch eventually here. Work starts tomorrow, where things shouldn't be half bad - most people speak english there too, but work is mainly done in french where possible.
I feel like I could be missing something, but I'd appreciate hearing what other people have to say on their experiences in this kind of situation - knowing a sizeable amount but not being 100% fluent in a language and getting an immersion in it. What helped you the most? What do you recommend I do?
It sounds like you've just been there for a few days? Don't worry, you will improve exponentially during the time you're there. I went to a Spanish immersion school as a little kid (ages 5-8) and then took it again in college for two semesters and could barely say "where's the bathroom?" After three months of traveling in Central America, I was having conversations about politics and getting around with ease. I was also spending too much time with backpackers, speaking English, and I bet I would have done a lot better if I'd cut back on that.
So I'd just say: keep speaking French as much as you possibly can, and be patient with yourself. If people do try to practice their English, maybe just politely say, in French of course, "do you mind if I speak French? I'm trying to learn, too!"
Oh, and watching TV in another language is a really, really great way to learn, too. A lot of my friends who moved to the states as kids learned English this way, and none of them have accents. Obviously, it's easier for kids, but it works for adults too! The best is watching shows you already know, dubbed into the other language. I learned a ton of Spanish by watching dubbed Simpsons!
posted by lunasol at 7:36 PM on June 27, 2010
So I'd just say: keep speaking French as much as you possibly can, and be patient with yourself. If people do try to practice their English, maybe just politely say, in French of course, "do you mind if I speak French? I'm trying to learn, too!"
Oh, and watching TV in another language is a really, really great way to learn, too. A lot of my friends who moved to the states as kids learned English this way, and none of them have accents. Obviously, it's easier for kids, but it works for adults too! The best is watching shows you already know, dubbed into the other language. I learned a ton of Spanish by watching dubbed Simpsons!
posted by lunasol at 7:36 PM on June 27, 2010
Try watching French movies or better, French television, with the closed captions on -- not English subtitles, but French subtitles. That will train your ear to hear the words.
Also, listen to Radio-Canada in French.
Traditionally, though, the way to learn French in Montreal is to date a French girl.
Oh, and, don't feel bad if you don't understand everything. The French you learn in America and even often in Canada is Parisian French, not Quebec French. It will take some time to understand the accent.
posted by musofire at 7:36 PM on June 27, 2010
Also, listen to Radio-Canada in French.
Traditionally, though, the way to learn French in Montreal is to date a French girl.
Oh, and, don't feel bad if you don't understand everything. The French you learn in America and even often in Canada is Parisian French, not Quebec French. It will take some time to understand the accent.
posted by musofire at 7:36 PM on June 27, 2010
Best answer: In a way, you're already doing nearly everything you need to be doing. It won't happen overnight, but the effort you're making, and the fact that you're doing your best to actually immerse yourself in French is going to go a long way to helping you become more fluent. In addition to reading, watching movies, and work, it would be a good idea to keep a little (pocket-sized) notebook with you to jot down new words to look up when you've got time. I usually need to hear a new word and ask it's meaning several times before it sticks, but I find the act of writing makes it a bit easier to internalize what I've learned.
Other than that, be patient. It won't happen overnight, and more than likely, you yourself won't really notice improvement. On the other hand, people around you most likely will. Still, 3 months in French should definitely help, if you can keep to your plan of staying with French. (in other words, time to spend the time you use reading MeFi studying French instead)
posted by Ghidorah at 7:41 PM on June 27, 2010
Other than that, be patient. It won't happen overnight, and more than likely, you yourself won't really notice improvement. On the other hand, people around you most likely will. Still, 3 months in French should definitely help, if you can keep to your plan of staying with French. (in other words, time to spend the time you use reading MeFi studying French instead)
posted by Ghidorah at 7:41 PM on June 27, 2010
A couple things from my experiences:
- You appear to know this, but simply being immersed in a culture won't do anything for your language. On my Russian study abroad program, a few people barely improved their Russian over several months because they were not pro-active. Seek out conversation, talk to people, look for opportunities to flex your French muscle.
- I carried a small notebook with me and jotted down stuff all the time. Words I saw on signs, expressions I overheard people say, etc. I would look it all up that night in my dictionary and try to memorize them.
- Activities! Look for a weekly club you can join. Do you play a sport? Find a league. Volunteer somewhere. Do something regularly where you can meet people and practice your French.
Amuse-toi!
posted by ORthey at 7:50 PM on June 27, 2010
- You appear to know this, but simply being immersed in a culture won't do anything for your language. On my Russian study abroad program, a few people barely improved their Russian over several months because they were not pro-active. Seek out conversation, talk to people, look for opportunities to flex your French muscle.
- I carried a small notebook with me and jotted down stuff all the time. Words I saw on signs, expressions I overheard people say, etc. I would look it all up that night in my dictionary and try to memorize them.
- Activities! Look for a weekly club you can join. Do you play a sport? Find a league. Volunteer somewhere. Do something regularly where you can meet people and practice your French.
Amuse-toi!
posted by ORthey at 7:50 PM on June 27, 2010
You need to be strategic. In 1999 I returned to Japan after a short stint in Canada, and affter living here (Japan) for about 5 years. I hadn't really done any formal studies in the language, but knew most intermediate grammatical patterns, and could read and write at a basic level.
I was working in a school, and several of the teachers joked that I spoke like an elementary school boy. It was somewhat humiliating, so I resolved to improve my Japanese.
I bought an electronic dictionary (helpful when studying Chinese characters) and immediately immersed myself in my daily world.
The teacher's room produces wads and wads of handouts and paper - everything from monthly schedules and lesson plans to fire drill procedures. I just started reading and deciphering. I eventually accumulated about 20 notebooks of vocabulary, and I gradually started to understand the professional-level Japanese I heard each day.
For structure, I started studying for the Japanese Proficiency Exam. There are different levels, and a variety of textbooks for each level, some focusing on reading comprehension, some on vocab, and some on grammar. They helped me develop a study plan with benchmarks and goals.
I also started reading the newspaper and watching television.
I cut out stories that interest me (I'm originally a social studies teacher, so basically anything about economics, geography, politics and history was interesting), and then taped television news programs in the evening. That way, I could learn the vocab during the day by reading the newspaper, and could then decipher the news in the evening.
Most of all, I had lots of free time. In 2000-2001, I spend probably about 6 hours a day studying - my job was very easy, and I only had about 3 hours of work a day. I studied in the evenings, and I studied on the weekend. I studied probably about 10 hours a day during the summer of 2000 - it was too hot to go outside.
Later, I got a job where I needed to be able to speak polite or honorific Japanese, so I took lessons, and then was able to "practice" as part of my job.
But you need to be strategic. You need to set realistic goals, and measure your success.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:02 PM on June 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
I was working in a school, and several of the teachers joked that I spoke like an elementary school boy. It was somewhat humiliating, so I resolved to improve my Japanese.
I bought an electronic dictionary (helpful when studying Chinese characters) and immediately immersed myself in my daily world.
The teacher's room produces wads and wads of handouts and paper - everything from monthly schedules and lesson plans to fire drill procedures. I just started reading and deciphering. I eventually accumulated about 20 notebooks of vocabulary, and I gradually started to understand the professional-level Japanese I heard each day.
For structure, I started studying for the Japanese Proficiency Exam. There are different levels, and a variety of textbooks for each level, some focusing on reading comprehension, some on vocab, and some on grammar. They helped me develop a study plan with benchmarks and goals.
I also started reading the newspaper and watching television.
I cut out stories that interest me (I'm originally a social studies teacher, so basically anything about economics, geography, politics and history was interesting), and then taped television news programs in the evening. That way, I could learn the vocab during the day by reading the newspaper, and could then decipher the news in the evening.
Most of all, I had lots of free time. In 2000-2001, I spend probably about 6 hours a day studying - my job was very easy, and I only had about 3 hours of work a day. I studied in the evenings, and I studied on the weekend. I studied probably about 10 hours a day during the summer of 2000 - it was too hot to go outside.
Later, I got a job where I needed to be able to speak polite or honorific Japanese, so I took lessons, and then was able to "practice" as part of my job.
But you need to be strategic. You need to set realistic goals, and measure your success.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:02 PM on June 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Pay attention and ask questions.
I learned a fair bit of Egyptian Arabic while I was living there with no training by simply asking people for vocabulary or what words meant that I didn't understand. Obviously it's not always appropriate but if you're in a conversation with someone friendly there probably going to be happy to help you learn their language. For those that want to practice their English, let them - that doesn't mean that you need to stop speaking in French. My Arabic friends and I have many conversations in which we are speaking different languages.
And don't underestimate the benefits (or entertainment value) of eavesdropping. Now that I am home especially, I listen in whenever I hear an Arabic conversation just to see what I can understand.
Most importantly, don't tune out. When understanding takes work all the time, it's really easy to stop listening to what you hear around you. I've moved overseas to countries where the language was unfamiliar on two occasions, both for at least a year. Both times, in the beginning, I stopped listening because it was frustrating. The first time I never really tuned back in, and left after one year knowing little of the language. The second time I corrected my behaviour and ended up picking up a lot just from paying attention.
posted by scrute at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2010
I learned a fair bit of Egyptian Arabic while I was living there with no training by simply asking people for vocabulary or what words meant that I didn't understand. Obviously it's not always appropriate but if you're in a conversation with someone friendly there probably going to be happy to help you learn their language. For those that want to practice their English, let them - that doesn't mean that you need to stop speaking in French. My Arabic friends and I have many conversations in which we are speaking different languages.
And don't underestimate the benefits (or entertainment value) of eavesdropping. Now that I am home especially, I listen in whenever I hear an Arabic conversation just to see what I can understand.
Most importantly, don't tune out. When understanding takes work all the time, it's really easy to stop listening to what you hear around you. I've moved overseas to countries where the language was unfamiliar on two occasions, both for at least a year. Both times, in the beginning, I stopped listening because it was frustrating. The first time I never really tuned back in, and left after one year knowing little of the language. The second time I corrected my behaviour and ended up picking up a lot just from paying attention.
posted by scrute at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2010
I think it's great that you're working your way through a novel. Reading with a dictionary close to hand is such a great way to improve your vocabulary. I was in a situation similar to yours once (landed in Germany after two years of mediocre high school German) and reading was a tremendous help to me. I looked up every unfamiliar word and I wrote a brief translation down in a notebook. So, so tedious at first, but so rewarding to read page 200 or whatever and finally not have to look anything up!
Getting in the habit of reading the newspaper is really good too. It will provide you with lots of everyday vocab you didn't even know you were missing. Plus, if you're up on current events you can eavesdrop on conversations discussing them and learn a lot from listening to other people to speak. Sounds creepy, but hey, there's no substitute for listening to a native speaker talk.
Another thing that helps: you mention that sometimes you give up on trying to speak to someone in French because you can't figure out how to say what you want. It's great to make a mental note of that situation and then go look up how to say it. For example, for some reason, when I tried to tell stories about things that happened in my day in Germany, it was super awkward because I didn't really know all of the words for setting things down or slipping on some ice or knocking over a lamp... basically I was really weak when it came to describing motion and spatial relationships. I think I eventually sat down with my host sister, whose English was terrific, and just had her translate those sorts of expressions for me. If you can identify those odd points of weakness that crop up, and maybe sit down with someone who can help you translate those thoughts that you can't express, you will learn a lot.
posted by mandanza at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2010
Getting in the habit of reading the newspaper is really good too. It will provide you with lots of everyday vocab you didn't even know you were missing. Plus, if you're up on current events you can eavesdrop on conversations discussing them and learn a lot from listening to other people to speak. Sounds creepy, but hey, there's no substitute for listening to a native speaker talk.
Another thing that helps: you mention that sometimes you give up on trying to speak to someone in French because you can't figure out how to say what you want. It's great to make a mental note of that situation and then go look up how to say it. For example, for some reason, when I tried to tell stories about things that happened in my day in Germany, it was super awkward because I didn't really know all of the words for setting things down or slipping on some ice or knocking over a lamp... basically I was really weak when it came to describing motion and spatial relationships. I think I eventually sat down with my host sister, whose English was terrific, and just had her translate those sorts of expressions for me. If you can identify those odd points of weakness that crop up, and maybe sit down with someone who can help you translate those thoughts that you can't express, you will learn a lot.
posted by mandanza at 8:39 PM on June 27, 2010
In Montreal, most store clerks, etc, will be bilingual and immediately switch to English if they detect that your native language isn't French (and Quebecois French, at that, much to the chagrin of some visiting French French people I met once), which makes it hard to get practice in. It's not so much that they want to practice as that the assumption is that if you're not French, you must prefer to speak English and that it'll be faster and easier.
You can continue speaking French to them and some of them will switch back or you can explain that you're trying to learn better French and most of them will switch back. It may not be worth it to force the issue in a depanneur where the conversation is only going to be 3 sentences long anyway, but for longer transactions, it might be worth it, and you might get some additional 'oh, where are you from? how long are you here?' type practice, as well.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:50 PM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
You can continue speaking French to them and some of them will switch back or you can explain that you're trying to learn better French and most of them will switch back. It may not be worth it to force the issue in a depanneur where the conversation is only going to be 3 sentences long anyway, but for longer transactions, it might be worth it, and you might get some additional 'oh, where are you from? how long are you here?' type practice, as well.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:50 PM on June 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Reading a novel if it's way over your head is not generally considered a good way to improve your abilities, based on the research (individual results, like mandaza's, may vary). Generally speaking, it's better to choose something that's pretty close to your level, so that you don't have to constantly interrupt the flow of reading to look things up. Mark the words that you want to look up and come back when your session is done, and just read a lot at an easy level (even if this means kids' books or graded readers) and pick up vocabulary and grammar that way, instead of struggling through and translating things. You can keep doing that when you come back, too.
Eavesdropping inconspicuously is really not a bad idea. :)
See what there is on meetup.com that might be useful.
Good luck!
(I don't teach French; I teach English to non-native speakers and studied language acquisition as part of my master's degree.)
posted by wintersweet at 9:16 PM on June 27, 2010
Eavesdropping inconspicuously is really not a bad idea. :)
See what there is on meetup.com that might be useful.
Good luck!
(I don't teach French; I teach English to non-native speakers and studied language acquisition as part of my master's degree.)
posted by wintersweet at 9:16 PM on June 27, 2010
Best answer: I learned English in about 6 months by being suddenly immersed in it. Echoing what other people say: keep talking what you do know, read and translate, watch movies in French (at first with subtitles, then without). If you have a helpful French speaking person who can gently correct your grammar and tell you what you're pointing out is called in French, that would obviously help you lots.
posted by cobain_angel at 9:26 PM on June 27, 2010
posted by cobain_angel at 9:26 PM on June 27, 2010
three things that work for me:
1) take a course. it seems kinda obvious but skimming through the above answers i didn't see anyone mention it. i was in thailand on and off for about a month at a time a few years back, and every time i went back i'd sign up for some kind of course. it really helped a lot! same with my indonesian and portuguese. some people do well learning on their own but personally i find i learn much more quickly with some sort of structure/enforced study time...
2) on my last 2 computerphones (a windows ce phone before and now an iphone) i was able to buy little pocket dictionaries for them. these are amazingly useful, the one i use has a pretty quick interface and enough words in it to make it useful (lingvosoft is the company that makes my favorite dictionaries, they have a HUGE selection of languages to choose from, including obscure choices like portuguese->japanese etc) i use this pretty much every day when someone gets stuck on a single word in conversation and no one around can translate it.
3) love and sex is a GREAT motivator to practice your language skills. have an affair with someone who only speaks french!
posted by messiahwannabe at 10:17 PM on June 27, 2010
1) take a course. it seems kinda obvious but skimming through the above answers i didn't see anyone mention it. i was in thailand on and off for about a month at a time a few years back, and every time i went back i'd sign up for some kind of course. it really helped a lot! same with my indonesian and portuguese. some people do well learning on their own but personally i find i learn much more quickly with some sort of structure/enforced study time...
2) on my last 2 computerphones (a windows ce phone before and now an iphone) i was able to buy little pocket dictionaries for them. these are amazingly useful, the one i use has a pretty quick interface and enough words in it to make it useful (lingvosoft is the company that makes my favorite dictionaries, they have a HUGE selection of languages to choose from, including obscure choices like portuguese->japanese etc) i use this pretty much every day when someone gets stuck on a single word in conversation and no one around can translate it.
3) love and sex is a GREAT motivator to practice your language skills. have an affair with someone who only speaks french!
posted by messiahwannabe at 10:17 PM on June 27, 2010
It may seem silly, but wikipedia is your friend: you can look stuff up and learn about your new surroundings. The language level will usually be easier than a novel or a movie.
Is there a subject that really interests you? You might try finding some French magazines or books on it, or a documentary. The neat thing about documentary sources is that you can use a parallel text without relying on a translation. For instance, you could read a French wikipedia (or Universalis) article about something, and then try to find out what word means by using the article from another encyclopedia (e.g. Encarta).
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 12:57 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Is there a subject that really interests you? You might try finding some French magazines or books on it, or a documentary. The neat thing about documentary sources is that you can use a parallel text without relying on a translation. For instance, you could read a French wikipedia (or Universalis) article about something, and then try to find out what word means by using the article from another encyclopedia (e.g. Encarta).
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 12:57 AM on June 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've had some experience both learning foreign languages by immersion (as a Peace Corps volunteer) and I also do research in language learning. I nth the advice to listen actively to television to tune your ear, and also to read novels that are just above your level. Some other ideas that nobody has suggested yet:
1. Focus at first on learning the high-frequency things. Both the really common vocabulary (especially the common verbs), but also common, high-frequency constructions (for instance, in English, simply having a mastery of "I am verb-ing" and "I was verb-ing" can get you pretty far in terms of being able to say things without stumbling all over yourself, and let you slowly branch out to using more complex constructions). I found I wasted a lot of time doing things like memorizing all of the terms for furniture, say, even things I would probably not encounter much, but not knowing words or phrases that were used a lot more commonly.
2. This sounds weird, but I found it really helpful to talk to small children (ages 3-5). There are several benefits of this. One is that they may be at about the same language level as you are (choose age of child to reflect this) and thus you lose a lot of self-consciousness when you're talking with them, and are willing to try things. The other is that they're good at pointing out errors, because they don't always have the social skills to just blip over them as long as they get the idea... they will say "why did you say that funny?" and you can figure out the right way to do it. The final good aspect of talking to kids is that they say things that are easier to understand than adults -- the constructions and vocabulary are not as complex, so you can keep up better and solidify your understanding.
3. When you listen to the TV, practice repeating the things they say as closely as possible. This will really help with your accent and productive fluency (i.e.: your tongue). I think it will probably even help you hear the sounds, too, because you'll be reinforcing that learning and processing the sounds more in depth.
posted by forza at 1:42 AM on June 28, 2010
1. Focus at first on learning the high-frequency things. Both the really common vocabulary (especially the common verbs), but also common, high-frequency constructions (for instance, in English, simply having a mastery of "I am verb-ing" and "I was verb-ing" can get you pretty far in terms of being able to say things without stumbling all over yourself, and let you slowly branch out to using more complex constructions). I found I wasted a lot of time doing things like memorizing all of the terms for furniture, say, even things I would probably not encounter much, but not knowing words or phrases that were used a lot more commonly.
2. This sounds weird, but I found it really helpful to talk to small children (ages 3-5). There are several benefits of this. One is that they may be at about the same language level as you are (choose age of child to reflect this) and thus you lose a lot of self-consciousness when you're talking with them, and are willing to try things. The other is that they're good at pointing out errors, because they don't always have the social skills to just blip over them as long as they get the idea... they will say "why did you say that funny?" and you can figure out the right way to do it. The final good aspect of talking to kids is that they say things that are easier to understand than adults -- the constructions and vocabulary are not as complex, so you can keep up better and solidify your understanding.
3. When you listen to the TV, practice repeating the things they say as closely as possible. This will really help with your accent and productive fluency (i.e.: your tongue). I think it will probably even help you hear the sounds, too, because you'll be reinforcing that learning and processing the sounds more in depth.
posted by forza at 1:42 AM on June 28, 2010
Try to watch two or three French movies a week. Netflix has a ton of them on instant play, or see what the Montreal libraries has. While you're there, go to the children's section of the library and take out French children's books. Petit Nicolas books are written in Parisian French, but they are so much fun. Their style reinforces everyday French. Listen to at least one podcast a day in French. There are lots of free ones on the internet. Read a couple articles a day in one of the French Canadian newspapers, preferably crime stories to stay motivated. I have a friend with your exact background who did Plimseur DVDs every day and got pretty good with her French. However, since you're there such a short time, you might have a nicer experience with entertaining movies, podcasts, kiddie books, etc. Forza's suggestion of talking to French children is great! Also check out if there are any Meetup.com French/English conversations groups in Montreal.
posted by Elsie at 6:16 AM on June 28, 2010
posted by Elsie at 6:16 AM on June 28, 2010
What's happened to me is that it takes about 5 to 7 days before my brain has knocked the rust off my high school French. I can generate fairly well, but receptive takes a bit to come on line. Sure, I ended up with a dessert once that I didn't intend on getting, but no big deal. Speak without fear, put yourself into interaction if that's in your personality, ask questions, ask for feedback. My oldest brother worked at IRCAM for a year and he said that he would just speak quickly, make everything masculine and present tense. I start that way and then find that the gender just happens magically and more complicated tenses happen with more complicated interactions.
The more you interact, the better you will get.
posted by plinth at 6:57 AM on June 28, 2010
The more you interact, the better you will get.
posted by plinth at 6:57 AM on June 28, 2010
I have found that I get the best results when combining grammar / vocabulary in a classroom/tutoring environment with everyday spoken language. For example, when I was living in Turin, I was working 5 days a week in an office where Italian was the main language and not improving all that much, despite 2 years of college Italian. I started going to a tutor 2 days a week, for a grammar refresher, and then using the stuff she taught me in the office every day. Once I was having my formal study reinforced by usage, and had the opportunity to ask the tutor about things I had (mis)understood at work, my skils improved very quickly.
posted by charlesv at 7:45 AM on June 28, 2010
posted by charlesv at 7:45 AM on June 28, 2010
IMO, Montreal does not count for immersion. You need to find some Francophones that are willing to help you practice. It is natural for Anglos and Francophones to segregate themselves, so it is easy to find yourself just hanging out with other new arrivals and native English speakers. Additionally, most Montrealers are perfectly bilingual so even your friends that speak perfect French will speak English in mixed groups and with you out of convenience.
I agree with everyone that you need to be proactive. If you have done immersion, you may not need a class, what you will need help with is understanding accents and vernacular and practice using the language. Those could both be achieved by finding a meet-up or a making some good French speaking friends (or lovers!) that are willing to help.
posted by Gor-ella at 8:02 AM on June 28, 2010
I agree with everyone that you need to be proactive. If you have done immersion, you may not need a class, what you will need help with is understanding accents and vernacular and practice using the language. Those could both be achieved by finding a meet-up or a making some good French speaking friends (or lovers!) that are willing to help.
posted by Gor-ella at 8:02 AM on June 28, 2010
One small tip about vocab: Even if you don't know a specific word, just speak around it instead of resorting to English. For example, if you can't say "doorknob" say "the thing that you use to open the door". Chances are the person will understand what you are trying to get at and then they can give you the definition, which you'll probably remember since you just spent the extra effort to define it in French.
posted by joeyjoejoejr at 10:48 AM on June 28, 2010
posted by joeyjoejoejr at 10:48 AM on June 28, 2010
I went for a 6 month exchange to France last year after studying french part time for 3 years at uni, when i got there I couldnt even get a taxi driver to understand where i wanted to go and any native french speakers just sounded like a whirlwind of noise to me. I was lucky in that I was staying in an apartment with some native french people who tried to help me as much as i could, but what really got me improving was that i joined the learn french program run by the uni for foreigners, I made a heap of friends, because it was in europe many of them spoke english as a second language anyway so it was easier for us to speak in French than not. In Montreal the demographic might be quite different but i find it's much easier to express yourself if you're around other people who are learning as well, errors don't seem like such a big deal and they speak slower than natives so you can develop an ear for the language. Don't worry about it though; if you keep using french where you can and get some friends who'll speak french with you (especially if you have the opportunity at work to do it)then you'll pick it up in no time. After 6 months I was practically fluent, could speak with anyone and i even started thinking in french by the end
posted by parryb at 1:30 PM on June 28, 2010
posted by parryb at 1:30 PM on June 28, 2010
I came to the USA not speaking a word of English when I was 27 years old. I was teaching Spanish and my students wanted to practice their Spanish with me, so I had to find other ways to learn English. I did take an Intensive Course, which was very helpful, but I needed more as I wanted to enroll in the university, so I listened to audiobooks. I had the written text while I listened to the audio. This way I could learn new words and pronunciation simultaneously.
Also, listening to the news was helpful. A Dictionary of idioms and sayings is indispensable. Bilingual blogs can be a good way to practice. Learning a new language is an adventure, so enjoy the ride.
If you care to learn Spanish, check my bilingual blog http://dupedyestafada.squarespace.com/ and practice while learning the mores and idiomatic expressions of Mexico.
posted by dupedyestafada at 1:22 PM on June 29, 2010
Also, listening to the news was helpful. A Dictionary of idioms and sayings is indispensable. Bilingual blogs can be a good way to practice. Learning a new language is an adventure, so enjoy the ride.
If you care to learn Spanish, check my bilingual blog http://dupedyestafada.squarespace.com/ and practice while learning the mores and idiomatic expressions of Mexico.
posted by dupedyestafada at 1:22 PM on June 29, 2010
Response by poster: Merci, ça m'aide beaucoup! All good answers, but particularly helpful is the one about keeping a notebook of new words and phrases, that will be put to good use. Thank you for all the tips! Fortunately my french is good enough that my francophone colleagues are more than happy to stick to it when they converse with me, I think this will go well.
Amtho, translating graphic novels is a great suggestion - friends of mine did that in Japanese, and they said it was great for flexing the grammar skills. And I've got someone at home who would actually love to get a gift like that.
Thanks again!
posted by lizbunny at 2:15 PM on June 29, 2010
Amtho, translating graphic novels is a great suggestion - friends of mine did that in Japanese, and they said it was great for flexing the grammar skills. And I've got someone at home who would actually love to get a gift like that.
Thanks again!
posted by lizbunny at 2:15 PM on June 29, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by amtho at 7:31 PM on June 27, 2010