Will New Cat ever let Old Cat sleep with us again (or play with him)?
June 8, 2010 9:47 AM Subscribe
We have had an awesome formerly feral FIV+ cat for 3 years. He is increasingly clearly lonely, and two weeks ago, we adopted a new cat. New cat is great, they've both settled in, but new cat seems to be bullying old cat. Is this permanent?
Long explanation follows. Synopsis: Our new cat of 2 weeks is bullying our old cat of 3 years. Is this permanent?
Long explanation:
Mr. Arnicae and I have had Old Cat for three years. He is a four year old, male, formerly feral cat. With some hiccups, he has adjusted into our house and has become incredibly dear to us. Which is why we, after long consideration, decided to adopt a second cat to keep him company. We opted to get another FIV+ cat, which meant getting an adult rather than a kitten, mostly because FIV+ cats have a difficult time finding homes. We got a male FIV+ cat of the same age.
Old Cat LOVES other cats. He is indoor only but whenever they wander by he is at the door/window, making happy little chirps and inviting them to play with him. Consequently, he was elated when we brought the cat carrier into our house. He frisked and whisked around our legs and made little chirps and happy excited "Hello!" meows.
We sequestered New Cat in a bedroom for three days, used extra Feliway, patted them both, gave them a few living space switches to smell each other, used towels rubbed with each of them for the other's cat food, and fed them on two sides of the same door. After 6 days, we started letting New Cat out for supervised visits. Both cats were very well behaved- there were no accidents or acting out. There was the expected hissing, but all from New Cat (however, New Cat was otherwise fine with everything else about the integration. The hissing was almost like a Head Sister berating a poorly behaving student). Old Cat was just EXCITED.
The hissing wound down and now the cats are allowed together 24/7. At first, Old Cat was out of his mind with delight. New Cat didn't want him to play with him, so Old Cat just followed New Cat around the house, staying 3' away (closer caused hissing and some batting).
A week later . . . Old Cat is somewhat resigned. He doesn't follow New Cat around the house anymore because New Cat still hisses at him (though NC treats the humans with extreme politeness). New Cat has also changed Old Cat's habits: New Cat has taken Old Cat's position on the bed. When we tried to move Old Cat to a new position on the bed (we have a ginormous bed, plenty of room for two furballs and two humans), New Cat hissed at him and swiped at him until he left and slept on the couch.
They generally exist in peace, but New Cat starts hissing and growling whenever Old Cat a) tries to sit or play with something New Cat has decided is his (which includes ALL FOUR of the scratching boxes in the apartment, our bed, both of the cat beds, both of the cat boxes) and b) whenever Old Cat tries to get closer to him than 3 feet. He will not play with Old Cat. When we try to play with both of them, New Cat will take over and not allow Old Cat to participate, or remonstrate with him if he does (hissing, growling, the occasional batting motion).
Old Cat appears sad and somewhat resigned. The excitement and anticipation is 100% gone, and he is now a little anxious whenever New Cat is in the area.
We like the New Cat, but we adore our Old Cat. He is the best cat in the world and we'd do anything to make him happy. Is this behavior New Cat's dominance asserting itself and will likely be the pattern for the rest of our lives together, or might it just be new home insecurity and might abate after a while? I miss snuggling with Old Cat at night.
Long explanation follows. Synopsis: Our new cat of 2 weeks is bullying our old cat of 3 years. Is this permanent?
Long explanation:
Mr. Arnicae and I have had Old Cat for three years. He is a four year old, male, formerly feral cat. With some hiccups, he has adjusted into our house and has become incredibly dear to us. Which is why we, after long consideration, decided to adopt a second cat to keep him company. We opted to get another FIV+ cat, which meant getting an adult rather than a kitten, mostly because FIV+ cats have a difficult time finding homes. We got a male FIV+ cat of the same age.
Old Cat LOVES other cats. He is indoor only but whenever they wander by he is at the door/window, making happy little chirps and inviting them to play with him. Consequently, he was elated when we brought the cat carrier into our house. He frisked and whisked around our legs and made little chirps and happy excited "Hello!" meows.
We sequestered New Cat in a bedroom for three days, used extra Feliway, patted them both, gave them a few living space switches to smell each other, used towels rubbed with each of them for the other's cat food, and fed them on two sides of the same door. After 6 days, we started letting New Cat out for supervised visits. Both cats were very well behaved- there were no accidents or acting out. There was the expected hissing, but all from New Cat (however, New Cat was otherwise fine with everything else about the integration. The hissing was almost like a Head Sister berating a poorly behaving student). Old Cat was just EXCITED.
The hissing wound down and now the cats are allowed together 24/7. At first, Old Cat was out of his mind with delight. New Cat didn't want him to play with him, so Old Cat just followed New Cat around the house, staying 3' away (closer caused hissing and some batting).
A week later . . . Old Cat is somewhat resigned. He doesn't follow New Cat around the house anymore because New Cat still hisses at him (though NC treats the humans with extreme politeness). New Cat has also changed Old Cat's habits: New Cat has taken Old Cat's position on the bed. When we tried to move Old Cat to a new position on the bed (we have a ginormous bed, plenty of room for two furballs and two humans), New Cat hissed at him and swiped at him until he left and slept on the couch.
They generally exist in peace, but New Cat starts hissing and growling whenever Old Cat a) tries to sit or play with something New Cat has decided is his (which includes ALL FOUR of the scratching boxes in the apartment, our bed, both of the cat beds, both of the cat boxes) and b) whenever Old Cat tries to get closer to him than 3 feet. He will not play with Old Cat. When we try to play with both of them, New Cat will take over and not allow Old Cat to participate, or remonstrate with him if he does (hissing, growling, the occasional batting motion).
Old Cat appears sad and somewhat resigned. The excitement and anticipation is 100% gone, and he is now a little anxious whenever New Cat is in the area.
We like the New Cat, but we adore our Old Cat. He is the best cat in the world and we'd do anything to make him happy. Is this behavior New Cat's dominance asserting itself and will likely be the pattern for the rest of our lives together, or might it just be new home insecurity and might abate after a while? I miss snuggling with Old Cat at night.
Give it some time. Two weeks is not a very long time to establish co-cat-dynamics. The bullying, I think, should taper down, as with the perceived dominance. New cat is in a brand new environment spending his time trying to figure out his boundaries and is still doing survival-mode stuff. Old cat is like
"Hey, you're new let's be --
"HISSSSS. GRROWWLLLL."
"-- Whoawhoawhoa, hey now! Is that how things are going to be?"
It'll take the new cat a few more weeks to actually feel settled in and totally safe in the new environment, and to really understand that old cat wants to be friends. Not sure what new cat will do with that info, though. The new cat's dominance may continue, but it's really hard to tell after just a couple of weeks. It'll be a while until new cat's "I'm in a safe happy place" personality will really manifest.
posted by jabberjaw at 10:15 AM on June 8, 2010
"Hey, you're new let's be --
"HISSSSS. GRROWWLLLL."
"-- Whoawhoawhoa, hey now! Is that how things are going to be?"
It'll take the new cat a few more weeks to actually feel settled in and totally safe in the new environment, and to really understand that old cat wants to be friends. Not sure what new cat will do with that info, though. The new cat's dominance may continue, but it's really hard to tell after just a couple of weeks. It'll be a while until new cat's "I'm in a safe happy place" personality will really manifest.
posted by jabberjaw at 10:15 AM on June 8, 2010
Can you lock NC out of the bedroom at night to give OC some calm alone time with you? I might try doing that with some other things you mention, like playing. Get them in separate rooms and play with OC alone. I'm not saying you need to live segregated kitty lives, because that would be kind of ridiculous. But just to ease the transition and make things easier for OC, some peaceful, NC-free time with you might be nice.
posted by Mavri at 10:16 AM on June 8, 2010
posted by Mavri at 10:16 AM on June 8, 2010
Are you using the plug-in (hence 24 hour) Feliway? My family had great, great success by doing that while integrating an old cat and a new cat. Our house is 1400 square feet and we got 2 Feliway dispensers. We used them each for about three months, so altogether I think it cost around $100. It was totally worth it. I literally thought, during the cats' first week together, that we were headed for an actual cat murder situation -- the old cat was in a constant state of hissing, spitting, stalking and seriously attacking the new cat. It did take time, but now the two of them are cuddled up, loving each other constantly.
posted by BlahLaLa at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2010
posted by BlahLaLa at 10:28 AM on June 8, 2010
I'd make sure that Old Cat had some domain that is JUST his, and where New Cat is not allowed. If you treat Old Cat like the Alpha Cat, New Cat will likely tone down his hissing and swiping. That means that if New Cat tries to chase Old Cat off the bed, you need to step in and elevate Old Cat to the bed and put New Cat out of the room. If he tries to get back on the bed, with Old Cat already there, that puts him in the less optimum position and makes it more likely he will grumblingly accept Old Cat.
By the way, Old Cat sounds incredibly sweet and loveable. And New Cat will be, too, once he gets his bearings. Pics, please!
posted by misha at 10:48 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
By the way, Old Cat sounds incredibly sweet and loveable. And New Cat will be, too, once he gets his bearings. Pics, please!
posted by misha at 10:48 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
It takes a long time for cats to get used to each other. Our old cat is finally, after about 6 months, starting to play with the new cat and stopped sulking.
We got new cat, old cat was miserable and there was a ton of hissing. New cat took old cat's spot on the bed and old cat moved to a chair with a blanket on it or the cupboard. Old cat started pulling her hair out so her underside and back legs were almost naked (eep!) and was on medication for a while. We got a huge cat tree for old cat, but new cat uses it. Old cat uses to sit on my lap at my computer, she stopped for months.
Jump forward 6 months.... New cat and old cat now sleeping on opposite sides of the bed. Old cat is hairy again (yay!). Old cat and new cat takes turns on the cat tree. Old cat sits on my lap again. They play chasing games where old cat now also chases new cat.
You just need to be patient and maybe make sure there are multiple places for both to sleep and eat and litterboxes in two different places - old cats get very upset if new cats monopolize the important places or corner them.
posted by meepmeow at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2010
We got new cat, old cat was miserable and there was a ton of hissing. New cat took old cat's spot on the bed and old cat moved to a chair with a blanket on it or the cupboard. Old cat started pulling her hair out so her underside and back legs were almost naked (eep!) and was on medication for a while. We got a huge cat tree for old cat, but new cat uses it. Old cat uses to sit on my lap at my computer, she stopped for months.
Jump forward 6 months.... New cat and old cat now sleeping on opposite sides of the bed. Old cat is hairy again (yay!). Old cat and new cat takes turns on the cat tree. Old cat sits on my lap again. They play chasing games where old cat now also chases new cat.
You just need to be patient and maybe make sure there are multiple places for both to sleep and eat and litterboxes in two different places - old cats get very upset if new cats monopolize the important places or corner them.
posted by meepmeow at 11:32 AM on June 8, 2010
You need to let them work it out. And they will, but it's going to take some time.
Meantime, go overboard in showing Old Cat that he's still A-number-1. Give him his own time with you. If you can sequester him for 15 minutes a night and lavish attention on him, that will help.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:40 AM on June 8, 2010
Meantime, go overboard in showing Old Cat that he's still A-number-1. Give him his own time with you. If you can sequester him for 15 minutes a night and lavish attention on him, that will help.
posted by mudpuppie at 11:40 AM on June 8, 2010
We have a similar setup (sweet but neurotic NC muscles in on any attention given to OC) and I'd say you should definitely create some dedicated space and time for OC.
There's no guarantee that they'll end up happy friendly snuggly cats with each other, no matter how much Feliway you throw at them, so be prepared for mutual tolerance.
posted by holgate at 11:40 AM on June 8, 2010
There's no guarantee that they'll end up happy friendly snuggly cats with each other, no matter how much Feliway you throw at them, so be prepared for mutual tolerance.
posted by holgate at 11:40 AM on June 8, 2010
Opinion: NC should be an only cat. Some cats just don't like other cats - even if they're perfectly nice and wonderful otherwise. This is abusive to OC. I'd be preparing to return or rehome NC.
You're welcome to keep trying, of course, but you know, I think OC would have really loved a puppy. Or a cat that actually likes other cats. Super-friendly cats are special.
posted by coffeefilter at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2010
You're welcome to keep trying, of course, but you know, I think OC would have really loved a puppy. Or a cat that actually likes other cats. Super-friendly cats are special.
posted by coffeefilter at 11:47 AM on June 8, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for all the insights. We have a 1000 sq ft apartment and two Feliway plug-in diffusers going non-stop.
Thanks everyone.
Oh! And pics.
OC and here.
NC and here and here
posted by arnicae at 12:27 PM on June 8, 2010
Thanks everyone.
Oh! And pics.
OC and here.
NC and here and here
posted by arnicae at 12:27 PM on June 8, 2010
Yeah, NC is still getting its bearings. They're unlikely to ever be snuggle-buddies, but NC should settle down and OC will adapt. Six months to a year out, and they'll probably be comfortable enough to share the bed on occasion (most likely when one of you is in it as well.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:50 PM on June 8, 2010
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:50 PM on June 8, 2010
Slightly off-topic with regards to answering the question, but the pictures you linked don't work!
posted by andrewcilento at 4:55 PM on June 8, 2010
posted by andrewcilento at 4:55 PM on June 8, 2010
When I adopted a NC, my OC wasn't thrilled with the situation. NC is a young, rambunctious, obnoxious fellow and OC liked to have things her way. It's taken them a good year to get to the point where each (NC, actually) understands his place in the world. NC sleeps at the foot of the bed; OC at the head, by my pillow; NC yields to OC whenever she decides she wants to be where he is/have what he has.
Things weren't going this way at the beginning. After OC's initial "I hate NC!" phase, there was a period where it looked like NC might take over as Top Cat. To reverse that (and on the vet's advice), I used a spray bottle to remind NC that he wasn't Top Cat. If NC started bullying OC, I sprayed him. It took a few months, but he got the message and now plays nicely with OC. (Well... 'play nicely' has a different context for my household: OC is a thin, lightweight 14yo and ailing; NC is a heavy, big-boned 2yo and tends to play rough.)
NC has been with us for about a year and a half. He and OC still don't curl up together or groom each other but they will share my lap, my bed, and my attention. Every once in a while, OC will make a friendly overture towards NC but NC doesn't seem to know what to make of it.
Roughly six months ago, I took on a foster cat (The Blob). The Blob wouldn't let anyone near him for a good month but now he and NC play every day. The two are rather evenly matched: The Blob is so named b'c he was grossly obese when he came to me. The foster cat has his own room where he stays while I'm out of the house; NC sits in front of the door when I get home to remind me to let The Blob out. If I fail to do so, NC mopes around, casting furtive glances at The Blob's bedroom door until I relent.
Anyway, this was just my two cents that NC and OC will settle in, eventually. Although, it might help if you favor OC for a while and teach NC that OC is important to you/is the Top Cat in the house.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 7:17 PM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Things weren't going this way at the beginning. After OC's initial "I hate NC!" phase, there was a period where it looked like NC might take over as Top Cat. To reverse that (and on the vet's advice), I used a spray bottle to remind NC that he wasn't Top Cat. If NC started bullying OC, I sprayed him. It took a few months, but he got the message and now plays nicely with OC. (Well... 'play nicely' has a different context for my household: OC is a thin, lightweight 14yo and ailing; NC is a heavy, big-boned 2yo and tends to play rough.)
NC has been with us for about a year and a half. He and OC still don't curl up together or groom each other but they will share my lap, my bed, and my attention. Every once in a while, OC will make a friendly overture towards NC but NC doesn't seem to know what to make of it.
Roughly six months ago, I took on a foster cat (The Blob). The Blob wouldn't let anyone near him for a good month but now he and NC play every day. The two are rather evenly matched: The Blob is so named b'c he was grossly obese when he came to me. The foster cat has his own room where he stays while I'm out of the house; NC sits in front of the door when I get home to remind me to let The Blob out. If I fail to do so, NC mopes around, casting furtive glances at The Blob's bedroom door until I relent.
Anyway, this was just my two cents that NC and OC will settle in, eventually. Although, it might help if you favor OC for a while and teach NC that OC is important to you/is the Top Cat in the house.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 7:17 PM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Further Opinion/Rant:
This is so sad, I am moved to write more.
I could be wrong, but I doubt the situation is going to improve much. I've seen the pattern before. Friendly sociable cat + adult cat-hating cat = doesn't work.
(E.g., an old girlfriend had a superfriendly cat that had to share space, for several months, with a cat-hating cat. Several times a day, at least, friendly cat would go over to cat-hating cat to say hello; invariably, the reply was SLASH. As time went on, the stress caused friendly cat to get gray hairs around his muzzle, and feline acne (!). Both of these cleared up after cat-hating cat departed.)
This is an arranged marriage; this is a bad blind date that never ends. Both cats have needs, and neither one is really happy or fulfilled with the arrangement. Forcing them to live together is a Great Wrongness.
You did your best and followed all the best practices for introducing cats, but if it doesn't work, you have to separate them.
OC is a once-in-lifetime cat. Get him a real friend, rather than a bully that keeps him away from everything that he loves.
---
Not to be down on NC - our last cat was a fantastic cat, but hated other cats. NC likewise would be happier if he didn't have to constantly chase away an enemy interloper cat.
---
Please, for the love of cats, if they don't become best buddies, find a new home for NC. They'll both be happier.
posted by coffeefilter at 10:39 PM on June 9, 2010
This is so sad, I am moved to write more.
I could be wrong, but I doubt the situation is going to improve much. I've seen the pattern before. Friendly sociable cat + adult cat-hating cat = doesn't work.
(E.g., an old girlfriend had a superfriendly cat that had to share space, for several months, with a cat-hating cat. Several times a day, at least, friendly cat would go over to cat-hating cat to say hello; invariably, the reply was SLASH. As time went on, the stress caused friendly cat to get gray hairs around his muzzle, and feline acne (!). Both of these cleared up after cat-hating cat departed.)
This is an arranged marriage; this is a bad blind date that never ends. Both cats have needs, and neither one is really happy or fulfilled with the arrangement. Forcing them to live together is a Great Wrongness.
You did your best and followed all the best practices for introducing cats, but if it doesn't work, you have to separate them.
OC is a once-in-lifetime cat. Get him a real friend, rather than a bully that keeps him away from everything that he loves.
---
Not to be down on NC - our last cat was a fantastic cat, but hated other cats. NC likewise would be happier if he didn't have to constantly chase away an enemy interloper cat.
---
Please, for the love of cats, if they don't become best buddies, find a new home for NC. They'll both be happier.
posted by coffeefilter at 10:39 PM on June 9, 2010
They'll figure out a pattern that works for them. Eventually the pattern will change.
Our OC was a timid thing when she was the youngling. When she got older she became the Law Of The Land. She ruled over MC (middle cat) and SD (stupid dog.)
Then we got NC. At first NC terrified OC, because she was twice her size (that didn't affect MC, partly because she's long for her weight and kitty-boxes well, and partly because she's just not that bright and cheerfully ignores warnings.) However, OC defended her domain of last retreat (the bedroom) and NC to this day respects that. It took a year, but OC has become increasingly assertive in reclaiming her rights to the rest of the house, although she likewise avoids NC's domain of last retreat (two rooms over.)
MC merrily roams the entire house, oblivious to the drama.
SD does as well, but is occasionally flumoxed by a cat who has grabbed the optimal "top of the stairs" spot. She can get by MC without problem, and usually OC, but NC is... problematic.
tl;dr conflict will eventually be resolved, and resolved again. The soap opera keeps them engaged. Also, it's entertaining for the bipeds.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:55 AM on June 10, 2010
Our OC was a timid thing when she was the youngling. When she got older she became the Law Of The Land. She ruled over MC (middle cat) and SD (stupid dog.)
Then we got NC. At first NC terrified OC, because she was twice her size (that didn't affect MC, partly because she's long for her weight and kitty-boxes well, and partly because she's just not that bright and cheerfully ignores warnings.) However, OC defended her domain of last retreat (the bedroom) and NC to this day respects that. It took a year, but OC has become increasingly assertive in reclaiming her rights to the rest of the house, although she likewise avoids NC's domain of last retreat (two rooms over.)
MC merrily roams the entire house, oblivious to the drama.
SD does as well, but is occasionally flumoxed by a cat who has grabbed the optimal "top of the stairs" spot. She can get by MC without problem, and usually OC, but NC is... problematic.
tl;dr conflict will eventually be resolved, and resolved again. The soap opera keeps them engaged. Also, it's entertaining for the bipeds.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:55 AM on June 10, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
With the mid-cat bullying the big cat, we humans have to get involved sometimes. This may need to happen in your cat society, too. Show Old Cat that he is still the same Old Cat. Don't let New Cat just bowl him over with everything. When New Cat does the hissing, ignore the cat, and focus on Old Cat. You may still have episodes, but they will lessen over time.
posted by kellyblah at 10:03 AM on June 8, 2010