What the hell is in red meat that my body needs to balance itself?

June 7, 2010 10:37 PM

What the hell is in red meat that my body needs to balance itself?

Long story short:

About once every few weeks, I get a slight headache and feel super tired. About an hour after eating red meat, it all disappears.

Mind you, I'm taking regular iron supplements, B vitamins, AND getting sufficient protein. Fish, pork, chicken, tofu, beans, dairy, nothing else seems to do the job.

I haven't had a blood test in years, so I'm not sure about that side of things, but I'm just curious if anyone might venture some guesses that I could do some more research with (until I can afford health care, and blood tests, etc.).

I'm not super pro or against meat, but I'd like to have some other options as well.

posted by yeloson to Health & Fitness (36 answers total)

Not at all disparaging you or anything, but have you considered it might be psychosomatic or a steaky placebo? (the relief of symptoms, not implying that the headache itself is fantastic).
posted by smoke at 11:02 PM on June 7, 2010

Salt.
posted by fshgrl at 11:07 PM on June 7, 2010

Possibly iron. Iron in supplements is not absorbed as readily as iron in food.
posted by kindall at 11:16 PM on June 7, 2010

Fatty meat! You're wired to love it. Other ways to scratch that itch: duck, heritage pork (the dark meat kind, not the "other white meat"), tuna, chilean sea bass, lamb chops...

Off topic but I cannot believe that I all I had for dinner was cold cereal.
posted by MattD at 11:22 PM on June 7, 2010

Seconding iron. Whenever I've been anemic, my docs have encouraged me to eat iron-rich foods (beef, eggs, scallops, spinach, etc.) in favor of iron supplements (supposedly easier to absorb, plus iron supplements can cause digestive upset).
posted by scody at 11:22 PM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: have you considered it might be psychosomatic or a steaky placebo?

I'm generally more of a fan of chicken, which I would eat all the time if I could. Steak is just alright to me and the only time I find myself eating it is when this situation kicks in.
posted by yeloson at 11:22 PM on June 7, 2010

And by tuna I mean tuna steak -- red, expensive, delicious ... not chunk white tuna in a can.
posted by MattD at 11:23 PM on June 7, 2010

This happens to me sometimes too. I don't take supplements like you do though. A few years ago the doctor said I was borderline anemic, so I always try to eat lots of cruciferous vegetables and drink milk. Apparently, calcium can help you absorb iron. When this craving for steak happens, if I don't want to indulge it, sometimes filling up on roasted red beets can work just as well. They're wonderful for you regardless.

Just preheat the oven to 400F, wash and wrap a beet in foil, place in a tray (glass is best so it doesn't get stains, but if you're like me you have a dedicated, permanently stained beet pan) and roast until you can stick a butter knife with little resistance into the beet's center. Stick them, tray and all, in the fridge and peel them the next day. Slice and devour, or reheat with some butter, salt, maybe some fennel, red wine vinegar. They are sweet and simple and make me feel nutrient-enriched!
posted by Mizu at 11:32 PM on June 7, 2010 [7 favorites]

Related item: I have a friend who has a medical condition in which his body does not excrete iron rapidly enough (or otherwise is too sensitive to normal iron levels, not sure). Evidently, just having red meat on a semi-regular basis is enough to give him too much iron in his system. To compensate, he actually has to go give blood at regular intervals to get rid of the excess iron.

Anyway, IANAD, but as others have mentioned above, it sounds like iron deficiency anemia might conceivably explain your steaky cravings. It might be worthwhile to get a blood test - that'd show up quickly whether you had anemia.

Also, anemia can be a symptom, itself, of other, more serious issues, so it's worthwhile to get that checked out anyway. If you have an annual physical, usually a simple blood test will check for this. (Again, IANAD/IANYD.)
posted by darkstar at 11:39 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]

Anemia/placebo is more likely, but beef is actually good source of several micronutrients that, depending on your diet, can be hard to come by. Zinc, chromium, vitamin D, and selenium might be in your vitamins but absorption by into your body might be negligible. If your ancestry is European-Caucasian-w/e you come from people who survived on beef/milk and wheat for millennia so it might be a necessity in your genes. In any case if you're getting regular exercise steak can be very good for you.
posted by Locobot at 12:03 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

If the concern is anemia, you could always consider cooking in cast iron - the iron comes out into the food, easy as pie to get more iron.

I wouldn't rule the dislike of steak as neutralising placebo; it's not important whether you like it, it's whether you think it works.
posted by smoke at 12:03 AM on June 8, 2010

I thought calcium interfered with iron absorption and so needed to be taken apart. Vitamin C is supposed to aid in iron absorption.
posted by Feisty at 12:12 AM on June 8, 2010 [4 favorites]

the insanely popular and never boring renal and urology news says: Low Vitamin D, Anemia Linked.

i think they're gonna find that milk from cows which never see sunlight doesn't actually contain all that much vitamin d and maybe that's why so many are deficient.
posted by kimyo at 12:15 AM on June 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

Lentils have a good amount of iron. I've been having lots of beans and pulses in place of meat for over a year now (none of that vegetarian pseudo-meat crap) and when I went to give blood the other day, the nurse told me that my iron levels were excellent. You might also try eating Marmite on your bread in the mornings. It has huge amounts of vitamin B.
posted by jpcooper at 12:25 AM on June 8, 2010

Best answer: Apparently, calcium can help you absorb iron.

Um. Calcium directly interferes with iron absorption. That was even one of my findings in my MSc thesis focussed entirely on intestinal absorption of iron, it's pretty well established. (and yeah, vitamin C really helps increase iron absorption)

Heme iron, like that found in meat, is more easily absorbed than any other kind of iron. But there's no way you'd go from a headache to feeling better because of iron deficiency within an hour of eating meat, particularly if the rest of your diet is OK. Steak does have lots of other minerals and nutrients but again, deficiencies don't usually manifest in such a short term way. Salt makes more sense actually, changes in blood pressure or hydration can happen quickly and you'd feel better fast if that was the problem, or maybe the headache is just from being hungry in general and eating anything else would fix it? Could just be that you need a protein fix, try drinking milk instead.

Also just because you don't love meat doesn't mean this can't be psychosomatic. Psychosomatic in this case just means your brain has built a connection not that you're secretly craving something. If you're not able to get blood tests (which is probably the best way to figure this out if the headaches are often) then try eating other things instead of red meat and see what else helps.

Related item: I have a friend who has a medical condition in which his body does not excrete iron rapidly enough (or otherwise is too sensitive to normal iron levels, not sure).

This is haemochromatosis. It's caused by a genetic mutation which you either have or don't have, it's not something that happens over time or that a person without the mutation needs to worry about in any way.
posted by shelleycat at 12:28 AM on June 8, 2010 [16 favorites]

I was told by my old cycling team coach that you can get at least as much iron from cooking with cast iron as you can from supplements. So go get yourself some cast iron cookware and use it regularly; it might help.
posted by kaibutsu at 1:21 AM on June 8, 2010

Citric acid / vitamin C actually helps you absorb iron (or calcium); I like roasted beets with slices of orange, or dark leafy greens, like kale, with lemon juice.
posted by amtho at 1:36 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

I agree: IRON. BUT! You should know that you can overdose on iron, if you choose to take supplements. It's not excreted or secreted, so it builds up into some pretty nasty side effects. Getting iron from your food is best.

Sidebar: I read a recent study (that I can't site right now) proving spinach has no more iron than many other leafy greens. Just FYI, in case you hate spinach.
posted by kidelo at 3:16 AM on June 8, 2010

i think they're gonna find that milk from cows which never see sunlight doesn't actually contain all that much vitamin d and maybe that's why so many are deficient.

Milk doesn't really have much vitamin D to begin with. We have that association because it's fortified.

Also, while spinach has a lot of iron, you have to cook it to make the iron available to your body. The iron in raw spinach goes right through you.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 4:57 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

My guess is that it's because that's what we ate for most of our evolution as humans. It would be surprising if you didn't crave it. It's more surprising to me that we crave sugar and bread.
posted by sully75 at 6:29 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

I agree on the cast iron cooking ... cleared my anemia up lickety-split. But also make sure you're getting enough C, as someone said above, to aid in iron absorption.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:45 AM on June 8, 2010

kidelo, female people do essentially excrete iron (well blood in general) when menstruating. So worries about overdosing depend on whether someone does that regularly.

By the way, while I don't really suggest randomly diagnosing yourself, if you are uninsured and need bloodwork, you can get it somewhat less expensively if you order it via http://www.saveonlabs.com/ ; they're partnered with labs like LabCorp.
posted by needs more cowbell at 6:53 AM on June 8, 2010

Make sure your B-complex has enough Vitamin B₁₂ — "Common early symptoms are tiredness, a decreased mental work capacity, weakened concentration and memory, and irritability and depression." That sounds within shouting distance of your symptoms.

Vitamin K and choline are rather less likely.

Maybe you could experiment within the red meats and figure out which of the bunch help out the most. That alone might point at what you're missing.
posted by adipocere at 6:59 AM on June 8, 2010

IANAD, but I say placebo. An *hour* after eating steak you feel better? How long does it take your body to get the useful stuff from meat distributed to other places in your body?
posted by pjaust at 7:09 AM on June 8, 2010

I suspect you might be looking at it the wrong way. It's not necessarily that meat has something otherwise lacking in your diet -- it just makes you feel better when X happens. X could be low blood sugar, for example.

Another hypothesis is that you aren't getting enough dietary fat. Your body can't just manufacture it. Carbs are optional. Fat is necessary.

I also think that if you're trying to get certain nutrients from supplements instead of from food, you're doing it wrong.
posted by callmejay at 7:16 AM on June 8, 2010

Best answer: I second fshgirl on considering salt. I don't know how long it takes micronutrients to be absorbed, but I suspect it's longer than electrolytes.
posted by westerly at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thanks folks. I'll check on salt first, since it make sense that it would be the quickest to absorb and I do so little of it, until I can get some bloodwork done.
posted by yeloson at 7:28 AM on June 8, 2010

Just off the top of my head aside from other things people are saying (IRON!) that it could be some specific variety of amino acids that beef is able to provide for you that other things aren't able to provide as much of. I don't really like red meat that much but every 6 or 8 weeks I get an insane craving for it that is either filled with a massive burger or steak. So I get where you're coming from.
posted by msbutah at 8:14 AM on June 8, 2010

About an hour after eating red meat, it all disappears.

So it's clearly NOT iron. It would take weeks of maximum-absorbable iron supplementation to produce any measurable or symptomatic change. Protein, fat, salt, or maybe just simple calories is what's producing the effect in you.
posted by neuron at 8:41 AM on June 8, 2010

To me these symptoms - headache, fatigue, mental lethargy - sound like dehydration, which is related to lack of salt/electrolytes. The quick recovery supports that too.
posted by Some1 at 8:45 AM on June 8, 2010

Also, while spinach has a lot of iron, you have to cook it to make the iron available to your body. The iron in raw spinach goes right through you.

Not really. Cooked spinach has more iron than raw, but both have oxalic acid (and calcium) which inhibits your bodies ability to absorb the iron, as others have pointed out eating foods high in Vitamin C will help you body absorb what's available.
posted by squeak at 1:13 PM on June 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Creatine.
posted by WeekendJen at 1:20 PM on June 8, 2010

BUT! You should know that you can overdose on iron, if you choose to take supplements. It's not excreted or secreted, so it builds up into some pretty nasty side effects.

This is wrong. Iron isn't secreted but the rest doesn't follow, you don't overdose on iron by adding too much to your diet, you're missing several steps in between.

Iron absorption from the intestine is very tightly regulated as is the iron concentration within your body. There are all kinds of mechanisms to ensure iron levels are appropriate, including binding of iron into storage proteins to sequester it from the body and removal of extra iron by sloughing of intestinal epithelial cells. The main issue with taking too much iron - which are the same regardless of if it's from supplements or food - is a very slight increase in susceptibility to colon cancer because the excess iron moves down to your colon where it has free radical activity and possibly changes the bacterial flora. Some people also get constipation for similar reasons. Which on it's totally negates your supplement overdose argument because it happens due to the unneeded iron not being taken into the body in the first place.

Iron overdose is only a problem if you have the genetic mutation for haemochromatosis. Unless I guess you were getting inappropriate iron injections, which is a long way from worrying about iron supplements.

Every time iron comes up in an askme so much false information appears. Which confuses me, iron bioavailability is pretty well understood by now. I assume it comes from the supplement industry giving false information to sell more expensive pills, or possibly just people learning half the story and jumping to conclusions like this particular claim.

As for the headache thing, the reason why it's not going to get better in an hour is that anaemia symptoms aren't caused directly by the lack of iron but due to lack of functioning haemoglobin in red blood cells. So putting iron into the blood stream alone, which probably would happen within an hour, isn't enough. Instead it needs to be transported to the spleen and bone marrow and incorporated into new, healthy red blood cells. Then they go out into the blood stream and start doing a better job of carrying oxygen around so you feel better. I get mildly iron deficient on occasion and generally it takes two or three days of taking supplements to feel better again, it's not acute like the problem the OP is describing. I don't know exactly if other minerals would be the same. It is possible that having it just be absorbed not the blood and move to a target tissue would have a direct effect and that does happen within hours. I just can't think of anything besides salt that would manifest as an acute headache with no other symptoms and be fixed that easily (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I know more about iron than other micronutrients).
posted by shelleycat at 2:25 PM on June 8, 2010 [3 favorites]

Related, @shelleycat and darkstar: I just found out I have haemochromatosis. Shelleycat, you can have iron overdose without the HFE gene mutation - I tested negative, and none of my immediate family have had problems with iron levels. We don't know what's causing it my case, but I need to monitor my iron levels, etc, for the next little while and see if it will come down on its own. If not, I'll have to go in for phlebotomies to start off with, then blood donations (which I do anyway, when I remember). I've never taken iron supplements in any form, and eat a reasonably healthy diet.
posted by minus zero at 8:06 PM on June 8, 2010

OK but you still have haemochromatosis, a rare disease and still likely to have a genetic cause (just one which isn't yet known). People without haemochromatosis, which is the vast vast majority of us, do not get iron overload in the way described above.
posted by shelleycat at 12:28 AM on June 9, 2010

Response by poster: Thanks for the info everyone. Until I get some blood tests, I'm slowly working through the possibilities of what it could be.
posted by yeloson at 12:27 PM on July 8, 2010