When, during relationship process, to mention/discuss my Big Family Secret?
June 12, 2010 4:48 PM Subscribe
When, during relationship process, to mention/discuss my Big Family Secret?
I am a very shy dater who is trying to get out more, and one of the conversational trip-up spots for me involve two biggish family secret type things I am not sure when to mention. Neither of them is first date material, obviously, and one of them would never come up casually. But both of them are things a long-term partner would want to know, and at some point would be angry that you hadn't told them sooner. I am not sure what exactly that point is...
The first issue involves a close relative (member of the immediate family) who is transgendered and began life as a different gender than that which they now present. This is further complicated because their partner is a gender-bender who does not identify as either gender, and both this person and others who speak of them will interchangeably use either gender to refer to him/her.
The second issue involves a member of the immediate family who is deceased, and the 'party line' on how it happened is not what actually occurred (and what actually occurred is very soap opera---think VC Andrews novel, and you'd be close). This is not something that would casually come up probably ever, but it feels like something you would eventually tell a person you share your life with. I just would hate to do so and have them react badly for not telling them sooner.
I am a very shy dater who is trying to get out more, and one of the conversational trip-up spots for me involve two biggish family secret type things I am not sure when to mention. Neither of them is first date material, obviously, and one of them would never come up casually. But both of them are things a long-term partner would want to know, and at some point would be angry that you hadn't told them sooner. I am not sure what exactly that point is...
The first issue involves a close relative (member of the immediate family) who is transgendered and began life as a different gender than that which they now present. This is further complicated because their partner is a gender-bender who does not identify as either gender, and both this person and others who speak of them will interchangeably use either gender to refer to him/her.
The second issue involves a member of the immediate family who is deceased, and the 'party line' on how it happened is not what actually occurred (and what actually occurred is very soap opera---think VC Andrews novel, and you'd be close). This is not something that would casually come up probably ever, but it feels like something you would eventually tell a person you share your life with. I just would hate to do so and have them react badly for not telling them sooner.
The first one, I don't really see it being an issue. I've never sat any SO down and told them the details of all my relatives, this is just another detail. If it eventually comes up in conversation somehow, then it just comes out. If not, no biggie. Anyone who would react negatively to me not telling them this detail is not someone I would want to date, IMO. Actually, I could say the same exact thing about the second issue as well.
If it really bothers you to hold on to your "secrets," then you could probably sit someone down and tell them after you've known them for a while. After a few months in maybe? Again, if someone gets all weird or angry about you not revealing these details right away, it is not someone you want to date.
There is a detail about my SO which he has never told me (and he doesn't know that I know) that I found out inadvertently which would fall in line with your second issue. We've been together for a few years and I don't hold any ill will toward the fact that he hasn't told me. If he wants to, he will and at the time he deems appropriate. I understand it's a very personal and hard issue to deal with.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 4:58 PM on June 12, 2010
If it really bothers you to hold on to your "secrets," then you could probably sit someone down and tell them after you've known them for a while. After a few months in maybe? Again, if someone gets all weird or angry about you not revealing these details right away, it is not someone you want to date.
There is a detail about my SO which he has never told me (and he doesn't know that I know) that I found out inadvertently which would fall in line with your second issue. We've been together for a few years and I don't hold any ill will toward the fact that he hasn't told me. If he wants to, he will and at the time he deems appropriate. I understand it's a very personal and hard issue to deal with.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 4:58 PM on June 12, 2010
I recommend that you wait until you're reasonably secure about the relationship but not committed yet (if either of these things is likely to be a deal-breaker when deciding to commit).
When the first thing comes up casually in conversation, just say something light like, oh, yeah my brother's partner is intersexed and isn't male or female and we just use either pronoun. Actually my brother is transgendered so when I was 9 I had to get used to saying "he" instead of "she". Then move on with the conversation as though it's not a big deal.
As for the second, apparently darker issue, this is where I stop giving you my own feeble advice and recommend that you get the book "There's Something I Have To Tell You" which deals with difficult revelations such as these.
posted by tel3path at 5:00 PM on June 12, 2010
When the first thing comes up casually in conversation, just say something light like, oh, yeah my brother's partner is intersexed and isn't male or female and we just use either pronoun. Actually my brother is transgendered so when I was 9 I had to get used to saying "he" instead of "she". Then move on with the conversation as though it's not a big deal.
As for the second, apparently darker issue, this is where I stop giving you my own feeble advice and recommend that you get the book "There's Something I Have To Tell You" which deals with difficult revelations such as these.
posted by tel3path at 5:00 PM on June 12, 2010
I don't see how anyone would have the right to fell "angry" about not being told your family secrets (unless you're dating some kind of religious conservative who'll be running for public office and might see it as a real scandal).
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Completely agree with A Terrible Llama. Just wanted to add - it may be your family but don't for a second feel that it reflects on you, or that people will judge you by these things.
posted by nothing too obvious at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2010
posted by nothing too obvious at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2010
The transgendered relative is basically a non-issue. Calling that "a family secret" is a little dramatic and condescending to the relative. That will come up naturally over after a couple of dates as you discuss your family in an effort to get to know each other deeply. Nothing to be ashamed of.
I really can't see how a death in your immediate family wouldn't come up naturally in conversation. At some point, you will talk about people in your respective families who have died, and that's when you'll discuss this person and how they died. The 'party line' thing seems weird to me, but not all families are like mine I guess.
No one who cares about you will react negatively to either of these things.
posted by archivist at 5:03 PM on June 12, 2010 [15 favorites]
I really can't see how a death in your immediate family wouldn't come up naturally in conversation. At some point, you will talk about people in your respective families who have died, and that's when you'll discuss this person and how they died. The 'party line' thing seems weird to me, but not all families are like mine I guess.
No one who cares about you will react negatively to either of these things.
posted by archivist at 5:03 PM on June 12, 2010 [15 favorites]
I would say that since these skeletons in the closet are more to do with your family and less to do with you, waiting to say something is OK. Everyone's family has weird skeletons in the closet, so when you find someone special, share these things when you've been with them a while and feel comfortable (or when you are going to a family function where these things might come up). In my mind, a potential partner has an absolute right to know about three things: medical history (if it could affect them), children, and past marriages. Everything else is just wrapped up in the drama and comedy of living life and can be shared or not shared as occasion or desire dictate.
posted by melangell at 5:03 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by melangell at 5:03 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
The first issue involves a close relative (member of the immediate family) who is transgendered
That's not a big family secret, that's just a big family.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2010 [29 favorites]
That's not a big family secret, that's just a big family.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2010 [29 favorites]
Neither of these things seem like something a potential SO could reasonably get angry with you for not talking about.
As far as the first one, it isn't really Big Family Secret material. If your SO is going to meet the person, you could mention, "Hey, Jane is transgendered so you might hear people call her Joe or say 'he' ... it can be a bit confusing, just remember they're talking about the same person."
The second one, I can't imagine anyone becoming angry because you were reticent about the events of a death. Now, if you actually lie to them by telling them the 'party line,' that would be cause for concern. Otherwise, any time it comes up naturally in conversation and you feel like talking about it, you can tell it. But if it doesn't or you just really don't want to talk about it, there's nothing odd (I don't think) about not doing so. A lot of us a very private about tragedy and grief, even with those we're closest to.
posted by frobozz at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
As far as the first one, it isn't really Big Family Secret material. If your SO is going to meet the person, you could mention, "Hey, Jane is transgendered so you might hear people call her Joe or say 'he' ... it can be a bit confusing, just remember they're talking about the same person."
The second one, I can't imagine anyone becoming angry because you were reticent about the events of a death. Now, if you actually lie to them by telling them the 'party line,' that would be cause for concern. Otherwise, any time it comes up naturally in conversation and you feel like talking about it, you can tell it. But if it doesn't or you just really don't want to talk about it, there's nothing odd (I don't think) about not doing so. A lot of us a very private about tragedy and grief, even with those we're closest to.
posted by frobozz at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Regarding the transgendered relative, unless it comes up in casual conversation, the only time I see that it would be necessary to tell your SO about them is right before a dinner party or family gathering as a heads-up and quick rundown of which pronouns to use.
posted by griphus at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
These things will have nearly zero impact on your hypothetical/future S.O. At most, he or she will want to know these things before you take him or her home to meet your family so as to avoid saying or doing the wrong thing. So I'd tell the person before she or he meets any of your family.
But otherwise... you're really worrying too much about this. Big Secrets that you need to reveal early on are generally things that will affect the person directly, such as if you were transgendered or had five children and are a recovering gambler and coke addict and/or fresh are out on parole. This other stuff? It's just interesting trivia, really. And personally, I always think it's fun when someone I'm dating has a colourful family.
posted by orange swan at 5:07 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
But otherwise... you're really worrying too much about this. Big Secrets that you need to reveal early on are generally things that will affect the person directly, such as if you were transgendered or had five children and are a recovering gambler and coke addict and/or fresh are out on parole. This other stuff? It's just interesting trivia, really. And personally, I always think it's fun when someone I'm dating has a colourful family.
posted by orange swan at 5:07 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
I also agree that the transgendered relative shouldn't be considered some weird secret. Is the sexual orientation of your straight relatives a secret too? Why is it any different? I also want to second this:
Regarding the transgendered relative, unless it comes up in casual conversation, the only time I see that it would be necessary to tell your SO about them is right before a dinner party or family gathering as a heads-up and quick rundown of which pronouns to use.
and this:
Calling that "a family secret" is a little dramatic and condescending to the relative.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 5:11 PM on June 12, 2010
Regarding the transgendered relative, unless it comes up in casual conversation, the only time I see that it would be necessary to tell your SO about them is right before a dinner party or family gathering as a heads-up and quick rundown of which pronouns to use.
and this:
Calling that "a family secret" is a little dramatic and condescending to the relative.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 5:11 PM on June 12, 2010
When, during relationship process, to mention/discuss my Big Family Secret?
[...]
The first issue involves a close relative (member of the immediate family) who is transgendered and began life as a different gender than that which they now present.
In my view this isn't some big controversial secret; I certainly don't expect my dates to gossip about their relatives' sex habits behind their backs so I don't think there's any hurry to mention this, other than that.
I would suggest you mention this in outline before your partner meets this person in person, though, if only because I'd want to know at least enough not to offend anyone.
The second issue involves a member of the immediate family who is deceased, and the 'party line' on how it happened is not what actually occurred (and what actually occurred is very soap opera---think VC Andrews novel, and you'd be close).
I think you have to be in a relationship for a fairly long time before the subject of the details of deaths of close relatives comes up.
posted by Mike1024 at 5:11 PM on June 12, 2010
[...]
The first issue involves a close relative (member of the immediate family) who is transgendered and began life as a different gender than that which they now present.
In my view this isn't some big controversial secret; I certainly don't expect my dates to gossip about their relatives' sex habits behind their backs so I don't think there's any hurry to mention this, other than that.
I would suggest you mention this in outline before your partner meets this person in person, though, if only because I'd want to know at least enough not to offend anyone.
The second issue involves a member of the immediate family who is deceased, and the 'party line' on how it happened is not what actually occurred (and what actually occurred is very soap opera---think VC Andrews novel, and you'd be close).
I think you have to be in a relationship for a fairly long time before the subject of the details of deaths of close relatives comes up.
posted by Mike1024 at 5:11 PM on June 12, 2010
I don't mean this snarkily: I don't understand. OK, so someone in your family is TG, and someone else... killed themselves? After sleeping with their sister? I mean, that's interesting but it isn't horrifying or anything.
I think this sort of thing is way more common than you realise. Few people have Hallmark families. My uncle hated my grandparents so much he drove 300 miles in the middle of the night just to kill himself in their library. I tell that story over cocktails. It's only a secret if you keep it hidden, and as a story, that one is interesting and has good narrative arc.
I tell people my dad is gay because, well, he is but also because the more upfront I am about it, the fewer people who are homophobic I have to put up with. I'm assuming you don't want to be around people who don't like TG folk, so again, I see no reason not to mention it when it comes up.
There is nothing to be ashamed or embarassed about here - first because they are not your stories and any judgements about them are not judgements of you, and second because the tales you have to relate are probably less odd than you assume them to be and anyone who would make icky judgements about them are probably not fantastic people anyway.
NO family is normal. For reals.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:13 PM on June 12, 2010 [16 favorites]
I think this sort of thing is way more common than you realise. Few people have Hallmark families. My uncle hated my grandparents so much he drove 300 miles in the middle of the night just to kill himself in their library. I tell that story over cocktails. It's only a secret if you keep it hidden, and as a story, that one is interesting and has good narrative arc.
I tell people my dad is gay because, well, he is but also because the more upfront I am about it, the fewer people who are homophobic I have to put up with. I'm assuming you don't want to be around people who don't like TG folk, so again, I see no reason not to mention it when it comes up.
There is nothing to be ashamed or embarassed about here - first because they are not your stories and any judgements about them are not judgements of you, and second because the tales you have to relate are probably less odd than you assume them to be and anyone who would make icky judgements about them are probably not fantastic people anyway.
NO family is normal. For reals.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:13 PM on June 12, 2010 [16 favorites]
For me, the only one of those secrets I want an eventual explicit heads up about would be the partner of the family member who is referred to with both male and female pronouns at some point before I was going to meet that person or other relatives who might engage in conversation about that person. And that would only be so that I could expect it and so that I'd know how to navigate the conversation without causing any awkwardness or offense.
As to the rest of it? Share it whenever it feels right in the context, but it's nothing a SO has the right to get angry about for you not disclosing by date #7 or whatever.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:13 PM on June 12, 2010
As to the rest of it? Share it whenever it feels right in the context, but it's nothing a SO has the right to get angry about for you not disclosing by date #7 or whatever.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:13 PM on June 12, 2010
You can't pick your relatives, but you can pick your friends. Anyone who thinks this has anything to do with you is wrong, we all have some strange or difficult to deal with family. Wait until it seems natural to bring it up, and if your date has problems with it, you get to choose if you'd like to continue dating them or not. Good luck!
posted by cestmoi15 at 5:14 PM on June 12, 2010
posted by cestmoi15 at 5:14 PM on June 12, 2010
I wouldn't bring either of these things up on any date, first, second, tenth or otherwise. These are the types of things that come out in random discussions after a relationship has been established because a) it's no one's business unless they're likely to be related to the people involved, b) these are not exactly skeletons in the closet, so to speak (they're about your family, not you, and everyone's family has some dark stuff in their past), and c) honestly, no one cares until they're in a long term relationship with you.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 5:15 PM on June 12, 2010
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 5:15 PM on June 12, 2010
My father ostensibly died of a heart attack (45 years ago), but there have been some intimations that this may be a cover-up for suicide -- nobody knows for sure. I have neither hidden this nor ever made a point of telling a signif about it. If we were talking about dead relatives or childhood traumas or something, it might come up naturally in conversation, but most people other than you really don't care about this stuff.
Anybody who would consider either of these "secrets" a dealbreaker in a relationship with you is a giant asshole you don't need to be involved with.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:18 PM on June 12, 2010
Anybody who would consider either of these "secrets" a dealbreaker in a relationship with you is a giant asshole you don't need to be involved with.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:18 PM on June 12, 2010
Unless it's pertinent to the conversation or the situation (e.g., meeting said TG person or entering some family conversation about the deceased,) I'd say there's no reason to bring it up on a date.
When my wife and I got engaged there was a distinct "this is the stuff I haven't brought up, but you should know if we're going to be together for awhile" conversation, and we spilled our guts and it was a good experience. At that point we both knew we had compatible lifestyles and value systems and while we were both surprised by what we didn't know, neither was shocked or upset.
If you're at the point where you're looking at a long-term partnership, yeah full disclosure should be made.
If you're dating? Those are just esoteric family details. There's no need to hide or volunteer them.
posted by EmptyK at 5:44 PM on June 12, 2010
When my wife and I got engaged there was a distinct "this is the stuff I haven't brought up, but you should know if we're going to be together for awhile" conversation, and we spilled our guts and it was a good experience. At that point we both knew we had compatible lifestyles and value systems and while we were both surprised by what we didn't know, neither was shocked or upset.
If you're at the point where you're looking at a long-term partnership, yeah full disclosure should be made.
If you're dating? Those are just esoteric family details. There's no need to hide or volunteer them.
posted by EmptyK at 5:44 PM on June 12, 2010
I am going to jump on the bandwagon and agree with everyone here. I in fact have both of these family secrets (maybe we are related!) and I told Mr. Capitalist about them after we'd been dating...I don't know, years I think. Honestly, my relatives sexual orientations/gender identifications are no one's business but their own. One day we were talking about aunts and uncles and I mentioned my aunt who has been married six times and my uncle who is transgender. That was it. As for the second secret, my relative who was molested by another relative killed himself gruesomely years ago. Again, no one's business, it came up in casual discussion about how many cousins we have and where they all were.
Everyone's family has this crap. It would be weird if you sat someone down to tell them this stuff. It is no reflection on you and someone else isn't likely to care. You're stressing about nothing.
posted by supercapitalist at 5:49 PM on June 12, 2010
Everyone's family has this crap. It would be weird if you sat someone down to tell them this stuff. It is no reflection on you and someone else isn't likely to care. You're stressing about nothing.
posted by supercapitalist at 5:49 PM on June 12, 2010
As far as the trans stuff goes, does your relative want people to know hir status? My trannssexual partner would not be happy it I or anyone else thought that disclosing his status was something that had to be done with new people in our lives. He just wants to be that guy I'm married to.
I know it's complicated because your relative's partner is more actively genderqueer. But maybe the right thing to do is leave disclosure up to them? I have friends of ambiguous gender and would never presume to explain them to anyone. If asked, "hey, what's so-and-so's deal," I'm inclined to reply that if so-and-so ever thinks they need more information about hir gender status, ze will let them know.
posted by not that girl at 6:19 PM on June 12, 2010 [7 favorites]
I know it's complicated because your relative's partner is more actively genderqueer. But maybe the right thing to do is leave disclosure up to them? I have friends of ambiguous gender and would never presume to explain them to anyone. If asked, "hey, what's so-and-so's deal," I'm inclined to reply that if so-and-so ever thinks they need more information about hir gender status, ze will let them know.
posted by not that girl at 6:19 PM on June 12, 2010 [7 favorites]
Here's what I do with the conversations about my family drama. I bring up some parts of it that are relevant or may become imminently relevant if I'm comfortable enough in the location and relationship.
If I'm dating someone who reacts poorly to the reason(s) for and circumstances around my getting married at 16, I probably won't be dating him much longer because that's actually one of the less dramatic things that happened in my growing up.
It helps to approach communicating these things with an eye toward 3 things: How do you want the relationship to change (or not change) as a result of this conversation? How do you want to feel about yourself after this conversation? And, what do you want to happen as a result of divulging this information.
And, which of those three questions is most important when considering the topic/request at hand.
Some revelations must be made, even if they may destroy the relationship. Some relationships may be so important to you that witholding the information may be your choice. Sometimes your self esteem will require a particular approach to sharing or concealing information.
The good news is that only you can decide which of these three is your priority, and, your priorities will likely be different for different pieces of information.
(thanks Dialectical Behavior Therapy! However, note that I am not a therapist, counselor, psychologist, or healthcare practitioner of any kind. I have received a lot of benefit from therapy, and am proud to feel more confident about the sharing I choose to do.)
posted by bilabial at 8:07 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
If I'm dating someone who reacts poorly to the reason(s) for and circumstances around my getting married at 16, I probably won't be dating him much longer because that's actually one of the less dramatic things that happened in my growing up.
It helps to approach communicating these things with an eye toward 3 things: How do you want the relationship to change (or not change) as a result of this conversation? How do you want to feel about yourself after this conversation? And, what do you want to happen as a result of divulging this information.
And, which of those three questions is most important when considering the topic/request at hand.
Some revelations must be made, even if they may destroy the relationship. Some relationships may be so important to you that witholding the information may be your choice. Sometimes your self esteem will require a particular approach to sharing or concealing information.
The good news is that only you can decide which of these three is your priority, and, your priorities will likely be different for different pieces of information.
(thanks Dialectical Behavior Therapy! However, note that I am not a therapist, counselor, psychologist, or healthcare practitioner of any kind. I have received a lot of benefit from therapy, and am proud to feel more confident about the sharing I choose to do.)
posted by bilabial at 8:07 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I seriously clicked on the link because I was expecting you to say you came from a long line of serial killers, people with contagious flesh eating diseases, or convicted child molesters.
Either you are dating really sheltered, shallow, and ultra-conservative people, or you are thinking that people really care about things that do not directly effect your relationship and are practically not your business save for blood relation.
But to answer your question- you do it in the natural course of the conversation. You don't sit someone down, you don't stress out every day about telling your significant other. You forget about it, and one day when you have that eventual, "Let's compare our fucked up families!" conversation at 2:00 am, when you've had too much wine. Then you mention these things. No drama, no build up of string instruments in the background, you just say, hey- this is my family, and this is how it is. If they get offended/frightened/creeped out by you because of it, then I suggest moving on to a different relationship.
posted by haplesschild at 8:13 PM on June 12, 2010
Either you are dating really sheltered, shallow, and ultra-conservative people, or you are thinking that people really care about things that do not directly effect your relationship and are practically not your business save for blood relation.
But to answer your question- you do it in the natural course of the conversation. You don't sit someone down, you don't stress out every day about telling your significant other. You forget about it, and one day when you have that eventual, "Let's compare our fucked up families!" conversation at 2:00 am, when you've had too much wine. Then you mention these things. No drama, no build up of string instruments in the background, you just say, hey- this is my family, and this is how it is. If they get offended/frightened/creeped out by you because of it, then I suggest moving on to a different relationship.
posted by haplesschild at 8:13 PM on June 12, 2010
What DarlingBri said. No offense to you at all, because I've met a ton of people who feel similarly to you, but to make you feel better: it always strikes me as really odd when someone thinks they need to keep any of their family stuff secret. Nothing you wrote is shocking in the least, and if anything, stuff like that makes good stories -- not even in a "CAN U BELIEVE HOW CRAZY THIS IS" kind of way, though some things are, but simply for interesting conversation. For example, maybe our uncle's death is one of those crazy stories, but if your transgender family member is okay with you talking about it with other people, that journey is fascinating to talk about in a way that doesn't make it a crazy spectacle or anything. It's a better topic of conversation than most small talk in that in draws on a lot of intellectual and social topics.
About the only issue that's still a bit touchy is maybe incest or child abuse, but not in the sort of way you should be ashamed about even, it can just be difficult for some people to come up with things to say if you were directly involved in it. If it was someone else in the family, no one bats an eye when you bring these things up.
And for what's it worth, people even talk about that stuff sometimes. When I was on the phone with my mom today, she mentioned that when she was talking to five other girls from her office, it came up that all five of them had been sexually abused when they were younger. Most of them didn't get into detail but a few of them were even comfortable explaining by whom, and for how long, that sort of thing.
And the transgender thing, yeah, that's not even something to consider weird, so I'm not even gonna say more about that. So when I talk about "crazy" stuff as I move on, I'm just possibly referring to your odd-death situation and anything you might have forgot to mention -- I'm certainly not your transgender family member.
I mean, off the top of my head, without even digging too deep, here's some "scandalous" stuff from my family:
- Some long-dead member of my family, I wanna say a great-grandfather or maybe a great-uncle, molested a bunch of people in the family.
- One of my uncles was killed by his wife in a trailer fire, and she's recently out of jail.
- Another uncle died of AIDS in the 80s that he claimed to have gotten from a prostitute, but his siblings are pretty sure he gay and didn't want to admit it. (Not because they're prejudiced that AIDS=gay, but for other reasons as well.)
- My dad had drug problems before I was born.
- My dad beat my mom when I was young -- not sure what made him stop but he stopped.
- My dad tried to kill himself when I was a teenager.
- My dad was pretty much nuts in a few ways, and I mean that in the undiagnosed bipolar sense, not just that he was a jerk sometimes. Like psychotic, break-from-reality, hallucinating crazy sometimes -- and he had no access to illegal drugs then (he was confined to the apartment because of health problems the last several years of his life) so it wasn't that. We couldn't be sure if it was medication-induced or just more easily brought about by certain medications though.
- Tons of diagnosed bipolar relatives, most of whom have done some outrageous stuff when having the more psychotic fits of mania.
- Too many relatives to count that are on drugs or have gone to prison.
- My cousin brutally whipped a would-be mugger with a pair of jumper cables and then stole the mugger's wallet. He kept the cash and burnt the stolen credit cards.
- My mom actually believes those shapeshifter reptile-people conspiracy theories, and a whole lot weirder stuff.
- I have ADD, so do a ton of other people in my family.
- My aunt married a guy who used to be a swinger until fairly recently. My mom was all worked up about this at first just because he was marrying her sister and she's definitely not a swinger so she was concerned about infidelity or something, but he's the nicest guy in the world and now we all love him. (Not love him love him, heh.)
Both sides of my family have their share of wild people. Far from keeping it hidden, my mom wants to write a book about it. My cousin was raised by a drug-addicted neglectful mother and has a way of telling stories about her that's absolutely hilarious; since she's not ashamed of it and she had to just accept her mother is messed up she sees the humor in it. My favorite story she's told was when her mom was messed up off up something and fell asleep eating chocolate in bed; the chocolate melted and when she woke up she was ranting about how she had pooped the bed. My cousin, only in middle school at the time, had to convince her she hadn't.
If you can't tell, I'm not big on keeping this stuff secret either. I think the worst thing you can do is come across as if you think it's aberrant: if you seem sensitive about it, then it can make other people uncomfortable when reaching for a response; it can make you seem prissy, like you're inclined to judge other people for having imperfect family members too; it will make you seem naive, or like you think you're a special snowflake, to think that your family situation is unusual in some way.
One of the first things having unconventional family members should teach you is that not only is it entirely common for people to have some insane qualities, but also that someone can have those same qualities and still be a pretty good person overall. Aside from the dead people I never got to meet at the top of my list above, everyone else, even my dad, was/is a decent person in a lot of ways. For one thing, the knowledge that people can do bad things or have unfavorable qualities without it making them a monster too shameful to be discussed translates into my actually not being ashamed of being related to them. When people feel ashamed about mentioning the bad stuff about their family, it makes me wonder if they really do see it in a black and white way where they don't see people for the bigger picture of who they are. I'm not saying you actually do this -- I believe that you're genuinely just concerned about what others will think -- I'm just giving you reasons to not feel ashamed about it. You don't want to give people the impression that you have a childish perspective on good and bad, or that you entirely write people off for lame reasons.
And furthermore, perhaps most importantly, you aren't your relatives. Pretty much everyone knows that, and pretty much everyone has the experience of having relatives that they have nothing in common with, even if they're one of the rare few who has no scandalous history in their family. Even if they're childish and judgmental of your relatives, it's a whole other mental leap to think it reflects on you as a person. And if anyone is seriously stupid enough to think it is -- and I use the word "stupid" here purposefully, like it would reflect a genuine deficit of reasoning that would make me assume the person is stupid in other ways too -- that's not someone you want to hang around even casually. That's someone who can't handle life for what it is.
I've never met a single person who tried to make a big deal out of this stuff, but if I did, I would know they're the messed up one, not me. Trying to make people feel shame about their families is pretty last century at best.
posted by Nattie at 9:09 PM on June 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
About the only issue that's still a bit touchy is maybe incest or child abuse, but not in the sort of way you should be ashamed about even, it can just be difficult for some people to come up with things to say if you were directly involved in it. If it was someone else in the family, no one bats an eye when you bring these things up.
And for what's it worth, people even talk about that stuff sometimes. When I was on the phone with my mom today, she mentioned that when she was talking to five other girls from her office, it came up that all five of them had been sexually abused when they were younger. Most of them didn't get into detail but a few of them were even comfortable explaining by whom, and for how long, that sort of thing.
And the transgender thing, yeah, that's not even something to consider weird, so I'm not even gonna say more about that. So when I talk about "crazy" stuff as I move on, I'm just possibly referring to your odd-death situation and anything you might have forgot to mention -- I'm certainly not your transgender family member.
I mean, off the top of my head, without even digging too deep, here's some "scandalous" stuff from my family:
- Some long-dead member of my family, I wanna say a great-grandfather or maybe a great-uncle, molested a bunch of people in the family.
- One of my uncles was killed by his wife in a trailer fire, and she's recently out of jail.
- Another uncle died of AIDS in the 80s that he claimed to have gotten from a prostitute, but his siblings are pretty sure he gay and didn't want to admit it. (Not because they're prejudiced that AIDS=gay, but for other reasons as well.)
- My dad had drug problems before I was born.
- My dad beat my mom when I was young -- not sure what made him stop but he stopped.
- My dad tried to kill himself when I was a teenager.
- My dad was pretty much nuts in a few ways, and I mean that in the undiagnosed bipolar sense, not just that he was a jerk sometimes. Like psychotic, break-from-reality, hallucinating crazy sometimes -- and he had no access to illegal drugs then (he was confined to the apartment because of health problems the last several years of his life) so it wasn't that. We couldn't be sure if it was medication-induced or just more easily brought about by certain medications though.
- Tons of diagnosed bipolar relatives, most of whom have done some outrageous stuff when having the more psychotic fits of mania.
- Too many relatives to count that are on drugs or have gone to prison.
- My cousin brutally whipped a would-be mugger with a pair of jumper cables and then stole the mugger's wallet. He kept the cash and burnt the stolen credit cards.
- My mom actually believes those shapeshifter reptile-people conspiracy theories, and a whole lot weirder stuff.
- I have ADD, so do a ton of other people in my family.
- My aunt married a guy who used to be a swinger until fairly recently. My mom was all worked up about this at first just because he was marrying her sister and she's definitely not a swinger so she was concerned about infidelity or something, but he's the nicest guy in the world and now we all love him. (Not love him love him, heh.)
Both sides of my family have their share of wild people. Far from keeping it hidden, my mom wants to write a book about it. My cousin was raised by a drug-addicted neglectful mother and has a way of telling stories about her that's absolutely hilarious; since she's not ashamed of it and she had to just accept her mother is messed up she sees the humor in it. My favorite story she's told was when her mom was messed up off up something and fell asleep eating chocolate in bed; the chocolate melted and when she woke up she was ranting about how she had pooped the bed. My cousin, only in middle school at the time, had to convince her she hadn't.
If you can't tell, I'm not big on keeping this stuff secret either. I think the worst thing you can do is come across as if you think it's aberrant: if you seem sensitive about it, then it can make other people uncomfortable when reaching for a response; it can make you seem prissy, like you're inclined to judge other people for having imperfect family members too; it will make you seem naive, or like you think you're a special snowflake, to think that your family situation is unusual in some way.
One of the first things having unconventional family members should teach you is that not only is it entirely common for people to have some insane qualities, but also that someone can have those same qualities and still be a pretty good person overall. Aside from the dead people I never got to meet at the top of my list above, everyone else, even my dad, was/is a decent person in a lot of ways. For one thing, the knowledge that people can do bad things or have unfavorable qualities without it making them a monster too shameful to be discussed translates into my actually not being ashamed of being related to them. When people feel ashamed about mentioning the bad stuff about their family, it makes me wonder if they really do see it in a black and white way where they don't see people for the bigger picture of who they are. I'm not saying you actually do this -- I believe that you're genuinely just concerned about what others will think -- I'm just giving you reasons to not feel ashamed about it. You don't want to give people the impression that you have a childish perspective on good and bad, or that you entirely write people off for lame reasons.
And furthermore, perhaps most importantly, you aren't your relatives. Pretty much everyone knows that, and pretty much everyone has the experience of having relatives that they have nothing in common with, even if they're one of the rare few who has no scandalous history in their family. Even if they're childish and judgmental of your relatives, it's a whole other mental leap to think it reflects on you as a person. And if anyone is seriously stupid enough to think it is -- and I use the word "stupid" here purposefully, like it would reflect a genuine deficit of reasoning that would make me assume the person is stupid in other ways too -- that's not someone you want to hang around even casually. That's someone who can't handle life for what it is.
I've never met a single person who tried to make a big deal out of this stuff, but if I did, I would know they're the messed up one, not me. Trying to make people feel shame about their families is pretty last century at best.
posted by Nattie at 9:09 PM on June 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
* Er, not sure why I assumed it was an uncle that died, I meant that whichever family member of yours that died might qualify as a "crazy story."
posted by Nattie at 9:11 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Nattie at 9:11 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
First, your transgendered relative isn't a family secret -- just a family member. Don't be ashamed of it, and if/when you choose to share it, do so without shame and that will set the tone of your partner's acceptance (or really highlight their lack thereof.)
As for the other one, that's a story best kept quiet until/unless you think it's a cool story that you can trot out. Obviously I can't know if it falls into that category -- but if it's the opposite, if it's a shameful thing to your family, then don't mention it unless it's a familial discussion topic, and then let it come up amongst the family so you all share it with your partner at once.
In short, neither of these things are about you, so you don't need to really give them much if any thought when getting to know your partner.
posted by davejay at 10:24 PM on June 12, 2010
As for the other one, that's a story best kept quiet until/unless you think it's a cool story that you can trot out. Obviously I can't know if it falls into that category -- but if it's the opposite, if it's a shameful thing to your family, then don't mention it unless it's a familial discussion topic, and then let it come up amongst the family so you all share it with your partner at once.
In short, neither of these things are about you, so you don't need to really give them much if any thought when getting to know your partner.
posted by davejay at 10:24 PM on June 12, 2010
My partner grew up on a pot farm, on the weekends when he wasn't living with his alcoholic mom or his grandma. Who wasn't really his grandma, but the mother of the guy his mom had been dating when he was born -- the guy couldn't have kids anyways, but when they were "on a break" his mom hooked up with the guy's best friend and Bob's your uncle. He didn't find out his biological father's legal first name until he was 16 and saw it on a piece of mail; his mom took some Ambien and died when she accidentally fell asleep while eating.
(If I haven't already emphasized this repeatedly, he is the nicest, most loving, straightest arrow there is.)
So when my own (academic, non-drinking, proper) parents said, "Oh, and what do his parents do?" there was really no convenient place to start.
Obviously, you should feel out what feels appropriate from your family's point of view and how you choose to accept/express it for yourself (or not). If you're hitting it off, go ahead and discuss this stuff on the first date if you feel like it. It's not only an interesting source of conversation, but it could be a great indicator of how your possible partner both reacts to unexpected situations and reacts to information about people you care about.
And it's a nice way to indicate to the person you're chatting with that you trust them; they can have the chance to see how honest you are, and how you care for people in your family who may have had a very different life from your own. Because it's not a big secret about YOU, really.
Worked for me :)
posted by Madamina at 12:10 AM on June 13, 2010
(If I haven't already emphasized this repeatedly, he is the nicest, most loving, straightest arrow there is.)
So when my own (academic, non-drinking, proper) parents said, "Oh, and what do his parents do?" there was really no convenient place to start.
Obviously, you should feel out what feels appropriate from your family's point of view and how you choose to accept/express it for yourself (or not). If you're hitting it off, go ahead and discuss this stuff on the first date if you feel like it. It's not only an interesting source of conversation, but it could be a great indicator of how your possible partner both reacts to unexpected situations and reacts to information about people you care about.
And it's a nice way to indicate to the person you're chatting with that you trust them; they can have the chance to see how honest you are, and how you care for people in your family who may have had a very different life from your own. Because it's not a big secret about YOU, really.
Worked for me :)
posted by Madamina at 12:10 AM on June 13, 2010
Please listen to stoneweaver's advice when it comes to outing your trans relative. He or she is the only one who can answer your question, when is the right time to tell a SO about his or her past.
Be aware that the answer is quite possibly that you should never tell people you're seriously dating. This isn't a matter of shame or your SO's right to know; it's squarely about your relative's privacy.
posted by cotterpin at 12:58 AM on June 13, 2010
Be aware that the answer is quite possibly that you should never tell people you're seriously dating. This isn't a matter of shame or your SO's right to know; it's squarely about your relative's privacy.
posted by cotterpin at 12:58 AM on June 13, 2010
To answer your question, I think you only need to bring this stuff up when your partner is going to meet your family. This could be early in the relationship (like if you are going to a wedding) or later on. If you are in a comfortable relationship, it's fine to talk about it whenever the topics come up naturally. I wouldn't be mad if I was never told the things you listed, but the knowledge might prevent myself from getting into unnecessarily uncomfortable situations. This might not be PC, but I think mentioning that your cousin is transgender could be helpful, especially since they do not have a traditional binary orientation, and it could provide background, and prevent an awkwardly outing conversation a la "what do you mean Stephanie was a boyscout?". It's also helpful to know which family members cannot get along.
posted by fermezporte at 6:36 AM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fermezporte at 6:36 AM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't know if it helps you to keep hearing this, but these really are pretty tame as far as family secrets go.
posted by meta_eli at 9:43 AM on June 13, 2010
posted by meta_eli at 9:43 AM on June 13, 2010
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As far as lying about someone's death--you just tell them about it. Again, not that big a deal. Every family is weird in its own way. My family has it's big weird 'secrets' too -- I told Mr. Llama about them when it seemed natural. At some point, it'll seem natural. If you make a big deal out of it early on that will be weird.
Wait until it happens naturally. Nobody's going to be pissed you didn't tell them sooner. If you have any sexually transmitted diseases that's the sort of thing you need to divulge early.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:56 PM on June 12, 2010 [12 favorites]